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651

When I found out Lance Armstrong is being stripped of all his Tour de France victories (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by blakeready710

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[–]Onslaught147 75 points76 points ago

Link for the lazy.

[–]ump721 109 points110 points ago

It's a strange day when you get your news from r/reactiongifs...

[–]blakeready710[S] 9 points10 points ago

Thankyou sir, meant to link it.

[–]Racxius 1 point2 points ago

You amaze me and my laziness.

[–]Mack488 93 points94 points ago

You die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

That seems to be happening a lot recently...

[–]tonypotenza 7 points8 points ago

wait till they/we start going after world bankers.

[–]smok_e_wan_kenobie 21 points22 points ago

Well?

[–]tonypotenza 2 points3 points ago

i don't really care if the dollar falls, i got no money tied to it. the unemployed and poor of America should do the lynching.

[–]Zorbick 2 points3 points ago

The dollar is a global currency. If it goes to shit(more), other things go to shit(more).

For example, oil is traded with the dollar.

[–]tonypotenza 1 point2 points ago

not denying that. There is no way we can have a smooth transition when power shifts.

[–]smok_e_wan_kenobie -4 points-3 points ago

Oil is traded in GOLD - which the dollar has no ties to.

0.0602 ounces of gold per barrel - Just one source, there are more if you search

EDIT: By the way, the IMF owns a good portion of the gold and controls a good portion of all 'paper' or fiat currency around the world.... The Federal Reserve may or may not be directly controlled.. judging by the Fed paying to bail out European countries, I'd say they are one and the same.

Excuse me now, someone's knocking on my door ...

Edit2: Whatever you say, downvotes. Oil is tied to gold. Your dollar is not. Fiat currency is why you pay so much at the pump. These are all facts.

[–]QWOPtain 5 points6 points ago

You have to be a villain for that statement to come true. I firmly believe Lance is the victor in this situation. He's being made a martyr. The USADA are the ones that look like the villains.

[–]skillian 3 points4 points ago

Have a look at some non-American press. That's not the way it's being painted over here.

[–]rifrif 23 points24 points ago

I looked at the gif first and thought "oh this gif again. heh" and then i read the title and MADE THE EXACT SAME FACE

I HAVE NO IDEA WHATS GOING ON

[–]Quierochurros -4 points-3 points ago

I don't give a shit about Armstrong and honestly believe he was doping for some, most, or possibly all of his victories.

But I have to upvote this because this is the first time I've seen this gif and it is awesome.

[–]fungalicious 4 points5 points ago

I don't give a shit about Armstrong and honestly believe he was doping for some, most, or possibly all of his victories.

is this based on some credible evidence or just inane babble?

[–]Quierochurros 2 points3 points ago

A ton of former team members have come out and said so. Cycling is, historically speaking, as dirty a sport as you can find when it comes to PEDs and other ways top get a leg up on the competition. It's not realistic to be clean and have that kind of dominance over the field while the field is dirty.

Again, I don't care, really. I'm just not inclined to believe his innocence.

[–]snowlemur 4 points5 points ago

So... your argument is that "those guys (his competitors) said he did!" Of course, the fact that he's never failed a single drug test, despite being the most tested athlete in history, doesn't factor into your opinion.

[–]Quierochurros -1 points0 points ago

His team members weren't his competitors. They were his team members.

And people get around tests all the time. I'd bet that some substances that were legal at the time he won his first Tour were banned by the time he won his last. And it's not just about drugs. Doping can be withdrawing blood and then putting it back in before the race to allow you to move more oxygen through your system.

[–]snowlemur -1 points0 points ago

A lot of the "evidence" comes from Floyd Landis, who had been actually proven to be a doper and has shown himself willing to perjure himself in court. And they don't just test for drugs; they can also detect blood doping, which Lance has also never tested positive for. I'll go with science over hearsay from know liars.

[–]Quierochurros -1 points0 points ago

You named one guy. I'm hearing that several are talking. Again, I don't really care, but the more people who had access make the claim, the more I'm inclined to believe it.

[–]snowlemur 2 points3 points ago

His accusers: Floyd Landis: Admitted doping, lied in court, stripped of his titles. Tyler Hamilton: admitted doping, stripped of his titles. Frankie Andreu: Admitted taking performance enhancing drugs for the 1999 Tour. Stephen Swart: Alleges Armstrong took PEDs with no evidence. George Hincapie: Alleges Armstrong took PEDs, also with no evidence. The drug they claim he took? It shows up on the standard doping test for cycling. I'll stick with believing the evidence rather than unsubstantiated claims by his rivals.

Also, it's pretty interesting that Armstrong's accusers admitted taking the same drugs they claim he took, yet he's the only one who didn't get caught, don't you think?

[–]halogen1212 37 points38 points ago

The USADA don't really have the authority to strip him of his victories.

*Edit: My bad, USDA != USADA.

[–]AlienHook 7 points8 points ago

*USADA

[–]larkable 3 points4 points ago

Well, he's technically right. The USDA doesn't have the authority to strip him of his victories.

[–]gaslacktus 1 point2 points ago

I liked this better before the edit.

[–]xdavien 3 points4 points ago

And it was true either way!

[–]FA-Hayek 19 points20 points ago

Hope he doesn't go nuts about it.

[–]wiithepiiple 15 points16 points ago

Ouch, right in the cancer...

[–]damngifs 6 points7 points ago

Hope he doesn't go nuts about it.

Hope he doesn't go nut about it.

[–]Ree81 0 points1 point ago

Eh. Celebrities don't crash and burn Britney/Cobain style anyone. Might be fun with something fresh.

[–]nofelix 7 points8 points ago

the famed cyclist will be stripped of his seven titles in the Tour de France.

Does this mean there's like 7 second place cyclists who suddenly get Tour de France titles?

[–]CerpinTaxes 5 points6 points ago

No, they've decided against tracing back over the years and trying to find the fastest non-doper in each race as apparently it's too difficult to be sure who would have won if the dopers weren't racing.

They're just starting with a new slate.

[–]nofelix 4 points5 points ago

lol you know your sport is fucked when...

[–]miklo7 9 points10 points ago

They should make new bracelets that say "Live Stronger"

[–]lobaroja85 3 points4 points ago

I don't watch this show but I love this gif.

[–]nofelix 1 point2 points ago

wait, what show is it?

[–]lobaroja85 3 points4 points ago

Supernatural

[–]fungalicious 12 points13 points ago

Not sure if someone is saying this elsewhere - but this whole thing is ridiculous.

Armstrong has been tested something like 600+ times, and has never failed a single test.

USADA has no authority to go after him

The main people who are accusing Armstrong are people who have been caught doping themselves.

[–]JBHowat 2 points3 points ago

Well, his blood did test positive for EPO in the 1999 TdF, but it was unable to be used against him because it wasn't an official anti-doping test, just research. There was no test for EPO in 1999, and the idea is that many riders were using it then because they knew that.

Also, many, many riders have admitted to, or were found guilty of using PEDs without testing positive. Not testing positive just means you are good at not getting caught, and LA and his people were the best.

[–]fungalicious 1 point2 points ago

Not testing positive just means you are good at not getting caught, and LA and his people were the best.

this is something I find ridiculous...so your idea is that EVERYONE was cheating and the ones who tested clean were just better than everyone else at cheating?

that's like saying that everyone in baseball used HGH because they had no way to test it...when they did find a way to test for it, the number of players using it was around 30-40% based on statistics.

So again - most of the stuff you and other anti Armstrong people are saying is speculation backed up by zero evidence.

And I am not trying to say Armstrong is clean one way or the other - every man is susceptible to cheating or doing something illegal...I am not delusional to think he is a saint.

All I am saying, time and time again, is that there is zero evidence at this time to make him out to be a cheat.

[–]JBHowat 0 points1 point ago

His blood from 1999 tested positive for EPO. That isn't zero evidence. Former cheaters as well as those who never cheated (or at least weren't caught) coming forward to testify against him. That isn't zero evidence. Handily beating many other elite athletes who were using at the time isn't zero evidence. This isn't baseball, there are fewer variables in absolute performance. I can tell you with personal experience that no amount of natural talent allows someone to TIME AND AGAIN ride way from other elite riders who were doping.

The differences in natural ability between the elite members of the peloton are very very small. For one person to win 7 times against clean riders - yeah, he's great. For him to win 7 times against riders who are doping... He's still great, but IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN without him doping.

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

so how is there such a discrepancy? If they have blood from 1999 that failed tests, why the need for anything else?

He's still great, but IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN without him doping.

this doesn't make sense to me since if you watched the tour, you know his strength is in one particular thing - climbing - so it makes perfect sense how one person can be the best at something for a short period of time.

So your argument makes little sense to me in that regard...it's like saying Michael Jordan is a cheat because he won so many rings and nobody else has won as many or won two three peats etc.

the whole thing just seems weird...

where is the evidence? if it's so clear, why did the US justice department (same people that took down Marion Jones, Bonds etc and many other top athletes) drop an investigation after wasting 2 years on it?

most of the things you said, outside the 1999 test, is speculation.

[–]JBHowat 1 point2 points ago

They need something else because the 1999 blood was tested for "research purposes" and later L'Equipe found out that his was one that tested positive. It was a research test, not a doping test- the it couldn't be used against him. Still, doesn't mean the test was invalid - it was.

Lance was a good climber and good in the ITT. As are most people who win the TdF. Yet he consistently beat other people who WERE doping and were also world class climbers.

If Michael Jordan was an individual athlete who beat other athletes with super-human levels of performance thanks to doping... Yes I would assume he was doping. Basketball is not cycling, though.

[–]flip_flap 1 point2 points ago

It's not just testimony from other cyclists. The allegations are based on blood samples and urine tests.

[–]fungalicious -2 points-1 points ago

I don't know all the evidence - I don't follow this that closely, I just know from what I have seen/read there is zero evidence.

The case was dropped by US Federal prosecutors (same ones that took down BALCO and all those athletes)...

All of what I have seen presented as evidence is supposedly related stuff, yet not a positive test.

If that's not true, then I would like to read more about what they actually have on him.

EDIT: this is what I found in the times:

Tygart and the antidoping agency were basing their case not on a positive drug test but rather on other supporting evidence.

so again - no positive test...just testimony from proven cheats and other non direct evidence.

[–]flip_flap 0 points1 point ago

In its 15-page letter, USADA said its investigation included evidence dating back to 1996 and accused Armstrong of a "pervasive pattern of doping" over many years.

It says it collected blood samples from him in 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent with blood ma­nipu­la­tion including EPO use and/or blood transfusions".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18435771

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

so what's his defense?

also - if it's so clear, why did the US Justice department not pursue anything after a 2 year investigation?

It just seems like one side says they have evidence, and the other side says they have never failed any tests.

[–]flip_flap 0 points1 point ago

He put out a statement calling the process "one-sided and unfair". Also he said that USADA doesn't have the authority and that they've made deals with other cyclists.

http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/lance-armstrongs-statement-of-august-23-2012

It sounds like he thinks he's been treated differently to other cyclists.

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

I understand that - but even in the bbc article I am reading from your link, it says:

He could face a lifetime ban and be stripped of his awards if he is found to have used performance-enhancing drugs,

IF he is found...so again, I don't quite understand. If they have a positive test, they have a positive test.

It sounds like he thinks he's been treated differently to other cyclists.

I do think he is being treated differently...the USADA doesn't have authority and even if they find him guilty, there is a good chance the Cycling authority (forgot their full name) will appeal on his behalf because USADA has no authority on this.

[–]flip_flap 0 points1 point ago

I think they've said "if he is found..." because the case with USADA hadn't finished. He decided today to end his fight instead of having the case arbitrated. If he'd kept up his defence then there'd now be a proper court case.

By giving up his fight against the charges he'd admitted his guilt (or that's how they see it)

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

I see.

Well that does clear things up a little bit but still just leaves a weird feelings...

and going from that bbc article:

"These are the very same charges and the same witnesses that the Justice Department chose not to pursue after a two-year investigation."

see that makes no sense to me right there...US Justice department, which spent a lot of money trying to prosecute, which prosecuted Marion Jones, Bonds and countless others - has access to the same evidence and they say we are not prosecuting.

USADA, with limited authority here, steps in to do it...

I have no idea if Armstrong cheated...and if he did, he deserves all the penalties and punishment he will get.

But this just seems weird and fishy...

[–]flip_flap 0 points1 point ago

Yeah I don't know why he's given up. It could be because he's guilty or because like he said he's tired of the stress.

[–]gaslacktus 23 points24 points ago

Fuck them. He's still the victor to me.

[–]Dolfan0925 5 points6 points ago

If for no other reason than (If he did take something) to be able to win and win and win and never get caught doping.

[–]gaslacktus 25 points26 points ago

I was going to go for the beating cancer and then winning the tour repeatedly but hey.

[–]soupisawesome 3 points4 points ago

And if he did dope, he still beat everyone else, and they were doping too.

[–]Sselnoisiv 5 points6 points ago

When I first heard about the doping allegations I was sad about the thought that he may have doped to win. Then a few years later I realized, his other main competitors have all been reprimanded for doping too. I don't like the idea that he may have used performance enhancing drugs, but he still beat everyone else that was also using them. He's still pretty fucking badass. It does however taint the 7 in a row thing a bit.

[–]fungalicious 5 points6 points ago

you should stop talking as if his drug use is proven - it is much more likely that this is just a witch hunt.

He has taken over 600 blood tests, never failed one.

USADA has absolutely zero authority to go after him like this and to strip him of his victories.

It would be a shame if he cheated - regardless of what the others around him have been doing. However, there is zero evidence of him cheating. zero.

[–]Sselnoisiv 4 points5 points ago

Well there's not zero evidence, there's just zero physical evidence. There's a heap of corroborating evidence from people (close to him) saying that he did dope. The fact that he never failed a test is why I hope he's never stripped of his titles and why I still hold in him high regard for his physical victories. The USADA is overzealous at times just like the DEA regarding drugs in general.

[–]fungalicious 3 points4 points ago

There's a heap of corroborating evidence from people (close to him) saying that he did dope.

but rational people take other things into consideration - namely, where were these people over the course of years? Why are they only coming out after they themselves have been busted as cheaters?

Do you understand how unreliable that is?

The fact that he never failed a test is why I hope he's never stripped of his titles and why I still hold in him high regard for his physical victories.

the USADA has zero authority to strip him of anything. Even if they prove him a cheat, they can't take anything away from him besides barring him from competing in future races, and not even the tour but the triathlon stuff he is doing.

[–]Sselnoisiv 1 point2 points ago

I understand it's not reliable, you also can't blindly dismiss it. In a court of law he would never be convicted, in a court of public opinion though he doesn't come out unblemished.

I said "I hope he's never stripped", because even though USADA has no jurisdiction it wouldn't be the first time a group from the US has exerted influence to achieve an outcome they shouldn't have been able to demand.

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

I understand it's not reliable, you also can't blindly dismiss it. In a court of law he would never be convicted, in a court of public opinion though he doesn't come out unblemished.

what does that even mean? None of the people providing evidence are reliable...none of their claims are reliable.

The court of public opinion doesn't really matter, because people tend to be fickle and stupid and make opinions while they are ignorant of the reality of the situation.

All I was saying is that your original comments came across as if his doping is a proven fact, which is nonsense.

If any of these guy's word was worth anything, they would have come out BEFORE they got busted themselves.

[–]Sselnoisiv 0 points1 point ago

You're right, I did talk as if it was fact. I don't take it as fact, but I admit the possibility of it being true is greater than before I heard the news.

You've completely written off all of the testimony simply because it's suspect. That's equally as stubborn as accepting the testimony at face value. Is it possible they're all lying? Yes. Is it possible they're all telling the truth? Yes.

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

I don't take it as fact, but I admit the possibility of it being true is greater than before I heard the news.

but why? These allegations have been around since he wont the first tour in 1999 or whenever. Absolutely nothing new has come out.

You've completely written off all of the testimony simply because it's suspect. That's equally as stubborn as accepting the testimony at face value.

No it isn't. The burden of proof is on them, not on me or you. The burden of proof is on those making the accusations. And if those making the accusations have only their word - the validity of their word is extremely important. Without any corroborative evidence, their word is worth nothing. That's what I am saying.

It's different if a rider says he was on Lance's team and he saw him dope, or they doped together etc. And it's VERY different when the other rider gets busted, denies ever doping, fails the retest and the appeal, gets banned - THEN says Armstrong gave him all the shit.

That's what's happening here.

Now, if there is corroborating evidence, then the word of even those liers and cheaters gets more credibility, but until that corroborating evidence, you can't do anything but dismiss the accusations - simply because you would have to rely on the word proven liars and cheaters.

[–]CerpinTaxes 0 points1 point ago

Maybe he just doped harder than everyone else.

Being the worlds best cheater isn't anything to be proud of.

[–]Sselnoisiv 3 points4 points ago

True, he's the dopest doper I suppose.

[–]flip_flap 1 point2 points ago

Is Ben Johnson still a victor to you too? Or Marion Jones? I'm just wondering why Armstrong should be treated differently. Cancer doesn't seem like a reason to not label him a cheat.

[–]derphoenix 1 point2 points ago

So professional bicyclist use doping?

Who knew?

[–]SpikeThis -1 points0 points ago

He was mine too...until I read his book. Strikes me as pretty full of himself.

[–]QWOPtain 9 points10 points ago

Armstrong stays a champion in my eyes. Fuck what the bigwigs at the USADA say.

[–]flip_flap 2 points3 points ago

Based on what? There are plenty of drug cheats in sports who don't get this sympathy from the public. I don't get why Armstrong is excused.

[–]DFGdanger 3 points4 points ago

Because cancer. Not saying I necessarily agree, but that's the big sympathy pull.

[–]QWOPtain -1 points0 points ago

Because, from what I've read, he didn't cheat. Sharksgivethebestbjs put something in an askreddit question:

Now in this case USADA is trying a case based on witness statements, and then backtracking from those to test stored B samples. This in Itself is outside of USA Cycling and UCI policy. One of the B samples from Lance tested positive for a supplement that was not illegal at the time it was taken. This is the basis of USADA's argument.

This is why I think the USADA is being silly.

[–]pasmeme 4 points5 points ago

Don't you know, cancer gives you an unfair advantage.

[–]Chiv_Cortland 0 points1 point ago

Technically, doesn't the USADA not actually have the authority to remove his titles, since they're from a foreign event?

[–]whyme85 0 points1 point ago

I feel like USADA is trying to destroy a legend. People look up to Lance for his accomplishments, not only in cycling but beating cancer and for starting Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF). I despise USADA for trying to discredit Lance to tarnish his reputation, thus destroying him; as it will also destroy a legend. And legends give us hope and inspiration. To take that away from everyone is just cruel, that some things are bigger than a doping allegation that is more than 10 years old.

[–]xdavien 0 points1 point ago

But don't you know that the future of the sport of cycling is more important than all of that? Silly goose.

[–]BenjaminBlues 1 point2 points ago

Well. This sounds like total and utter bullshit. He deserves better than that.

[–]KFloww 4 points5 points ago

It's bullshit because even if he was using PEDs, all of the other finishers in the top 20 were too. But they'll never be tested so lance looks like the villain.

[–]ekimdad 0 points1 point ago

It's interesting how the USADA and others in the sports world keep looking backward. Armstrong's last Tour win was back in 2006(?). Shouldn't they be working on how to detect the PED's of today and the future? It seems like a waste of time, effort, and money to me.

[–]fungalicious 0 points1 point ago

Shouldn't they be working on how to detect the PED's of today and the future? It seems like a waste of time, effort, and money to me.

It all has to do with their purpose. They are not trying to clean up the sport - they are trying to bring credibility and legitimacy to the USADA by going after Armstrong.

[–]flip_flap 1 point2 points ago

There's no reason why they can't do both.

[–]MagicDr 3 points4 points ago

I like this one better ; )

[–]Mattho 1 point2 points ago

Which one are you?

[–]blakeready710[S] 1 point2 points ago

Both

[–]Hunter1127 -1 points0 points ago

"On Friday, both #livestrong and #cheatstrong were both popular on Twitter."

How is this an important part of news now....?

[–]Leroy_J -1 points0 points ago

The people "saying" he must've cheated must be fundies, because SCIENCE SAYS HE DIDN'T, MOTHERFUCKER!

What? Oh, RIVALS who tested positive are making accusations? Then they must be right.

[–]Shadowman40 -1 points0 points ago

Fucking bullshit. They haven't even found anything yet, it's all just accusations.

[–]paracog 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, they're gonna give him back his testiclular cancer too.

[–]Clauderoughly -1 points0 points ago

I am Jack's total lack of surprise.

Really.. it was always clear the guy was on drugs.

Why are people shocked ?

[–]ishalfdeaf 8 points9 points ago

You should totally submit the evidence you have as proof to the USADA.

[–]Clauderoughly -4 points-3 points ago

No need, they seem to have all the proof they need.

[–]tandembandit 3 points4 points ago

Which is former teammates willing to testify against Armstrong for lessened punishments after they were caught and proven to have doped. They do claim to have blood samples of Armstrong's from 2009/10 that are consistent with doped blood and an email between Landis and him that says something, but they haven't really clarified what that something is.

Point is, they've never stated that their evidence is conclusive proof of blood doping, and their witnesses include at least two cyclists that have already been caught and could be giving false testimony in order to get lesser punishment. And this is after Armstrong has given hundreds of samples going back to '99 and maybe even earlier. He just endured a federal investigation into doping claims that revealed nothing. The fact that the USADA is so vehement in pursuing a case against Armstrong when countless other cases have been fruitless and the large majority of his blood samples(all but the two that aren't even conclusive) have been clean.

There's a level of uncertainty to every level of this investigation.

[–]snowlemur 0 points1 point ago

Agreed. Landis is a coward and a liar. There's no question he doped, and he's proven he's willing to perjure himself. No one should believe anything he says.

[–]ishalfdeaf 1 point2 points ago

Surely they'll deliver. Let's just wait.

[–]fungalicious -1 points0 points ago

lol you dumbass they have no proof...he has never failed a drug test. The only "proof" they have is former teammates, busted for doping, who are testifying against him for lesser punishment or in an attempt to clear their name by bringing in Armstrong.

[–]infiniteart 0 points1 point ago

Like didn't everyone see this coming from a million miles away? Landis lost everything and told the truth, and if you can't trust a Mennonite from Lancaster, who can you trust?

[–]Quierochurros 0 points1 point ago

Guy on msnbc right now from SI saying that there have been disputed tests, ones where he's more or less been let off on a technicality, including his first tour win.

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