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When I see r/atheists responding to Christian propaganda on Facebook. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 1 month ago by ellivibrutp
[–]joecan 103 points104 points105 points 1 month ago
If it was any other type of propaganda you wouldn't be thinking that. Religion shouldn't be put on its own special platform, and it shouldn't be immune to criticism just because people get offended easily.
[–]Capta1nPlanet 37 points38 points39 points 1 month ago
Exactly. It's no different from discussing politics or sports, except for the fact that it is much easier to argue. If someone is going to hold the opinion that there is a supernatural man who created everything, it shouldn't be considered taboo to discuss.
[–]IanTTT 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
While agree agree it shouldn't be taboo, faith isn't rational or trivial. Faith is emotional and people with faith are emotionally invested in their beliefs. The taboo exist because those discussions upset and divide people.
[–]Krovixis 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
That same faith also upsets and divides people. I honestly think that placing a taboo to maintain the status quo just leads to the perpetuation of beliefs and will continue to cause conflict.
It's sort of like peeling off a band-aid, isn't it?
[–]colinsteadman 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Do they think god is a man? Do they think he has legs and arms and a scrotum? I wonder what they think he is made of. I wonder where they think he lives? Does he need something to stand on, or does he float around in space? What exactly do Christians think he is?
I'm not really asking, just trying to make any Christians who might be reading this think.
[–]Capta1nPlanet 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I think that the problem is most Christians don't want to think about it because they are afraid to. A lot of people that I know have a religion but aren't very religious, they don't really follow their faith and probably haven't read the bible or whatever their respective book is. People would rather not think about it and believe as default than give up their insurance policy
[–]bleedingheartsurgery 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Religion allows you to stop thinking. That's why I think it is harmful.
[–]releasedtruth 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Something I read from Sam Harris regularly. Popularity pulls down the veil of sanctity. Explains people complaining when I deride Beiber Fever.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 13 points14 points15 points 1 month ago
For the record, I never said I felt there was anything WRONG with destroying everything someone believes in :)
I think those posts funny more than anything.
I find it interesting that you know how i feel about various types of propaganda though... I didn't say anything about that either. If I was concerned with a different form of propaganda, i probably would have posted this in a different subreddit.
[–]abasslinelow 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I think he was trying to make the point that, Person A were spreading Nazi propaganda, you wouldn't fault Person B for attempting to destroy everything that Person A believes in.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Yeah, I wouldn't... and I am not faulting atheists in this post either. I think most of these kinds of facebook posts are just dandy.
[–]abasslinelow 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
'Most' being the operative word, for sure. Even I have to admit, some of them go waaaaay too far.
Yes, some do... If you look at the new section of r/atheism, you can see all of the complete jackasses who want internet points for being mean to the real life friends. It is sad. Luckily they get voted down pretty quickly.
But these real life friends think they deserve to burn forever in hell. And or stop being friends with them if they find out what they believe. Who's mean?
[–]SockofBadKarma -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 month ago
But neither of you know him or what his opinions are beyond this image macro. He may well do exactly what joecan said he wouldn't do, and as he said, if he WERE to do so, he would put it on a different subreddit.
And I'm certainly someone else who would do the same thing. Yes, if someone was spreading Nazi propaganda and I stepped up to attempt to destroy everything that person believes in via heated debate(or, rather, the subsection of their beliefs that include Nazi ideology), I would fully expect an onlooker to say that that's what I'm doing because that's what I'm doing. Just because I'd be engaged in the willful act of trying to sabotage a deeply-seated belief doesn't intrinsically make my actions bad (in fact, I'd argue, and most people on this subreddit would agree, that that's actually moral behavior), nor does it imply that the belief I'm attacking is a special case. That Bender's face is on the image macro, which instantly arouses connotations of general douchebaggery to anyone who's watched Futurama (ie all of Reddit), is simply an incidental effect of, well, quoting Bender and doing it in an image macro format.
joecan shouldn't presume to know a person better than they know themselves (or to declare that he knows how they'd act in a hypothetical scenario). Elliv could just as easily put this on r/politics, change "Christian propaganda" to "neoconservative propaganda" (not that there's much of a difference), and be just as justified in his assessment.
In other news, I've just realized (or rather, remembered) that I have a serious fetish for parenthetical statements.
[–]ShadowAssassinQueef 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
TLDR
[–]joecan 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The "you" in my statement was more a generalization, and probably could be replaced with "people" or another appropriate term. The image came across as sarcasm, and I know a lot of people that would say similarly sarcastic statements to illustrate how they think criticizing religion should be off limits because it is deeply offensive. That's what my post was in response to.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
point taken.
[–]ZumaZoom 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
While this is true, sometimes when I watch Fox I'll see them get riled up about how people do not attack Muslims as much as they do Christians. They always leave the question open as if they want you to say, "because it's more risky to do that."
I'd say all religions should be treated equally, but you have to be weary of the crazy and then you also have to worry about the crazy-crazy.
[–]joecan 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I'm not really sure if what you're saying is supposed to be agreeing or disagreeing with what I said. But I will say this, as much as I think FOX News has its head up their ass, that point you bring up is valid, we tend to give Islam a break. Though I do think when they bring it up it's much more to do with them trying to say Christianity is above reproach, and Islam is 100% evil.
I don't think all religions should be treated equally, some are more crazy than others, and some have more power than others. Both of those have to be taken into consideration. Right now Islam is being used to recruit, brainwash, and enslave people into doing some very dangerous things, and Christianity in America is being used to influence politics into promoting bigotry and anti-science nonsense. Both are worth arguing against, and both should be able to be argued against without moderate believers being personally offended when you point out issues with parts of their religions and fellow believers.
[–]Blowjob_Chairman 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Not all religious propaganda can hurt people. Some even choose to believe it! It's crazy I know, but I hear they enjoy being involved in a religion. And get this, not everyone wants to force others into it! But it goes even deeper... some even help other, without forcing religion on them.
[–]joecan 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago*
Religion shouldn't be immune to criticism, somehow me stating that made you upset about things I didn't say. At no point did I say religion is 100% evil, nor did I say that believers don't get benefit or enjoyment out of believing. However, some things religions do & teach are wrong, and pointing those things out shouldn't be off-limits, and shouldn't result in believers being personally offended.
[–]misterfanwank 12 points13 points14 points 1 month ago
Actually, I consider "destroying everything you ever believed in" to be a kindness.
[–]immarried 17 points18 points19 points 1 month ago
For me its more of a, You said something stupid, and I am going to make you feel stupid for saying it.
[–]NotaClipaMagazine 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I hardly see people trying to make other people feel stupid. There may be some "look at this stupid christian I was talking to" posts. But, for the most part I think people are just trying to correct people so that hopefull they do not contintune the believe that the earth is 6000 years old or that evolution does not exist or that homosexuals are abominations. It will probably be interperated like that though as it is an attack on their world view.
[–]immarried 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
And that is where the "You're GOING TO HELL TO BURN FOREVER" started. Yeah, I have been there.
Interpretated* FTFY
That's how stupidity is dealt with in ever other facet of life. Religion made it taboo, that's why so many ppl believe it in this day and age. If ppl were allowed to laugh at it throughout history, it wouldn't be half as popular today.
[–]swordtothechest -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
I used to tell people they were stupid for saying stupid things, until I took a sword to the chest.
[–]ChicagoRunner 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
This is the worst novelty account I have ever seen.
[–]immarried 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Must have been the south?
[–]dumnezero 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
arrowtotheknee must be taken, right?
[–]superpastaaisle -7 points-6 points-5 points 1 month ago
There is a term for that.
It is called being an asshole.
[–]GMNightmare -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 month ago
Do you have a mirror on hand?
[–]superpastaaisle -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 month ago
Right, i'm the asshole because i go around calling people idiots.
[–]shoryuken_kid -7 points-6 points-5 points 1 month ago
upvote of understanding. may you continue to notice that some people here on r/atheism are just approval hungry weirdos. also please upvote me for telling the truth. i like the big numbers that are by my name
[–]keeblur -7 points-6 points-5 points 1 month ago
More like, "I don't care if I hurt you, I just want karma."
[–]jeshuacottontail -9 points-8 points-7 points 1 month ago
You forgot the implicit ending of your sentence: "because I'm not secure enough with my own social standing that I feel compelled to take others down a notch, even when I can rationally understand that it does nothing to substantively improve my life or that of the other... but I don't like to admit to that because it hurts when I think about it, so I'm more comfortable avoiding that reality in the company of others in much the same boat. Also, I'm somewhat immature."
FTFY : )
[–]FeetOfClay7 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
And hey, looks like you're doing the exact same thing.
[–]jeshuacottontail -6 points-5 points-4 points 1 month ago
Almost! The key difference is that I don't intend to make anyone feel stupid for saying that they actively make others feel stupid for saying things they feel are stupid. Instead, I intend to demonstrate the lack of utility in doing so.
I would hope that doesn't lead people to feeling stupid, but perhaps instead the recognizance of having made a miscalculation in their rationalization for behaviours.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Look, he's doing it again!
[–]jeshuacottontail -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 month ago
The best part about being cheeky is that you can do so while still being objectively correct, but without being a dick! Although that implies having learned the lesson that "just because I'm right doesn't de-dickify what I said/did" - something that comes with age (for most, at least).
: )
[–]abasslinelow 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
I find this statement ironic because the tone of your first reply was, through my eyes, more than a little condescending.
Explicitly stating that somebody is insecure and immature isn't intended to make them feel stupid? Ooooooookay then.
[–]jeshuacottontail 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
If a psychologist points out patterns indicating insecurity, are they intending to make the client feel stupid? If an adult makes note of childish behaviour on the part of a child, is this intending to make the child feel stupid? Of course not!
Conversely, is it possible to point such things out without intentional malice? Yes, absolutely - it just depends how you do it. If one remarks to people how stupid they are on the basis that one thinks their ideas/beliefs/views are stupid, that's a great example of intentional malice that only has a negative effect.
The first case is wanted advice from a licensed professional, who is being paid for by somebody who acknowledges that they have problems and is actively attempting to fix them. The second case is dealing with a child and is absolutely different than dealing with an adult.
I agree - it is definitely possible to point such things out without intentional malice. I'm simply pointing out that your first post did not accomplish this goal successfully, and from my perspective, does not seem like it attempted to accomplish this goal in the first place. If anything, it seemed to contain the same patterns you are identifying in the person you responded to - just, using the condescending attitude one might use when lecturing a child, rather than inflammatory and/or hateful language exhibited by a lot of Facebook atheists.
[–]Owlsrule12 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
Actually, you called us immature and insecure. Dumbass.
[–]jeshuacottontail 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Describing socially destructive behaviour as reflective of immaturity is hardly an insult, and neither is the suggestion that someone may lash out at others in a negative fashion due to their own insecurities (perceived or real).
That being said, resorting to plain insults like calling people "stupid" or a "dumbass" is usually a good giveaway that one is acting in an emotional manner (which generally has little value in a discussion), or simply that one feels they cannot offer anything of greater value in the discussion. The latter is commonly regarded as a dick move.
[–]abasslinelow 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I think the main point you're neglecting is that a Facebook post and reply isn't only between the poster and the replier - there is an entire audience reading. Most replies to ignorant posts are not meant for the original poster, they're meant for the spectators.
If you want a professional example of this in an academic setting, watch a debate from Christopher Hitchens. Half of the time, it's plainly obvious that he is not saying what he says to convince his opponent, or even counter their point - he uses it as a forum to educate an audience.
Indeed, there is a performative aspect. However, any reasonable person can plainly see that "telling people they're stupid on Facebook when they post things I think are stupid" is incredibly far from "Hitchens having an academic debate regarding religion". The former assumes the performative aspect is to show off for like-minded people, while the latter assumes some level of reasoned, educated, intellectual sparring - which may fundamentally imply no real "winner", but simply the benefit of all being had by the nature of the reasoned debate.
I think it's very fair to say that a reasonable, mature person would find it difficult to respect the act of trying to make others look foolish on Facebook - especially with intentional malice, whereas reasonable people can respectfully disagree in a setting such as an academic debate.
Kind of. It's only your assumption that the performative aspect of the former is to show off for like-minded people. Personally? I don't see it that way at all, and I think it's rather unfair of you to inject your own implications into an entire group's intentions.
To be fair though, you are absolutely right that some people take it way too far, crossing from (albeit sometimes aggressively) informative to legitimately insulting. Things like this really need to be judged on a case-by-case basis.
"For me its more of a, You said something stupid, and I am going to make you feel stupid for saying it."
Since it is clear that the intent is to make others feel negatively based on one's opinion of another's views, what other conclusions could we reasonable reach on the balance of probabilities with regard to the motivations/intentions of the poster?
If I say "I like making people look stupid on Facebook when they post x", is there not an assumed level of performative action there, given that Facebook is somewhat of a public forum?
Conversely, why would I bother to act in such a way if I know my manners won't change minds, if only to hurt others? On the balance of probabilities, I would assume that it is simply immature folks trying to look cool among like-minded folks, vs. people just out to hurt others simply for kicks.
You need context for your assertion.
If someone engages me as I do not go out and actively persue these kinds of arguments then they cannot be upset with me when the gloves come off. I can be calm logical and rational throughout the debate. The moment they begin with the going to hell and praying for my soul shit I tend to get a little upset. When they start to deny evolution in place of creation. When they state that they are taking my children to Sunday school so that they learn about how the Earth was really created I tend to lose it just a little. I do not spare peoples feelings when it gets to that level. I back them in a corner with there own reasoning and try to make them feel as small as possible. They need to know not to fuck with my children or my family as a whole.
On another note I never really cared for that side of the family anyway.
[–]jeshuacottontail -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
Do you seriously think people posting their religious views on Facebook represents a threat to your children or your family (considering you implied that you need to defend them from people "fucking" with them)?
Moreover, do you really think
are respectable patterns of behaviour in relation to being a role model for your children? I would strongly argue such traits are inherently destructive and obstructive to the rational dialogue our society needs in order to flourish.
Perhaps we have a different take on what constitutes reasonable, mature behaviour (especially for those who set examples for children), but I had always assumed most reasonable people would view actively (and aggressively) attacking people on Facebook for their contrary views to be somewhat childish, if not entirely futile.
[–]immarried 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Actually I do it away from my children and the context of the conversation that I used was in person in front of my home while my wife and kids were at the store. You make assumptions using facts that do not exist. Though I can see where you would derive that from. And if you think that questioning someones beliefs gets them all riled up you should try telling them that they are a bad parent or that they are ruining their children.
Facebook is easy to deal with them as there are methods to simply "un-friend" or hide them from the newsfeed. I am talking about in person with the bible thumping side of my family that I just as rather never speak or hear from again then have to deal with another racist ignorant argument over dinner.
[–]IanTTT 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Arguing is fun.
that's what she said?
[–]Talphin 10 points11 points12 points 1 month ago
My dad once asked me why I set out to destroy the beliefs of so many people... I replied: "I'm not destroying them. I am replacing them with better ones."
[–]Karashney 8 points9 points10 points 1 month ago
Not to say that in this specific instance you aren't right in that statement but...isn't that an extremely arrogant way of thinking?
[–]Capercaillie 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
When did being correct become the same thing as being arrogant?
[–]ThatIsMyHat 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
When you assume that you're automatically correct and that anyone who disagrees is wrong.
[–]PraiseBeToScience 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Hmm, seems like this argument is far more relevant to the theist, since they are the ones making the claim.
[–]Capercaillie -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
So, Christianity = arrogance.
[–]Karashney 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I suppose around the same time that having no proof of a god meant that there never will be any proof of a god and thus there is no god. I don't pretend to know that there is 100% without a doubt no god of any sort. I choose to believe that there is not because I have not been presented with valid evidence to the contrary.
[–]Capercaillie 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Yeah. I guess those people that say that there is no such thing as fairies are arrogant too, then? It's pretty arrogant to say that there are no gremlins living in my refrigerator. Arrogant.
[–]dumnezero 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
While it may be interpreted so, it's still true. And if you value truth, you can't let a fear of arrogance (being arrogant) stand in your way.
Also, technically, everyone does this all the time in varying degrees. People changing people's minds.
[–]ThatIsMyHat 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
I'm not destroying them. I am replacing them with better ones mine.
FTFY
[–]cuttlefish1054 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
It's a good thing religious people never choose how to act based on believing things that aren't true. Otherwise there might be, you know, reasons to eliminate belief in false things.
http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2008/11/why-we-care-what-other-people-believe-religion-race-and-prop-8.html
http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2009/11/armor-of-god.html
[–]Aperfectmoment 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Its not because they are part of a pack or herd mentality.
Its because their herd mentality/pack votes against the herd/pack mentality of the future. They will all eventually die out...its just how many lives are ruined along the way.
[–]ldex0596 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
...with blackjack and hookers.
[–]ElBobo 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Hurt feelings is not a good reason to shut up when a great ignorance threatens peace.
[–]rainbowsalamander 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
If what you believe in, what you place all of your faith for this life in, is something that has no rational basis, then pointing that out might do you some good in the long run.
[–]MTFBWY 6 points7 points8 points 1 month ago
I don't want to crush their beliefs. I am just getting back at the kid in 3rd grade who told me there was no Santa.
[–]Anon7331 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1343596806187.jpg
[–]Brushstroke 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Have you considered that maybe we're doing them a favor?
[–]gamblingbeat 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
What did they say? How did they react?
[–]shebeen57 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Oh come on, who believes in that fairytale nonesense.
[–]mack2028 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
It is not assault it is surgery.
[–]unsaid14017 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
If I make an atheist post on Facebook, I'm more than willing to accept any theist's objections. I have no expectation that my beliefs (or lack thereof) be unchallenged by scrutiny or debate.
[–]Krovixis 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Ironic, since Bender actually met a sort of God in series.
Does that give him a rank among the most hardcore fictional atheists?
[–]Prezombie 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Pointing out that Santa isn't real doesn't destroy Santa.
[–]meedeeohcah 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
It destroys the child.
[–]ShadoutRex 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
No it doesn't. Children learn the truth about Santa all the time and go on being children.
[–]meedeeohcah 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I'm actually surprised someone took it seriously
[–]egosumFidius 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
"I'm sorry what I did hurt you, but those chains around your brain were really tight, they must've been cutting off blood."
[–]Owlsrule12 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Yes, and I love bender for that episode.
[–]drossglop 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
You could apply this to Christians trying to convert people to Christianity as well.
[–]TooSentimental 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
And thus we must look at the the content, the value, not just the form.
[–]DebunkingAtheists 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Told you, Atheists have an agenda and a dogma.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Who on this planet doesn't have an agenda?
Some more obvious then others: An American Humanist named John Dunphy said in 1983:
"I am convinced that the battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level--preschool day care or large state university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new--the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with all its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism."
Yeah, that is a pretty awesome quote. But I asked: who on this planet DOESN'T have an agenda?
I am pretty sure someone without an agenda wouldn't bother digging up that quote for me.
Touché, I has agenda :7)
[–]Singular_Thought -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
Undiagnosed mental illness.
[–]Anthropax -9 points-8 points-7 points 1 month ago
Freethinker here, one of the most worst parts of r/atheism is how preachy and confrontation the tone is. You've become the worst parts of what you despise.
[–]GMNightmare 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Look how preachy and confrontational your tone is. You've become the worst parts of what you despise.
On another note, being preachy and confrontational is not nearly the worst part of what anybody despises.
[–]Anthropax -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
I thought the "I know what you but what am I" logic ended at the elementary playground. For someone who claims to be godless based on scientific observation and logic your arguments suggest you've put a lot of thought behind your words.
This is r/atheism, it was implied you all despise religion. I'll give you minute to think about that one.
[–]GMNightmare 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
It only ends when you stop making childish statements that are hypocritical, so basically when you start making arguments that extend past the quality you'd find at elementary would be the time you should be treated above such. Look in a mirror before you post, would be easiest.
it was implied you all despise religion
Making up BS is not an argument.
[–]Anthropax -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
My claims that your tactics are hypocritical make me a hypocrite. I love the this subreddit.
[–]GMNightmare 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Not quite. You trying to claim we're preachy and confrontational and treating that like a bad thing while you yourself are doing exactly that is what makes you a hypocrite.
You trying to say we are hypocrites is flat out wrong, because as the case is, being "preachy" and "confrontational" is not even close to what we complain about--ignorance at its finest. Make up the opposing side's viewpoints and then blame them for your made up BS.
I didn't even intend this post to be critical of r/atheism. I definitely don't despise r/atheism.
I thought of it in more of a "go team!" sort of way.
I'm not on any team, I don't need a support group to validate my world view nor do I piss on other people when they choose a different one then myself.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
Go team Anthropax!
[–]bleedingheartsurgery -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
Preachy and confrontational tone I'm sensing
[–]TheonGryJy -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 month ago*
If you believe in god, you go to heaven.
If you don't you go to hell.
If he doesn't exist, nothing is lost.
You guys have no common sense.
[–]themacguffinman 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Pascal's Wager? Really? You sound like a man who has never read arguments against his beliefs.
What god do you choose? If you believe in Yahweh, you go to hell in every religion there is. False dichotomy.
[–]TheonGryJy -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 month ago
Better chance of avoiding hell than you
[–]themacguffinman 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
No you don't. The Flying Spaghetti Monster will get you. He is the one true god.
[–]TheonGryJy 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Oh come on, who believes in that fairytale nonesense?
[–]themacguffinman 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Dammit. I fell for it :(
[–]Goyyou 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Don't you see the same can be said about "your" god?
[–]TheonGryJy 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Did you know the big bang theory contradicts the first law of physics.
"Matter cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another"
[–]usurious 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Aside from being based entirely out of fear, the problem is that you present this lame argument as if there are only two options. It is the definition of a false dichotomy. You can't just eliminate the possibility of all other religions because you don't happen to believe them. You also have to be open not only to other established religions, but possibilities such as a god who might favor the non-believers for just being honest. As long as we're throwing ideas around without evidence, there are limitless possibilities.
So believe because what's there to lose?
[–]TheonGryJy 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
Exactly. What harm could it do?
[–]ellivibrutp[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
It isn't the personal cost... It is the cost to society, and that cost huge right now...
It's pretty selfish to look at it from a personal stance and ignore everyone else. A Christian believing god will provide doesn't feed the hungry. Someone who doesn't believe god will provide is more likely to do something that will actually make a difference (usually through science). They do this because they aren't waiting for a miracle, or even a sign from god. They just know it is the right thing to do.
[–]TheonGryJy -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 month ago
But without christian morals to guide the human race in the dark ages, we would all have remained savages today. Also, Albert Einstein was a christian, and so are the many US presidents who improved society today.
please be sarcasm, please be sarcasm, please be sarcasm.
Without Albert Einsteins hard work that he did, we wouldn't have such great things which resulted from his works.
[–]ellivibrutp[S] 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
I am serious, I have a hard time distinguishing between subtly brilliant sarcasm and real life idiots.
Albert Einstein was not a christian. Please tell me you know that.
[–]usurious 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
You forgot the third option. Troll.
Ahhh! I DID forget!
"You disagree with me so you must be trolling"
Thankfully the bible teaches others to respect all beliefs. You have a right to yours.
Wait...but it's not a belief it's a fact?
Because you believe it to be fact
[–]usurious 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Why is that in quotation marks? Are yo quoting me? I didn't say that. It doesn't even matter, troll or not your arguments are bad. I was just pointing out that he left an important option off the list.
The Bible strictly forbids worshiping false gods. It is punishable by eternal torture. I wouldn't exactly call that respecting all beliefs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein
Wikipedia? Really? What an unreliable source.
okay... show me ANY source at all that claims he is a christian... please.
He grew up a retard and ended up creating a nuke. If that's not a miracle, I don't know what is. Surely it was gods work and he would only maek that effort if he believed in him.
And before you say it, no, that does not mean retards believe in god.
WHAT?! He wasn't retarded! He had developmental problems. There's speculation that he had autism or asperger but not retardation. AND A MIRACLE?! FOR MAKING A NUKE?! I mean i guess? Hell even America was like oh oops... and we love to blow stuff up.
feeds troll mmmmm! troll chow! nom nom nom!
"You may call me an agnostic" -albert einstein. I have never heard of a christian saying that.
[–]Peacecrafts -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 month ago
Albert Einstein was a christian
citation?
[–]Peacecrafts -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
but how to you know which god to believe in? the Muslim one? the Jewish one? the Christian one? Flying spaghetti monster?
[–]TheonGryJy -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
Easy.. I believe in the one true god, and assume they are all the real god.
[–]Peacecrafts -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
oh, you better hope the christian god isn't the real one then. I heard he doesn't like people who believe that other gods are real, and those people go to hell.
[–]Capercaillie -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
I think everyone that posts here is familiar with Pascal's Wager, and has rejected it. You know, it's even in the FAQs.
But if a god doesn't exist, and you live like one does, what have you lost? Only the truth. Only the chance to live your own life in the way you want. Only the opportunity to be a human.
Are you saying christians can't live the way they want to? If so, I assure you you are wrong.
[–]Capercaillie 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Really? Evidence to the contrary.
[–]brainburger -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
This is actually my view. Well, not everything they believe in. Just the harmful stuff.
Love the faithful, but hate faith.
[–]truthie -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 month ago
Don't worry, r/atheists misunderstanding christians misunderstanding the bible isn't going to shatter anyone's faith. The constant misunderstanding of different dogmas by r/atheists is probably a lot more likely to strengthen some christians faith, since it's so often totally clear that the r/atheist has no fucking clue what they're refuting.
[–]falcy 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
The fact that everyone interprets the bible so differently is a good sign that its origins are not divine. A good author is clear and unambiguous when it is needed.
But the reason why the Bible isn't to be believed, is the complete lack of evidence for any of its extreme claims. Anybody can make extreme claims.
[–]truthie 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Your reply has nothing to do with my comment. I wasn't sticking up for the bible, I was making an observation about r/atheism's generally terrible arguing style. But at least I gave you an opportunity to post your circlejerking comment, I'm sure it will do well.
[–]falcy 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
No, my comment completely agrees with your comment.
Everybody misunderstands the Bible according to somebody. And people keep fighting over the correct interpretation. Muslims and especially Christians, but even some atheists.
Instead they should realize that interpretation does not really matter in this case. What matters is the endless sea of disagreement about everything in the Bible.
[–]MrKequc 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I don't understand how it is you feel that it is the atheist's responsibility to know every detail about the other person's faith. Why isn't it the responsibility of the person who believes something to understand that belief well enough that they can respond to criticism adequately?
[–]truthie -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 month ago
You're refuting an argument I'm not making. Very typical of the logic used by fans of this subreddit.
[–]MrKequc 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
What are you talking about?
Your reply has nothing to do with my comment. You said:
I don't understand how it is you feel that it is the atheist's responsibility to know every detail about the other person's faith.
Not only did I not say that, I don't expect it. It's just something you made up and then scolded me for.
You're pretty confused.
I wasn't scolding you, I was saying that it isn't the atheists responsibility to know everything about what they are trying to get a better grip on. It is the theist's responsibility to educate the atheist about what it is that the theist is saying are facts and the atheist is encroaching.
You were saying that atheists apparently don't know what they are talking about regarding theistic matters, so it absolutely was a relevant response.
[–]meedeeohcah -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
He's talking about how people just go on to r/Atheism and spend 2 days on it and become a full blown atheist. AKA my brother lol
Nope, that wasn't what I was saying. I said what I meant, it's right there in writing.
And make no mistake, I'm not talking about atheists, I'm talking about r/atheists. I made that pretty clear, but you are clearly easily baffled.
[–]MrKequc 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
You are a moron.
[–]truthie -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
You can't read and then understand what you read.
To be fair the same can be said for Christians alike not r/Christianity but straight Christians.
[–]xphateslater -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
Well a Christian trying to destroy an atheist's beliefs is not the same as an atheist trying destroying a christian's. Atheism is based on proven fact, whereas Christianity is based completely on faith. Atheists can take criticism because their beliefs are proven fact. Christians on the other hand have a hard time with criticism because all they have is faith.
[–]bleedingheartsurgery 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I love how James randi has $100 000 for abyone who can prove something supernatural. In 40 years no one has been able to experience a supernatural occurance to get a million dollars. Yet they have these personal experiences that prove supernatural things happen. Lol.
[–]bunnysuitman -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
'if you hide your ignorance no one will ever hit you and you will never learn" ~Ray Bradbury
[–]mantis911 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Do you know who else had propaganda?... Nazis!
[–]MrMadcap -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
Which, if anything, would only benefit them.
In the end, they will thank us.
[–]JohnFuckingLennon -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
they will tank us.
[–]Adios_numero_two -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
Soon they'll be sending Christmas cards to kids saying he isn't real.
[–]TidderGnillort -8 points-7 points-6 points 1 month ago
So much fucking atheist propaganda on reddit. Trying to convince me God doesn't exist, Obama is the best president, and Fags deserve rights.
/r/atheism - Fully devoid of any logic or reasoning
[–]Aperfectmoment 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
yeah they probably also say women are equal to men and that ethnic people deserve rights and that preists shouldn't touch children. Where do they come up with this stuff?
[–]flyingmobias -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
how do you know god exists? because you just know? because your parents/church say so?
think about this, in reality, things are true if they can hold up to scrutiny in a court of law, non-opinion based evidence is much more potent than trivial statements that differ from person to person
no religious person can win their case against evidence/facts/scrutiny. why? because you aren't gonna pray when someone is choking and you know cpr.
[–]Ajinho 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
try reading his username backwards
[–]flyingmobias 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
i just made this reddit account, so i'll have to learn how to navigate, but yeah i'll assume it was basically "llort"=troll, ill be more careful next time lol
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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