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top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]VintageRuins 177 points178 points ago

[–]Nfc24 1 point2 points ago

By far one of my favorite gifs. Good work sir.

[–]lowerletters 119 points120 points ago

I came here for arguments and drama and was not disappointed

[–]Nick20002 43 points44 points ago

[–]Timmyp17 18 points19 points ago

I was expecting this one myself.

[–]xlaxplaya 14 points15 points ago

I came here for that gif and was not disappointed.

[–]chunky_goonie 3 points4 points ago

Same. Now, I am going to see myself out.

[–]el_Gigante 225 points226 points ago

Everyone can pretty much ignore this comment, looks like the circle jerk is in full swing.

The US killed a bunch of innocent people in the middle east, as well as Japan.

The middle east has been in a massive clusterfuck for 1600 years resulting in poverty and continual violence because of egoism.

The Japanese attacked the US, did horrible things to the Pacific islands, Korea, and China.

A joint attack by both the US and the UK firebombed civilian centers in Germany.

Germany killed millions of other Europeans, Jews, homosexuals, and anyone else that didn't fit into their brand of eugenics.

Russia did the same to everyone that they saw.

Most if not all European countries and colonies had slaves, and caused countless wars, genocides, and generally bad things to happen.

Spain destroyed the native culture of South America

The US, British and French, collectively destroyed the native populations of North America.

The various crusades conducted by pretty much everyone, destroyed any potential long term stability in the middle east.

Before that our ancestors used to club each other to death because we were from a different tribe, protecting the patch of dirt they laid claim to, etc.

There is at least 6000 years of this bullshit, thats pretty much been continuous. Every single one of our countries, families, and species has either directly or indirectly fucked things up. If you pay taxes you bought a bullet that killed someone. If you voted for anything, supported anything, created anything; chances are that you have done something that instigated a terrible act upon another.

We as a species are built to try to win this fucked up game of existence. Just remember that sooner or later it'll be your turn to be seen as the person who has done injustice to the world. You or your progeny will be the next great ignorant, uneducated, nationalistic fuckup that the world will point its finger at for all that has befallen it.

TL;DR- Not a single one of us is innocent or better than anyone else.

[–]archlol 64 points65 points ago

[–]Americommie 27 points28 points ago

Don't forget about the Rape of Nanking during WW2, where Japan decimated a city of 250,000 people. Many were brutally tortured, most of them women. And the overall devastation in China by Japan, where an estimated 35 million people were killed, I don't mean to take away from the atrocity that was the atomic bomb but, hey, war is war; it blows for everybody. But you are very right, every culture has blood on its hands and it is senseless arguing about it, were all just a big fucked up family of human beings

[–]xblackdog 4 points5 points ago

Also the people who died in the atomic blast saved the lives of both Japaneses and American soldiers lives (and civilians). Not to mention that civilians would have died in the invasion anyways. The bombs saved more lives than they took. Don't believe me? Just look at Iwo Jima. No one would have won without the bombs.

[–]munchy508 3 points4 points ago

This is completely true. Japan was actually requiring civilians to be trained to fight in case of an invasion.

[–]PicopicoEMD 3 points4 points ago

What about Uruguay?

[–]shadowfish 4 points5 points ago

Don't ask, don't tell...

[–]QuadraKaiser 4 points5 points ago

Im just curious: What did Canada do?

[–]Texas0324 6 points7 points ago

Justin Beiber

[–]DamagingExcess 26 points27 points ago

This. As an american who's not retarded, a commend you

[–]HeilKaiba 1 point2 points ago

Well said.

[–]dime5150 1 point2 points ago

holy fucking shit sir. AMEN.

[–]mainsworth 7 points8 points ago

WOOHOO! We all suck!

[–]sneakus 0 points1 point ago

"Not a single one of us is innocent or better than anyone else."

I dislike this statement a lot in the context you are using it in. I do not think of my ancestors or governments actions as my own, i do not feel any white guilt for slavery as i wasn't alive, i do not feel any guilt for Blair going into Iraq, they are not my actions and i do not condone them. Although i get your point, that way of thinking is what drives a lot of problems, people are too often viewed as 1 group of people, "Americans" bombed japan "Muslims" colapsed the world trade centres and so on. People need to start thinking more and realising that 1 small group of radical muslims out of sync with mainline Islam colapsed the WTC, a small section of high ranking American politicians and a few military personal under order bombed Japan.

[–]DialtoneLazor 29 points30 points ago

I think many fellow Americans will agree with me here, 9/11 was not the worst thing to happen to the world, it was the worst thing (in quite a long time at least) to happen to America. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think remembrance of 9/11 is being misrepresented in this post. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were tons of times worse than 9/11.

[–]HippoIdioRepubOcrats 16 points17 points ago

This would be correct. Remembering 9/11 is because of it's impact on us as a country. And nothing more. All the other jackasses pulling hiroshima, war crimes blah blah blah are just looking for reasons to troll and or fight on the internet. But what do you expect - this is Reddit

[–]bottom_of_the_well 8 points9 points ago

What about this, smart guy? I think has been in the public consciousness for a while now.

[–]mindaika 2 points3 points ago

Roughly 3,000 people died in the 9/11 attacks. There are 11,000 people killed every single year by drunk drivers. There are 443,000 smoking death per year. 9/11 was not the worst thing to happen to America.

[–]Ematrix56 2 points3 points ago

Well death toll wise no. However the resulting fear that has given power TSA, CIA and the birth of HLS is crippling the citizens of the US, thanks to fear just as Osama had predicted the government would do. Along with profiling of anyone that is brown. To top it off New York is having a nice new tower build that the government cannot afford and the building won't be filled. Bin Ladin may be dead but he still got a victory.

[–]HerbyDrinks 42 points43 points ago

Fairly sure they both sucked.

[–]SomeThingsOdd 116 points117 points ago

This does not belong in /r/funny.

[–]Siethron 14 points15 points ago

No... but this thread will.

[–]TwoLegsJoe 23 points24 points ago

I know, /r/AdviceAnimals is there for a reason...

[–]drofnasleinad 19 points20 points ago

Why does everyone forget about Nagasaki?

[–]beltran63 22 points23 points ago

Second place.

[–]winkandthegun 5 points6 points ago

because by then, nuking cities was so 'three days ago'

[–]ladyscarface 59 points60 points ago

The point of this matter is not who is right and who is wrong in any of these situations, the point is it's pretty f****d up for anyone to tell another person that they are not allowed to mourn for a terrible act. It is understandable that our country has done wrong in the past but this does not give others the right to bash those that wish to pay their respects for lost lives and families affected by 9/11.

[–]bigskykb 13 points14 points ago

Agreed. It's not a competition.

[–]hoganloaf 3 points4 points ago

You're forfeiting! I win!

[–]DPRKis4Lovers 6 points7 points ago

I don't know any Americans that actually think this. Americans are more likely to equate 9/11 with Pearl Harbor. It's much harder to compare it to Hiroshima or the Holocaust or Nanking, etc.

[–]gumby_arobics 2 points3 points ago

I'm not sure about OP's feelings on the subject, but my personal thoughts are that we make such a huge deal about 9/11 that I think sometimes we forget about even worse tragedies that happen all over the world.

Although I wholeheartedly agree that 9/11 was terrible, there should also be room to mourn about even worse tragedies.

[–]nitefang 2 points3 points ago

I'm sure other countries mourn for their own tragedies. I don't think we are asking Japan to mourn for our problems, and they don't ask us to mourn Hiroshima.

[–]thedeutschbag 6 points7 points ago

What, do you expect Americans to come out and say "Oh well we killed a lot of people in our past so I guess this is okay"?

[–]lisan_al_gaib 19 points20 points ago

We dropped those bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during a war. A war that the Japanese drew us into when they attacked us on our soil at Pear Harbor. People equate September 11th to Pearl Harbor because both were surprise attacks and killed about the same number of people. The difference, in my mind, is that one was an attack on our military by the military of another nation, and the other was done by violent jihadists on civilian populations.

In WWII, All nations involved would carpet bomb cities indiscriminately, both in Europe and Asia. In the Pacific, the US forces had to invade and conquer/liberate each and every island from the Japanese. Every. Single. One. The Japanese did not surrender, they fought to the last man, and used suicide bombers and unconventional warfare tactics. The prospects of having to invade the Japanese mainland to win the war in the Pacific would have cost the lives of millions of Americans AND Japanese. Women and children would have been caught in the intensified bombing of the mainland (that was already going on). We dropped two atomic bombs onto Hiroshima and Nagasaki so that the Japanese would believe that we had more of these bombs to drop; if we dropped just one, they could have taken it as a once in a lifetime weapon. We dropped them on Hiroshima and Nagasaki also because those cities were relatively untouched by prior bombings, and we wanted to see the actual effects these bombs would have. Dropping them on Tokyo, a city which already had been bombed, would have muddied the 'scientific' results.

The results of dropping those two bombs on those cities was horrific, but by doing so, the Japanese military surrendered, sparing all of the lives who would have perished the otherwise inevitable invasion of Japan. The moral argument is that many died so that many x many more would live--also, it was fucking war, and you beat your enemy and spare your own troops. I understand how senseless it seems to bomb civilian populations, but that's what every country did in WWII, that was how you fought conventional warfare during that period.

I understand your impatience with America's seeming obsession with 9/11/2001, but please understand that is the greatest American tragedy of our time. It was a horribly bl;ow to our psyche, we are not like other countries that have had wars fought here, we are flanked by vast oceans on either side. The worst warfare we've ever seen on our own soil was the Revolution and the American Civil War. 9/11 was not a military attack during a time of war, it was a terrorist attack on innocent civilians. That's the difference between 9/11 and the attacks on Japan. What we did was to end a war that they started by attacking us while our guard was down; they sucker punched us in the balls. I know many people argue that 9/11/2001 is a 'retaliation' on America, but for what? We trained them and aided them in their war of liberation against the Soviets. We bought their goods and gave every single one of the muslim nations aid. They attacked us because they see us as "the Great Satan" now that the USSR is collapsed. Because we 'corrupt their women and their children with evil music, television, and McDonalds.' I hardly see that as a worthy argument for 'retaliation' in such a horrific form.

I understand your growing frustration for us to "get over it," but the pain and the wounds still feel fresh. The children of the people who died are still growing up without their parents. Our monuments, memorials, and buildings are still not yet finished. We still need just a little bit longer to heal. Already in America there is talk about how the children in our schools were not alive during 9/11, and how they view it as history. So, you will probably get your wish for us to shut up about it soon. We will, however, always look to it as a second "Day of Infamy." Nobody really looks back on the date of Pearl Harbor anymore and cries, because most everyone who remembers that is gone. In a generation or two, I believe it will sadly only be remembered as "Patriot Day," and be just another date on our American calendars.

[–]Irishpilot84 3 points4 points ago

Who said 9/11 was the worst thing ever to happen to humanity? The human race has a pretty violent past filled with greed, land grabs, and mass killing. What country do you live in? I guarantee you that your country has a checkered past as well.

Discounting 9/11 as an event is the height of ignorance. It was the first LIVE tv loss of life on a grand scale. It captured our nation because the loss of life wasn't in some battlefield or hospital but right in the middle of our society. Putting 3000 lives into perspective it isn't a lot of people but WATCHING each one of those people die, the media coverage, the back stories of the dead, watching normal people executed for something they knew nothing about on live tv... that is why 9/11 is excruciating to think about.

[–]kriegfl 1 point2 points ago

Because that whole Holocaust thing, as well as all the other genocides, mass killings, and other associated acts in history didn't happen.

[–]Quietbetrayal 18 points19 points ago

I was looking forward to 9/11 because it's not everyday I get to see everyone bashing America on Reddit. Oh wait that's everyday.

[–]S1ngl3t0n44 267 points268 points ago

History prof here. A retaliatory act of war affected upon a well defended country is far different than an act of hateful terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians. If you want to hate America, then leave.

We don't need you here.

[–]Vioarr 38 points39 points ago

Fun fact, the purple hearts still given out to this day are from the stockpile that was created in preparation for the invasion of Japan.

Edit: Just in case somehow the comment below gets buried:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart

For the lazy:

"During World War II, nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the estimated casualties resulting from the planned Allied invasion of Japan. To the present date, total combined American military casualties of the sixty-five years following the end of World War II—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exceeded that number. In 2003, there were still 120,000 of these Purple Heart medals in stock. There are so many in surplus that combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan are able to keep Purple Hearts on-hand for immediate award to wounded soldiers in the field."

[–]Guy-Manuel 279 points280 points ago

A retaliatory act of war that we warned them about and gave them ample time before to surrender.

[–]Flywn 118 points119 points ago

And then sent doctors, scientists, and resources to the city afterwards to help civilians recover from the radiation sicknesses that occured during rebuilding.

[–]arup02 19 points20 points ago

How nice of you guys.

[–]sweetie_poopsy_pants 15 points16 points ago

Thank you!! That's how we do.

[–]skeo 1 point2 points ago

Help recover, or do research on the effects of radiation on human beings?

[–]Pebblesetc 1 point2 points ago

By offering them a deal knowing they wouldn't agree, and by prewarning regular bombers not to bomb Hiroshima so that the full effects of the a-bomb could be determined.

[–]Stained_Dagger 5 points6 points ago

Your an idiot. Trinity Test was more powerful then the Hiroshima or Nagasaki bombs. And Japan had effectively lost the war by this point, they had no chance of winning once they lost their air craft carriers and the allies could put their full weight against japan.

Also The amount of TOTAL lives lost would have far exceeded the amount who have died during the bomb and the subsequent side affects.

[–]captain_cornflakes 5 points6 points ago

Your an idiot

[–]comrade_leviathan 13 points14 points ago

You had my upvote and then you had to go all "If you don't like 'Murca you can git out!"

You've got reason on your side, don't sully that with a shitty attitude.

[–]DeanOnFire 12 points13 points ago

You had me up until "If you want to hate America, then leave"

No nation is perfect, but nothing is free from criticism.

[–]mingling4502 31 points32 points ago

There were a lot of defenseless civilians who were killed by the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

[–]Treysloan 31 points32 points ago

Between 90000 and 160000. But they don't count

[–]Obnoxious_liberal 16 points17 points ago

And it was done on purpose. That was not an accident- we bombed civilian towns.

[–]cuddlefucker 4 points5 points ago

True story. But that was the nature of war back then. Firebombing raids actually killed more civilians than both the bombs combined.

[–]halfamiles 7 points8 points ago

The number of defenseless civilians that would have been killed in a land invasion of Japan is much higher than the number caused by the bombing of Hiroshima.

[–]lisan_al_gaib 6 points7 points ago

Ah, another hooman with a brain. Good day to you, sir.

[–]ThisGuyDD 9 points10 points ago

Defensless. For fucks sake. Everyone is throwing that word around. The difference between 9/11 and nuking Japan was the Japanese were expecting hostile actions and on 9/11 we weren't.

[–]Sub-cidal 1 point2 points ago

Oh its cool to nuke people as long as you tell them beforehand?

That makes sense.

[–]Noahcarr 6 points7 points ago

It's not that it's ok to nuke people, it's that a retaliatory act of war that follows warnings is entirely different than an unprovoked terrorist act.

[–]wonkiescientist 1 point2 points ago

Yes!!!!!

[–]QuestionC 21 points22 points ago

I think you are misrepresenting the history a bit here.

a well defended country

By that point in the war, Japan was mostly depleted. Allies began doing daytime air raids because Japan's defenses were devastated.

terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians

Also, we were firebombing civilian areas in the hopes of breaking civilian morale.

I don't mean to suggest we were in the wrong, but I can see how someone would take serious issue with the bombings.

[–]devy0n 20 points21 points ago

upon defenseless civilians

So the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't?

A retaliatory act of war affected upon a well defended country is far different than an act of hateful terrorism

What about all the wars and proxy wars U.S. has waged in the middle east for decades?

[–]madcaesar 13 points14 points ago

Like the smart professor said: If you want to hate America, then leave.

</sarcasm>

[–]lisan_al_gaib 0 points1 point ago

What about all the wars and proxy wars U.S. has waged in the middle east for decades?

Which ones? When we, the entire UN, and dozens of other countries liberated Kuwait, or when we aided the Afghans in their war of independence against the Soviets? Which others am I forgetting?

[–]Edwardian 65 points66 points ago

Thank you for making my point as well. Hiroshima saved the far more lives that would have been lost in an invasion of the Japanese islands at the end of WWII, and occurred because of the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941 that started the war in the first place. . .

[–]SplinterClaw 82 points83 points ago

"started the war in the first place"

I think Poland may just disagree with you there.

[–]Cutlass86g 27 points28 points ago

I believe he was stating that the attack on Pearl Harbor is what caused the U.S. to get involved in the war in the first place.

[–]S1ngl3t0n44 89 points90 points ago

I believe he was referring to specifically the Pacific Theatre, rather than to WWII as a whole.

[–]Themajor13 53 points54 points ago

I think China may disagree with you on what started the Pacific War as well...

[–]MobiusF117 29 points30 points ago

As would most Pacific countries

[–]Highlighter_Freedom 6 points7 points ago

I believe he meant "The Japanese-American War for the Pacific."

[–]UnitedKingdomOfEarth 13 points14 points ago

that started the war in the first place. . .

Tagged as, "Knows fuck all about WW2"

[–]OMEGACY 15 points16 points ago

That may be true. But some 200,000 lives compared to 3,000 lives.......I mean really. I'm sure in their eyes we were terrorists for a time.

Edit: most of them were defenseless civilians as well.

[–]magneteye 11 points12 points ago

How about the defenseless Native Americans that fell victim to a mass genocide started by the Spanish Conquistadors, which numbers are up into the mass millions? I don't see anyone talking or bitching about that.

[–]alkanshel 0 points1 point ago

Mostly disease, IIRC?

[–]magneteye 3 points4 points ago

That came later. They first went through the entire country, including central and parts of South America, killing, raping, pillaging, conquering. It is a subject most don't talk about today. Take a Native American studies class sometime, it's full of sadness.

[–]sp00kes 5 points6 points ago

The citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were defenceless civilians.

[–]lisan_al_gaib 4 points5 points ago

So were the citizens of Berlin. And London. And Moskow. And the Polish.

[–]McPiggy 36 points37 points ago

I'm American, and I too hate when people bad mouth her, but dropping the only two nukes ever on mostly civilian populated cities with casualties over 200,000, and then sticking around with bases in Okinawa to rub it in, is a fucked up set of events. I was stationed at one of these bases and saw our impact there; not good. I love this country but I'm not part of the "I won't apologize for her" group. We have a lot of apologizing to do, and part of that is recognizing that 9/11, in terms of death toll, really isn't that horrific, relative to other happenings around the world. And especially relative to fucking nuking people. Also, for those who perpetrated 9/11, there was a war going on, the American public just didn't know it.

[–]loktar00 41 points42 points ago

Sticking around to rub it in? The United States gave millions to the Japanese to help reconstruction. We helped them reform their education system, and labor system. I would say Japan is doing pretty damn well now. West Germany was also petty fucking happy the US "stayed to rub it in"

[–]mickey_kneecaps 5 points6 points ago

Plus, that Okinawa base and America's nuclear missile shield allow Japan to coast along with one of the lowest defense budgets of any large country. The money that Japan doesn't spend on defense, despite being neighbors of China, North Korea, and Russia, is used to fund social programs. We gave them plenty after the war. If we hadn't needed them as allies in the Cold War, it would have been reasonable to ask for massive reparations.

[–]doneandone 17 points18 points ago

How is it that everyone keeps forgetting that they attacked us first? When we weren't even officially in the war???

[–]nurfbat 3 points4 points ago

Yes it was terrible. However, it was war and the Japanese had their own share of terrible acts(Rape of Nanking, Unit 731). The difference is they deny theirs ever happened, while we just pretend ours was justified. Really it was just to keep the Soviets from invading Japan first and expanding communist reach, but it may have actually saved a positive net amount of lives that would have been killed by invasion.

[–]IrishPub 2 points3 points ago

Don't forget that we make Okinawa pay for the upkeep of the bases. Also, crime and rape by US soldiers gets almost no coverage and nothing is really done to them. Coupled with the loud noises and poor health conditions for the area, yeah, it's fucked up.

[–]TMM 0 points1 point ago

Yes, as we all know there weren't any defenseless civilians in those cities.

ಠ_ಠ

[–]thetruth323 0 points1 point ago

Fuck yes!

[–]E-rye 2 points3 points ago

I'm guessing an American history Prof? I agree with your first statement, however I do believe that the second part is a bit harsh. Where is "here" exactly? Do you mean the U.S? Reddit? The internet in general? I did not mean any offense by this comment and hopefully none was taken.

[–]_zoso_ 0 points1 point ago

Plus the nukes were really a drop in the ocean compared to the utter carnage of the firebombing campaign.

[–]lolodotkoli 5 points6 points ago

If you hate America, then leave. We don't need you here.

http://imgur.com/jUQJT

[–]cameronbabiak 20 points21 points ago

So bombing innocent citizens, including killing thousands of non-combative woman and children, and leaving a legacy of nuclear poisoning and birth defects was a comparable and justifiable reciprocal response to a war-time attack on a military installation?

Blow it out your ass.

[–]SbWhyOhWhy 2 points3 points ago

To be fair, the Japanese would have liked to destroy our cities and murder our civilians if they could have. Their lack of control in the Pacific was the only thing that stopped them from bombing the west coast. They did try releasing thousands of balloon bombs into the air currents above the Pacific to indiscriminately fall across the US. Luckily their balloon-making skills sucked.

[–]bottom_of_the_well 8 points9 points ago

To be fair, the Germans would have liked to imprison and gas millions of people if they could have.

Justification for gassing the German populace after the war?

[–]Highlighter_Freedom 2 points3 points ago

Take a look at China. The only reason the Japanese didn't attack many American civilians was because the U.S. pacific fleet stopped them. When the Japanese could attack civilian populations, we got things like Nanking.

[–]Vanular 23 points24 points ago

Really?

I'm pretty sure that if you'd ask Osama and his gang they'd argue that they were, too, retaliating.

Needless to say, both parties (the US and Osama) retaliated on innocent people and not the actual (in their eyes) villain. A history prof maybe ... but not very objective.

[–]a_clever_funny_name 13 points14 points ago

The difference being that the US basically had the choice of Invasion or Bomb, both of which would have resulted in massive numbers of deaths of Japanese civilians and soldiers on both sides, as diplomacy had been shut down by the Japanese, while the terrorists had the choice of massive acts of terrorism or diplomacy, but diplomatic channels beyond fuzzy videos from caves weren't ever really pursued

[–]bottom_of_the_well 1 point2 points ago

I think a large fraction of historians today believe that the bombs were dropped to scare off the USSR. Basically a "back the fuck up" to the Russians who were hoping to grab some of Asia.

[–]ComradeButterfly 3 points4 points ago

I definitely agree that it's a tragedy but it's interesting you should mention that when the United States stands by Israel. Yes the same "country" that caused the massacre of Qana where holy hell... it was all about hateful terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians that the news did not find tragic enough because it was too busy sucking Israeli dick. But no, I don't hate America, this country gave me a lot, but in return I have experienced so much hate for Arabs and Muslims due to ignorant assholes blowing it all out of proportion and blaming a whole nation for something a group of extremists did.

[–]Peteyjay 7 points8 points ago

In my opinion, hate if you want, the two can't be compared.

America forced the hand of Japan by showing an ultimate act of power and ruthlessness. The bombs would've continued to have dropped across Japan until there was no Japan left if they didn't surrender.

Yes, Japan instigated the Pacific front by attacking Pearl Harbour. But that was a military installation. Hiroshima was a civilian epicentre.

To then consider the act of 9/11 and suggest it was completely unprovoked is fucking idiotic.

Back when the bomb was dropped there was no means of technology to prevent this. In 2001, we had TOO much technology in the world. How were passenger planes able to fly off course, without any response from their pilots without being apprehended or picked up on the relevant tech?

9/11 was a shocking insight into the sadistic nature and hatred found in some people. Civilians killed for effect. An effect that didn't work, because the world is not afraid.

But Hiroshima. Yeah, 'it ended a war', but now the world is petrified of nuclear weaponry. To think you, your neighbour, the block over, the borough over and pretty much all of the city, would be fucked. Scary stuff.

I have never been so angered by a comment on a website before. The self righteous nature of your remarks, the fact you feel the need to declare you are a history professor and especially the fact you've seemingly suggested the inhabitants of Hiroshima weren't 'innocent civilians' unlike those in New York.

I understand that in these paragraphs I may have started a point then possibly not concluded it. But it's really hard to keep focused on this topic when I honestly want to throw my phone at the wall in response to your narrow minded, ill thought out and seriously ignorant comment.

Tl;Dr: Professor? Bullshit.

[–]alkanshel 7 points8 points ago

From Wikipedia:

"During World War II, the Second Army and Chugoku Regional Army were headquartered in Hiroshima, and the Army Marine Headquarters was located at Ujina port. The city also had large depots of military supplies, and was a key center for shipping."

Had civilians, yes. Had no military value, no. Just had to point that out.

[–]Chronomath 2 points3 points ago

Well spoken.

[–]d3adbor3d2 6 points7 points ago

which we then retaliated by killing thousands of innocent Iraqis. makes sense to me.

edit: your argument didn't work for the native americans either

[–]Consequence6 0 points1 point ago

While I understand that a lot of innocent people died, I just want to clear up for everyone that those statistics you read count terrorist cells as non-military personnel, and there for makes them seem like "innocent civilians".

[–]Khnagul 5 points6 points ago

WHAT THE FUCK EDIT : seriously you're an history prof ?

[–]FrownSyndrome 2 points3 points ago

History prof...sure.

[–]1000TN 1 point2 points ago

Mr. History Professor, you are saying an act of war against defenseless civilians is something other than an act of war against defenseless civilians. 'If you want to hate america, then leave'? What kind of 'history prof/expert/anothertitleyoumadeupforyourself are you? First of all, you are spouting a bunch of ignorant bullshit. I agree these two events are distinguishable, but not in the way you would like it to. The last two sentences actually disqualify you to call yourself not even a history professor, which i doubt you am, but even a person that considers historical truth to be important in general. If you want to spout stupid, one sided, ignorant bullshit, then leave. I dont need you here.

[–]Dharmasabitch 24 points25 points ago

spouting a bunch of ignorant bullshit

He uses one sentence to make his point, this one:

A retaliatory act of war affected upon a well defended country is far different than an act of hateful terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians.

Do you disagree? How is that ignorant? That seems pretty clear to any thinking person... "which i doubt you am".

The bombing of Japan was more than just retaliatory, it was to end a bloody war against a country whose culture abhorred surrender. The war wasn't going to end, as far as Japan was concerned, until it didn't have a single soldier left. US culture at the time was much more concerned with saving the lives of its soldiers.

But, I see your main problem isn't with the factual part of the statement (although that's what you end up attacking):

The last two sentences actually disqualify you to call yourself not even a history professor, which i doubt you am, but even a person that considers historical truth to be important in general. If you want to spout stupid, one sided, ignorant bullshit, then leave. I dont need you here.

Those two sentences were:

If you want to hate America, then leave. We don't need you here.

How is that stupid, ignorant, or one-sided? He doesn't say he takes the side of the US in all cases. He doesn't even say he takes the side of the US in this case, or any case. As a history professor, it would behove him not to. The only "stupid, one sided, ignorant bullshit" I'm hearing is from OP and you. This anti-American thing is immature and out of control. The United States has plenty of faults, so use rational arguments against them. But this is clearly an irrational attack on the US with absolutely no factual backing. He said "we don't need you here" because this shit is anti-intellectual and brings down the collective IQ of the community and the maturity of its discourse. Blind hatred against the US is just like blind hatred against any other country... how ironic that people like you use your stereotype of the US engaging in the latter for you to justify your engaging in the former.

By the way, if you want to see what real ignorance is, look at the second half of OP's post. What American thinks 9/11 is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity? That's bullshit that you people make up. You're taking hints from the current US Republican Party - put words in the opponents mouth and then attack your invention. Most Americans probably think the Holocaust was the worst thing to happen to humanity.

[–]1000TN 1 point2 points ago

Let me start as saying that there is no "we people". I dont think 9/11 was the worst thing ever to happen to humanity and i dont care who does.

And yes, i disagree. He glorifies hiroshima by calling it a "retaliatory act of war affected upon a well defended country". It's as simple as that. The contrast between calling the drop of an atom bomb on a city justified and flying planes into two buildings hateful terrorism is only made more clear by the fact that he defends the one and has a problem with the other. As i said before, in a part of my post you obviously didnt pay much attention to, I agreed that these events are distinguishable. But calling one a "retaliatory act of war affected upon a well defended country" and the other "an act of hateful terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians" is idiotic. I agree that the second one is an act of hateful terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians. I also think, in terms of defending hiroshima, he has his head as far up his ass as it goes. Its doublespeak.

As i made clear, my problem with him calling himself a history professor was not due to his opinion, but to one-sidedness and hate.

Its funny how you make a point of me critisizing the last part of his bullshit yet the biggest part of your post is just about that, defending it. And it shows exactly how much of your energy, just as in my post allegedly, goes to rambling about your political preference and about how the hate on america has to stop instead of the argument. You explain he said "we dont need you here" because it is anti-intellectual. Now, either you know much more about him than you should or you are very naive. Or just positive-natured. I can assure you that it looks most different to me. But I guess thats just what we people make up.

[–]EL_MAFF 7 points8 points ago

Sources are always nice. Perhaps some background as to what sort of declared war the US and Osama were involved in, maybe some evidence of the diplomatic talks that took place between the bombers and the Americans, would add to the discussion. And, as an American, I admit that we aren't perfect. That being said, I would appreciate it of both sides dropped their bias and admitted that, while far worse things have happened (The Holocaust, Apartheid, come to mind) 9/11 was still a tragedy. If we can't agree to this premise, then this discussion appears futile.

[–]PenisSizedNipples 6 points7 points ago

He may in fact be employed as a history professor but that doesn't mean he's a good one.

[–]snarkinturtle 0 points1 point ago

If this isn't sarcasm, you should be fucking fired you flag-fucking inbred twat. I thought objectivity and perspective were required to be prof? Well, on the bright side, you're probably lying anyway.

[–]Mighty_Hare 2 points3 points ago

Though you're right about the difference betweens the acts, saying that everyone who hates America should leave is really pathetic. For one, it's the frikking internet.

[–]tomllm 0 points1 point ago

...'a well defended country.'

Not by the summer of 1945, it wasn't. At least not technologically, in the face of B29s and the Allied armada. Your knowledge of history is a touch biased.

[–]tomzephy 4 points5 points ago

Hiroshima victims were defenseless as well.

A retaliatory act of war affected upon a well defended country is far different than an act of hateful terrorism inflicted upon defenseless civilians

It's really not. Not at all. The end game is that innocents still die, there's absolutely no justifying Hiroshima just like there's no justifying 9/11 - at the end of the day you're just letting patriotism get the better of you - 'It's my country, therefore its the worst thing ever' - No. Americans are the only people who still give such a big shit about 9/11 (sorry for the bluntness), far worse things have happened around the world in the past decade, get over it.

[–]brdma 6 points7 points ago

I'll start off by saying that this reply is not in support of the fake history professor. There is no amount of information that you could supply me with that would allow me to make a qualified opinion on the use of atomic weapons in Japan. I am far too removed from the facts and circumstances surrounding that grisly war to be of any use there. That said:

Americans are the only people who still give such a big shit about 9/11

And your point? I don't think we expect anyone else to join in our mourning.

far worse things have happened around the world in the past decade

I'm not sure how that disqualifies a nation from mourning a rather personal tragedy. I'm sure Norway will be mourning the loss of its people on July 22, 2011, annually, and I'm sure the town of Aurora, Colorado will be mourning the loss of its people on July 20th, 2012, annually. Nothing your cynical, hateful mouth can spew will change that.

get over it

Hey you, go fuck yourself.

[–]footballguy15 1 point2 points ago

9/11 was a retaliatory attack inflinced upon a well defended nation. Osama Bin Laden was retaliating against Americans brutal foreign policies of the last few decades which lead to the deaths of many Muslim civilians.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]MrF33 15 points16 points ago

The U.S. attacked two of the largest arms manufacturing centers in Japan, that is most definitely a strategic attack.

[–]sullyosullivan 7 points8 points ago

yet civilians died at pearl harbor too. the fact that we tried to warn the japanese and offered a surrender and told people to get out of the city is the difference than just a surprise attack on unsuspecting, innocent people.

[–]NeVeNGamingYT 2 points3 points ago

They did a surprise attack, on a military base to conquer more of the pacific. They did infact want to become "ruler of the pacific". Now they didn't only do this because they wanted more land, they also did it because they were allied with the axis.

Of course civilians died, but the main point here is that they didn't TARGET civilians.

[–]Noahcarr 2 points3 points ago

The Japanese in the case of Pearl Harbor did not target civilians. That was not always the case.

The Japanese were monstrous to the Chinese. I understand that the civilians had nothing to do with that, but I hate seeing Japan painted as a cowering victim that America bullied and bombed.

Nanking Massacre

[–]Sub-cidal 0 points1 point ago

Hey guys, where do i get my 'murrican flags so i can shove 34 of them up my ass as well?

[–]Sanity_prevails 3 points4 points ago

A couple of things. Shove your "leave America" attitude you know where. This is America, the land where we welcome and debate all ideas. Secondly, how exactly were defenseless Japanese civilians at fault? What were they supposed to do? You get C- for effort.

[–]Piratiko 3 points4 points ago

I was with you until...

If you want to hate America, then leave.

Who says the guy hates America? A little harsh, no?

Wait... history prof... "you hate America"...

... NEWT GINGRICH!? Is that you!?

[–]Atsir -3 points-2 points ago

So leveling a city where civilians live is perfectly acceptable? How does stating that you're a history prof even fucking qualify you to make statements like yours? You're an ignorant tool.

[–]mydicklol 15 points16 points ago

We bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki to save lives. The alternative was a main land invasion which would cost millions of lives both American and Japanese . Jack ass.

[–]BanditXJ 20 points21 points ago

OP is right, we ought to just forget 9/11 ever happened. I mean Hiroshima was worse, so fuck it! But you know what? Genghis Khan was responsible for even more deaths. I mean, why are people still remembering these bombs? Something way worse happened in the past, so we might as well just forget that anything else ever even happened.

[–]cleverseneca 4 points5 points ago

70,000 people were killed in the Battle of Canae, I think the North Africans have some 'splainen to do!

[–]amishtek 17 points18 points ago

I hope for the day an alien race comes and is aggressive, I think it will finally make us think about things globally, "us VS them", instead of this intra-species killing bullshit.

[–]neayaa 20 points21 points ago

How about peaceful cooperation between human beings without the creation of a new external enemy?

"Us VS them" is the actual problem.

[–]a_clever_funny_name 8 points9 points ago

Why not build him? We have the Technology.

We could do this, we could invent the greatest enemy of all mankind, forcing humanity to band together. Who's with me? Who want to build SKULLLORD, BANE OF HUMANITY?

It'll be like watchmen only with fewer blue dicks

[–]OztinL 4 points5 points ago

Okay, here's one for Japan.

Killed twice as many people as the Nazis, guilty of some of the most unspeakable atrocities known to man, committed on the Chinese

America is the bad guy though cuz bombs

If we were to propose the absurd idea of a "fairness" in war, Japan would be lucky to still be on Earth.

[–]DaSeraph 28 points29 points ago

My real problem with 9/11 is that Americans mourn the three thousand that were killed in the incident, but ignore the hundreds of thousands of Iraq and Afghan civilians that were killed as a result of our attempt to retaliate.

It was a moving experience for all of us for sure and I have no problem having a memorial every year, but we should attempt to keep some global perspective.

[–]dclem153 18 points19 points ago

Where are you getting those numbers from? You may want to check them again my friend as you are throwing out figures that are exaggeratedly high. You make it sound as if we went into both countries shooting anything that moved. Being that I've done two tours I can assure you that this wasn't the case.

[–]dclem153 11 points12 points ago

Before someone talks about the body count really being that high. Do a little research. Those numbers include suicide bombers and other attacks thataltar get the U.S. and local forces. Sometimes they attack civilians just to scare them into not helping us or to secure their foothold in an area. Also all of the fuck ups that the Afghan and Iraq soldiers do. Which is very frequent. They are worse to their own people than you could imagine.

[–]Fearlessleader85 2 points3 points ago

While the two nuclear strikes were pretty damn terrifying incidents. It's easy to forget that more people were killed in the firebombing of Tokyo.

[–]mtux96 3 points4 points ago

Along with the number of people who were killed by Japanese forces prior to even the US becoming involved in WW2.

WW2 was just a nasty war all over.

[–]Zenguin 2 points3 points ago

Ask an American what the worst day In human history was, and they will say 9/11. Ask a Japanese person and they will say that there are too many to choose from and that none should preside over the other. Is that what the OP is trying to get at?

[–]Zman74 0 points1 point ago

Why is this in r/funny?

[–]angrye 2 points3 points ago

Ask the people of Nanking how they feel about Hiroshima.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

[–]Nivlac024 1 point2 points ago

We were at war and warned both Nagasaki and Hiroshima with pamphlets before the bombings.

[–]wag530 5 points6 points ago

what people often over look involving the nuking of japan is this. Japan had no intention of surrender, there where squads of men found in the 1960s who still thought the war was raging. The Japanese people even after the bombings did not want to surrender. America didn't just drop these nukes lightly, they did so trying to end a war. Japan knew how big these bombs would be, they had been warned. The fact of the matter is that if the nukes were not dropped Japan would of kept fighting on, and the pacific was already some of the harshest war our country had seen. and taking their country would be no lite task. without the bombs we would of been forced into another D-day scenario where the amount of lives lost on both sides would of trumped the amount of damage done by the bombings. If i was in the position of ended a world war i would definetly do anything in my power to stop the global bloodshed even if that included a sacrifice up front. war is a terrible thing and terrible things happen in it, and the "civilians" of world wars know the perils they are in, so therefore in my opinion a terrorist attacked planned out to attack civilians (where the nukes were dropped on manufacturing cities of japan to hault their war effort) is far worse than that of a wartime action.

[–]Master_Mad 2 points3 points ago

Japan knew how big these bombs would be, they had been warned.

Is that true? I always thought that even the scientists who created the bomb didn't know how large the impact would be. And that they, as well as the military top, were quite horrified about the large scale destruction that was caused.

That for me is also the only 'positive' side to this tragedy. That because in the droppings the world found out how awfull and destructive atomic weapons are, and what in the future prevented America and Russia to actually use them in conflict. Maybe if the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't dropped that these bombs might've been underestimated during the Cold War and we could've seen a large scale employment.

[–]CollapsingStar 4 points5 points ago

The atomic bomb in World War II did indeed have a higher number of people killed. This, however, does not make the number of people killed in 9/11 any less horrific. I would also add that today is the anniversary of the 9/11 attack. I think America has the right to mourn the loss of 3000 people on the day they died, yes?

[–]Memoren 3 points4 points ago

If you look at the staggering amount of casualties from both sides that would have resulted from an invasion of mainland Japan versus the casualties from 9/11 and the following war in Iraq the two are not comparable.

[–]luft-waffle 6 points7 points ago

I'm no military scholar, but I think there may be a difference between WWII and 9/11.The use of the atomic bomb probably prevented the deaths of millions of Japanese civilians as well as over one million US military personnel. After looking through the defense plans that the Japanese had for the home islands, I'm fairly certain an invasion would have resulted in the complete annihilation of the Japanese people. Why not go read up on Operation: Downfall.

[–]mermadon 1 point2 points ago

The stupidity of this post is unbelievable. There are a myriad of unfortunate events in our history. Does that mean that we are not allowed to remember times when we were attacked?

[–]monaiz 2 points3 points ago

Okay, I'm sorry but we don't think this you ignorant cunt.

[–]JDoobs 2 points3 points ago

This is obvious inflammatory bullshit. Downvoted.

[–]dynasonic 3 points4 points ago

Nuking Japan saved 10 times more lives than they cost. Had Japan not surrendered we would have firebombed MANY more than just 2 Japanese cities. After Japan had burned we would have sent in ground troops to finish off any survivors. Women and children were tasked with the duty of defending their country at any cost. The Japanese mentality during the war was altogether different than now. They would have fought us to the bitter end and in the process snuffed out many more Japanese and American lives in the process.

[–]jaeke 1 point2 points ago

... Bomber Hiroshima to save millions of allied lives, in response to the assault on pearl harbor. which was unprovoked, at least we had a reason

[–]ARCT1C_EAGLE 2 points3 points ago

Actually it also saved many Japanese lives, an invasion of their homeland would have many more lives than were lost in Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Also look at the fire bombings the US conducted, those were far more destructive.

[–]Marchie 2 points3 points ago

In conclusion, OP is a big ass.

[–]LynchMobMurdered -1 points0 points ago

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were events that took place during a time of "total war", where both countries have everything on the line in an attempt to defeat the other. Hiroshima and Nagasaki in hindsight not only saved Allied lives but Japanese lives as well, as Curtis Lemay's Low Altitude Fire Bombing campaign was halted. The immense show of force convinced the Emperor of Japan and his Shogun advisors to seriously consider what they were putting their population through.

Any of the bombings in WWII were acts of "Total War", and though the outcome was the loss of a lot of civilian life. In a state of total war, civilians are a part of the war machine. War is the extension of politics by other means.

However, a deliberate attack against a targeted civilian population with the intent of inducing fear and terror is a completely different thing. 9/11 is by and large a bigger atrocity. Loss of human life is always an atrocity but the context matters. Millions of lives were saved by Hiroshima and Nagasaki, granted at the loss of tens of thousands. But the attacks on 9/11 did not augment a greater good, it was indiscriminate loss of life for no real purpose.

And for the record if you didn't get it from my reference to the fire bombing, the atomic bombs dropped on Japan pale in significance to the loss of civilian life attributed to both the Axis and Allies through their conventional bombing campaigns, so stop drawing these comparisons.

[–]phantoap 2 points3 points ago

Downvotes for this thoughtful comment? Really? You don't have to agree with him to see that this is sincere and considered. An up from me, at least.

[–]cogitase 2 points3 points ago

If one is to take issue with the bombings, I would focus squarely on the Nagasaki bombing. There are certainly arguments to be made that just a few days delay, for news of the Soviet invasion to reach the emperor and for decisions to be made, would have resulted in Japanese surrender without the need for a second atomic bombing.

[–]LynchMobMurdered 2 points3 points ago

I can see your argument there, but I think the communication between each party was pretty constant, not as instant as it would be today but still quick. I don't have the information to say whether or not we gave amble time. I know one push to end the war was to keep the Soviets from getting involved. My personal studies on WWII have focused on the European Theater.

But I would put more significance on the traditional bombings over the atomic as they killed far more people.

[–]PartyButton -2 points-1 points ago

there is truth to this but its not funny

[–]b33fSUPREME 2 points3 points ago

I'm pretty sure the Holocaust get's 1st place in the "Worst thing to happen to humanity" contest. If we even need to have a contest for something as ridiculous sounding as this meme. They're all horrible acts of death. 10 million lives and 1 life being taken are all horrible things to watch stripped away.

[–]Br0da -1 points0 points ago

Who said this was the worst thing to happen to humanity? What a karma-whoring, unintelligent, blanket statement that is.

[–]MrMo3244 0 points1 point ago

Fun fact the firebombing we did in japan actually caused more causalities than our little atom bombs.

[–]MisterCuddles 1 point2 points ago

I'm sure its already been said, but don't forget Nagasaki.

[–]iwtwe 1 point2 points ago

This isn't the day to be joking about it

[–]akali 0 points1 point ago

There's a reason why "No Easy Day" became a best seller. Osama has reached legendary status. How can one man accomplish so much? He destroyed 2 sky scrapers, killed 3,000 innocent Americans and then sat back and watched the strongest country in the world cower in fear and obsess over security. He sat and watched as that country over reacted and invaded 2 countries, resulting in the deaths of ANOTHER 2,000 Americans and COUNTLESS civilians.

He's a modern day super villain.

[–]PleaseDontStalkMe -1 points0 points ago

Self-loathing is healthy and I approve of this message.

[–]Stikking55 -1 points0 points ago

Also it saved more lives than if we would have invaded.

[–]I_TYPE_IN_ALL_CAPS 1 point2 points ago

ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA, THE COMBINED ATOMIC BOMBINGS INITIALLY KILLED ABOUT 150,000 - 250,000 PEOPLE.

ACCORDING TO A DISPLAY IN THE EDO-TOKYO MUSEUM, IN ONE NIGHT OF FIREBOMBING TOKYO, 100,000 PEOPLE WERE "BAKED, BOILED, OR BURNED ALIVE".

BOTH ARE AWFUL, BUT BE AWARE THAT, IN TERMS OF DEATHS, THE ATOMIC BOMBS WERE LIKELY DWARFED BY OTHER ACTS.

[–]Dubbys 0 points1 point ago

Slaughtered 21 million Native American... Thinks the Holocaust was the worlds largest genocide.

And doesn't even teach it in schools!

[–]emilade -1 points0 points ago

Upvote for you, sir.

[–]annyev -1 points0 points ago

Why weren't the Japanese hunted like the Nazi's for war crimes? Look what they did to prisoners of war.

[–]sam_lip 0 points1 point ago

Shit like this is always way too black and white for me -_-

[–]sam_lip 0 points1 point ago

It's always this or that. Red vs. Blue. Push vs. Pull. Like shut up. This is getting nothing done. Proving you're "right" (I doubt will ever happen, seeing how one always believes they are right) will change nothing in the world. People will keep killing. THAT'S IT. Go ahead. Try to change that. I would love to see you succeed. But just know you aren't the first. Furthermore, you might even do more good than bad.

That being said, leaving comments/opinions regarding emotionally-charged events like this are best kept to your self. I understand not all of you speak out like that, but I'm speaking more to the few who do.

[–]H0SSM4N 0 points1 point ago

I was just going to write, "lol" but then I realized I'd get downvoted for adding irrelevant content to a thread. So I guess I'll say, I can imagine that to people who lost their best friends, their children, and parents; to them it may certainly seem that it was the worst thing to happen to humanity, because well, our humanities are the things we hold close to us; our lovers, our friends, our family, even the parks we take our kids to, to watch them play and grow. These things make up our existence and for many of us we don't get to see the world beyond our little plot of land. So I guess I'm saying, instead of hating on people who mourn the loss of their humanity, their loved ones.. be grateful that you have seen so much more of this world and witnessed so much more humanity than many of us will ever dream to know.

[–]LordXenu40 0 points1 point ago

and Nagasaki

[–]Trace41 1 point2 points ago

It's not like we went and bombed them for no reason at all! They attacked pearl harbor!

[–]Pikazard 1 point2 points ago

Hiroshima was to end war (and they bombed Pearl Harbor)

[–]cptki112noobs 0 points1 point ago

We're all human. No one is perfect, and no one is lesser.

[–]annyev 0 points1 point ago

Why compare these incidents today?

[–]debash 0 points1 point ago

Fu

[–]debash 1 point2 points ago

Fuc you

[–]Turpinator17 0 points1 point ago

Hiroshima=war. 9/11=terrorism. Big difference.

[–]FartMagnet 0 points1 point ago

Worst attack to happen to the US

[–]mrbomax123 0 points1 point ago

I'm American and I don't Belevie it is the worst thing I do think it is terribull but not the worst

[–]MUTATEDSHOT 0 points1 point ago

Atleast we warned them with thousands and thousands of fliers we air dropped into the towns.

[–]risjinalosnvai 0 points1 point ago

We're all living in amerika-rammstein

[–]risjinalosnvai 0 points1 point ago

We're all living in amerika-rammstein

[–]overrunn 0 points1 point ago

I hope everyone realizes that we dropped leaflets stating we were going to bomb hiroshima

[–]twnadar 0 points1 point ago

Thank you for being a stereotypical asshole and assuming everyone in America thinks the same way. I can name worse things:mass genocide WW1, WW2, should I keep goin cause those are right off the top of my head I'm sure I could think of more.

[–]Legosheep 0 points1 point ago

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an act of war that resulted in the quickest end with the fewest casualties. The same number of people, if not more would have died were the war to continue. However some of the attrociaties that america has committed to other countries during the cold war set something of a double standard in terms of the tragedy of 9/11.

[–]Kittenfound 0 points1 point ago

I hope you're really fucking proud of yourself.

[–]ansimionescu 1 point2 points ago

Let me just drop this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

[–]FapFapFap07 1 point2 points ago

Scumbag USA also detonated explosives eleven years ago on September 11th, destroying 3 buildings, damaging one, and killing hundreds of american.

[–]rewrewsuh 0 points1 point ago

hey! that was done after giving them a chance to surrender or, "face complete and total destruction." we loosely told them how it was gonna be. and the japanese had pearl harbor and the bataan death march on their hands already.