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What Mt. Rushmore Should Have Looked Like. Lack of funds forced the carving to end in October 1941, but this is what it should have looked like. It cost $989,992. (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by Bapoos

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[–]YouShallKnow 26 points27 points ago

I think there was also an issue with the granite. I don't think the mountain could have supported the full version because of cracks or something like that.

[–]South_Dakotan 21 points22 points ago

That is what I thought as well. The had to destroy a portion of the monument earlier because the granite wouldn't do what they wanted it to do.

[–]CredentialChecker 27 points28 points ago

This guy's credentials check out.

[–]emilytasticz0rz 1 point2 points ago

Didnt he also want to add another head but there wasn't the right space/granite? You'd think field trips Every year would have taught me this for life.

[–]South_Dakotan 0 points1 point ago

I think it has enough room for one more head and every historical fan group wants their historical person as the fifth head.

[–]emilytasticz0rz 0 points1 point ago

There is room, but the granite quality is poor in that area so they can't. But yeah, there is always talk about who should be up there next.

[–]heymrk -1 points0 points ago

Roosevelt's face kept falling off.

Also, Borglum abandoned the project halfway through to work on Stone Mountain, GA.

[–]gutter54 7 points8 points ago

Sorry, but you are wrong about abandoning his work, it was the other way around. He even smashed his models and left Georgia for good.

Stone Mountain: June 1923 to March 1925

Mount Rushmore: 1927–1941

Source

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

And he died during construction and his son finished it.

[–]Ali_M 17 points18 points ago

It's just as well they did the heads first...

[–]BoogiddyBoo 6 points7 points ago

It would've been weird with just the bodies and no heads.

[–]tpb07 44 points45 points ago

"Ever since I can remember I been poppin my collar"-Abe Lincoln

[–]Fidena 54 points55 points ago

That was just a normal collar back then. The modern turn-down, 'soft', attached collar of today didn't really come into vogue until the mid 20's.

Here's a rough history of shirt collars from the 1850's -> on.

1850-1870 Either a hard, formal, detachable collar or a soft 'normal' casual shirt collar.

1870-1890 Hard, celluloid turn-down collars with rounded edges or 'wing' collars, which have survived until the modern day with evening ware. Generally not too high. Here's an example. Also, a rounded wing collar, or a 'butterfly'.

1895-1910 Hard, detached, 'fold-down' collars. Generally very high, many going to the chin. Many different styles were offered. Here's an example of one. 'Arrow' was a very popular brand.

1910-1920 Hard, detached collars duke it out with soft detached collars for supremacy. You don't have a box of starched collars you need to bleach and launder frequently, so you can guess who won. Styles were becoming more casual around this time. Shorter, more compact suits.

1920 -> onwards Eventually, attached soft collars take supremacy, with a few stubborn old curmudgeons holding out until the 60s or so.

Abe here is wearing a formal collar known as an "imperial". During the regency period many collars just looked like modern collars turned up.

[–]YouShallKnow 25 points26 points ago

dude loves collars

[–]illegal_deagle 9 points10 points ago

Collar collar skills, y'all.

[–]Fidena 2 points3 points ago

I could tell you pretty much anything about men's fashion 1890-1925. I'm pretty obsessive.

[–]elverloho 1 point2 points ago

I could tell you pretty much anything about men's fashion 1890-1925. I'm pretty obsessive.

What forgotten elements do you think a gentleman could incorporate from that period without looking silly? Things that could stand on their own even in modern times.

[–]Fidena 3 points4 points ago

I'm not so sure. Men accessorized a lot back then. Tie pins, watch fobs, incredible variety of collar styles, different ties, hats, even socks and shoes.

Start with little things. I think old suit cuts look very sharp. I'll upload an album for you to look through in a little.

Even though I like the style of the era, it's hard to pull it off without looking 'silly'. If you think about it, modern casual is pretty much that era of clothing with the 'silly' taken out.

[–]elverloho 1 point2 points ago

Looking forward to the album :)

Don't forget to post it in /r/malefashionadvice as well!

Hats is something I've never figured out. There's just nothing, which looks good on a dude's head in the modern era.

[–]Old-Ben-Kenobi 1 point2 points ago

He's probably just a collarologist.

[–]Rojojunior -2 points-1 points ago

Literally laughed out loud ^

[–]davar 1 point2 points ago

He does indeed love collars more than any other gentleman I have encountered.

[–]fancytalk 0 points1 point ago

I went to school at RPI in Troy, NY which is known as "The Collar City" for its former manufacturing specialty. Apparently detachable collars going out of style was a big hit to the local economy at the time. It's a funny place because it's a little bit "frozen in time" with a lot of turn-of-the-century buildings that no one ever bothered to tear down and rebuild.

[–]naloxone 0 points1 point ago

Indeed. I'm from Albany but worked in Troy for quite some time, and I agree with all of this.

[–]BrutePhysics 0 points1 point ago

You are now entitled "The Collar Dude"

[–]tpb07 1 point2 points ago

Knowledge is power

[–]smiddereens 0 points1 point ago

Indeed

[–]stamatt45 14 points15 points ago

Money wasn't the big problem, they had a lot of problems with the rock below the neck

[–]patronizingperv 13 points14 points ago

And the sculptor died.

[–]abethebrewer 4 points5 points ago

And there was a war on!

[–]EPICMON 7 points8 points ago

If I remember correctly, that carving is still in the Mt Rushmore Museum.

[–]YouShallKnow 4 points5 points ago

Yep, it's in the little building down below, exactly where it is in the picture actually.

[–]ryanoh -3 points-2 points ago

Yeah, anyone who's actually been to Mt Rushmore knows this TIL.

[–]KidCharlem 92 points93 points ago

I always thought it should look like this.

[–]iamonlyalurkertoday 11 points12 points ago

Seriously, they steal the mountain, carve a bunch of white guys on it who all supported stealing land, and put an active member of the KKK in charge of the whole deal? Jesus, guys, jesus.

[–]MollyConnollyxx 53 points54 points ago

Yeah, but come on... it's pretty much all South Dakota has.

[–]Halgy 35 points36 points ago

We have the Corn Palace! And Wall Drug! And meth labs!

[–]MollyConnollyxx 5 points6 points ago

This, too.

[–]Halgy 1 point2 points ago

I had forgotten about that. I think my dad bought a DVD of it from the news station.

[–]MollyConnollyxx 0 points1 point ago

I remember KSFY making jokes about it in the 10 o'clock news that night.

[–]yanman 1 point2 points ago

If SNL ever comes out with an "Over-Enthusiastic Drunk Guy Color Commentary" sketch, I know what it'll sound like.

[–]manifestiny 0 points1 point ago

That was the tallest building in South Dakota.

[–]tadowguy 1 point2 points ago

Wind Cave National Park

[–]louky 0 points1 point ago

We ALL have meth labs.

[–]bvanman 0 points1 point ago

Seriously, that's like saying, "We have McDonalds! And vending machines!"

[–]DasGanon 0 points1 point ago

Wyoming: We have the most [blank] per capita.

[–]Halgy 0 points1 point ago

Meth: it unites us all.

[–]redweasel 0 points1 point ago

Don't talk to me about the goddamn Corn Palace. The only time I was able to get there, it was closed. So it was late November, and so there was a foot of glare ice on the roads. This was the Corn Palace, goddammit, and people all the way from New York wanted to SEE the damn thing. Pfft.

[–]Thistlemanizzle 0 points1 point ago

Corn Palace wasn't that great. Really, the only cool thing about it is the outside, the interior is very very boring.

[–]redweasel 0 points1 point ago

Well, now I feel a bit better.

[–]Thater 1 point2 points ago

Sturgis!

[–]emilytasticz0rz 2 points3 points ago

Fuck Sturgis. Fuck motorcycles. Ugh.

  • Born & raised in Sturgis. Now living in the meth lab hot spot nearby.

[–]Thater 0 points1 point ago

I used to live in MT and had occasion to drive by. Never stopped there but you can tell when your near by the sudden influx of bikers on the interstate

[–]emilytasticz0rz 0 points1 point ago

I hate that place. I try to get out of town for the week. This past rally week I went to Denver. Not far, but far enough.

[–]Thistlemanizzle -1 points0 points ago

Oh god, stay away from the Corn Palace and Wall Drug (and meth). Not hating but those two places were good for about 5 seconds, after that it quickly wore off.

[–]YouShallKnow -2 points-1 points ago

Been there. You know a place is shit when it's motto is "free water."

[–]aldude3 10 points11 points ago

They have the Crazy Horse monument. Except that is privately owned.

[–]MollyConnollyxx 5 points6 points ago

I don't think it would be there if it weren't for Mount Rushmore. Also, it's not finished.

[–]aldude3 5 points6 points ago

Neither is Mr. Rushmore.

[–]MollyConnollyxx 5 points6 points ago

Wow. I can't believe I forgot. I'll go hide in the corner now.

[–]YouShallKnow 1 point2 points ago

Well, Crazy Horse is still being worked on, so there's a pretty big distinction. I know this is super obvious, but I point it out because very few people are even aware of the statue and I'd hate for them to think it's done.

Crazy Horse will be awesome when it's done

[–]TroubadourCeol 4 points5 points ago

If it ever gets done. Isn't it funded entirely with donations? It's extremely slow going.

[–]Razoredgeknife 2 points3 points ago

It looks the same as it did when I was in 3rd grade, 35 year ago. It will never be finished as long as tourists go see it as it is.

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

Yes and yes. But progress is steady.

[–]emilytasticz0rz 0 points1 point ago

Yup Only donations & money from tourism. No government money. Mt Rushmore had government funding.

[–]louky 2 points3 points ago

Yeah I don't see it getting done, the guy who is in running it now seems to have lost his way.

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

Well he's dead, so yeah, there's that. But it's still being actively worked on. They did a large-scale dynamite bast very recently

[–]wildeflowers 1 point2 points ago

Crazy Horse is awesome even now. I thought the museum was very moving. The sculptor has died and his wife is carrying on his work. I personally hope that it does get finished. When I was there last summer they were doing some dynamite work.

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

Yeah that was my experience as well. Consistent but slow progress.

[–]manifestiny 0 points1 point ago

Crazy Horse will never be done.

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

It's still being worked on. Very slow, but progress is constant. It's so slow because they refuse all money from the feds and rely on private donations. If they built a casino, that shit would be up in 2 months flat.

[–]failcheck[!] 0 points1 point ago

As a geologist, I appreciate the natural beauty of the state.

Average tourist? Probably not, ha.

[–]eninety2 5 points6 points ago

woah, woah, woah....sources?

[–]YouShallKnow 8 points9 points ago

Each of those presidents, did, in there own way, support taking land that was occupied by native americans by force.

The monument is built in the sacred black hills; so we literally took over their land and carved our leader's head into their most holy site.

The carver was a known racist and "developed sympathetic connections with the reorganized KKK" while working with a company called the Stone Mountain Confederate Monumental Association which sought to carve confederate heroes on mountainsides. link

[–]YouShallKnow 3 points4 points ago

Look, all those criticisms are totally valid. But you have to see this thing. It's fucking epic. And all those guys, despite their many flaws and hypocrisies, were pretty amazing. Could they have picked a better location? Sure. But now that those disputes are settled and laid to rest, since it's built, all you can do is appreciate it's majesty.

[–]ucbiker 4 points5 points ago

Yeah you could do that, but then how would you be able to feel good about yourself for being modern and progressive?

[–]YouShallKnow 2 points3 points ago

Do what I do, buy an Obama bumper sticker. White guilt absolved.

[–]manifestiny 2 points3 points ago

It's hard to say that all the disputes are settled and laid to rest when Native Americans are still living in South Dakota in some of the poorest areas of the nation. It's a crazy huge statue, and Crazy Horse is even bigger (it will never be finished), and the four men on Mt. Rushmore deserve praise, but I don't think it should ever be viewed without also thinking, "damn that was a huge dick move."

[–]YouShallKnow -2 points-1 points ago

It's hard to say that all the disputes are settled and laid to rest when Native Americans are still living in South Dakota in some of the poorest areas of the nation.

So you think that somehow the descendants of native americans have a valid claim against the current government? The victims are gone and the perpetrator is gone; I don't get how a claim can still exist.

it will never be finished

why do you think that?

but I don't think it should ever be viewed without also thinking, "damn that was a huge dick move."

Sure.

[–]resay5 0 points1 point ago

I would have to disagree, many Natives still find this to be biggest vandalism in all of our country. It was a sacred location and peak for them, but nothing was considered about it blown up to make faces into it.

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

I think the monument does a good job; they tell visitors that the black hills were sacred to the Indians. I think as long as people understand that the hills were sacred, that we took the land by force, and that it's a massive insult to have built the monument on their holy land, then it's alright to enjoy it's beauty. It's not an unqualified majesty I have for the monument, but it is majestic none the less.

[–]resay5 0 points1 point ago

That's quite interesting I've never been to the monument so didn't know they speak about that openly. Pretty cool.. I hope to visit it one day.

[–]YouShallKnow 0 points1 point ago

They sort of dance around it. They indicate that the area is sacred to the Indians and leave it to the listener to determine if carving our leaders' faces there is an insult. They certainly don't tell you anyone is insulted. But yeah, I got the picture pretty quick.

And nearly anyone who goes and sees Mount Rushmore stops at crazy horse; the message of the sacred nature of the area and the insult that Rushmore is, becomes quite clear. That's part of the genius of the crazy horse monument, it nearly guarantees that everyone will understand the injury done to them.

The motto of the place is "my lands are where my dead lie buried." Which has stuck with me.

The combined message of both monuments does a good job at conveying the conflicted truth of the era. All in all, very well done in my opinion.

[–]BokehBurgher 0 points1 point ago

active member of the KKK?? say more about that?

[–]manifestiny 1 point2 points ago

And it's not just any old land that it was built on. The Black Hills are sacred land.

[–]Sabird1 0 points1 point ago

and put an active member of the KKK in charge of the whole deal? Jesus, guys, Jesus.

Jesus was in charge of Mount Rushmore? And he was in the KKK?

[–]itssheramie 0 points1 point ago

Beautiful

[–]basscheez 4 points5 points ago

It just had to be big enough to obscure Cibola.

[–]iDisc 4 points5 points ago

You can actually tell on George Washington's head that they started carving his whole suit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mountrushmore.jpg

[–]realityisoverrated 4 points5 points ago

The man on the ladder is incredibly realistic.

[–]libbykino 2 points3 points ago

This model is still on-site at Mt. Rushmore actually. It's sitting in a little one-room museum that's about the size of a large garage with a few other historical pieces about. But the coolest part is that right above the model is a window which frames the actual mountain, so you can see the real monument just above the model to compare the two...

Every American should go and see Mt. Rushmore at least once in their lives. It really is incredibly awesome in the true sense of the word. Plus, it's fun to tell people that you looked up Jefferson's nose on your vacation.

[–]h_lehmann 0 points1 point ago

Meh... I visited once back in the 80's, and frankly I was a little underwhelmed. Sure, it was bigger than anything I myself could ever do, but it still seemed miniscule when compared to Yosemite, Grand Canyon, etc.

[–]publius4 2 points3 points ago

I actually like it better the way it turned out. The addition of their bodies would have distracted from the impressive scale of the heads.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]TinynDP 1 point2 points ago

Thats the entire country. No reason to single out Rushmore.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]JCelsius -3 points-2 points ago

Everything is sacred to those savages. You can't throw a rock without it landing on some sacred leaf of theirs.

--paraphrased from "Avatar"

[–]daberg 2 points3 points ago

"Then don't throw a rock" --me

[–]South_Dakotan -4 points-3 points ago

It looks like I am currently sitting on land that belonged to the Sioux. The land was giving to the victors, I really don't see anything wrong with that.

[–]YouShallKnow 5 points6 points ago

You don't see anything wrong with someone using force to displace people who have traditionally occupied some land?

So would it be wrong for an alien species to come to Earth and obliterate every human so they can take our resources? The land would go to the victors right?

[–]gelarus 0 points1 point ago

Right, of course.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]TinynDP 3 points4 points ago

That was then, this (WW2-onwards) is now. Do you have a practical plan for moving 300M people to Europe?

[–]YouShallKnow 1 point2 points ago

It's wrong to take the land by force. But no one's arguing we give it back; although we should have the honesty to admit what was done was morally wrong.

[–]abethebrewer 0 points1 point ago

cruise ships!

[–]JCelsius 0 points1 point ago

Well, they won the battle, but not the war.

Notice the saying, "all is fair in love and war". Not love and battles. C'mon!

[–]rhuester 2 points3 points ago

The history of the white conquest of America is a teeny bit more complicated than that, but, um...sure.

[–]iamonlyalurkertoday 2 points3 points ago

That's because you're racist.

[–]South_Dakotan 2 points3 points ago

I am racist because I am living on previously Sioux territory?

[–]MrBullyGoat 0 points1 point ago

No you're racist because you don't have enough white guilt.

[–]emilytasticz0rz 0 points1 point ago

I live in the Black Hills. I have no guilt for this. I didn't do it. It sucks, yeah, but why should I have to feel guilty for this shit? So I'm racist. Oh well. I guess I am. That sucks, but I'll deal.

[–]JCelsius -2 points-1 points ago

Hey! We're carving Crazy Horse or whatever for them and it's gigantic. I think it's time to bury the hatchet and pass the peace pipe. Have a pow wow. We're not looking to scalp these guys. We just want to all sit together in the same wigwam and...umm....Yea I'm done.

But seriously, they give out loans with ridiculous interest rates. That's gotta even the score somewhat, right?

[–]thealoof 1 point2 points ago

It looks like Roosevelt is leaning in to kiss Lincoln.

[–]ar9mm 0 points1 point ago

Abraham Lincoln with the popped collar ftw

[–]Torncano 0 points1 point ago

kickstarter! lets finish that bitch up!

[–]burhanistan 1 point2 points ago

Kneel before Zod, bitches.

[–]declan1596 1 point2 points ago

Would have sucked if they carved two full body ones and half a head and THEN realized they didn't have the resources.

[–]ricki142 0 points1 point ago

woah, woah, woah....sources.

[–]Nebakanezzer 0 points1 point ago

it always looked unfinished to me. like he went sorta full force with washington, then just added heads. seeing this now, I'm disappointed he didnt finish his jacket.

[–]zeegz 1 point2 points ago

Mt. Rushmore: Biggest fuck you to indigenous people ever.

[–]AMZ88 0 points1 point ago

I was just at mt. Rushmore this summer. They said it wasnt finished due to a change in the integrity of the rock below what they had done already.

[–]DasGanon 0 points1 point ago

To be fair, wasn't it going to be just 4 South Dakota dudes originally?

Secondly, isn't it also the time capsule for when us and our great great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren are long gone?

Thirdly, for being something funded by taxpayer dollars, why is everything there being run by a private company who gets all the proceeds?

[–]deathsythe 0 points1 point ago

It cost $989,992

Or in other terms, what the US debt rises every 6 seconds.

Or 2042 times the budget of the DEA.

Or 1165 times the budget of the ATF.

Just to give you some point of reference.

[–]ekimdad 0 points1 point ago

I was on a theater tour and we had a day off in Rapid City. Rented a car and did the Black Hills touristy thing. We went to the Crazy Horse monument first and that blew me away...after that Mt. Rushmore was "meh"

[–]Arknell 0 points1 point ago

...so Teddy was a Photobomber?

[–]irishgeologist 1 point2 points ago

Who's got the laser from Richie Rich? Let's finish this off!

[–]wekiva 0 points1 point ago

The mountain should have been left alone.

[–]art_fey 0 points1 point ago

Gotta tell you, Teddy Roosevelt is looking a lot like Ron Perlman from "Beauty and the Beast" in the picture.

[–]10tothe24th 1 point2 points ago

What Mt. Rushmore should have looked like is a mountain, which is what the state, the government, and most importantly the native inhabitants wanted.

[–]petedacook 1 point2 points ago

I like it the way it is. The guy on the ladder in front of it totally ruins it for me. Why would they plan that?

[–]cornbread_tp -1 points0 points ago

Washington, Washington 6 foot 20 Fucking killing for fun

[–]themuffins 1 point2 points ago

He had a pocket full of horses

Fucked the shit out of bears

Threw a knife into heaven

And could kill with a stare

He made love like an eagle

Falling out of the sky

Killed his sensei in a duel

And he never said why

[–]lovelylisab -2 points-1 points ago

Years ago, I heard, that the "sculptor", that was given the job, had, PREVIOUSLY RUINED THE MOUNTAIN HE SCULPTED. Its hear-say, but, interesting.

[–]I0I0I0I -3 points-2 points ago

What could go wrong?

[–]MyNameIsNotErin 0 points1 point ago

Every time I see "What could (possibly) go wrong?"

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