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[–]VerticalEvent 129 points130 points ago

Just to nitpick, but the Samsung F700 was announced a month after the iPhone (iPhone was announced in January 2007, while the F700 was announced February 2007) . Likely, both products were being developed independent of each other.

[–]rb2k 51 points52 points ago

And to add another thing that just isn't true about this picture:
The "homescreen" of the M610i isn't the home screen, it's the menu screen.

The actual 'home' screen that shows up when you don't click on anything looks like this

It has 4 icons and 3 button like thingies. It also doesn't allow you to swipe between screens.

[–]Kyoraki 3 points4 points ago

The simple icon grid implementation on Samsung's android phones is also a menu though, yet is perfectly ripe for Apple to claim infringement.

[–]DOWN_VOTE_MY_OPINION 3 points4 points ago

But Samsung's TouchWiz UI look alot like iOS. Especially the icons. (touchWiz on the left, iOS on the right) http://www.telix.pl/images/gal/4674/touchwiz-ios.jpg

Im very "pro" android, but you cant say its not similar. Just my opinion.

[–]RandomFrenchGuy 2 points3 points ago

Since Apple is blabbering about the application list on the Samsung phones and not their home screens (which doesn't show a list of icons but more typically a bunch of widgets and a few icons as Android phones typically do), the comparison still seems adequate to me.

[–]_xiphiaz 6 points7 points ago

How does that keyboard even work?

[–]Merinovich 14 points15 points ago

You see, you push the buttons, and then some signal is sent to some motherboard that processes the information and then reenacts your command.

[–]steviesteveo12 12 points13 points ago

It's literally magic.

[–]Merinovich 5 points6 points ago

Almost magnets

[–]DublinItUp 15 points16 points ago

I had the F700, it was literally the worst phone I've ever owned in my entire life. Good thing Samsung stepped up their game, the Galaxy S3 is amaaazing.

[–]n3onfx 20 points21 points ago

The first LG Prada is a better example.

[–]coppersink 5 points6 points ago

I had that! Scratched so easily.

[–]throwaway_yep_yep 3 points4 points ago

Another inaccuracy, and this one isn't just nitpicking:

The picture of the application that Siri supposedly "copied" was a picture of the application AFTER Siri was released. The application copied Siri, not vice versa. That is very misleading to say the least.

On the topic of "idea" stealing: Ideas mean very little without implementation. Stealing the implementation is just as bad as stealing the concept. Apple may not have invented the "concept" of many of its products, but it certainly created successful "implementations" of them that other companies have continued to try to steal.

[–]td_cbcs 3 points4 points ago

Agreed! They don't refer to release dates. It should be a chart of patent applications dates.

[–]flexnerwinterstein 2 points3 points ago

I'm assuming that Samsung could have taken a peek at what Apple were doing? Since Samsung manufactured their parts?

I'm not sure about how feasible that is, though...

(I assure you, I'm no apple fanboy, just sharing my thoughts :P)

[–]chiropter -4 points-3 points ago

Likely, Samsung saw design intelligence that Apple was making some new Ipod with a big screen and rounded corners, and copied it. That happens a lot. Honestly, Samsung and others have made a number of products that attempt to give the impression that they are Iphones, not 'a smartphone.'

I'm not saying Apple is worshipful and never copies but they are copied a lot. They implement before others do, and in novel ways, even if the design concept has been done before.

Sorry, but Apple invented an implementation of the PC that worked and basically created the GUI PC industry. They were innovators in a number of other areas. They created the touchscreen smartphone market, and the tablet market. Just because they can be accused of hypocrasy in some areas doesn't mean they never innovated.

[–]evilarhan 4 points5 points ago

With regard to GUI, I have just one word to say: Xerox.

[–]Kyoraki 3 points4 points ago

Sorry, but Apple invented an implementation of the PC that worked and basically created the GUI PC industry.

You mean took an implementation of the PC that worked from rival company Xerox, and claimed they invented it all along.

Apple never innovated. They just took an idea that someone else made, and marketed it better.

[–]VerticalEvent 5 points6 points ago

A Korean design patent for this black, rectangular, round-cornered phone was filed by Samsung in December 2006 prior to the release of the image of the iPhone[3] but after the release of the HTC TyTn which it resembles with its rectangular design and slide out keyboard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_SGH-F700

So, no, the initial designs of F700 were not influenced by the iPhone's announcement.

[–]chiropter 1 point2 points ago

"release of the image of the iPhone"

Are you aware there is a massive cottage industry devoted to figuring out what Apple is up to before they announce it?

[–]evilarhan 2 points3 points ago

Why do you use the phrase "cottage industry"?

[–]kylegarchar 93 points94 points ago

If I'm not mistaken, it's because Samsung engineers were directed to create models that confuse consumers. From an internal memo ---

“Influential figures outside the company come across the iPhone, and they point out that ‘Samsung is dozing off.’ All this time we’ve been paying all our attention to Nokia, and concentrated our efforts on things like Folder, Bar, Slide,” Shin wrote. “Yet when our UX is compared to the unexpected competitor Apple’s iPhone, the difference is truly that of Heaven and Earth. It’s a crisis of design.”

[–]kemenaran 35 points36 points ago

This will probably get buried at this point, but…

You're right, we can see similarities on this document. Previous concepts, previous ideas. Inspirations.

This document has also its share of fallacies. First by making comparison on non-iPhone products: who cares if the iPod ads were inspired by something else? It creates a feeling of "Apple copies too!", but it has nothing to do with the point. Then by mixing inspiration and implementation. Come one, look at the first picture, the Ericsson with the grid of icons. Can you say this looks like iOS? There is an idea, but iOS looks vastly different (and better), and everyone knows it. The biggest fallacy is failing to show actual Samsung designs. You can show an Ericsson grid of icons, then an iOS grid of icons. Now present a Samsung grid of icons. Which are more similar one to each other?

Of course the first iPhone was a product of its time. Nothing comes out of the blue. And of course the iOS notification system is almost a copy of the Android one (no excuse for this). And obviously Apple designers look at what others made, steal ideas, make them better or worse, or sometimes copy them blatantly.

But IMO, Samsung deserves what it got because it obviously copied a whole product. Not some ideas, not some inspirations, not one design — but the whole lot. The subtle entanglement of different items and design sources that makes a coherent product. The kind of design that seems obvious afterwards, but that nobody came up with before. With separate items, yes. Not with the whole lot. It makes all the difference in the world.

I understand that technically, Samsung was convinced on arguable terms. I don't like software patents or design trademarks (even if the notion of "trade-dress" makes a bit more sense to me).

But for me, the patents were just tools in this case. Tools to condemn a rip-off. An attempt to do a blatant copy. I don't like the idea of using a law (patent law) to condemn another behavior (ripping-off a product). But maybe sometimes that's what you got to do.

And I think (and hope) that no other product that is somewhat different from iOS will get a patent-attack because it implements pinch-to-zoom. If the overall product is different, who cares if it implement some patented ideas. But if the whole product is a copy, then patents are the tools of our time that can be fired in this case (Hopefully, at some point, we won't need bogus patents for this).

[–]el_matt 16 points17 points ago

Your coherent argument gets an upvote, but I take issue with your conclusion that Samsung copied "a whole product."

It may just be that I don't have the imagination myself to invent a new smartphone design, but it seems to me that the design characteristics of the iPhone and of the Samsung models in question are quintessentially smartphone. It's a bit like someone being able to patent something "round" and claiming that anyone who builds a car has to pay them damages for all the wheels involved, or being able to patent something "sharp" and suing everyone who's ever made a knife. I don't know if this tallies with the facts, but it's my take on the situation.

[–]andateofit 5 points6 points ago

You can't patent look-and-feel. The verdict against Samsung will be thrown out in the higher courts.

[–]threeseed 4 points5 points ago

I don't get why people defend Samsung. They have a long history of blatantly ripping off competitors.

Is that what everyone wants more crappy knockoffs inside of companies taking risks (Microsoft/Nokia/Palm) to do something different and unique.

[–]t3h 7 points8 points ago

I don't get why people defend Samsung.

Because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and there's a lot of Apple haters.

[–]misterxy89 2 points3 points ago

Apple hater reporting in.

[–]kampfy3 5 points6 points ago

Let's go to some Mac forums and call them idiots and point out that we can build better gaming PCs for half of the cost of a MacBook Air!

TASK FORCE ASSEMBLE

[–]zaqmlp 28 points29 points ago

I am sorry, but the Samsung Galaxy S III isn't really a crappy knock off, they did it better if anything.

[–]threeseed 12 points13 points ago

100% agree.

And wouldn't you know but it came about as a result of Samsung going back to the drawing board and designing a phone without trying to just knockoff the competition. And it is the best thing they've done to date.

[–]SilentSigns 2 points3 points ago

this argument is the equivalent of Toyota making and selling Porsche knockoffs until they have enough experience and money to make their own high end sports car

[–]Say_what_you_see 9 points10 points ago

Yeah my samsung TV totally plays all the SAME tv as the other ones in my house, those bastards have been doing it rite under my nose!

[–]zaqmlp 1 point2 points ago

I thought the lawsuit was about specific patents, most of which shouldn't have been patented due to prior art, is there anything wrong with copying something that the other person stole as well (assuming the original person is ok with it)?

[–]Kalahan6 3 points4 points ago

I thought the lawsuit was about specific patents

It was about trade dress AND specific patents.

most of which shouldn't have been patented due to prior art

Stop listening only to Samsung's lawyers. If you would have read the patents from Apple you would know prior art wasn't an issue.

is there anything wrong with copying something that the other person stole as well

Apple didn't stole their trade dress from anyone.

[–]DemDude 8 points9 points ago

You are very misinformed. Those are the "facts" reddit has fabricated, whereas in a little place called reality, prior art only had to be considered for very few of the patents Samsung infringed upon, and could be ruled out because the patents were different enough. Reddit would have you believe that Apple has never filed a legitimate patent or invented anything, it's just a retarded, biased circlejerk. Especially /r/technology.

[–]Kyoraki 1 point2 points ago

How on earth did you get to that conclusion? Nothing on there is mentioned about deliberately coping the iPhone, but instead using it as a inspiration for new devices instead of following Nokia.

If we go by that basis, then Apple deliberately copied Sony when they distributed memos to engineers saying that they should take inspiration from Sony's devices.

[–]k736ra4kil8haxvaogmu 1 point2 points ago

Please don't cite any sources, please don't!

[–]Mindstarx 232 points233 points ago

You will be downvoted simply because of the Apple typo.

[–]tinyroom 79 points80 points ago

That's not a typo, it's a well-known strategy to make people comment on the typo

[–]RemTar 17 points18 points ago

[–]Yoy0YO 0 points1 point ago

[–]joerund 1 point2 points ago

How can this poster be made in 2008 according to the copyright info on the bottom when I had it on my wall in 1995

[–]bryntheskits[S] 75 points76 points ago

[–]LordBenners 49 points50 points ago

Applyiens

[–]jstarlee -1 points0 points ago

I'm glad to see this guy back.

[–]raxxd 3 points4 points ago

it obviously worked.

[–]electricmice -1 points0 points ago

i guess it is well known amongst master trolls. people always fall for it though. for the longest time, i spelled fagget and made people use the fact that i spelled it wrong as a comeback.

[–]ruutanansissi 20 points21 points ago

I never even noticed. Probably my eval wasn't good enough.

[–]devilinblue22 2 points3 points ago

I think it's the sheer volume of typos we see on reddit, my brain just tunes them out now.

[–]salkz 1 point2 points ago

It's meant to be like that. Lets call it "cute-sarcasm".

[–]AnnoyinImperialGuard 3 points4 points ago

He needs to apple more.

[–]NotSafeForShop 5 points6 points ago

Those downvotes have been countered because: anti-Apple=r/Technology Front Page

For a while there we had cut down on the fanboyism, but it's been pouring out from everywhere the last couple months.

[–]tripinbalz 2 points3 points ago

I just can't fathom how he accidentally hit "y" instead of "e"

[–]devkrev 10 points11 points ago

autocorrect on his iphone

[–]tripinbalz 3 points4 points ago

Meta

[–]usedtowork 1 point2 points ago

you think he'll be downvoted for dissing Apple?

how's your first day of reddit so far?

[–]JosephBartels 3 points4 points ago

It's actually the reverse, typos will get you utvoted.

[–]Minim4c -4 points-3 points ago

"Maybe if he had bought an Apple computer he wouldn't be prone to typos." - Apple Owner Logic

[–]bkm190 9 points10 points ago

Back when Obama was doing his IamA someone I know pointed out the fact that he was using a macbook in his photo as 'proof' that he must 'get' it (I have no idea what it was that he was supposed to 'get'). Till then, I never really thought people in real life took this whole mac/windows thing seriously.

[–]solistus 23 points24 points ago

Most of us don't. I worked for Apple for a year, and at the time the only working Apple product I owned was a 2006 iPod. Had a Windows PC at home and an Android phone (still do, though I've added a new iPad to the mix). My iOS-using work buddies and I would jokingly give each other shit for any random cell phone-related annoyances we had, but there was never any animosity. Google, which the internet is convinced is at war with Apple, has probably the second-highest rate of Mac use among its employees in the industry, after Apple itself of course. Even Microsoft is a pretty OSX and iOS-friendly environment nowadays, from what I hear. It's mostly just hormone-addled teenage nerds on the interwebs keeping the platform wars alive, methinks. Most of the rest of us grew up and started using our tech products to get work done rather than remind ourselves why we are better, smarter, and more attractive than people who buy similar competing products.

[–]pyalot 0 points1 point ago

How's that prophecy stuff working out for you?

[–]excommunicated 0 points1 point ago

He can't type Apple... it's copyrighted.

[–]conanabanana 0 points1 point ago

He didn't want to pay royalties to use the Apple name. He will be sued nonetheless for using letters in an order similar to Apple.

[–]myeyesdilate 74 points75 points ago

I think Apple bought the company that makes Siri so it's not 'borrowed' or licensed. I believe they did this to avoid anyone else being able to buy a license to use the software.

The thing about Apple is they took all these mediocre design ideas and turned them into something that works really well in terms of design. Then they took 10 steps back by putting glass on the back. Idiots.

[–]loftyrama 27 points28 points ago

but.... but... i like the glass on the back!

[–]I_am_salad 5 points6 points ago

Imagine all the warranties.

[–]evilarhan 1 point2 points ago

You may say I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one...

[–]OhThereYouArePerry 3 points4 points ago

The glass on the back is nice, as long as you aren't a butterfingers.

[–]Daniel_Laixer 3 points4 points ago

Say the same when it's all cracked :)

[–]Beau_Vine 5 points6 points ago

That's when Apple likes it there.

[–]alskdjf2 3 points4 points ago

Yes. The company that sells luxury articles really hopes that their products will break easily and the customers have to come in for a cheap fix that they often comp. Explain again to me how apple likes that or did I misunderstand your comment?

[–]LnDHaze 1 point2 points ago

The more often somebody is in a store the better the odds are they will buy something.

[–]OhThereYouArePerry 1 point2 points ago

Am I the only person that doesn't drop my phone?

[–]lewis_gentle 2 points3 points ago

Apple didn't buy nuance and the glass design is nice in my opinion, Much better than the plastic feel of the prior phones.

[–]JosephBartels 2 points3 points ago

I like the glass actually. But, it's not a child's toy, that's for sure. Glass is not a children's play material.

[–]Jeeebs 0 points1 point ago

Such things as Exclusive Licences exits. They did it because they thought it would be cheaper to do this than licence for a long term.

[–]kristianur 0 points1 point ago

I think 'bought' is a key term in all the other cases as well.

[–]Kadajski 0 points1 point ago

The fact that Apple may have polished a few ideas doesn't change the fact that they weren't original ideas on apples part.

As for Siri, I never did understand the hype over it, it is nothing original in any way. It really is just wolfram alpha type logic(I believe they even use wolfram alpha) + voice recognition? Not too sure what the big fuss is about.

[–]Echelon64 41 points42 points ago

Can someone explain this to me? If it's true, how did Apple win anything?

Let us see:

A faceless South Korean conglomerate versus an "innovative" and well recognized American brand, with an "iconic" leader, being sued in America.

I wonder who won that battle.

[–]trukapu 4 points5 points ago

At least they had their day in court.

Samsung almost certainly had the South Korean government block the original iPhone from South Korea for two years (to give them a chance to clone the product that they were manufacturing, I suppose).

South Korea (owned by the large South Korean corporations) is very protectionist like this, and it seems they always get away with it. Obama was quite vocal about this when he was a senator.

And Samsung should be very happy that they are faceless. Some of the shit that Samsung and the owning family have gotten up to is disgusting.

[–]Dick_Lovejoy 9 points10 points ago

Go on...

[–]misterxy89 2 points3 points ago

Well, we're waiting..

[–]Kyoraki 0 points1 point ago

The fact that Apple have been laughed out of court around the world speaks volumes for just how wrong this case was. The way the American justice system treats foreign entities is disgusting, and needs a major overhaul.

[–]SatchelBuck 33 points34 points ago

This just makes me think that Steve Jobs was a brilliant business man. Kinda reminds me of Thomas Edison or Buckminster Fuller. Great thieves that will be remembered for all the things they didn't invent.

[–]Smacktastics 24 points25 points ago

ruthless business man

[–]Deadbabywalrus 25 points26 points ago

Nine times out of ten it's the same thing.

[–]megaman78978 6 points7 points ago

I want to add that I feel Thomas Edison was 100 times douchier than Steve Jobs.

[–]falcun 4 points5 points ago

Can't lie though, they did do most of that stuff better.

[–]nwatson 4 points5 points ago

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluation-Report-on-S1-iPhone

This is an internal Samsung document. Read all 132 pages. Actually do it. Regardless of what you think of patent law or the conduct of the jury, I imagine that things like this are largely how Apply won something.

[–]El_Sonador 5 points6 points ago

None of these top-comments actually answers OP's question.All the actual answers are at the bottom and all the karma-hunters are at the top. Reddit, I am dissapoint.

[–]Ryan2468 2 points3 points ago

That usually happens in the comment threads in big subreddits like this one. You have to really seek out interesting comments.

[–]Ryan2468 4 points5 points ago

Why is this annotated macro image crap spreading to /r/technology now?

[–]thatusernameisal 120 points121 points ago

Because jury was retarded.

[–]punnyverypunny 56 points57 points ago

Honestly for the Samsung trial it probably was. As saturated as the market is with Apple products, fan base ect its almost impossible to have not heard about them or for most own atleast one of their products. So I'd say that even though it was supposedly a fair trial unless they used old ladies for the entire jury Apple came in with the win before it even started. Also rounded edge rectangles can be copyrighted? I used those all the time in MS Paint years before Apple can I sue and say I own the shape too? It makes no sense.

[–]spermracewinner 45 points46 points ago

You're right. Apple won on ignorance. When Steve Jobs died they thanked him for having invented the MP3 player.

[–]Vorketh 3 points4 points ago

Which always makes me cringe... I was listening to a whole HOUR (32 MBs) of MP3s (had to switch up the album at home every now and again for variety) on this perfect piece of hardware (/s) a year before the first iPod ever came out.

[–]cant_read_maps 4 points5 points ago

I'm not 100% sure the rounded thing is accurate/true I just remember reading it somewhere and was hoping someone could confirm or deny the truth of it..

We had a joke at work that the idea behind jury selection was going to a public place and getting everyone to hold up their mobile phones, and picking out Blackberry owners..

Samsung stood no chance, and I think the markets going to be worse off for it, I also recall reading somewhere that small time inventors are now more afraid of patenting, for the life of me I can't find the source though.. I'll edit if I do.

[–]punnyverypunny 8 points9 points ago

The blackberry joke had me in tears. Just think how they would have felt to be relevant again.

[–]WhatsInANayme 12 points13 points ago

What happens if you eat a BlackBerry? You get BlueTooth.

Take some more of them tears.

[–]ghostofmybrain 3 points4 points ago

http://i.imgur.com/pHLBC.png

Even reddit itself liked your joke enough to give you some extra karma.

[–]Asynonymous 2 points3 points ago

We had a joke at work that the idea behind jury selection was going to a public place and getting everyone to hold up their mobile phones, and picking out Blackberry owners..

As I've never paid much attention to the different mobile producers what does this joke imply?

[–]cant_read_maps 3 points4 points ago

Since the trial was between Samsung and Apple, two very large, and notable companies, it was highly unlikely that they would be able to find a jury who didn't prefer at least one of these companies for whatever reason.

By picking out the owners of Blackberry mobiles, you're assuming they dislike Samsung and Apple equally and would be the only fair jury members.

[–]Beau_Vine 5 points6 points ago

Samsung trial was a different thing altogether:

http://www.project-disco.org/intellectual-property/a-jury-of-your-peers-apple-v-samsung-jury-foreman-also-holds-questionable-tech-patents-too/

It's nice to have a man on the inside, not only directing works of jury but also being their main source of context on the information they receive.

[–]k736ra4kil8haxvaogmu 17 points18 points ago

The idea to use a jury for these kind of trials is retarded.

[–]Antarioo 16 points17 points ago

the idea of a jury is retarded.....it devolves into deception and emotion instead of fact and proof way to quickly

[–]LnDHaze 3 points4 points ago

It was samsung's choice to use a jury.

[–]gamercowboy 2 points3 points ago

The jury found conclusive evidence of willful infringement.

"The e-mails that went back and forth from Samsung execs about the Apple features that they should incorporate into their devices was pretty damning to me"

Also, to be found guilty of infringement, the patent must have been violated in every way. Specifically, the pinch-to-zoom patent, as it has been called, can be easily circumvented but Samsung did not.

None of this is to say that I'm in favor of the verdict but it seems that the case was clear. We do need patent reform but it's absurd to blame the jurors for following their instructions here.

[–]Archer007 0 points1 point ago

[–]Kalahan6 1 point2 points ago

Disagree completely.

None of this post doesn't make any sense. Apple never clamed to invented most of those things. Those points are about trade dress.

The patents of the trial didn't had prior art. Anyone that would have read Apple's patent in question would know that. So did the jury that actually did looked in to that as they stated after the trial in interviews.

And the jury found the evidence of Samsung copying Apple's trade dress overwhelming. Samsung's internal design documents that stated how they should copy the iPhone specifically. Internal mangers of Samsung, Google and other externals warning Samsung that their products resembled too much of Apple. Internal documents that described the goal of the GS2 was to make it look very similar to the iPhone to convince a potential costumer that the device was just as capable as the iPhone.

The latest Samsung vs Apple trial was actually the only trial that made sense. Where the patent system worked and protected those that deserved it.

[–]zlkv 58 points59 points ago

"Good artists copy, great artists steal." - Steve Jobs

[–]hypermirage 86 points87 points ago

He even stole the quote. From Picasso, no less.

[–]matteyes 36 points37 points ago

Actually, it's a badly paraphrased quote from TS Eliot.

edit: Here we go:

"One of the surest tests [of the superiority or inferiority of a poet] is the way in which a poet borrows. Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion. A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language, or diverse in interest." Eliot, T.S., “Philip Massinger,” The Sacred Wood, New York: Bartleby.com, 2000.

I got it from here.

[–]hypermirage 5 points6 points ago

Nice. I disagree, though, on one point. I think it's actually quite a good reduction of a cumbersome and meandering thought into a tighter, more biting truism.

[–]Superneedles 17 points18 points ago

This pretty much proves that Steve Jobs was a 9gagger.

[–]Beau_Vine 25 points26 points ago

Which in turn proves that 9fags are cancer.

... too soon?

[–]bigfunkychiken 2 points3 points ago

No, not at all.

[–]0x1b8b1690 17 points18 points ago

I would expect after an hour someone would have answered your question with a non-sarcastic response, but since that doesn't seem to be the case, here's what I've read about the trial. In post-trial interviews with the jury, it was revealed that the foreman was a patent-holder himself and saw the trial as an opportunity to send a message to patent-infringers everywhere so he could protect the little guys out there. When the jury went to delibrate, they said the arguments about prior art, a valid defense and Samsung's entire case, was slowing them down and taking too long, so they decided to ignore that stack of evidence entirely to speed things up. They also admit they ignored the judge's instructions to not allocate punitive damages but to only award the estimated lost revenue due to the infringement, again at the prompting of the over-zealous foreman. They even apparently miscalculated their results and had to be sent back to correct their figures, which they messed up the second time as well because they were rushing to get out of there faster. So the answer to your question is there were 11 tired, dispassionate people that didn't want to be there who all listened to one enthusiastic guy that they thought sounded like he knew what he was talking about. Think "12 Angry Men" but replace "angry" with "bored" and "men" with "people that want to go home".

If it wasn't 5 am and I wasn't on my smart-phone I'd find the article for you, but a quick google search should turn it up.

[–]road_to_nowhere 5 points6 points ago

Because it references hardware release dates, not dates that patents were issued. Do you think Apple waited until the day the first iPhone was released to apply for those patents? Of course not, they were applied for and issued years prior as the concepts were developed/stolen/thought of, etc. That's just the issue with this pointless and misguided graphic. There are a bunch of complicated reasons why Apple won and they aren't all legitimate it would seem.

[–]thewileyone 51 points52 points ago

Apple won in the US courts cause it's a US company. Plain and simple.

Yeah, I said it.

[–]TTLeave 5 points6 points ago

I agree. It's worth noting though that at a similar trial in South Korea the judge awarded damages to both parties for copyright infringement, essentially saying 'your both as bad as each other'

Personally I think this is a better approach, these companies should be discouraged from long legal battles where only the lawyers getting paid will win. I also think it would be better for consumers if we just let market share decide who has the better product.

Also the US patent office basically saying 'yeah we'll patent anything and if the patent is wrong the patent holders will sort it out in court'

While the courts attitude is: 'well if you got a patent then it must be legit' This is obviously a severely floored process.

[–]threeseed 0 points1 point ago

Samsung is being investigated by South Korea courts. Plain and simple.

[–]GeekBrownBear 2 points3 points ago

And they outsource all production to China and insist on stating "Designed in California." It's rather douchey in my opinion :/

edit: Who cares where it was designed (I know I don't.) The design is based on the team of people, not the country. Manufacture has a big impact on the local economy.

[–]Azartic 5 points6 points ago

Yeah. . Well fuck it I still like my iPhone.

[–]admiralkittens 10 points11 points ago

I fucking hate apple.....

-sent from my iPhone

[–]zaqmlp 5 points6 points ago

If anyone is interested, the patents involved were:

US7844915 - Pinch to zoom

US7469381 - Bounceback scrolling

US7864163 - Tap to zoom

USD604305S - The UI/iOS?

USD618677S - iPhone

USD593087S - iPhone?

USD504889S - iPad

[–]rahmad 8 points9 points ago

correct me someone, but patents do not lock down ideas. they lock down the specific implementation of an idea.

i haven't seen the evidence in the apple v. samsung case, and i'm not an apple sympathizer, far from it, but i am not sure 'rounded corners' is something that is patentable, unless it is documented much more discretely, and that is where the contention lies.

[–]henbenley 2 points3 points ago

It's not about when it is released to the public, but when they apply/are granted a patent for it.

One can have patents, but never actually have a product and still win in a court of law.

[–]GaProgMan 0 points1 point ago

Regardless of whether they invented anything or not, the lawsuits are about who patented it first. In most cases Apple did. Whether this makes them a patent troll or not is for better minds than mine to figure out.

[–]MF_Kitten 2 points3 points ago

They know how to play the game. And they do it well. Less experienced players succumb.

Apple is a ferocious ninja warrior in the industry.

[–]JoshSilver 2 points3 points ago

Am I the only one who really doesn't give a fuck?

[–]sakredfire 2 points3 points ago

This is stupid. Its not any individual feature that made the iPhone a hit, its the integration of those features in a user-friendly, aesthetically pleasing device.

No one invents in a vacuum. Innovation is an iterative process. Before siri, iPhones did have some basic voice commands. Before that, lots of handsets had voice dialing support. The great thing about Siri is how great it is at natural language processing. This is really hard to do. The technology behind siri was a DARPA project before it was commercialized.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10/siri-darpa-iphone/

Smartphones were pretty terrible before the iPhone came along. Does anyone really need to spell out why?

[–]jaapdownunder 2 points3 points ago

I'll get downvoted for this for sure, but what I understood is that the jury did look at the whole picture more than the individual components: apple put a device out that was focused on simplicity and userfriendlyness that was wildly popular, Samsung as reaction tried to get as close as possible to the apple design (looks of phone, UI, ...) to win people over. It's not about an individual element, but blatantly copying the whole phone concept.

Given what I read about the trail on sites as arstechnica, I'd have to agree with the jury on this one. But... I think it's time for a revamp of the patent system, disallowing software patents and shortening tech patent rights to only 5-10 years, and forcing the patent holder to actively use the patent to keep it valid, so not just stock them. The Samsung/Motorola/Apple bickering is fun and all, they have billions to spend so I can't really care much about that, it's the power those big companies have over small developers and startups, that scare me more.

EDIT: I see kylegarchar has a good quote below that clarifies the reason the jury sided with Apple.

[–]icankillpenguins 7 points8 points ago

Apple's claim is that Samsung is making phones that directly imitate iPhone to confuse buyers. People that are not geeks don't know anything about operating systems, appstores and etc. They want an iphone because they saw an ad or one of their friends have one and they liked it or for any other reason they want to buy an iPhone. When they see very similar device that mimics all the functionality and look of the iPhone and it is little bit cheaper they go and buy it thinking it is an iPhone because for many people iPhone is not a device made by Apple, but it is a phone category, something like smartphone = iPhone.

These phones on the list can't be confused with an iPhone though individually they have some functions/aspects that are similar to these in iPhone.

TL:DR; Apple is suing for trade dress, patents are just the warfare used in the courtroom.

[–]plughxyzzy 5 points6 points ago

Because the law is more complicated than you can explain with a few pictures and a rage comic.

The financial and legal system that drives innovation is complicated and fragile. Apple claims they spent 5 years working on the iPhone, and then Samsung churned out their competing phone in 3 months? Either Apple is hiring idiots, Samsung is hiring geniuses, or Samsung copied Apple.

So what's the incentive for Apple to create something that took 5 years of R&D, if some Korean mob can just clone it without repercussion? That's where IP law kicks in. You can complain about it. Argue about it. Claim it stops innovation. But reality proves the opposite. We have companies investing huge amounts of money trying to create the Next Big Thing because they know IP law will protect their profits.

That's why this court case had to be decided in Apple's favour. Where would the money come from for R&D if investors knew that cloners and copycats were going to steal all the profits?

Because what stops a company creating a car that looks and works exactly like a BMW, but for half the price? Pretty much all cars have 4 wheels and an engine, so what's stopping them? It's because cars have 10s of 1000s of patents alone, in addition to copyright, trade dress, and design patents, that ensure BMW can invest billions into a new car design and still turn a profit.

You might think Apple is "harming" the industry. I say they revitalised it, and Apple deserve to be rewarded for setting this amazing new direction in smartphones. Samsung? They've never done anything interesting. They are just like the Chinese copycats. Cheap knockoff rubbish.

[–]Kalahan6 5 points6 points ago

You want an honest answer?

Most of the things you describe in your example are about trade dress, not about things Apple supposedly invented.

Apple never claimed to invent the homescreen, Siri (everybody know they bought that company), icons or notification center. No one claims that Apple invented all that.

The Samsung vs Apple trial was about protecting their trade dress and their patents. To make sure the products from competitors where distinguished enough from what Apple created.

The slide to unlock that existed previously from the iPhone doesn't falls under Apple's patent. Prior-art is not an issue. If you would read the slide-to-unlock patent you would know that. It are small differences but they matter legally. I also have never heard Apple saying they invented slide-to-unlock.

The F700 is actually used as an example of how to design a phone different from the iPhone. It doesn't have a horiztontally centered screen or metal border (Like the GS2). Also the OS looks entirely different and has an own unique style.

Two more things:

The quote from Steve Jobs that states Apple is shameless about stealing great ideas was about the Xerox GUI. They sure as hell copied the basic idea but gave their own unique implementation. Many people seem to forget that. It's like Google saying, hey let's make a smarthpone OS too like the iPhone. That is not a problem for no one. What matters to Apple was is the implementation. Are you going to use a homescreen with rounded corners, a 5 by 4 grid of icons, with a dock underneath and swiping between pages? If you do that and a bunch of other things like the iPhone, Apple might have a problem with that because it copied the iPhone's implementation.

The second quote about Steve Jobs going thermonuclear on Android was made when Jobs found out the development from Android shifted from a blackberry clone to something very similar to the iPhone. This happened during iPhone development and when Google's Eric Schmidt was on the board of Apple.

Just giving context here.

[–]Elmonotheczar 1 point2 points ago

I upvoted because it's your cake day, but don't pull this shit again because I truly and sincerely don't give a fuck. Next time it's downvotes sir, you have been RES tagged.

[–]cr0ft 8 points9 points ago

Because patents, that's why! Copyright! Icons! Umm... Apple! Apple! Apple!

Hmm, I don't think I'm selling it nearly as well as Apple's lawyers did.

[–]leonox 5 points6 points ago

It's far from over. Samsung is winning in the international courts. This will go to appeal and it will be many years before anything comes of it.

With Google joining the party using its Motorola patents, just sit back and watch it play out.

[–]balrok 1 point2 points ago

The motorola patents are a completely different story and started way before the apple-samsung conflict started.. So I guess it won't have any influence on this matter

[–]threeseed 2 points3 points ago

Actually Samsung/Motorola may be winning the fight against Apple but losing the war.

Both are being investigated by the EU, ITC, South Korea for anticompetitive behavior in abusing FRAND obligations.

[–]AshaVahishta 6 points7 points ago

They're just picking random stuff that existed in similar form before Apple used it. Not related to the case at all.

And, to be honest, pretty much all of them sucked before Apple did it. That's what people don't seem to get: Pretty much everything Apple does existed in some form or another already, but it sucks. Apple puts the effort in to make it usable, and that's the difference.

Edit: Jesus, people. Did you not read this:

This isn't a judgement on whether or not Apple should have won the case, just a pointing out of how retarded that image is.

Knee-jerk downvoting by Apple haters I can take, I don't care about meaningless, virtual internet points. But don't attribute to me opinions that you haven't seen me write and then use that to get whatever it is that's bothering you off your chest. That's called a strawman argument.

[–]First_thing 9 points10 points ago

I'd like to see your logic applied to copyright infringement of movies.

"Well the movie had this annoying little black spot in the corner in this scene, I fixed it and now it's better, therefore it's my movie now, give me all your cash!"

[–]petorius 31 points32 points ago

You could apply exactly the same logic to the Samsung/Apple dispute. You can argue that iPhones suck and Samsung put in the effort to make a great phone. Preference of product has no place in plagiarism arguments.

Apple are suing Samsung for copying their designs yet this image shows how those designs were already available on the market. The image is perfectly relevant as prior products are capable of making a patent invalid.

[–]TTLeave 2 points3 points ago

prior products should be capable of making a patent invalid.

Unfortunately not in this trial, The jury decided to disregard prior art so that they could focus on the main point of the trial; whether Samsung infringed a patent held by Apple.

Turned out the jury foreman also had a bunch of dodgy patents and didn't want to risk raising the issue of how fucked up the US patent system is.

[–]O-Face 9 points10 points ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the argument is about prior art and thus voided copyrights, patents, ect. Not about who did what better.

[–]Jmk420 0 points1 point ago

You really don't know how patent laws work eh?

Also Apple is more of a brand they take stuff that they think would work well on a phone pay royalties and put it together in a more user-friendly (easier for the public)

In this game its all about patents and how its ran.

Anyways these are all stupid arguments and why can`t we just use what we choose and not bash other products because you use a Galaxy or an iPhone

[–]nvri 1 point2 points ago

Yes, that Steve Jobs was an emotionally unstable choleric with a pretty black-and-white view of the world is common knowledge now. His 'reality distortion field' is quite well known amongst most people who met him.

But there is a big difference about what is the goal and how it is actually achieved. Apple products are not successful because of what they do, but more because of how they do it.

I'll go through some of the items on that list you posted:

  • GUI Design: Ordering Icons in a matrix was not even new when that sony ericsson thing was developed. But from a design point of view it looks retarded. No white space, bad designed icons and I'm pretty sure there is no good feeling when navigating with these icons. I want to emphasize again, that it is not about the functionality itself but the look, feel and responsiveness of the device.

  • Product Design: Yes, there were similar designs. Nothing is completely new but always some sort of evolution. Claiming to have completely invented a new style is a very annoying habit of apple (since most of their designs are actually inspired by the german company braun). But there is a reason the iPhone is not made of plastic...

I think you get what I mean. I need to go, I'll elaborate further if needed, when I come back.

[–]Martin_Samuelson 4 points5 points ago

Jesus Christ this is the last straw, I am unsubscribing from this subreddit so this shit stops coming on my front page

[–]upvoteguy1 3 points4 points ago

aaaand steve jobs is dead so I guess he loses in the end.

[–]Splooshiba 2 points3 points ago

"many other stuff" cringe

you could have had "a lot of other stuff" or "many other things"

[–]Redherring01 2 points3 points ago

Hypocrisy! Hypocrisy everywhere!!

[–]BreakfastBob 3 points4 points ago

SO BRAVE!

[–]Indestructavincible 0 points1 point ago

Apple had a working iPad prototype with almost all of those things in 2003.

[–]RedditCannibal 0 points1 point ago

Blah blah Apple.. . . blah blah overpriced. . . blah blah theives. Literally Hitler.

[–]Fruit_is_Blind 10 points11 points ago

DAE hate App[le]?

[–]anarchyrabbit 3 points4 points ago

Blah blah Snapple.. . .blah blah tasty. . .blah blah refreshing. Literally Juice.

[–]Haasts_Eagle 0 points1 point ago

I've never heard of it before, but you've made me crave snapple.

What can I say? I'm a sucker for simple advertising.

[–]Ch4nc3 0 points1 point ago

same goes with the tablets.

[–]lukeman3000 -1 points0 points ago

Apple won something? WTF is going on ?

[–]James1o1o 1 point2 points ago

I just want to point out, just because a device was out before the iPhone or a feature, you have to remember, Apple might have had the patents for it a few years before a device.

[–]JSlim 0 points1 point ago

The iPhone puts all of those technologies in one simple, organized system.

[–]shaundunne 0 points1 point ago

Apple might not have invented anything, but they innovated on previous works that had failed. They also knew how to file/buy/licence patents. Unfortunately, it's patents that win in the end. Who invented the telephone? Alexander Graham Bell? Well, no, but he got the patent and along with it, the credit.

[–]snoogins1 -1 points0 points ago

This means nothing. Apple owns the patents to designs and feature so they own it. This is why they won the Samsung law suit and in the mean time have set an example of Samsung and I wouldn't be surprised to see the mobile market changes in the wake of this.

[–]soldierblue 1 point2 points ago

You're looking at the wrong patents and forgetting about all the trade dress stuff.

I'm not saying the whole mess wasn't moronic, but if you look at what the suit was concerning, it's pretty clear why Samsung lost.

[–]nixzero 0 points1 point ago

It would be awesome if Samsung made a trial board out of this .jpg and used it for their inevitable appeals.

[–]Krivvan 0 points1 point ago

As much as I may dislike the iPhone, the reason is that it 'incorporated' (or 'stolen') all those things into one device and marketed the hell out of it.

[–]crackbabyathletics 1 point2 points ago

Because pretty much everything you're "arguing" with that image is wrong and doesn't have anything to do with the case? I don't know why I expect people on Reddit to actually read anything involved with this, or even go through a few of the patents on trial or anything, but it'd be nice to not have to read this same regurgitated bullshit every few days.

While I do agree that the case was handled badly and will probably get a re-trial (and doubtless drag on for years), it's pretty obvious that Samsung at least heavily borrowed from Apple with a LOT of their recent stuff. "S-Voice" and other features that were seemingly magically implemented after they appeared on the iPhone, etc. Whether or not you personally feel they're right to do it or not isn't the question - a court of law is meant to decide that. However, I'm going to get downvoted to hell here because Apple are just big bullies, the court system sucks, the judge was biased and Samsung is a bastion of innovation, right guys?

[–]blueberry_nutsack -1 points0 points ago

I don't care how much of the iPhone is stolen, I still think it's a beautiful product. But when Apple shits their pants over shit like that "slide to unlock" lawsuit I can't help but think lowly of the company.

[–]polar69 0 points1 point ago

Apple

[–]XAriFerrariX 0 points1 point ago

Needs more jpeg.

[–]HRMurray 0 points1 point ago

ANDROID NEVER PATENTED IT'S NOTIFICATION BAR. Stupid Android.

[–]shawnpeps -1 points0 points ago

I don't know why people care so much. It affects your lives in absolutely 0 ways.

[–]BreakingLosAngeles 1 point2 points ago

You misspelled the tittle, have a downvote ( just kidding)

[–]LostOctopus -1 points0 points ago

What's the point of this seriously? We always copy past creations and add to them to make future ones better. Just be grateful Apple came up with fantastic products everyone enjoy using.

[–]HEYGUIZ53 0 points1 point ago

This post literally gave me cancer.

[–]worldalpha_com 0 points1 point ago

By using spellcheck on all of its legal documents!

[–]anacche 1 point2 points ago

Same way Metallica beat Verve to Bittersweet Symphony. Copyright and IP laws in general are screwy as hell at the moment.

[–]LWdkw 0 points1 point ago

Ok, the way I understand it:

What the case was about: Apple owns patents on these things. Patents mean that others are not allowed to use those technologies. Apparently Samsung used that anyway. That's why it lost.

What is weird about the whole thing: - Patents do not automatically go to the first one that does something. You have to register something and pay a lot of money. So it is possible that company A does something first but doesn't acquire a patent, and then company B does it too but does acquire the patent. If company C then uses it too, it has to pay company B, even though A did it first. - There is the prior art thing. Aka; did Samsung realize they were breaking a patent? Was there reason to believe they could have known about Apples stuff? Apparently the judges screwed up and didn't realize they should take that into account. - The whole thing with patents in software is completely screwed up. The way I see it, they are getting patents on the whole idea of making a hole in a wall to be able to walk through it (a door) instead of on a certain type of hinge. Which I personally think is wrong.

[–]steve98989 0 points1 point ago

Does anyone really care? I mean, come on, every day there's a number of posts bashing either Apple or Samsung. How does this affect us? Buy the phone you like, not the one the Internet tells you you should like.

[–]exclus1ve 0 points1 point ago

Either way the iPhone was great at a time (iPhone 2g). Now android came out and isn't looking back. I bought the first iPhone for $400 years ago. Now I'm on droid and never going back

[–]imwatchinu 0 points1 point ago

We're (The costumers) the winners, the competition between Apple & Samsung is in our favor, they do their best to provide to us the best stuffs the one wants to surpass the other . In addition the idea of "Copyrights" will be an obstacle 'cause there's no development without stealing /borrowing ideas from others. PS (Apple is mad 'cause Samsung starts getting the lead )

[–]itsjustausername 0 points1 point ago

Some ideas belong to mankind, not a cooperation. Im not an Apple fanboy nor an Android one but im tired of seeing posts like this.

Its like saying the moon belongs to America.

[–]awesome_sauce911 0 points1 point ago

The ideas Apple stole were years away from being developed and brought to the market. Without Apple's 'theft', we wouldn't have stuff like the GUI. On the other hand, Android blatantly ripped off and implemented tech already in place without improvements or innovation.

This is relevant.

Look at Android before the iPhone - ripped off BlackBerry, Palm, etc.

Now look at the original iPhone.

Mere months later... does this look familiar? Android after the iPhone.

EDIT: Also the fact that you have chosen to compare one phone and its OS to around 9 different pieces of tech. The iPhone is better for consumers. Go figure.

[–]kala1928 0 points1 point ago

Because the other companies never trademarked their designs, Apply did.

[–]Canone743 0 points1 point ago

Someone should send this to Samsung. I am so annoyed at apple!

[–]bryntheskits[S] 0 points1 point ago

Did this just get deleted from the frontpage of /r/technology ?

[–]stevewestbelfast 0 points1 point ago

Apple take existing technologies and improve on them. As much as I dislike the company, they really do improve on certain things.

Take the iPod, Apple by no means invented the MP3 player, they completely revolutionized it.

[–]TylerPaul 1 point2 points ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0

These guys set out to find something Apple has invented.

[–]pyalot 0 points1 point ago

Apple won anything because they filed silly design patents on everything they did. They also convinced the patent examiners, who have their souls sucked out by crawlies from the dungeon dimension and are now walking husks with luminous worms writhing in their eyes, that their patents should be granted regardless of any obviousness or prior art (Apple is using a class 5 reality distortion glamour).

In patent law, which was invented by horrors from the deep, it's much harder to invalidate a patent than any other defense. Ordinarily you'd go after "but I didn't violate the patent because of claim XYZ which we don't do.". But in this case the patents are so bleedingly obvious that there's hardly any claims involved. Ordinarily you couldn't get that stuff patented. But remember, Apple is using a class 5 reality distortion glamour.

TL;DR Because Apple, fuck it.

[–]Martin_Samuelson 0 points1 point ago

Okay fine, I'll bite. First, read this, which is an accurate and unbalanced look the patents that were the basis of Apple v. Samsung (I guess I'm assuming that's what you're mostly referring to with this post) and the questions posed to the jury. You will find that Apple's patents were very detailed and very specific; all this bullshit you've heard about "rounded corners" and " pinch to zoom" and "slide to unluck" are simply untrue. Basically, all the examples that you show are things that are not patented, or are very broad descriptions of a patent that actually is very specific. Since these patents are so specific, they are usually pretty easy to design around. However, this Samsung internal document that was presented at the trial alone would make one think that Samsung didn't even try to design around the patents.

Second, about the trial itself, it was held in a courtroom not far from Apple headquarters. Now, I will not speculate as to the motives of the jury or their intelligence or their decision-making abilities, since I was not in the courtroom or in deliberations and neither were you. However, you have to imagine there was quite a bit of home field advantage for Apple.

Third, by all accounts that I read in the media, Apple's lawyers brought their A game. Senior executives and designers made impassioned pleas, tugging at the heartstrings of the jurors. Samsung, on the other hand, did not.

Fourth, something I don't want to get into right now, is that whether all of these software and design patents should even be allowed. Right now they are, so that's why Apple was able to win a lawsuit.

Finally, what did Apple invent? What does anybody invent? Inventions don't come out of thin air. Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, as well as like three other people at the same time. Same thing as with flight. Same thing as with almost any scientific advancement-- that's the way innovation works. Apple took a whole bunch of ideas and inventions that were already out there, packaged them in a new way that people happened to like, and sold a shit-ton. That's how innovation happens.

Now I am unsubscribing from this subreddit so I don't have to see this bullshit on the front page every day.

Edit to add the fourth point.

[–]Coyotito -1 points0 points ago

I'm prepared for down-votes (if anyone actually finds this comment), but I've had enough of these brain-dead anti-Apple posts. It's an insult to anybody who works hard in the creative and liberal arts domain. Apple doesn't own or claim to own any of the designs shown in the picture. Apple developed specific implementations for these designs, which is a completely different thing. They are protecting their work that went into developing specific implementations. (Eg. rounded rectangle frame combined with screen icons of certain size, shape and color.) You can't just patent general ideas, you can, however, patent specific implementations and methods of implementation.

Personally, I get a "high-school all over again"-feeling when I read these anti-Apple and anti-patenting posts. Intellectual achievements are worth nothing, let's bully everyone that works/studies hard and let's take from them whatever we want - they are not the majority, they are not part of the mainstream - who cares?

Samsung stole and keeps stealing specific concepts and ideas to use in their own cheaply made products.

[–]brainflakes 0 points1 point ago

Probably because Samsung's lawyers made many mistakes and the jury was possibly misdirected to disregard prior art by a pro-patent jury foreman.

[–]ozzindale 0 points1 point ago

ITT Apple fanboys dying for their God.

[–]textests 0 points1 point ago

The whole patent system is crazy in my opinion, and not doing the job people who like it claim it does. Also remember Apple isn't alone in this, they lost an earlier patent battle to Nokia for around $600 million. So don't come down to hard on apple. Scratch that, don't come down on them any more than any other company.

[–]EagleOfMay 0 points1 point ago

The jury seems to driven mainly by one the jury the forman (Velvin Hogan) who had very strong opinions about patents.

"After we debated that first patent — what was prior art — because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art, that there wasn't something out there before Apple. In fact we skipped that one so we could go on faster. It was bogging us down.' "After we debated that first patent -- what was prior art --because we had a hard time believing there was no prior art." -- Juror Member Manuel Ilagan http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/08/26/146230/apple-v-samsung-jurors-speak-skipped-prior-art-for-bogging-us-down

[–]abenton -1 points0 points ago

Apply directly to the forehead.