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all 118 comments

[–]antiproton 43 points44 points ago

And then nature destroys your carefully constructed orc breeding pit.

[–]Jaccington 2 points3 points ago

Fuck you Mother Nature you bitch.

[–]Lampjaw 17 points18 points ago

NUCLEAR COOLING TOWERS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

[–]Memoren 2 points3 points ago

lol, all they emit is water vapor, not the huge clouds of smoke shown in the picture.

[–]baltakatei 2 points3 points ago

I noticed this too. The only thing those "nuke towers" do is evaporate water for the nuclear power plant (which usually sits nearby). It's just a scaled up swamp cooler. The water evaporated usually comes from filtered river water from nearby and is only used to carry away waste heat absorbed from the reactor housing, and is not radioactive. And they certainly do not bellow out black smoke by design.

[–]videogameexpert 59 points60 points ago

Last time this was posted someone pointed out that the logging industry is almost entirely eco-friendly and demonizing them doesn't help the environment very much at all. I felt bad, but this is still my desktop background because I like chess.

[–]speakeazy 22 points23 points ago

Forester here, it is incredibly wasteful and uneconomical to not replant and have a grid you work through. Anyone who likes money takes the eco-friendly route, and it's the same when we do a prescribed burn on a forest. I really cannot stress how much I hate the term clear cutting because of all the images it puts in peoples' heads - they are thinking of deforestation. A ton of my education was focused on how to cut a forest and replant in the most efficient, pro-environment way. Additionally, younger trees and new growth have a more rapid respiration rate, so keeping a young forest is good for the environment in that way too.

I'm American, so please keep in mind I only know how it's done in the US and Canada, with a little knowledge of how the UK's, Australia's and New Zealand's programs work. (New Zealand's is awesome by the way.) Private companies here have to follow very strict regulations and the USDA has a retarded amount of bureaucracy. I can not speak for the well known offenders (fucking Brazil) as I have no idea what the hell they're doing.

Deforestation on the other hand can blow me. Tearing up good land and wrecking the soil when you could just go build over Detroit or something. It has also made it a fucking circus for the forest service to get anything done, because every angry liberal or raging PETA member feels the need to email me about shit they know nothing about. Try marking a forest for a cut or prescribed burn without some college dropout deciding they know more about trees than you. /rant

I can't explain enough to people that foresters, who frequently retire as loggers or at least keep in close company with them, fucking love trees.

[–]Arvald 2 points3 points ago

i actually have some forestry questions (mostly regarding the schooling) if you have time to humor me.

[–]speakeazy 4 points5 points ago

Yeah definitely, I have only positive things to say about the schooling. I went to Virginia Tech, and my dad (who is a forest supervisor) also went there. An awesome thing about the schooling is how transferable it is. You could work right under the USDA, or go through the forest service, there's always a ranger job, you could fly helicopters, etc. You get a very wide option between sitting in an office or being outside all the time. There are also a lot of great side programs that the forest service stays involved in. My dad, and a lot of other forestry guys are on a FEMA team, and my understanding is that it's a ton of crisis control and clean up. Then there's forest fire fighting, which you learn a lot about in school. Forest fire fighting is not only cool as shit, but pays. A lot. You don't get burnt out (har har) on it either since there's a season for it, you get to travel and see a ton of landscape that is off the beaten path. My brother is a smoke jumper too, which is certainly one of the most badass jobs ever. Forest fire fighting + skydiving. Oh yeah, almost forgot, my dad's girlfriend is a game warden and went to school for forestry and then ornithology.

So yeah, I'm sure between my forester family I can answer absolutely any question you got. Edit: retard formatting.

[–]Arvald 1 point2 points ago

sweet, i was actually looking into getting a forest/park ranger job up here in utah, and as i understand, it is recommended you have some kind of bachelors degree, so i was thinking of going to school for some kind of forestry as a major, and something like recreations management, any thoughts/recommendations on this?

[–]speakeazy 2 points3 points ago

A bachelors is definitely recommended. Forest resource management is, I'm assuming at most schools, under the forestry department. It's probably the most "useful" as far as I'm concerned. My dad took that degree and is about thirty years ahead of me in the career field and has been a forest supervisor for almost ten years. Forest supervisor is just about as high up as you get, and last time I did his taxes he was making at least 140k. It's also a pretty sweet government job, the normal bureaucracy but a lot of the people in forestry are pretty well rounded and interesting. Since it's encouraged to participate in forest fire fighting and other programs like that, you end up being around a lot of people that know what it's like to do real work, have seen their fair share of sights, etc.

Of course, if being a ranger interests you most there is a specific ranger degree, although you could probably still get the job with something like a resource management degree. If the options are between a forest and park ranger, try to go for forest. The park service is under the department of interiors and the forest is under the department of agriculture. There's a lot of room to move up in ag, and not a whole lot of money for parks. Also, this might be some personal bias, but the park service is just.. meh. Meticulous, annoying, bureaucratic. Lots of annoying tourists. Hope this helps, let me know if there's anything else you want to know.

[–]MrxPeaches 5 points6 points ago

Agreed. I also would play this game

[–]AbstracTyler 23 points24 points ago

There's still a lot of clear cutting happening around the world. That's not eco-friendly.

[–]FourOfFiveDentists 8 points9 points ago

Seriously. Not all logging companies replant. Not to mention all the pollutants from the machines that find their way into the environment. Also, a forest does not regrow over night (or a generation for that matter), nore do the animals that die out because of habitat loss.

[–]boxtop 11 points12 points ago

I think you have the wrong idea of logging. I've taken trips up to northern maine where there are basically only logging roads up there. They don't just cut every tree down. The only harvest specific species and specific sizes. This allows the forest to still be a forest.

[–]Memoren 5 points6 points ago

Any clear cutting that is going on is almost certainly not from logging companies, they buy huge tracks of land for the sole purpose of harvesting wood. If they didn't replant they would destroy their own source of income and in the process destroy themselves.

[–]Dr_Wreck 5 points6 points ago

You're miss-informed. Eco-friendly logging mimics the same sort of destruction experienced naturally by wildfires-- which would be dozens of times more common than they are because of humans preventing them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

or a generation for that matter

VP of a land management/mineral leasing corp here.

You're a fucking idiot.

[–]FourOfFiveDentists -1 points0 points ago

A VP of a mineral leasing corp says it does not take generations for Flora and Fauna to recover? Geeze go figure! The guy who makes money off the process sees it that way. The fact is you are wrong.

I have seen this first hand. There are areas in my home state of West Virginia that underwent mountain top removal when my dad was young. Now he is in his 60's and I'm 27, and that land has STILL not recovered. The vegetation is not as dense as it was before, which means the food sources for wild life are not as abundant as they were before the area was mined. Because of this the animals that would have normally made there home in the area have died or left because they can't survive there anymore.

Mining or cutting wood the effect is the same. The land can recover...to a point. However, it takes generations for this to happen and it will never be the same forest it was, because that forest was cut down.

I've also read how some companies have even been caught replanting trees that are not native to the area, and that's just fucking retarded. I wish I could find the text book this was in so I could show my source, but unfortunately I graduated a year ago and lost that shit.

Will the area recover to the point where it can be harvested for profit again? Of course! What I'm talking about is a return to the natural state of things. The way an area was before people came in a fucked everything up.

EDIT: Tired from work. Had to fix some stupid mistakes I made.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

Now I understand, you're a filthy hippie.

[–]FourOfFiveDentists 0 points1 point ago

I see you are an asshole.

[–]urabunch0fassholes 1 point2 points ago

In the early 80's they clearcut miles of old growth timber behind my house.Then they sprayed herbicides all over the place.Within a few weeks our rabbits aborted and within a couple of months I was put in the hospital for severe stomach issues.Later down the road the timber company sent out a guy to test the water and they said there were no contaminates. I still don't know if this was all coincidence,but I've had a shit load of health issues ever since then.Around the same time they clearcut along a highway and the following year at keast four people died from mudslides thanks to the logging.They also take everything then they plant one species of tree.

[–]brerrabbit -1 points0 points ago

plant one species of tree

fast growing shit wood like yellow pine

[–]quadrapod 0 points1 point ago

Most of that is done for cattle.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]AbstracTyler 1 point2 points ago

By all means, enlighten us!

[–]speakeazy 1 point2 points ago

I would have just posted this initially, but I was on my phone and had just typed a giant post. On the laptop now!

Deforestation is when undeveloped land becomes developed. It's almost always permanent too, and is usually done in a reckless manner. The wood not processed correctly, animals not moved, exotic plants not relocated, that sort of thing. The clear cutting process for the forest service is incredibly delicate and detailed, and the top priority is nature's well being. Depending on the forest's integrity, we might even do what is called a prescribed burn where we dig fire lines (among other meticulous stuff) and burn off a section of the forest. It's never because we need to pave over it or something, it's because the forest's integrity had dropped below a safe line. If this isn't done, there's a very good chance the forest will ignite from lightning strikes or human involvement, and when we don't already have fire lines dug it can spread well beyond our control for weeks on end, destroying houses, perfectly good forest, etc. Some forests get "overgrown" and shrubby; this is usually the result of some sort of tree blight that kills off a main tree in that particular forest. There tends to be a lot of dead downed trees that kill undergrowth and warp the ground, causing odd pockets of water. Just generally messes with the whole balance, and eventually becomes a huge fire hazard. We do everything we can to prevent the forest from getting to that stage, but dealing with pine beetles and gypsy moths in a massive forest isn't exactly easy. The whole thing takes a lot of time and there are a ton of people consulted; foresters, loggers, biologists, ornithologists, etc. Nobody in the forest service can just decide "hey let's cut this forest down," which is apparently what some people actually think. Before any action is taken, there's a huge plan laid out about the recovery. Ideally, a whole forest comes back to "normal" in about twenty years. That's a really general statement, and of course there are numerous factors that alter it or even encourage it. But yeah, twenty or so years. Might sound like a lot, but think about how long nuclear waste lasts. How long we have until oil runs out, that sort of thing. Furthermore, if you cycle the forest correctly you can maintain a perfectly healthy forest while still cutting bits. Conversely, I've seen the destruction of an arboretum to build a giant concrete circlejerk. The only trees and plants that were saved are the ones that me, my dad and some other forestry people took. Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

Edit: I also wanted to let everyone know that the forest service doesn't use pesticides and herbicides the way some other people are describing. We use ladybugs, certain fungus, etc. We also spend a lot of time cultivating the soil so that when plants grow back it's in a healthier foundation, so ideally we won't have to burn it off anymore. We also try to keep invasive species out when reseeding (kudzu, mainly) and nuisance trees like the Virginia pine. The Virginia pine is a scrubby, shitty tree that barely keeps a full plume and catches on fire like nothing else. It also has one of the lowest respiration rates of any tree.

Which brings me on to respiration - a younger tree, and more specifically the new growth has more respiration than older growth. The tree converts energy as a tool for growing, so the early stages of a tree have much more conversion going on. So there's that aspect too, converting about twice as much (depending on the species, there is more specific data) carbon dioxide than an old growth forest.

Don't get me wrong though, a lot of old growth forests should be kept around. National parks are good at keeping their land uncut, which lets you see things like massive sequoias, redwoods and petrified wood. There are also things called "constitutional forests," which are essentially the original trees that were here when Europe arrived. Apparently unbeknownst to most, almost the entire east coast was cut and developed or simply logged by us white devils back then. There is very rarely a tree you'll find on the east coast that's more than about 200 or 300 years old, but when you do find these forests it's probably best to keep them the way they are. Here is an example of one forest battle going on in my town right now. I haven't read this website, but it seems to be the "official" one - knowing my town, though, let me apologize for some of the hippie propaganda you may encounter there. I've walked around those woods, and most of them seem to be about ~300, with some looking closer to 350. There are also some rare trees in there. I remember seeing black oaks, which the white oaks pretty much beat at evolution some time ago. There are also a lot of cool ferns and some interesting birds. So when I talk about clear cutting, I mean stuff in the middle of the national forest or on some guy's private land - not 11 acres of old growth in the middle of town. There are about 1.8 million acres in the forest I work on, to give you some idea.

TL;DR: Shit lots of information on forests.

[–]Cythos 1 point2 points ago

can you please do an ama?

[–]speakeazy 0 points1 point ago

Hah, that's one of the nicest things any Redditor has ever said to me. I'm down, but I think it'd be more interesting with my dad (forest supervisor) and my brother's (smoke jumper, forest fire fighter) input too. We all live pretty close and hang out a lot, so I'll work on that.

[–]Cythos 1 point2 points ago

honestly, the way you portray your ideas so clearly and defined with what seems to be a fairly neutral portrayal of all that goes on behind the scenes, it'd be fantastic to hear more from you (although, i don't know how many people would actually be interested other than i). It's always wonderful to have more information disseminated into the populace. after all, being less ignorant never directly hurt anyone.

[–]speakeazy 0 points1 point ago

Well thanks! I try to stay pretty neutral and informative. I like trees, and I don't really have any other agenda to push.

So even if only three or four people read it, it'll still be three or four people with a better understanding of something useful that's been demonized. Might as well.

[–]AbstracTyler 0 points1 point ago

Thanks for typing out that response, and you're welcome; I did read it all. It's good to have the perspective of someone who actually works in forestry to dispel some of our misinformation.

It seems to me that you work on maintaining forests, which is cool. There are people out there who work in other industries who do clear cut with no emphasis on the health of the forest, though. I'd like to get the perspective of someone who does that for a living, see what they would have to say about it. I'm talking about the drastic reduction of the Amazon rainforest click here for the wikipedia article, and other similar stories going on around the world. If you don't have the time or desire to look into that article, there is a graph that shows the total coverage of the Amazon rainforest in square kilometers, and year by year how much it has shrunk since the 1970's. In 1970 the Amazon rainforest covered roughly 4.1 million square kilometers. It is now down to about 3.3 million square kilometers. That is due to direct human deforestation. I'm not a fan of that.

[–]obviousoctopus 1 point2 points ago

Thank you for explaining the process

[–]speakeazy 0 points1 point ago

Dude! Did you read this because of the original thread, or because of my rant on r/wtf? Amazing.

[–]obviousoctopus 1 point2 points ago

The rant.

[–]speakeazy 0 points1 point ago

SUCCESS. Words can't express how much I wanted more people to read this post. I copy pasta'd to my Facebook and everything. Yes, you are awesome.

[–]obviousoctopus 0 points1 point ago

The post is very informative. Consider blogging it or posting at an existing environment-oriented blog.

[–]thepwnguin 2 points3 points ago

The logging industry doesn't really need to exist.

[–]videogameexpert 1 point2 points ago

Hemp, the magical weed. Soon, very soon it will be legalized. Within our lifetimes for sure.

[–]SirRuto 1 point2 points ago

How does one get the equivalent of building lumber from hemp? I can't imagine building a house that lasts for decades out of a grass. They don't use bamboo to build modern hoses either.

[–]videogameexpert 1 point2 points ago

Similar to concrete, but with a frame due to it's lower strength. It breathes better than concrete does and is eco friendly (it actually sucks up carbon dioxide permanently). Eventually the wall will petrify and will last way longer than typical building materials.

instructional semi-boring video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZbYsMsMW4Q

[–]Remmy14 6 points7 points ago

I agree. This is just propaganda. Logging companies are required to plant and replace the forests that they cut down. It is an entirely renewable resource.

[–]Carbon_Dirt 3 points4 points ago

Depends on the country and the company, but for the most part you are correct sir. If people see them as bad, people will push for alternatives to wood products, and every breakthrough in that department would hurt their business a whole lot more than paying some guys to plant trees now and again.

[–]Warpedme 3 points4 points ago

Not in Brazil they aren't. Nor pretty much anywhere in south america, and (please someone correct my numbers here) if I remember right, that is well over 60% of the worlds rain forests.

[–]Ftumsh 3 points4 points ago

What you have written is propaganda too. Check out Brazil, Bolivia, Sumatra, and in particular Borneo.

[–]jPurch 5 points6 points ago

What about cutting down old growth forests?

[–]urabunch0fassholes 3 points4 points ago

They are cutting down a bunch of our old growth in Oregon.These people saying timber companies are all nice and eco friendly are full of shit.I've lived in Oregon my whole life,every year you hear about another community being poisoned by the aerial spraying done on clear cuts.

We have a local group that shows you just how friendly timber companies are.

[–]Master_Qief 1 point2 points ago

Do you have a higher res shot? I'd like to join you

[–]videogameexpert 1 point2 points ago

[–]Crazy_G1raffe 0 points1 point ago

brazil.

[–]I_Am_TheSnuggler[!] 5 points6 points ago

Are the rooks......Daleks??

[–]baltakatei 1 point2 points ago

EX-TER-MI-NATE.

[–]grumpybadmanners 12 points13 points ago

Industry is playing black yet it made the first move. Represents the corruption of corporations. brilliant.

[–]heylittlebuddy 4 points5 points ago

because trees can't move retard

[–]grumpybadmanners 1 point2 points ago

"making the first move" and actual mobility are not necessarily the same thing.

[–]BulletBilll 0 points1 point ago

In this case it would be mobility no?

[–]archonemis 0 points1 point ago

I noticed dark moving first as well.

The dark side moving illegally first is an interpretation that hadn't occurred to me.

UPVOTED.

[–]Thom0 27 points28 points ago

This is just fear mongering.

[–]justOrangeish 7 points8 points ago

Still looks cool.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

Can we make one between the US gov't and Iraq/Iran, then? Just make sure it looks cool though, because that's all that matters.

[–]justOrangeish 5 points6 points ago

If it was a well done piece of art I'd still say it'd look cool. Although I might not agree with it's message, art is art. And most "political art" is propaganda (good or bad). Do you mock political cartoonists because "deeerr donkeys can't talk!"

EDIT: And aside from logging in general, which is just the imagery they chose, industry does destroy nature. Regardless of their "planting trees". When a Walmart, shopping mall, highway, or housing district goes up I don't see the amount of landscape destroyed getting replaced. Look at all the polluted lakes, you wanna tell me it's fear mongering? What about The damn Great Pacific Garbage Patch? (just to name a few)

[–]QualityEnforcer 14 points15 points ago

Links to higher quality versions of the posted image:

Image (2500 x 1666, 1989 kB)

Image (2560 x 1600, 3329 kB)

[–]rojaro 0 points1 point ago

Awesome! Thank you!

[–]grahamfreeman 8 points9 points ago

Industry will win - the trees can't move.

[–]Carbon_Dirt 2 points3 points ago

But then the game doesn't progress, so in an untimed game, nature wins because they just grow like crazy with all their extra time.

[–]scottvr4 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, but in a timed game they lose by default...

[–]rasputin777 3 points4 points ago

American logging companies have been planting more trees than logging for about a century.
Oil painters on the other hand tend to use quite a few toxic chemicals and probably don't plant millions of acres of trees...

[–]trey_parkour 0 points1 point ago

Are you saying I shouldn't eat paint?

[–]srs8989 2 points3 points ago

Welcome to the 2012 Olympic Opening Ceremony.

[–]joerussel 0 points1 point ago

Industry wins. flawless victory.

[–]The_Creator_Of 2 points3 points ago

reminds me of warsong gultch

[–]fourstates 2 points3 points ago

How many artists does it take to stop the destruction of the environment? C'mon artists! We need more art! We obviously need way more cause it hasn't done shit so far.

[–]lapogo 0 points1 point ago

Tree used... clean air...

[–]Melnorme 1 point2 points ago

Larch to pine three.

[–]jyz002 -1 points0 points ago

Old

[–]peeshmack 0 points1 point ago

This reminds me of the Olympics' opening ceremony. Except that this is a beautiful contrast and the Olympics' ceremony was chaos.

[–]Capta1nPlanet 0 points1 point ago

I don't think the pieces are fair

[–]arienh4 0 points1 point ago

Greed Corp comes to mind.

[–]frostbird 0 points1 point ago

At first, I only saw minecraft with the square grass tiles. -.-

[–]speakeazy 0 points1 point ago

I can't be the only person that knows cooling towers exist to protect aquatic life. To be fair, they also kill Legionella. Meh.

[–]hpclone25 1 point2 points ago

I have seen this pic so many times this year, still cool though.

[–]SirBobbytheBlack 1 point2 points ago

Thanks for my new phone wallpaper

[–]UberGoatx 0 points1 point ago

[–]FromTheSky 0 points1 point ago

d5

[–]nanaki5282 1 point2 points ago

How come industry moved first?

[–]sea-saw 0 points1 point ago

bush to c5

[–]Drunk_Soldier 0 points1 point ago

if only this wasn't a repost

[–]ry4n4re4l 0 points1 point ago

i don't care!

[–]johnsmith9219 -1 points0 points ago

Hating the very thing that gives us all the possessions we love so much, that is true irony.

[–]archonemis 1 point2 points ago

Black doesn't move first. White moves first.

If the thinner of the tall trees is the queen that's mean that she's on the D file. A queen on the D file means she's white (unless the bord has been flipped perpendicular - which it hasn't - there's a dark square on A1). It's reversed for black: the black King is on the D file. Going back to the [tree] side; the tree with more branches seems slightly more masculine to me ([thin / elegant = feminine] as where [thick / stout = masculine]). So the thinner tree seems like the queen contextually. It's a 50/50 shot - and I don't know if it was unintentional - but at least the artist got the queens on their proper squares. That is the white queen is on a light square and the dark queen is on a dark square.

Since the only move is the pawn on the D file and it's on the dark side this was clearly drawn / [MS] painted / photoshopped by a non-chess player.

[–]bladerunner89 0 points1 point ago

I bet industry wins

[–]ekim1966 0 points1 point ago

"...and the trees are all kept equal, by hatchet, axe, and saw"

[–]Illegalsocks 0 points1 point ago

anybody know of the artist?

[–]evildustmite -1 points0 points ago

Dang!! Industry, you scary!!!

[–]CreeperCuddler 0 points1 point ago

The picture looks cool but I don't understand the chess game symbolism. How is this battle at all like chess?

Not trying to be rude, pls explain

[–]naren_kat 0 points1 point ago

That looks like mordor vs the shire

[–]tomsfoolery 0 points1 point ago

ha i was like, what game is this? ....not a game

[–]UnderstandingPrimus 0 points1 point ago

Are then making a life sized checker board?

[–]bobbysworld 0 points1 point ago

Industry will win the early battles, but nature will eventually win the war.

[–]bieberaugustus 0 points1 point ago

Except nature would be nothing but pawns.

[–]Alexmcawesome 0 points1 point ago

Industrialization for the win

[–]amontes92 0 points1 point ago

how did nature trim it's grass like that?

[–]jablome 0 points1 point ago

Nature gave birth to humans and thus industry.

[–]arrbez 0 points1 point ago

Relevant: the real life border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic:

http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com/uploads/images/article-images/haiti-border.gif

[–]SolidSyco 0 points1 point ago

I'd play the shit outta that chess

[–]trey_parkour 0 points1 point ago

There's no way in hell that tiny fire line is hot enough to go through green grass like that.

[–]lolsail 1 point2 points ago

For some reason I expected armoured bears.

[–]DropxBox 0 points1 point ago

If these were the knights it would be game over.

[–]GidbinN 1 point2 points ago

Radiant vs Dire

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

GRAAAH! NATURE GOOOOOD, DEVELOPMENT BAAAD!

[–]MagCynic -1 points0 points ago

Yes, it's exactly like that.