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Anarchism is a social movement that seeks to abolish oppressive systems. Anarchists advocate a self-managed, classless, stateless society where everyone takes collective responsibility for the health and prosperity of their community.
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The Greatest Thread [x-post from /r/funny] (i.imgur.com)
submitted 2 days ago by haydensane
[–]hierarchyhitmann 16 points17 points18 points 2 days ago
So far, the comments in this thread are pretty insightful and educational, but to call this "The Greatest Thread"?
You might be selling yourself a bit short there.
[–]b1azeichi 15 points16 points17 points 2 days ago
He meant the "Greatest Threat." It is a typo, I believe.
[–]InjectThePoison 8 points9 points10 points 2 days ago
He was joking. I believe they call it sarcasm.
[–]b1azeichi 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago
Sarcasm, eh. I'll try baking that later on. Know of any good sarcasm recipes?
[–]InjectThePoison 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
The trick is to add some humor with just a tad bit of condescendence.
[–]b1azeichi 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Ah, okay. I'll be sure to add that to my recipe.
[–]haydensane[S] 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago
It was indeed a typo.
[–]b1azeichi 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago
See, I CAN read the OP's mind!
[–]Levy_Wilson 9 points10 points11 points 2 days ago
So I'm assuming he knows how to make his own charcoal for that grill? I don't see much in the way of woods in the picture.
[–]Americium 13 points14 points15 points 2 days ago
Pshh. Stop asking questions.
/s
[–]GrymFandango 9 points10 points11 points 2 days ago
If he doesn't know, maybe his neighbour knows. This is not an issue. The issue is getting people to help each other for the good of the community and not just to get theirs.
[–]Greyletter 6 points7 points8 points 2 days ago
He also has an ore mine to make his metal tools.
[–]dumnezero 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago
You need a forge to do that, not a mine.
[–]Greyletter 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago
You need a mine to get the material. But yes, you also need a forge.
[–]Cariocecus 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Solar grill?
[–]edselford 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Peat FTW
[–]ChuckFinale 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago
This sounds more like Jeffersonian Settlerism than socialism.
[–]jackolas 12 points13 points14 points 2 days ago
Fuck anti-consumerism. It's a terrible critique and alienates people for little cause. Capitalism isn't going down because you didn't buy goods from xyz corp. It's the same logic as buying ethical fair trade crap, just slightly more coherent.
It is impossible to act ethically inside capitalism that's why we oppose it.
[–]CunningAllusionment 20 points21 points22 points 2 days ago
Divesting from targeted supply chains and keeping capital local won't "crash the system" but it can improve conditions and communities to the point that anarchist relationships become more feasible.
[–]bl4ckb4dg3r5 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
Yes, a mass movement or large institutions divesting could make a change but consumerism is all about the individual.
[–]LassieMcIntosh 35 points36 points37 points 2 days ago
I think anticomsumerism has its place as one tool among many others. What's most important is that we aren't fooled into believing we're just consumers, and that the only thing we can do to help is to just consume differently.
[–]jackolas 9 points10 points11 points 2 days ago
it's just super-privileged and something that we have to question critically constantly.
[–]LassieMcIntosh 6 points7 points8 points 2 days ago
Yeah, it is super privileged. But when we can use our privilege for good, I think we're obligated to. I think.
[–]jackolas 6 points7 points8 points 2 days ago
Absolutely. I just don't think that "fair trade" is the good we want.
Supporting coops? Fuck yes.
[–]pizzabox 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago
Fuck yes coops!!
[–]CultureofInsanity 0 points1 point2 points 10 hours ago
Fair trade isn't anti-consumerism. Burning down a billboard is anti-consumerism.
[–]jackolas 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago
It's the same strain of thought. Removing a billboard doesn't belittle and insult people for using the benefits of their productive capacity. It's complaining if only people stopped buying things or some crap. It's all based in a deluded fallacy that consumer choice is politically relevant.
[–]NelsonBig 12 points13 points14 points 2 days ago
In an anarchistic society, everything should be questioned. To simply say "Fuck" this or that is very dismissive and counterproductive.
Rather, we should all have informed discussions on the possible benefits and/or drawbacks of any and all theories.
[–]kingr8 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago
In any society, for that matter.
[–]Turtley 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago
Yeah, it is super-privileged. Do you refuse to utilize that privilege to try and do some good?
[–]ChickenOfDoom 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago
What about simply avoiding spending in general? Reduced consumer spending has caused a lot of problems for the status quo in recent years.
Here's how I see it: you're right about it being impossible to act ethically within capitalism, because by spending money you are exerting coercive force on others. But the less we collectively spend, the weaker the power of that force; the man-hours commanded by capitalistic forces decrease. If you have no choice but to cause harm, it's better to cause less if you can.
[–]haydensane[S] 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago
The realization that you don't need to be a rabid consumer is the first step to the elimination of capitalism. No one is saying it's enough in itself, but without it, nothing further can come.
[–]GrymFandango 11 points12 points13 points 2 days ago
Did you just say "fuck anti-consumerism... that's why we oppose capitalism" in the same post?
Ok I see that you're trying to make a point about extremes, I think, but consumerism is the foundation of capitalism. So unless you're an anarcho-capitalist, you would probably not be down with the type of consumerism going on in society today.
I'm sure we're on the same level here, you just have a very funny way of saying it.
You're right about constantly having to question everything critically though. Maybe that's where you're coming from on this comment. I totally agree with that, no question. ;)
[–]jackolas 11 points12 points13 points 2 days ago
consumerism is the foundation of capitalism
Not really, capital accumulation is. Consumerism is a byproduct of today's capitalism. It may drive some capitalist company's profits... but it is not to be confused with capitalism. This is a serious problem when talking to people. Because they interact with our "free market" in a totally non-market way that isn't that dependent on the economic system as much as privilege and wealth.
[–]jf_ftw 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
ehhh, there many people and smaller companies that act ethically in capitalism. So I disagree on that point. Capitalism just gives greedy people the best avenue to exploit others. It really doesn't help when the state makes it illegal for corporations to act ethically, as They are required by American law to maximize profit for the shareholders. That's really how we've fucked up the world in the last hundred years.
[–]ItAteEverybody 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Comparatively ethically
Which is admirable in its own way, but it's still kind of like being the person who clubs the least amount of seals on the Arctic expedition. Sure, you're more ethical that the person who insisted on wrapping his club in razor wire, but there's still something left to be desired.
[–]LassieMcIntosh 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Can you give an example?
[–]jf_ftw -1 points0 points1 point 2 days ago
Are you serious? Yea all those mom and pop restaurants and b&b's are really acting unethically. Do you live in a capitalist country? If so, do you live ethically?
[–]LassieMcIntosh 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago
No need for ad hominems here.
But I think it's reasonable to say that a restaurant will not survive unless it (a) pays the farmer less than what his/her food is worth and/or (b) charges the customer more than what the food is worth. It also must pay its workers less than what the work is actually worth, of course, because otherwise the restaurant owners wouldn't be turning a profit. And I don't think it's a stretch to say that these practices are unethical. I don't blame the "mom and pop restaurants;" I blame capitalism. But ethics is ethics, and I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
[–]jf_ftw 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
That's not an ad hominem.
I guess I just wanted if you really think if everyone is unethical. Sad worldview.
Capitalism is unethical. Given the amount of propaganda, counter-revolutionary activity, economic hardship, and sheer inertia people have to overcome in order not to participate in it, I'm not sure I could say that people who participate in capitalism are themselves unethical. But capitalism forces people to do unethical things.
[–]TheSelfGoverned 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
The money trail:
You ---> xyz corporation ---> Rich shareholders, which had ZERO part in producing and supplying the product or service.
[–]LassieMcIntosh 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Oh, yes. I meant to ask for an example of a company that acts ethically within the confines of capitalism.
[–]jackolas 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
I guess really what I mean is that the only ethical choice is to fight the system in differing ways. I'm probably framing this poorly. You can just ignore the second half, I'm trying to borrow from the soul of a man under socialism one of my favorite texts.
[–]weltpolitik 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
Being anti-consumerist doesn't necessarily imply one is anti-consumer. We are all compromised.
[–]manwithnostomach 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago
the only kind of 'contentment' western society values is the contentment with being unhealthy, insecure, undesiring of professional mobility or real self improvement which comes internally. Rather they want you over-worked, depressed, sheepish, feeling like shit about yourself, unhealthy, so they can continue to cure all your ills, entertain you and "connect" you with your fellow man, help you "get the girl", and be cool. They want to give you something tasty, then help you lose weight.
They don't want any kind of communal connections formed organically, they don't want a peaceful contentment with life, they don't want any kind of self sustainability when it comes to food or any other service for that matter. They need...to be needed, to have control.
[–]mahpton 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago*
Meh. What this guy is actually saying is:
I am happy wasting my time doing unnecessary manual labor that has long since been mechanized. Fuck buying things, I'm gonna loom my own clothes clothes and shovel dirt.
I hate industry. Technology just lets the man control you. To hell with actually fighting the man, I'm just going to opt-out and live off the land.
I am happy with my enormous plot of land. I don't care that this land could be put to better use because I'm too good to live in an urban area. All the animals who depend on land like this are out of luck because me living my nostalgic farm boy lifestyle is more important.
I don't actually care about bettering myself. I am happy letting my irrational sense of satisfaction drive my life to dormancy.
[–]TheSelfGoverned 13 points14 points15 points 2 days ago
Or...it is a free country and he can choose to live how he sees fit?
Deprogram yourself.
[–]mahpton -9 points-8 points-7 points 2 days ago
Figures an ancap would show up defending the rights of others to live in an anti-social manner.
[–]haydensane[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
What would you suggest? Bolshevism?
[–]Speculum 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
Owning property means taking responsibility. This is even more relevant for owning land because land is the most limited resource available.
Bolshekiks deserve the credit that they correctly judged the irresponsible proprietors as the core of the crisis of the Russian society. Their mistake was replacing one evil with another, an even bigger one. A institution like the state or capital corporations will always do a worse job in taking responsible care of land than natural persons will do.
But still, property whose owner doesn't take the responsibility for has to be regarded as ownerless.
[–]mahpton -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 days ago
I love how even in the anarchist community, there's red baiting. No. What I'm suggesting is that the ancaps go back to r/Anarcho_Capitalism
I'm not an ancap, though. I realize TheSelfGoverned might be, but I don't keep a list handy by my computer so I don't really know.
[–]Raiancap 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago
Well, yes. If I want to isolate myself and I harm no others in the process, how is it your concern?
[–]Erotic_Pigeons 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago
It's almost as if Anarchists just want to force their way of life on others!
[–]mahpton -1 points0 points1 point 2 days ago
It depends on how you go about isolating yourself, you need to be more specific.
[–]Raiancap -1 points0 points1 point 2 days ago
I live alone on a plot of land on which I produce all that I need for my survival without interacting with others.
[–]Speculum -1 points0 points1 point 1 day ago
And when someone stumbles on your plot of land. What will happen then? As long as you live you will interact with others. If you build a wall around yourself, that wall may do the interacting, but you will still interact with others through the wall.
Human being is a social being. An ideology which omits this simple fact is not even rational, let alone practical.
[–]mahpton 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
I'm so sorry that you're that way.
[–]Raiancap 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
I'm not. I meant to provide an example for you.
Then the problem is that you're basically saying 'screw you' to a society that invested a lot of time into raising you, feeding you, giving you an education, etc. People have a debt to pay to society, because without society, we'd all be feral animals. There's no such thing as a self made man, you are who you are because of society. Refusing to reciprocate is selfish and disrespectful to all the people who cared about you. Furthermore, by refusing to contribute your abilities back to society, you're hurting all the people whose lives could be made better if you only decided to care.
Now to get back to your example, let's say you run away to the backcountry and produce everything you need yourself without ever interacting with society again. This is even worse, because not only have you taken from society without giving back, you're now recklessly taking from nature. You've carved yourself out a new habitat where you weren't welcome, kicking animals out of their home, skinning them to make your own clothes, polluting their water, etc. And since you're just one person, you're making grossly inefficient use of the resources nature has given you. So much harm just to fulfill a disturbed desire to get away from people.
But this logic isn't black and white. It certainly doesn't apply to indigenous people who were just trying to live their lives until another culture showed up and started ruining everything. There are also some people who belong to groups that are so systematically marginalized, that you simply can't blame them if they want to get away from a society that only seems to hurt them.
You could also use these arguments to scorn people who run away from their home towns to go live in New York City. Yes, that's selfish too in some respects, but they're still giving back to the human race and I don't believe people should be beholden to towns or nations. There needs to be a balance between individual autonomy and the needs of families and communities. I also don't think anyone should put a gun to your head and tell you that you can't live in a log cabin in the woods. But my point is, just because you can do something doesn't mean it's right or that you should.
[–]ghenyob -1 points0 points1 point 5 hours ago
The society that we love was built by humans, not animals. Trees, water, and animals must be converted into goods that give us happiness. That is an efficient use of them. The private sector needs to convert natural resources into consumer goods in order to make profits. The state is the leading waster of natural resources. The Pentagon consumes several times as much fuel as third world nations due per day, on wars and military operations, not production. As for indigenous people, the reason why groups fight over natural resources is due to poorly defined property rights.
[–]TheSelfGoverned 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago*
Are Amish people are anti-social? How about native Americans? Are farmers anti-social? Are Mennonites anti-social? Are indigenous people anti-social?
This is rational
And of course, this.
[–]mahpton -1 points0 points1 point 2 days ago*
Are Amish people are anti-social?
Is their culture not based on shunning society?
How about native Americans?
Uhhh, native americans don't exactly live in teepees anymore...
Edit: It seems you added pics to your comment while I was making dinner. I have no idea what you're implying or how it has anything to do with what I said. Do you think I'm pro traffic jams? I would even say the system that lets people own their own cars rather than sharing them is anti-social.
[–]Very_Clevar 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
Technology just lets the man control you.
This is entirely true, considering which groups direct the path of technology. Technology is empowering to anyone who can obtain access to it. In general that means people who are already empowered have the greatest access to technology, and this establishes a beautiful hierarchy.
[–]nillotampoco 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago
You can grow what you need for a family of four on less than 2 acres with modern techniques, organically, this isn't the stone age. And think if you used those techniques in a commune to feed yourselves and provide organic produce to your surrounding community? Beautiful.
[–]criticalnegation 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
make him brown and you pretty much have the history of colonialism.
[–]MikeBoda[M] -1 points0 points1 point 1 day ago
Removed. Anti-civilization means anti-anarchism.
[–]ItAteEverybody 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago
Seeing as this thread has a pretty high level of support, you may have to qualify that a little more.
[–]Victor_VVV 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago
It is still there.
[–]MikeBoda 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago
Reddit user ItAteEverybody re-approved it.
[–]CultureofInsanity 1 point2 points3 points 10 hours ago
You don't think green anarchism is a valid type of anarchism? It's not like the guy in the picture is a primitivist or anything.
[–]MikeBoda 1 point2 points3 points 9 hours ago
While primies tend to be anti-agraculture, an anti-civilization movement that supported agriculture would be just as brutal and anti-working class. Look at Pol-Pot's "year zero" policy in Cambodia where intellectuals were mass executed, city dwellers were forced to the country to do manual labor, and the overall standard of living massively declined.
All anarchists are for living in harmony with the earth: stopping habitat destruction, living sustainably, reducing harmful pollution, etc. However, we are not in favor of destroying civilization or advanced industry.
[–]CultureofInsanity -1 points0 points1 point 9 hours ago
Look, I'm not saying you have to agree with it but green anarchism is a large and respected group (even if not by you). To say they are "anti-anarchist" is just silly.
I see anarchism as a historic class struggle movement: one that toppled states, carried out general strikes, defeated the church, etc.
I don't think most hippies, crusties, and college kid activists who call themselves "anarchists" today have anything to do with that movement.
[–]CultureofInsanity 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago
So you're just going to remove any posts that have to do with green activistm, ELF/ALF, tree sits, monkeywrenching, etc? I'm not saying you can't but this is something where you need to get community consensus to make sure that the rest of the community feels the same way.
Directly opposing civilization is anti-anarchist. Anti-civ propaganda should be removed.
I never said I was opposed to green activism. While we may not have political agreement with every person who has carried out an ELF action, we should still explore the political implications of sabotage, monkey-wrenching, etc. An act carried out by someone who is anti-civ can be a topic of discussion here.
Direct agitation against civilization, however, means advocating a brutal ideology that has no connection with the historic anarchist movement, and that, in fact, directly opposes many of our aims: increased autonomy, federalism, worker control of industry, a rising standard of living, a scientific/materialist world-view, etc.
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[–]hierarchyhitmann 16 points17 points18 points ago
[–]b1azeichi 15 points16 points17 points ago
[–]InjectThePoison 8 points9 points10 points ago
[–]b1azeichi 3 points4 points5 points ago
[–]InjectThePoison 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]b1azeichi 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]haydensane[S] 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]b1azeichi 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]Levy_Wilson 9 points10 points11 points ago
[–]Americium 13 points14 points15 points ago
[–]GrymFandango 9 points10 points11 points ago
[–]Greyletter 6 points7 points8 points ago
[–]dumnezero 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]Greyletter 5 points6 points7 points ago
[–]Cariocecus 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]edselford 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]ChuckFinale 4 points5 points6 points ago
[–]jackolas 12 points13 points14 points ago
[–]CunningAllusionment 20 points21 points22 points ago
[–]bl4ckb4dg3r5 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]LassieMcIntosh 35 points36 points37 points ago
[–]jackolas 9 points10 points11 points ago
[–]LassieMcIntosh 6 points7 points8 points ago
[–]jackolas 6 points7 points8 points ago
[–]pizzabox 4 points5 points6 points ago
[–]CultureofInsanity 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]jackolas 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]NelsonBig 12 points13 points14 points ago
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[–]Turtley 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]ChickenOfDoom 5 points6 points7 points ago
[–]haydensane[S] 5 points6 points7 points ago
[–]GrymFandango 11 points12 points13 points ago
[–]jackolas 11 points12 points13 points ago
[–]jf_ftw 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]ItAteEverybody 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]LassieMcIntosh 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]jf_ftw -1 points0 points1 point ago
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[–]jf_ftw 0 points1 point2 points ago
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[–]TheSelfGoverned 0 points1 point2 points ago
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[–]weltpolitik 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]manwithnostomach 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]mahpton 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]TheSelfGoverned 13 points14 points15 points ago
[–]Very_Clevar 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]nillotampoco 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]criticalnegation 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]MikeBoda[M] -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]ItAteEverybody 2 points3 points4 points ago
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