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all 48 comments

[–]Pudgyhipster 48 points49 points ago

Well, that and the whole dead parents thing.

[–]bayb 17 points18 points ago

That and not being able to save Jason. That was sucky.

[–]Pudgyhipster 19 points20 points ago

And the guilt of everyone he hasn't been able to save because he refuses to kill. And Barbra's paralysis. Come to think of it, there's a lot of negatives to being Batman.

[–]Ozlin 5 points6 points ago

I have good news for you both! Jason is alive and Barbra can walk! Hooray retcons! Take THAT heartbreaking stories that influence a character's growth and (in the case of Barbra) inspire a subset of readers! These elements have been made completely irrelevant to the character's as they exist today and their existence will largely be unknown to new readers, completely lost to time, only to be recognized in back issues and wikis. Yay, comics!

I'm only a little bitter, really.

[–]Aitrus233 2 points3 points ago

I'm not sure Jason being alive as a murderous vigilante is much better, and would only add to to the heartbreak. They didn't bring him back to appease new readers, they brought him back to kick Batman in the balls. A Death in the Family is still entirely relevant.

[–]Ozlin 0 points1 point ago

Very valid point. I don't think Jason being brought back was to appease new readers, Barbra's "fix" maybe, but not Jason. But, I do think it's unfortunate that the event's meaning has changed. Certainly having your ward come back as some crazed murderer is awful, but it does change the effect on Bruce, even if it is equal or worse than having Jason dead. It changes from an event of tragedy, adding to Bruce's death toll of loved ones, to an event of tragic psychological agony on Jason and his "revenge." Sure, Bruce still went through the "loss" of Jason, but having him come back changes that loss, even if it Jason is back as something less than what Bruce would hope for. Plus, isn't Jason "better" now?

I also think it's just repeating that annoying comic trope of how nothing ever sticks in history and no one ever stays dead. It's wholly unrealistic (big surprise, right?) and cheapens the death and its effects.

With Jason it's also in a way a slap in the face to the fans who voted for him to die. Like "Oh, look, we did what you said... not really! Suck it!" I know it's different writers, but still, respecting the decision of fans/readers of that time would be... well, respectful.

Finally, with Jason, it feels like the whole Batman Beyond storyline that came out a few years before with Grayson [Drake] going crazy. Which is annoying. It may be fully a coincidence, but eh, it didn't feel like an original idea to me.

One reason why some comics get slammed for not being deep is because of stuff like this. No one respects the meaningful events that happen. Imagine if Bambi's mother came back at the end of the film. Or if Bruce's parents were actually just in Africa all this time. Or if Gatsby came back. People die in real life and give people that survive them something of value in perspective of that death. When you bring people back in comics you destroy that and you ruin something of that universe and shallow the characters the "death" supposedly effected (see: Captain America (Bucky), Bruce (Jason), Peter Parker (Uncle Ben, Aunt May, Gwen Stacey), DareDevil (Elektra to some extent), Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, etc.).

I know my argument is pointless, this isn't going to change, ever, for these "core" universe titles, but it still annoys me and I personally think Jason should have stayed dead (and Barbra should have stayed paralyzed) because it was important in getting Bruce to understand the realities of the "job."

[–]Aitrus233 1 point2 points ago

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about Jason. I actually enjoyed the animated movie Under the Red Hood a good deal, and generally like the idea of Jason being pissed off that Batman never got around to killing the Joker. I mean really, Batman? Reeeaaaaaallllyyyyy? I understand you've got that whole no killing code, but there isn't going to be a single person that will miss him. Not even villains trust him. At least pull some strings behind the scenes so that he doesn't get off on an insanity plea again (he really isn't insane, he knows what he's doing), and let the system administer capital punishment.

But I digress. On the subject of Hal Jordan, I hated how they got rid of him initially so much that I was actually glad to see him back. And you're gonna need to link me to whatever Batman Beyond story that was. Were you perhaps thinking of The Dark Knight Strikes Again? Because that's something else entirely.

[–]Ozlin 0 points1 point ago

The Batman Beyond story is "Return of the Joker" obvious spoilers in the synopsis.

At least pull some strings behind the scenes so that he doesn't get off on an insanity plea again (he really isn't insane, he knows what he's doing), and let the system administer capital punishment.

I think this is the key point. I also had problems with Batman not killing the Joker, but then a friend explained that it's not really Batman's fault, in a way it is, but his "job" isn't to pass judgment, his job is to capture them, take them off the streets, and put them into the justice system. Basically like what cops are supposed to do. The issue with Gotham isn't that Batman isn't killing criminals, but that the justice system is shitty as hell. Who the fuck are these judges and what kind of bullshit is going on in their heads? Nolan's films in a way address this with the Dent Act. Clearly the Joker isn't going to be "reformed," there's no way, he's been doing what he does for years and killed countless amounts of people. And Batman does his job, perfectly, almost every time, but the judges fail to give proper "justice."

Jason's anger is justified, I agree. And having Jason be angry at Bruce because of his lack of "vengeance" does carry weight, but I think similar effects could have been done with a different character without taking away from the actual death itself. I.e. maybe Dick or Tim find out and are like "wtf dude?" albeit such a situation would have happened years ago.

Edit: Correction, I was wrong about BB:RotJ, it isn't Grayson, but Drake that the Joker messes with.

[–]UnplugdAcoustics 20 points21 points ago

Not bat shit. Guano. (Ace Ventura voice)

[–]Xeeker 5 points6 points ago

SHI-

KA-

...

GO!

Yooouuu're outta there!

[–]seattleryanno 35 points36 points ago

Adventure time on the tv? Solid win.

[–]He_Who_Looks_Good 2 points3 points ago

Now we know who Batman's hero is.

[–]AdamBombTV 10 points11 points ago

This is why he has Alfred.

[–]longbowhunter 10 points11 points ago

For years,it WAS Alfred's job to clean up all the bat-shit...and then he caught Ra's Al Ghul's modified ebola virus THE CLENCH and almost died during an issue of GOTHAM KNIGHTS. Bruce then had the bats removed from the cave and set up special forcefields to keep them contained to non-essential parts of the cave when they returned.

[–]alchemist5 3 points4 points ago

Forcefields seem unnecessary, when he could, you know, put up a fence (which he did in one of the Batman novels).

[–]ragingbuns 3 points4 points ago

I'm assuming force fields were used because bats can still poop through the bars of cages

[–]The_Derpening 3 points4 points ago

Yeah but Alfred wasn't alive to talk sense into him.

[–]HeroOfBladehold 1 point2 points ago

this sounds like an interesting storyline ,what comic/novel does Alfred catch it?

[–]longbowhunter 1 point2 points ago

Well,the CONTAGION storyline was one of those multi-part crossovers that spanned all the books-its been collected into Paperback. The follow up where Alfred got sick was in issue #42 of the GOTHAM KNIGHTS comic.

[–]wtfomg 5 points6 points ago

Just got back from volunteering cleaning bat cages.. Totally empathize.

[–]bnj7146[!] 5 points6 points ago

Actually, I really liked how the subtly addressed this issue in TDKR. By keeping everything under the water until he needs it, Bruce didn't have to worry about cleaning the batshit off

[–]MrSamster911 2 points3 points ago

actually the bats have their own aviary... and he disinfects them.... and he has a net above his cave to catch any dung... read the batman handbook...

[–]Bhoot 2 points3 points ago

That would drive anyone batshit crazy...

[–]nehkz 2 points3 points ago

Well, I didn't know batman watched adventure time.

[–]RupertDurden 2 points3 points ago

I knew someone was guano mention this sooner or later.

[–]UrsaNight 1 point2 points ago

The only negative thing besides the crippling obsession crime and inability to move on from tragedy. And crazy ex-girlfriends.

[–]MasterLawlz 0 points1 point ago

If I recall correctly he has nets for the guano.

[–]TucaTuca 0 points1 point ago

What comic issue is this from? Or is it some fan art?

[–]coltron472 -1 points0 points ago

Adventure time!!

[–]FreeloadingRusty 0 points1 point ago

They prefer free-range corn-fed chicken goujons, gently fried in extra virgin olive oil. With chives, sir.

[–]vadergeek 1 point2 points ago

I like to imagine that he uses that bat-signally thing from Year One to keep them away from the stuff he uses.

[–]Tayloringledrew 0 points1 point ago

well that and everyone except for joker is out to kill him.

[–]ForgottenRomeo 0 points1 point ago

Massive upvotes for the penny and the playing card... Loving it.

[–]ParagonIHX 0 points1 point ago

This an actual page, or fan art?

[–]steenarie 0 points1 point ago

But think of all the mascara he could make!

[–]Kamthebest 0 points1 point ago

Adventure time on the batputer

[–]harrydorcas 0 points1 point ago

What is Finn doing at the background?

[–]NoirBatman 0 points1 point ago

If he can attract bats, he could obviously keep bats from certain sections of the cave.

[–]LionClaw 0 points1 point ago

Anyone one else see Finn in the computer screen?

[–]vivvav 1 point2 points ago

And... you know, the dead parents. Don't forget the dead parents.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]jaundicemanatee 3 points4 points ago

....with....?

[–]hardrockfoo 0 points1 point ago

The bats