this post was submitted on
978 points (64% like it)
2,129 up votes 1,151 down votes
shortlink:

atheism

subscribe1,153,120 readers

1,694 users here now

Help Atheist Organizations!

The Secular Student Alliance, Camp Quest, and Foundation Beyond Belief were all nominated for the Chase Community Giving program, which awards grants based on the votes of the public. Everyone gets 2 votes on Facebook, plus an additional one if they share a CCG page. The links for them are:

SSA | CQ | FBB

Voting runs from September 6-19

Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. Please read our FAQ.

Please link directly to any images or use imgur to avoid being flagged as blogspam

^ *

Recommended reading and viewing

Thank you notes

Related Subreddits <--the big list
GodlessWomen YoungAtheists AtheistParents
BlackAtheism AtheistGems DebateAnAtheist
skeptic agnostic freethought
antitheism humanism Hitchens
a6theism10 tfbd AdviceAtheists
Events
10/5-6 NAPCON2012 - Boston
08/11 Regional Conference - St. Paul MN
Giving
DWB/MSF fundraiser
Kiva lending team
FBB's Appeal to Freethinkers to Fight Cancer
Camp Quest
Ex* Groups
ex-Muslim ex-Catholic ex-Mormon
ex-JW ex-Jew ex-SistersinZion
ex-Bahai ex-Christian ex-Adventist
Assistance
Coming Out
Atheist Havens
Start an Atheist Club at Your School

Chat: #reddit-atheism on irc.freenode.net

Watch: #/r/atheism on reddit.tv

Read The FAQ

Submit Rage Comic

Submit Facebook Chat

Submit Meme

Submit Something Else

a community for
to anything interesting: news article, blog entry, video, picture...
message the moderators

MODERATORS

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

977
978

The nerve ... (imgur.com)

submitted ago by god_killer1234567

top 200 commentsshow all 263
sorted by:
best
best
top
new
hot
controversial
old

[–]kungfu_kickass 34 points35 points ago

The nerve to post something text-based on a red background with white text.

I like my eyeballs.

[–]qm11 3 points4 points ago

Easier to read text from the image:

"I'll tell you what you did with Atheists for about 1500 years. You outlawed them from the universities or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy. You dehumanised them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, imprisoned them, stabbed them, disembowelled them, hanged them, burnt them alive. And you have nerve enough to complain to me that I laugh at you."

Dr Madalyn Murray O'Hair

[–]Their_Police 3 points4 points ago

By the logic of this argument, a black person could easily go up to any white person and say "Fuck you for enslaving us."

[–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

Except that morality changes while religious texts does not.

[–]Their_Police 0 points1 point ago

That's not my point. My point was that no religious person alive today did any of those things just as no white person alive today is responsible for slavery.

[–]Bjoernzor -1 points0 points ago

No, but neither do Atheists often laugh at a "person", they laugh at their ridiculous beliefs. The beliefs are still the same

[–]Their_Police 0 points1 point ago

The beliefs are irrelevant because they can't act on them. Churches don't have the same power in the government they used to, and we came up with laws saying you can't go around killing people for stupid shit.

[–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

But your beliefs is what forms you to what you are. If your beliefs are fucking digusting and ignorant, then i have all the right in the world to laugh at you.

[–]Their_Police 1 point2 points ago

Yes, but that's not what I was referring to. This post made it seem like every Christian alive today is responsible for every past torment against atheists, and that's not true.

[–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

Oh, i read it as "People who hold the same beliefs that cause other people to do these horrible horrible things shouldn't be offended when i laugh at the religious dogma that used to cause such suffering" I doubt any intelligent person actually hold Christians today responsible for things like this, but I have all the right to hold their beliefs responsible for it.

load more comments (2 replies)

    [–]yellownumberfive 74 points75 points ago

    We owe this woman so much. Most of the younger folks here won't even know who she is, but she's the one that took the issue of prayer in public schools to the Supreme Court and won.

    She's also one of the first people to start organizing atheists to work toward common goals, and yeah, she had concern trolls from the community just like we do.

    But she was one of the first to say NOW IS THE TIME FOR OUR SEAT AT THE TABLE. NOW IS THE TIME TO STOP LAYING DOWN AND BEING POLITE. NOW WE TAKE WHAT DIGNITY DEMANDS.

    [–]Kaden3 14 points15 points ago

    Can I ask what's so bad about prayer in schools?

    [–]kaitmeister 34 points35 points ago

    The issue is not prayer in schools - I can't see an issue with someone praying privately just because they're in a school. The issue is with mandated and teacher-led prayers.

    [–]Kaden3 12 points13 points ago

    Ahh, ok. Thank you.

    [–]purplestgiraffe 13 points14 points ago

    Thank you both so much for proving one can have a reasonable and polite exchange on this subreddit! Sincerely.

    [–]Kaden3 6 points7 points ago

    Oh, thank you? I feel like this is one of the few polite responses I've gotten on here. (I'm Christian BTW)

    [–]doejinn 10 points11 points ago

    BELIEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [–]TimeZarg 3 points4 points ago

    QUICK, HIT IT WITH A SCIENCE TEXTBOOK!

    [–]Fantasticriss -2 points-1 points ago

    yet the downvote brigade made sure he was punished for his question

    [–]Chimpi 1 point2 points ago

    Don't fret, it's still the 3rd highest ranked response of the hottest comment in this thread. Nothing of value was lost.

    [–]kaitmeister 0 points1 point ago

    You're welcome. And thanks for the question, too many people come on here trying to change us without understanding our side of things.

    [–]Tordenskiold 1 point2 points ago

    What about those that don't want to pray in school? If it's the social norm to pray, it's hard for an individual to say no (And remember this is school kids, so it's even harder for them.)

    [–]Cedworth 5 points6 points ago

    I actually came across this issue when I played high school football. The coaches did not lead the pre-game prayers. One of the players would do it and everyone would stand in a circle.

    I was already pretty skeptical then, so I didn't participate really. I just used it as a moment of silence to focus my attention on the upcoming game and tuned out the words. We had one muslim player on the team as well, who probably just said his own prayer, no one ever said a word about anyone's religion. No one was reading my thoughts to make sure I was praying. It honestly was no big deal at all. It was just a moment for the team to come together and try to get a psychological edge. Some players used religion to get that edge, and it really wasn't a big deal to me at the time.

    [–]Tordenskiold 0 points1 point ago

    I totaly see that, but what if you felt pressured to become christian? Or if someone(Christian members of the team) pressured you? I feel and so apparently did she, that Schools should be religion neutral.

    [–]Kaden3 5 points6 points ago

    Hrmm. I think prayer should be allowed in school, but it shouldn't be mandatory. And honestly I thought that's what prayer in school was. If prayer in school means it's mandatory to pray in school, then yes I'm against it.

    [–]readzalot1 10 points11 points ago

    Individuals have always been allowed to pray in school. Any time, any where. They just cannot disturb others while they do it. People who want "prayer in school" usually are in favor of Christian prayers led by an adult where those do not pray have to opt out.

    [–]Kaden3 4 points5 points ago

    Ok, that's what I was asking about.

    [–]Their_Police 2 points3 points ago

    I hope you enjoy your stay here. If someone gets upset at any of your questions, first let me apologize in advance, and secondly let me offer a possible explanation. If you ask a question in here, chances are we've been over it time and time again, and there are probably quite a few people who feel pretty strongly about it, so if they are rude, they may just not know how to express their confusion by seeing someone who doesn't see it from their point of view.

    I really hope that made sense. I should have been in bed hours ago.

    [–]Kaden3 0 points1 point ago

    Honestly I don't mind if people get upset or even outright angry at my posts. I'm a Christian posting in r/atheism so honestly I'm amazed my posts are even getting upvotes. But I'm just confused by people who think that because I'm a Christian, I hold the same beliefs and am responsible for the actions of radicals who blow up buildings or murder innocent people, or the actions of the church 1500 years ago.

    [–]Their_Police 0 points1 point ago

    Not everyone thinks that.

    [–][deleted] ago

    [deleted]

    [–]Kaden3 0 points1 point ago

    I'm going to reiterate my point that there is an enormous difference between praying in school, and the school forcing people to pray.

    [–]god_killer1234567[S] 1 point2 points ago

    I could only have said it better, if i had said it my self.lol well said

    [–]Demoorelizer 3 points4 points ago

    She was also murdered if I remember correctly.

    [–]yellownumberfive 7 points8 points ago

    For reasons that had nothing to do with her philosophical or ideological positions.

    [–]Demoorelizer 0 points1 point ago

    Yep. The almighty dollar. I was just saying it for anyone who didn't know.

    [–]badcatdog 0 points1 point ago

    The lack of justice her murder received was perhaps due to her philosophical or ideological positions.

    Talkin about the local cops.

    [–]billywitchdrdotcom 1 point2 points ago

    I absolutely adore this woman. One of my favorite Madalyn Murray O'Hair quotes...

    "An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deed must be done instead of prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated." -Madalyn Murray O'Hair

    [–]TheLizardKing89 1 point2 points ago

    This quote is on the back of the 2012 American Atheist National Convention t-shirts.

    [–]billywitchdrdotcom 0 points1 point ago

    Really? That's awesome!

    [–][deleted] ago

    [deleted]

    [–]3ED9 14 points15 points ago

    According to the wikipedia article she and the other two members (her son and her granddaughter) were murdered by a David Roland Waters, who stole $500,000 from the American Atheist organization and buried their bodies on a ranch in Texas. She doesn't seem to have done anything at all that would justify your rant.

    [–]yellownumberfive 9 points10 points ago

    Even IF she stole funds (hard to imagine a scheme to rob your organization in which YOU end up dead) it wouldn't do a damn thing to diminish what she actually accomplished.

    Your kids don't have to pray every morning in public school, because of her. Atheists finally grew some fucking balls, because of her. The modern atheist movement likely wouldn't have happened without her.

    I've read plenty of damn books , I'm fully aware of the possibilities. She MAY have been a thief, but it's a shame that's all you think of when you think of her, because you owe her a helluva lot more.

    [–]KIND_OF_AN_ASS 0 points1 point ago

    SUPER STEALTH EDIT: I REPLIED TO THE WRONG COMMENT SORRY

    [–]petzl20 9 points10 points ago

    MARTIN LUTHER KING SLEPT WITH WHITE WOMEN. He cheated and he was a liar: so don't listen to anything he said.

    [Note: I'm drawing an analogy to a more sympathetic character, pointing out that the premise for his argument was irrelevant, to ridicule the previous commenter. Please keep listening to what MMO and MLK say.]

    [–]OldPete 3 points4 points ago

    If you had oversimplified his argument until it didn't make sense anymore, then that would have been reductio ad absurdum. You drew an analogy to a more sympathetic character, pointing out that you thought the premise for his argument was irrelevant.

    load more comments (12 replies)

      [–]Sin_fronteras 8 points9 points ago

      I think that the plural of "scrotum" should be "scrota."

      [–]Stone_Swan 0 points1 point ago

      scrotum, scroti, scroto, scrotum, scroto...

      (Jeez, how do I remember that?)

      [–]extravagant_penis 3 points4 points ago

      Sorry but this just isn't fair. This is like saying that every white person (I am of Canadian and Swiss descent so ironically my grand and great parents didn't own slaves) should be forever in debt to blacks. There shouldn't be a double standard with Christians. My ultra Christian friend didn't do that to atheists. He asked me if I went to church and I said "nah" and that was the end of it. He didn't exile me. Or ridicule me. So why should he (and many others like him, a grand total of zero out of hundreds of Christians I know have been mean to me or excluded me about my atheism) be blamed for others of his religion?

      Judge people on what they do now. Not what people who believe what they do did in the past. We always say Stalin, as an atheist, shouldn't be connected to us for murder. There shouldn't be a double standard with Christians. There are enough things to go after them about.

      [–]theguesser10 0 points1 point ago

      It's not saying atheists were hurt in the past so we can hurt theists now. It's putting into perspective what atheists are doing now. It's showing that arguing against religious involvement in government and schools is not in any way treating religion unfairly, it's merely standing up for your own religious beliefs.

      [–]ClassyAlpha 18 points19 points ago

      This doesn't make sense. The quote says "You" as if me, or someone else who has a religion, is the cause of the hate crimes that happened 1500 years ago. I'm sorry, but if you are using that as an excuse to treat people who aren't atheist like shit, then you are illogical, and either [1] Believe in time travel, and believe that me, the person living in 2012, caused all the pain and suffering to atheists throughout the past 1500 years, or [2] Are using this as a petty excuse to do whatever the heck you want and that you should be 'honored'. What gives you, the person living in 2012, the right to laugh at me? Because I'm offended that you mock and treat me like crap because of my religion?

      And I hear atheists say all the time that religion breeds hate. Is your solution to escalate it more by hating back? No. The solution is to try and avoid these hateful situations, and instead of always looking at the differences between atheists and theists, try and look at how they can connect. If you HONESTLY think, that because of the way theists treated atheists 1500 years ago, that atheists now have the right to mock and ridicule theists, than you are mistaken.

      [–]dmgd 12 points13 points ago

      Regarding your first paragraph, it's referring to a group of people responsible for reprehensible human rights violations, which you're well aware of. It is is understandable that new atheists will be angry about this considering the many centuries of lies and abuse perpetuated by those representing Christianity.

      The point is that the vast majority of us don't care what your religion is so long as those religious views allow equal treatment for all people. Today's religious leaders - and representatives in political office - are still denying us that equality. Advocates against equal treatment, which are given disproportionate voices because of their affiliation with Christianity, stand in the way of progress.

      Again, atheists don't especially care about religion. What we care about is equal treatment.

      [–]TheMortalOne 5 points6 points ago

      Again, atheists don't especially care about religion. What we care about is equal treatment.

      seeing r/atheism would make one think otherwise....

      [–]TimeZarg -1 points0 points ago

      Every group has extremists. I hear theists using that excuse all the time.

      [–]Kaden3 -1 points0 points ago

      excuse

      Every group does have extremists. I'm a Christian. Is it my fault Timothy McVeigh blew up a government building.

      [–]dmgd 0 points1 point ago

      If you had any knowledge of McVeigh's motivations, you wouldn't have tried to draw that parallel.

      [–]Kaden3 0 points1 point ago

      I can also tell you that since McVeigh was a white supremacist, then he was most likely a radical Christain. My point is that if every group does have extremists, and you shouldn't use them as the standard for that entire group of people.

      [–]dmgd 0 points1 point ago

      I know what your point was. The problem is that it was incorrect. McVeigh's motivations had nothing to do with religion.

      [–]Kaden3 0 points1 point ago

      But you see that my point is that Christianity is not what turns people into psychopaths? And that you shouldn't project the worst part of a group onto the whole group.

      [–]dmgd 0 points1 point ago

      We agree that Christianity doesn't turn people into psychopaths. The comment you responded to was likely referencing the idea (explained by Sam Harris here) that religious moderates enable religious extremists.

      [–]dmgd 0 points1 point ago

      I said that the vast majority doesn't care. This website is not a representative sample of atheists in the real world.

      [–]TheMortalOne 0 points1 point ago

      I know. I am not claiming that it's necessarily false, only that this subreddit doesn't really give that impression.

      [–]dmgd 0 points1 point ago

      Your response was ambiguous enough to go either way.

      [–]Hurm 1 point2 points ago

      No, we have the right to mock and ridicule regardless of that. :)

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      I think you're confusing "hating back" with laughing at you.

      [–]snowden_ -5 points-4 points ago

      1500-present. Shits ongoing. Maybe no more scrotum crushing in the west, but the violence, humiliation, and hatred still happen. Also, fuck you.

      [–]Kaden3 3 points4 points ago

      Why?

      [–]veryoriginal78 0 points1 point ago

      Because some people just like to be unnecessarily hateful. Most atheists feel, as dmdg stated, no hatred towards Christians, but are just angry at the lack of equality in our government and things of that nature. Sure, there's a lot of things I don't agree with when it comes to your religion (I saw further up that you're a Christian), but Im not going to go out of my way to shove my beliefs down your throat as long as you are respectful of mine as well.

      [–]snowden_ 0 points1 point ago

      Well, I mean, not like literally or anything. I get emotional sometimes.

      [–]Mufasa150 8 points9 points ago

      Since most theists today have absolutely nothing to do with those terrible acts I don't see how those acts can be used to justify being a dick against theists just because you're an atheist. It's sadly not uncommon for religious minorities to be persecuted but two wrongs don't make a right. Do you want a world of equal hate or a world of equal respect and understanding?

      Please r/atheism, don't justify your bad behavior with being atheist. I'm an atheist and i would never laugh at a persons face for their religious views. You people make atheist a synonym for smug assholes and I will not fucking have it.

      [–]JamesR624 -3 points-2 points ago

      Yes but they are SUPPORTING AND SPREADING the religion that is responsibility for these things. Under your logic, we shouldn't blame someone for actively NOT reporting witness to a serial killer or robbery. We should just let him go. These people are to blame for being accessories to ignorance. They are TRYING to spread ignorance, false hope, laziness, and lack of responsibility, and they SHOULD be ridiculed and prosecuted for that.

      [–]Kaden3 4 points5 points ago

      You think Christianity supports murder?

      [–]JamesR624 0 points1 point ago

      Uh, duh.

      [–]Kaden3 3 points4 points ago

      I'm not even going to get into this kind of argument, because there's no winning it against someone like you.

      [–]purplestgiraffe -1 points0 points ago

      I'd like to address your question with the intent to be helpful, if I may. There are many Christian groups that support extreme measures to ensure their causes- like shooting abortion doctors, as one example. The Old Testament is full of tales of a vengeful god commanding his children to rain death upon his/their enemies. It is an extreme oversimplification to conclude from those facts that "Christianity as a whole supports murder in general", but then that guy commenting up there is a dick.

      [–]Kaden3 3 points4 points ago

      Yeah, I've heard those stories. But like you said that's a far stretch to just say that Christianity condones murder in general.

      [–]Chimpi 2 points3 points ago

      Let me kindly point out stuff like this. I can't remember the last time I read about death threats coming from atheists en-masse.

      [–]Kaden3 5 points6 points ago

      Yeah but you can't take an extremist part of any group and then project that on to the entire group. For instance, are you liberal?

      [–]kent_eh -1 points0 points ago

      Ok, so the popes and bishops who started the Spanish Inquisition, and the witch hunts were just un-representative extremist parts of the group too?

      Or the Crusades?

      [–]Chimpi -2 points-1 points ago

      I never projected anything onto the whole population. That is just an example of how intolerant some religious folks can get. Those who are supposed to be taught to preach for peace and love from their religion are spewing death threats. Religion may not condone violence, but it sure doesn't do anything to condemn it. I've never heard of a preacher publicly say, "don't go around killing atheists." Ever.

      edit: That was a don't. Don't go around killing atheists.

      [–]MooseCaca 0 points1 point ago

      A Christian just killed a bunch of Sikhs. Religion CAN be dangerous. Especially when scripture is taken literally.

      [–]Kaden3 -1 points0 points ago

      And if god is real, do you think that guy is going to get into heaven?

      [–]MooseCaca 1 point2 points ago

      If he repents, absolutely. According to Catholic beliefs, if your baptized you're pretty much golden.

      But I don't believe in heaven or hell. I know that a lot of people are in pain because their loved ones are dead from a domestic terrorist attack brought on because he believed it was God's will.

      [–]purplestgiraffe 0 points1 point ago

      A lot of us are much more concerned with the pain he caused here on Earth than where if anywhere he ends up after death.

      [–]kent_eh 0 points1 point ago

      He probably believed he will.

      The same as the Islamic suicide bombers fully believe that they will get into their heaven.

      Yet, up until they act, their faith gives them a free pass to spout all sorts of crazy ideas and, because they are saying it in a religious context, they are exempt from criticism or scrutiny.

      [–]TheLizardKing89 0 points1 point ago

      Ask George Tiller.

      [–]Kaden3 1 point2 points ago

      Is George Tiller god?

      [–]TheLizardKing89 0 points1 point ago

      Nope, just one of his victims.

      [–]Kaden3 1 point2 points ago

      So in other words you're telling me to intentionally go to someone that would skew the discussion?

      [–]HCPwny 0 points1 point ago

      Have you read the Bible?

      [–]Kaden3 1 point2 points ago

      Have you heard of the 10 commandments?

      [–]kent_eh 1 point2 points ago

      You may be surprised to find that most atheists not only have read them, we have done so from multiple versions of the bible, and have endlessly debated them.

      To save myself a lot of typing, I'll let the late Mr Hitchens explain it.

      [–]HCPwny 0 points1 point ago

      Yes, I have. But I'll ask again. Have you read the Bible? I have. It condones murder many times, for many reasons, most of which say it is justifiable.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      Well it does tell you to kill your neighbor if he works on the sabbath. It also tells you to kill homosexuals and to stone unruly children. And nowhere does it say "Christianity". The Islamic texts states over and over that you must slaughter those who insult Islam.

      [–]Mufasa150 0 points1 point ago

      "Yes but they are SUPPORTING AND SPREADING the religion that is responsibility for these things. Under your logic, we shouldn't blame someone for actively NOT reporting witness to a serial killer or robbery."

      Are you serious? So you believe that all religious people want to murder you? (See? I can jump to conclusions too!)

      "These people are to blame for being accessories to ignorance. They are TRYING to spread ignorance, false hope, laziness, and lack of responsibility, and they SHOULD be ridiculed and prosecuted for that."

      "These people"? Are you realizing you sound exactly as the religious extremists with the only difference that you are on the other side of the spectrum?

      As Kaden3 said, there is no point in taking an argument with someone like you, your mind is far too closed.

      [–]SamuraiJakkass86 -1 points0 points ago

      The reality is, as I can safely say from the standpoint of someone whose been a non-believer their whole life (raised by people who didnt care either way about religion/or lack there of) - that the ridicule I've endured from my peers, my friends parents, even my own mother-in-law - is that although we aren't burned at the stake or sent to jail for our crimes of blasphemy anymore, that there is still a very noticeable fraction of that faction that wishes we could still be flayed for our lack of beliefs. The only thing keeping it from happening is the law in most cases, and the fear of organized retribution.

      [–]Mufasa150 0 points1 point ago

      I'm also raised in a non-believing home and I've never been ridiculed because of my (lack of) religion, but I know that not every atheist have it as good as us atheists from Sweden. My point wasn't that atheists no longer are persecuted (they are extremely persecuted in many places) but that atheists (especially those from the western world) shouldn't use thousands of years of persecution as an excuse to disrespect religious people and religion, as I said; two wrongs don't make a right.

      [–]TheLegendOfThad 6 points7 points ago

      LETS REPOST THIS QUOTE MORE JUST VARY THE WAY IT'S LAID OUT. UNLIMITED UPBOATS!!!

      [–]squigs 4 points5 points ago

      No they didn't.

      Seriously, where's all the evidence that the religious were victimising atheists for all that time? They were victimising people who worshipped the same god in a different way.

      And who are the "you" she's referring to? Are there 1500 year old people who did that, or does she believe that the sins of the father are inherited?

      As for Madalyn Murray O' Hare - here's what she personally did against the religious:

      • Mocked Phil Donahue simply for being religious
      • Broke contact with her son for not being an atheist
      • Filed a lawsuit attempting to restrict the Apollo astronauts from expressing their faith.

      She also stole a good deal of money from American Atheists.

      Oh, and she was never a doctor. A Juris Doctor is not the same thing.

      This woman represents the worst of atheism. Please be aware of this if you want to post her quotes.

      [–]TheLizardKing89 1 point2 points ago

      She didn't steal money, she was forced to withdraw the money at gunpoint and then killed.

      [–]badcatdog -3 points-2 points ago

      Filed a lawsuit attempting to restrict the Apollo astronauts from expressing their faith.

      When they are on Govt payroll hours, making giant steps for mankind. If that's not a situation to be secular, I don't know what is.

      Mocked Phil Donahue simply for being religious

      Cultists are funny.

      [–]TimeKillerSP 0 points1 point ago

      that's why we only send robots now.

      [–]PlasticDemon 4 points5 points ago

      And we should all hate Germans for what happened 70 years ago.

      [–]Mattycore 1 point2 points ago

      That's exactly the same point. The nazis don't exist anymore. Christians still do and still believe in the same ideas of death to all who don't follow their ways. That's the point.

      [–]PlasticDemon 3 points4 points ago

      Nazis do still exist, and we ridicule them. Christians who actively have atheists torn apart by horses don't exist anymore.

      You could talk to 10 Christians. I'd be surprised if you could find 1 in those 10 who still thinks atheists should be burnt at the stake. Vocal minority and all that.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      So which Nazi groups are activly killing Jews again? It's the same concept. The ideas (religious texts) are there but our society has hopefully evolved beyond the actual killing. I would also like to point you to the middle east, since the quote never mentions "Christians". Now tell me no one kills in the name of religion anymore.

      [–]itsacrookedhole 1 point2 points ago

      Riiiight. The current population of religious did it. My buddy Tyrael also blames me for slavery...

      [–]Chimpi -2 points-1 points ago

      Yeah, we should all just conveniently ignore history. It's not like it repeats itself or anything.

      [–]itsacrookedhole 1 point2 points ago

      Yea, very likely the far right leaning Christians will start holding public hangings and burning people alive. Probably tomorrow.

      [–]Chimpi 1 point2 points ago

      Probably, and I wouldn't leave it off the table with the religious right now wanting to kidnap babies from gay couples. Just because it's "the future" doesn't mean human reasoning is too.

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      Yes! Again the small percentage of of the religious right represents everyone! You guys should just watch all of the media coverage of Westboro Baptist Church. That's pretty much how all Christians are. Similar to looking at reddit to gather an opinion of atheists.

      [–]Chimpi 0 points1 point ago

      I'm glad we got all that sorted out. Just ease up on the words you're putting in my mouth next time, it's suffocating me a little.

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      Just taking things out of context and applying it sarcatically...not putting words in your mouth. Big difference.

      [–]Chimpi 0 points1 point ago

      No, I'm pretty sure that between me giving an example of why something shouldn't be overlooked and you overly stretching it and applying it to every Christian on Earth, is in fact putting words in my mouth because--get this--I never said it!

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      You're reminding me of Mark Wahlberg in The Other Guys...you know when he's not understanding the federal reserve? I joked Christians would be burning people alive...you said don't take it off the table because history repeats itself (not in that order). I SARCASTICALLY.....never mind. I'd be better off explaining this to a bag of empty coke cans.

      [–]Chimpi 0 points1 point ago

      See, for how real that once was and maybe, possibly could happen again I didn't even consider it sarcasm. And instead of rational argument we finally we started with the put-downs, excellent. Proving that the apples fall close to their trees since 0 AD.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      It doesn't matter if it is a minority that goes around and kills people in the name of "god", it's still an issue. If said religion did not exist, said people would not go around killing people.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      I would like to point you to the middle east.

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      People kill people in the Midwest in the name of drugs more often than religion. We are just used to drug related murder so nobody gives a shit anymore.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      Ment east, not west T_T

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      Who said I follow their belief system? I am far from it. I'm the rare breed that understands that just because I was raised with a Christian background doesn't mean I am a good christian. I have atheist friends that I consider better people than many "Christians" I know. What I am getting at...people's perception of the bible, kuran, or twilight will dictate how they act.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      You = religious people, as i assumed you argued from that position. And it's just those "perceptions" that would not exist if nobody got their morals from bronze-age myths and legends. And don't get at me with "Well I'M a good Christian, i would never hurt someone because god tells me to in the bible! Those verses are just symbolic!" That's like saying you're a Nazi, except you don't believe in the anti-seminism part. THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU CALLING YOURSELF A NAZI?

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      Did you even read what I wrote? I said I don't claim to be a good Christian. I don't even qualify for what I would call Christians. I had a Christian upbringing. I don't hurt people because myarents taught me that it isn't okay to hurt people. Nothing religious there. You are making assumptions instead of reading what I wrote.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      But you are arguing "for the religious side" of things. Therefore the "you" i wrote was ment to represent the side of which you were arguing for, not you personally.

      [–]itsacrookedhole 0 points1 point ago

      Unless you meant east. Which I will be the first to say. If you look where Muslim extremists are with their current values. I would point you to Christianity in the dark ages.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      And that is the baseline argument. Religious people discriminate, committ acts of violence and even kill people because it said so in some book. The thing is, even if Muslims some day realise that what they are doing is horrible and causes unimaginable ammounts of suffering they will still be reading the same damn book. The same goes for Christians. I never attack a person, i attack his beliefs. Even if you do not commit these acts yourself, remember that you are following the exact same belief system that caused these things to happen.

      [–]TimeKillerSP 0 points1 point ago

      that's why christians are afraid you're going to send them to a gulag.

      [–]Chimpi 0 points1 point ago

      Yay! We get our very own turn. Finally!

      [–]arrowtootheknee -1 points0 points ago

      I used to be friends with blacks that blamed me for slavery, but then I took an arrow too the knee!

      [–]fuckrightTHEFUCKoff 1 point2 points ago

      I feel genuine pity and concern for you. Take my upvote, friend.

      [–]nervoustwit -1 points0 points ago

      I crushed scrotums? Me? Down vote away.

      [–]2plus2make4 2 points3 points ago

      Im sure it was said under stress, and even though it is historically accurate I don't like blaming people today for things that strangers did a thousand years ago. Anyone advocating those things today would be considered a monster.

      [–]Xaira89 0 points1 point ago

      The only problem with that statement is that it is, indeed, advocated by many today in most of the Middle East, Africa, Asia, and less developed parts of Europe. Even Americans and those in more developed parts of the world are still, to an extent that most would seem outrageous,, discriminated against for their lack of religion.

      [–]2plus2make4 0 points1 point ago

      Those views are barborous - today or historically.

      I think we do our cause a disservice by holding current living and civil people accountable for actions of others who have been dead a thousand years.

      [–]Xaira89 0 points1 point ago

      You know, I get this response a lot when I bring up the historical repression of atheists. I would, then, invite you to participate in a thought experiment with me.

      If I walked up to you and said, "I am a Nazi," would you think that I was involved in a party that caused the greatest happiness rating in Germany for the last century, the most productive citizens, and fostered a very powerful sense of nationalism? Or would you relate that statement to "I hate Jews?"

      Just because something has good points in it does not wipe the slate of the horrors and destruction a group causes, especially if human rights are involved.

      [–]2plus2make4 0 points1 point ago

      No you are missing the point, we should not be holding people guilty for the moral crimes of strangers a thousand years ago. Let's hold people accountable for their own actions, if they happen to share the violent views of those in history then im with you - but we both know that most people who self identify as religious are not like this. Some are, which is unfortunate.

      In your thought experiment, someone self identifying as a nazi in today's world is more likely to hold views on the oppression others. It is not the label I condemn but the views on oppression and violence.

      Your position is advocating for something that every secular legal system has rejected.

      [–]Xaira89 0 points1 point ago

      I am not, of course, saying that we should take any sort of action against most religious people, especially not a discriminatory one, based upon their ancestors.

      But, that being said, one must go back to the very basis of the quotation that we're discussing, and that is that we, an non-believers, have suffered historically in repressive and violent fashions. Is it then, ultimately, fair for a lot of the religious types, now that they cannot work those same evils upon us, to scream and rage at us for poking fun?

      I'm not saying that we should start burning Christians at the stake or denying them rights based upon their religion. That would leave us in the same cesspool as we began in. That being said, I will be ultimately happy when a Christian and an atheist, are both equal on a societal and legal level. It's not perfect, but it's the perfect compromise.

      [–]2plus2make4 0 points1 point ago

      I didn't say I had any problem with poking fun. Poke away.

      Nb they are not even necessarily ancestors, just other long dead people.

      [–]niggertown 0 points1 point ago

      Well it's not like the people who you are laughing at are the ones who oppressed your past-self. It seems rather silly to get revenge while not being oppressed by someone who has not oppressed you.

      I bet this guy goes around tripping old church ladies.

      [–]errbodiesmad -1 points0 points ago

      How many times will this be posted before people just memorize it by heart?

      [–]MikeBone -1 points0 points ago

      You also ruin people's eyesight with bright red backgrounds. I couldn't even tell which link was blue or purple afterwards!!

      [–]mitchellele -1 points0 points ago

      uhuh, yeh, mmm, yep, uhuh, yuh, mmm. "crush their strotums" wince OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH. uhuh, yeh

      [–]nice_letch -1 points0 points ago

      Can we add "forced them to read text and background combinations that make your eyes go 'aaaaaaaaaaaaaarg!'" to her list? :)

      [–]dayo106 0 points1 point ago

      there is actually quite a bit of discrimination against atheists in a number of states. for example, in Arkansas state constitution, it says No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court. that was kind of disappointing to find out.

      [–]KrimsonTide 1 point2 points ago

      Wow. That really changed my perspective on Atheists. I guess I'm sorry that religious people have done stuff like that to you. But it still isnt an excuse to be an asshole.

      [–]rolandzero 0 points1 point ago

      Yeah, the nerve to post this quote for the fiftieth fucking time this month.

      [–]smeaglelovesmaster 0 points1 point ago

      Yikes. She's kinda touchy.

      [–]markshark17 0 points1 point ago

      The only problem with this argument is that the "you" in this quote is responsible for exactly zero of the things the "you" is accused of. That makes it pretty hard to take this post seriously.

      [–]Caek_Eater 0 points1 point ago

      Same book different time. Also I'm not buying all this "Atheist hate". Last time I checked it was still the religious publicly condemning and marginalizing atheists.

      Can't sit there and tell me that Atheists are the ones being aggressive, when there "aggressive and rude" comments are literally message board comments on obscure websites. Compare that to the platform the religious are still spewing hate and disinformation from.

      [–]GregorMendel 0 points1 point ago

      This is pretty familiar. Check out Letter to the Editor #4.

      [–]santa26 0 points1 point ago

      Too long to read..

      [–]tortillandbeans 0 points1 point ago

      Isn't this some kind of logical fallacy because the people alive(no matter how scumbag) didn't actually do it themselves?

      [–]tomjen 0 points1 point ago

      Not really. It is true that they didn't (hopefully) commit those acts themself but they are still commited to those who do it.

      If you join the nazi party today, you don't get to complain that the holocaust was 'those other guys'.

      Note that this only applies to things people join. Race, sexual orientation, place of birth, etc and exempted because you cannot be guilty of a sin you have not committed.

      [–]nrjk 0 points1 point ago

      I read that in a most enraged manner. Afterwards, I was relaxed. A philosophicalquickiefap, if you will. Very nice.

      [–]thedreamings 0 points1 point ago

      To be completely fair, the same things have happened to Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Native Americans, early Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Gypsies, Pagans, and all minorities. No one is entitled to anything more than common courtesy and what they have worked for in their life.

      [–]Violaer 0 points1 point ago

      Dude, stop giving them ideas...

      [–]Missunify 1 point2 points ago

      Past actions don't exactly justify current retaliation.

      [–]dmgd 4 points5 points ago

      For what? Laughing?

      [–]First-Google-Image 1 point2 points ago

      http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/img/nervecell.gif

      [–]Traptin_85 -1 points0 points ago

      some fundies would read this and think "hmm, that's a pretty good idea..."

      [–]Mattycore 1 point2 points ago

      Yeah and that's the point. Christians still believe in these punishments for not accepting the bible and god.

      [–]RepostThatShit -1 points0 points ago

      You're upset about a wrong you didn't suffer, at people who aren't responsible for it happening. Congratulations.

      [–]SooSlow -1 points0 points ago

      Sorry, but this is as bad an argument that I owe black people reparations because of how I treated their ancestors.

      [–]ZombieFaceXP -1 points0 points ago

      because of how my ancestors treated their ancestors

      Ftfy

      [–]Notblackandwhite -1 points0 points ago

      Maybe he/she is like me and our ancestors didn't come to the U.S. until after slavery. My great grandparents emigratted here in the early 1900's from Italy and Germany and worked damn hard to earn their keep, one of them dying of black lung from the mines he worked in. So fuck anyone who thinks that I owe another person anything because of how their ancestors were treated

      [–]doejinn -1 points0 points ago

      This country was built by slaves and then you come over here when all the hard work is done and expect to reap the rewards without paying for it to the poor black men and women who did all that work? No!! You come to this country you pay the toll and you don't get no get out of jail free card, no siree, you can cut all that mafioso shit right out.

      [–]Notblackandwhite 0 points1 point ago

      Not sure if you're serious or not, but I'll respond anyway.

      built by slaves

      Yeah, there weren't any indentured servants who came over to the U.S. and suffered away in an identical fashion. Slavery as an institution was fought over endlessly and while it built an agricultural economy in the south, immigrants in factories raised the north to an industrial powerhouse, which is one of the reasons the north won the Civil War

      hard work is done

      Christ, where to start. Okay, some things my family did after they arrived in the U.S. after slavery

      *Great Grandfather worked on the Panama Canal before contracting Malaria and being brought to the U.S. where he became a citizen, worked in a coal mine before getting to open his own business * Both grandfathers fought in WWII and Korea, five Great Uncles fought in WWII as well, one grandfather was training to invade Japan when the A-bombs fell, he probably would have died *Grandparents built farms out of nothing out in the midwest with zero help

      without paying for it to the poor black men and women who did all that work?

      Slavery was a horrible practice that should be despised. The slavery of primarily blacks in the U.S. that continued until 1865 was one of the worst instances in all of history when owners could afford to work their slaves to death because it was cheaper to just buy new ones. With all due respect to those men, women, and children who died in those fields, what do they want? They're dead and gone. We remember them by continuing to fight for civil liberties for everyone. They are dead and gone and nothing changes the horrible lives they were forced to lead

      pay the toll

      What you get in this life you have to earn. Every penny I own I earned. Not a damn other person deserves it. Here's my problem with reparations. The people demanding them want a handout because of something that happened to some distant ancestor. That is the biggest spit in the face anyone could give those people's memory. Do you think anyone who was laboring in the cotton fields of Georgia or the sugar fields in Louisiana wanted a free handout so they could relax? No, they wanted freedom and a chance to earn their own fortune. They wanted what is often called the American Dream. I'm sure anyone of them would be ashamed to see their descendants demand money because of long dead suffering. You're pissing on their grave and their sacrifice

      [–]unlikeliest -1 points0 points ago

      this is the most visually assaulting image i've seen today. worst color choices.

      [–]emokneegrow 1 point2 points ago

      Isn't this argument the same thing as blacks saying white people alive today are responsable for slavery?

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      Morality changes, religious texts does not.

      [–]emokneegrow 0 points1 point ago

      I have personally bitched about how much the bible changes from version to version and how much it has changed over time. Yes it does change.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      Not in the original sense of the bible being the word of god. The literal word of god doesn't stop being that after a certain ammount of time. That's what im getting at.

      [–]emokneegrow 0 points1 point ago

      There is no god therefor there is no word of god. The same rules apply to anything that can change.

      [–]Bjoernzor 0 points1 point ago

      wha...what? I'm arguing that religious ideas won't change because the believers think that it is the eternal word of god. Or at least, in the texts it says that it is the eternal word of god.

      [–]LouisianaHotSauce -1 points0 points ago

      This is all true and horrible, but here's the real issue: this hasn't happened to any atheists today, nor have any christians committed such horrendous acts such as these in a very, very long time. The real issue is that we need to accept everyone's opinions/views/whatthefuckever rather than belittle them for them.

      [–]Enrys 0 points1 point ago

      But Christians were persecuted by atheists and other non Christians too!

      ^ Anybody got an answer for this?

      [–]Me_is_Bored -1 points0 points ago

      Thats the same logic as saying german people of today are still responsible for what bullshit Mr. Hitler pulled. Bullshit logic.

      While I agree, that them complaining about atheists is bs, when some of them are just ignorant and hatefull towards people who believe different, this is just a stupid approach to make other people agree with you.

      [–]KancerFox -3 points-2 points ago

      That's the same as saying black people are allowed to be prejudice against white people, because a long time ago some white people had blacks slaves.

      [–]poopyfarts -2 points-1 points ago

      all the quotes i see posted in athiesm are so looooooooooooong

      [–]doejinn 0 points1 point ago

      "The truth is short and simple, the lie is long and complicated."-Bertrand Russell

      [–]2latenow 0 points1 point ago

      Pretty ridiculous bigotry.

      [–]kaitmeister -1 points0 points ago

      Blaming modern Christians for the treatment of Atheists in the past is like blaming modern white people for the treatment of slaves. Blame the religion all you want, but the people? Really? If you're making fun of them for believing in something, a lot of the time it's unprovoked, and yeah, they can complain. They were not the ones who did all those things to Atheists.

      [–]masterm -1 points0 points ago

      The sins of the father are not that of the son.

      [–]mrthewaffinator -2 points-1 points ago

      waaaaiit waaaaiit, oh yeah. You can't blame someone for the shit people did 1500 years ago.

      [–]Mattycore 1 point2 points ago

      It still happens...

      [–]mrthewaffinator -2 points-1 points ago

      just to make things quick,

      brutal violence:Not in the majority of the civilized world.

      discrimination and humiliation: mostly in incredibly ignorant parts of the U.S.

      [–]L33tR3dd1t -4 points-3 points ago

      These posts are getting really annoying, what the fuck /r/atheism, start making good posts again.

      [–]Yugeulb -3 points-2 points ago

      TIL that people can live for over 1500 years.

      [–]PaeP3nguin -2 points-1 points ago

      Yet another repost by the noble philosopher, "godkiller1234567", a professional r/atheism poster. Who upvotes this stuff?

      [–]subminute -4 points-3 points ago

      The nerve to think ill read more than 2 words of that shitty compression image

      [–]ace12112 0 points1 point ago

      Now let me tell you what we used to do with balcks 200 years ago...

      load more comments (1 reply)

        Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. © 2012 reddit inc. All rights reserved.

        REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc.

        π Rendered by PID 16149 on app-117 running b126d3d.