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I died laughing at this. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 1 month ago by MajorStever
[–]eckart_tollbridge 258 points259 points260 points 1 month ago
One of them will be a metaphor.
[–]mrdrsmashington123 137 points138 points139 points 1 month ago
If we ever discover proof of a god I will just say that discovery is a metaphor and watch them rage.
[–]zandabyte 98 points99 points100 points 1 month ago
It's just a theory and we need to teach the controversy.
[–]studmuffffffin 22 points23 points24 points 1 month ago
Oh man, that's brilliant.
[–]ofker 56 points57 points58 points 1 month ago
It was taken out of context? Or, maybe society was different then?
[–]CorpusPera 44 points45 points46 points 1 month ago
I hear the "Society was different then" one all the time. No. Contradictions aren't logical no matter what your "society" says.
[–]ckwop 69 points70 points71 points 1 month ago
The fact that the book was a merely the social product of its time is surely an argument against its divinity, not an argument for it.
My view is that the following were always wrong:
Yet the Bible condones all of these in various places. It's a disgusting book that should have been left in the late Iron age in which it was first penned.
[–]ginx2666 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
If you're talking about paedophilia, I'll say that catholic priests stayed as close to good old christian tradition as they could. Only Muhammad scored younger kids.
[–]rogueyogi 10 points11 points12 points 1 month ago
"It's a disgusting book that should have been left in the late Iron age in which it was first penned."
I am of the opinion that that was Jesus' intention but the old schoolers didn't like that one bit.
[–]thisnamedoesntexist 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Depends on how you interpret this passage
Edit: This is passage troubled me when I was a believer, whenever people told me that we didn't need to worry about old testament stuff because of Jesus
[–]Sell200AprilAt142 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The NT letters are clear that OT law is still valid, it's just that through that valid law the believer has died to it (having "died" when Christ died) so it doesn't apply any more. Romans 3:13 "do we nullify the law? no we uphold it" and Galatians 2:19 "for through the law I died to the law". The analogy of being "married" to the law is made in Romans 7:2 to show how it doesn't make sense to still be bound to the law after "dying" in the same way that no one is still married to a dead spouse. Hence the importance that's made for believers to "die with Christ" and be figuratively raised again. This is what baptism is.
[–]thisnamedoesntexist 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago*
Totes, just that unfortunately some people are 'red letter Christians' and only want to regard things Jesus actually said, but the passage from Mark still challenges that idea in a way the letters may not. Anywho, yeah, Christ, and Christian intentions in the bible are pretty clear on not disregarding the law, which makes the idea that the unbecoming laws about slavery, rape, public executions, are things that should trouble and challenge Christians.
Edit: sorry Matthew, not Mark
I think there's an important difference between things explicitly given as laws and the other OT narratives (some of which are used to make those claims you mentioned). Even for the laws that are fairly hard to swallow by modern standards, the NT slant on it is that you can't be right with God following the letter of the law (eg sex with betrothed/unbetrothed women laws) because you'll almost certainly miss the overriding principle which was "love your neighbour as yourself" (this "sums up" the law and prophets said Jesus). For example, I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) there is any actual record of a disobedient child being stoned to death even though the law says it. It's unclear if the law itself was supposed to just act as a "bogey man", or was supposed to provoke the parents to contend with God and their conscience.
[–]Buffalox 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I am of the opinion that that was Jesus' intention
I'm sure it was Harry Potters too, and neither matter, because neither ever existed.
Why not talk a bit about reality instead of childish fairytales?
[–]tohlenforst 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Not all areas and times of the world have the same views as you.
[–]alexisaacs -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
You missed one: Incest! The Bible condones it, adores it, and thinks it's mad sexylicious. Like, fuck I want that daddy dick in my ears so bad my nipples are wet just thinking about it. That kind of shit.
But then you look at nature, and you see that it actively hates incest, to the point where it fucks up offspring when a baby is made from it.
But... if nature was created by god, then god must either hate incest, or was one horny ass motherfucker before going into rehab and fixing his shit.
tl;dr: How the fuck do people eat this garbage up like it's the dick of Christ himself?
[–]jeremyfrankly 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Thank you
[–]DaHolk -9 points-8 points-7 points 1 month ago
I disagree with the aproach to hold some values that fundamental.
Some values change with actual "new" information, others change with the complete expression of society.
There might not be a good explanation for the first two, but especially 3 and 4 are fundamentally not objective.
3 has become an issue with our increased capacity to "store" people effectively, which is just not possible for nomadic tribes, which nescesitates an entirely different approach to tribe security.
And 4 is at least in specifics entirely related to other arguments. Having sex with what today is concidered minors, but still childbearing is not an objective problem. True, with the risen complexity, and lifespan we have extended our period of "adolescence" way past puberty, but that is not universally applicable.
And even concerning slavery one could make an argument that it entirely depends on the specific rules about it. Ownership and objectification are not congruent, even if in reality in many cases both were part of slavery.
[–]shit_reddit_says 17 points18 points19 points 1 month ago
Did you really just tell the Internet that it's perfectly okay to own another human?
[–]jeremyfrankly 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
This clashes so much with the notion that our morals derive from religion. As our time and situation changed, WE changed our notions of right and wrong independently of the bible.
[–]DaHolk 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I wasn't commenting on the religious notion at all.
I was merely commenting on the concept that "some things were always wrong", and specifically items on the list.
[–]guer_j 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Here's the thing regarding slavery and what a god(s) should do. It should have intervined and commanded to that old society: owning other human being is Wrong. But thts not what happened, the gods actually endorsed it. Which of course makes sense, since gods don't exists hence all those stories were created by humans.
[–]nermid 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Well, it also makes sense if your god is the capricious, self-centered prick of the Bible. All of humanity exists to be his slaves, and he is the omnipotent master king who owns everyone.
If owning people is wrong, then God would be wrong. So, clearly, owning people is a-ok.
Given a cosmology where your ultimate example of Good is a guy who commands the slaughter of children all the goddamn time, it's a bit silly to imagine that his laws are going to be morally upright.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
If it's the Word of God(TM), how can societal changes make the slightest difference?
[–]FacsimilousSarcasm 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
I've never understood why people don't just edit the Bible into making more sense. Then I realized it was impossible.
[–]ElKaBongX 44 points45 points46 points 1 month ago
What we call the Bible now is the edited version
[–]MapleSyrupIsAwesome 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
And not just by that committee that Constantine threw together. Somebody, presumably during the exile in Babylon, edited the original jewish books to make them more monotheistic (traces still remain of course).
[–]nermid 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Nevermind the meddlesome translation and copying errors over thousands of years.
[–]TheScriptKiddie 6 points7 points8 points 1 month ago
Thomas Jefferson did.
[–]HarryLillis 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Although he had a swift cheat by not believing in the divinity of Christ or the relevance of the theology of the Old Testament to the conversion of 'savages'. A religion without a theology isn't really much of a religion however. His version only chronicled the life of Jesus Christ and his moral teachings as they dealt with living, but Christ's moral teachings are not extraordinary. In fact a lot of tribal cultures are more impressed by certain sections of the Old Testament, particularly genealogical lineages since they keep record of such things in oral traditions. Of course, the ease with which tribal cultures can relate to the religion is fairly telling.
[–]TheScriptKiddie 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago*
Well, you can't blame him. Jefferson was a deist, and he didn't appear to have much tolerance for theism. In his mind, jesus wasn't a holy messenger but a man who spoke wisdom, much like Buddha. It's even possible that Jefferson didn't think jesus was real, but a fictional story mean to teach a lesson. He probably could have picked a better hero in that regard, but christianity was firmly ingrained in his culture.
EDIT: can we please stop downvoting things with only one point? I'd rather not play reddit in hard mode.
[–]HarryLillis 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I do think he believed that Jesus was a historical person. I can't cite specifically but I've read many of his letters and think that his belief was that way inclined from the impression of my memory. I don't blame him; I just mean that it isn't by any means a perfect fix, or even a particularly good fix. That just makes sense, however. Religion is never going to sound reasonable, it is an entirely unreasonable thing. That doesn't reflect upon Thomas Jefferson himself though, since he was one of the very most brilliant men of all time.
[–]TheScriptKiddie 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I agree completely.
[–]kent_eh 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Others have tried as well.
[–]AngusYoung93 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
The idiots at Conservapedia actually are editing the bible
I'm willing to bet it will makes even less sense.
[–]NaChoBizness 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
I bet their cognitive dissonance makes them miss the obvious issue at play: why would an omnipotent deity require so many edited revisions of the bible to get his point across....
[–]lfernandes 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Thats one that always drives me crazy. I have a friend at work who likes to debate me all the time and every time I say anything against the bible, that's the response I get. "it was written a long time ago, society is different now, it doesn't mean the same stuff anymore," and so on. It drives me crazy because I have no response.
[–]supercordial_aliens 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
Well, the bible was supposedly written under divine inspiration. God is supposedly a timeless being, his word should be atemporal, the social context should be irrelevant. His laws and interpretations of his laws should not depend on the current social context, otherwise he would not be in control of society.
[–]ofker 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
This is one of the golden arguments, like #5 in the Book of Contradiction Arguments. Ironically, "science changes, but God never does" is #3.
[–]dalderman 11 points12 points13 points 1 month ago
Not so much a metaphor as it is a paradox created by the English translation; that and the difference between the Hebrew and Greek words themselves can cause quite a bit of confusion. The Hebrew term used in Genesis is "Elohim" which refers to God's presence, while the Greek passages in John and 1 John refer to God's physical form. English has no word to make this cultural distinction, so an English translation can only state this through connotation.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The sentence "I have seen the presence of God" makes no fucking sense either.
[–]dalderman 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Many sentences translated from one language makes no sense to another. This is an instance where cultural sensitivity is important because some things simply don't translate well. Think about Chinese being translated to English and all the horrible and amusing results; it's simply because one language isn't capable of expressing the same nuances as its original form.
[–]codybsktbll1 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
Whatever they can get their hands on.
[–]jonaheim88 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
I was going to say that. people "see" god in a lot of things. people call things that they cant explain god. have you ever heard someone say they see god in nature?
[–]Captain_Airstrip_One 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
For arse.
I have seen the arse of God.
[–]Negro_Napoleon 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
But "god" is never this metaphor.
[–]JettClark 119 points120 points121 points 1 month ago
There's a fairly complex bit of theology and narrative tradition here.
First, look at Genesis 16.7-13, where an angel of YHVH appears to Sarai's slave-girl, Hagar. The angel is clearly identified as the LORD in 16.13, where she declares that she will call Him 'El-roi,' meaning "The God Who Sees," or "The God of Seeing." It is not just an angel, but YHVH Himself, making Himself visible in the form of an angel. This introduces the notion that God makes himself known, albeit not in His true form.
The narrative in Genesis 32.24-32, where Jacob sees God face to face, involves a lot of complex wordplay. For instance, Jacob's name in Hebrew is Ya'aqob, the name of the river Jabbok is Yabboq, and the Hebrew word for "wrestled" is Wayye'abeq, all words which are pronounced very similarly. Thus, the narrative is structured around Jacob's name, leading to a conclusion wherein God renames him Israel, or "The One Who Strives with God." "God Strives" is another acceptable translation. This replaces the name Jacob, which is a play on words from his birth narrative, meaning "He Supplants," something Jacob was known for doing (see Genesis 27). The Hebrew people, as descendants of Jacob, are portrayed as strong and worthy, because Jacob was the man who wrestled with God.
The story, in that case, is meant to represent Israel's never ending struggle with God, and not a literal turn of events. Jacob names the place where he wrestled with God Peniel, meaning "The Face of God," standing as a reminder that Jacob, who had previously been afraid to so much as face his brother Esau (v. 20) had now wrestled with a deity and survived. God helps Jacob to uncover and utilize his inner strength. This is portrayed best by Jacob's hip being put out of socket by God, something which does not stop him, alluding to the fact that Jacob's strength comes from within. All of this meshes with 16.13, pointing to the fact that Jacob did not wrestle with God in His true form, but with a representation of the deity, as the story is a representation of man's every day struggles with God, and how God helps us to find our inner strengths. There's no doubt it was meant to be taken literally as well (take, for instance, the etiological conclusion that Jacob's battle is the reason for the prohibition against eating the thigh muscle) but the truth of the story is entirely secondary to the theological conclusion, which must involve only a representation of a deity.
We can use Exodus 33.11 as a further indication that "face to face" does not literally mean seeing God, but rather talking with Him personally, rather than within dreams or visions. Moses is said to talk with God face to face despite the fact that in 33.20 God tells Moses that he cannot see the actual face of God. Thus, YHVH shows Moses his backside.
In John 1.18, the Johannine writer claims that "No one has ever seen God," not mentioning His face. This claim is repeated in 1 John 4.12. The Johannine philosophy is that God resides within, and the manifestations of God are not God Himself, but merely parts of God. God is unknowable in form, but can be seen through Godly actions. Physical manifestations can be seen (I.E. Jesus Christ). These manifestations can help to make God known, but they are not, in actuality, God in his true state.
Hope that helps.
[–]hotchrisbfries 20 points21 points22 points 1 month ago
I wish every verse was as well written as your comment. There would be much less confusion. Rather then having a few vague sentences leaving the reader to come to their own conclusions.
[–]Hypertension123456 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
This is a case where fanfiction is used to fix the glaring plot holes in the canon.
[–]lemonpjb 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
This logic confounds me. What makes you think texts written thousands of years ago would be easy to understand and interpret?
[–]RadarReady 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
*than
[–]highlogic 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
True. It is pretty complex... There seems to be this mental disconnect where many confuse reading with comprehending... Most around here would be better off not reading it all.
[–]burgerboy426 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
Isn't the problem that the book is so complex that people will believe any interpretation that comes along that is from a supposedly trustworthy source? So that's how we get all the different relations?
My problem with the Bible is not that there are discrepancies, its that people twist its words for their own purpose or to further the cause they were brainwashed into.
[–]highlogic 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Why would you have a problem with the Bible because of what people do with it?
This sounds like the same logic as those that blame guns for killing people. "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." Likewise, the Bible doesn't kill people. People kill people. It is in our nature regardless of the tool we use… The religious and the non-religious are both guilty of using the Bible as a weapon, twisting it for their own purposes or to continue brainwashing.
[–]womanisadangercat 7 points8 points9 points 1 month ago
I started reading the bible.I think I would have been better off not reading it at all.
I'm reading what is likely the most straightforward bible with the most dumbed down language and I still spend more time doing outside research than I do simply reading the bible. It's not a casual read in the slightest.
Actually, you would be an example of who should read the Bible! Too many only do a superficial reading and never gain a single thing from it. I am sure your work will pay off if you keep at it.
[–]Voxx101 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I guess you've never read any classical literature
[–]Raziid 13 points14 points15 points 1 month ago
I don't buy the paragraph about this being a metaphor. While your word analysis is spot on, Jacob was beaten and physically limped after this. The Bible is not a narrative of 'strength from within', but finding strength from above.
And as far as the Johannine philosophy, that is contrary to Greek word used 'to see' in that Jesus was the only one to be able to see God intimately. Other men have only seen the surface. Its not a degree of physicality or manifestation, but a degree of depth in how one sees God.
[–]JettClark 8 points9 points10 points 1 month ago
I just realized that I said it's meant both to be taken literally, and metaphorically, which is a contradiction in itself, but I suppose I mean both in a way. The veracity of the account lends to the authority of the theology, but the theology is the most important aspect of the narrative.
About Jacob, he still needs God to find his inner strength, but strength indeed he finds. Throughout the Bible God shows people things and helps them along their way, but there are many instances where He merely gives instructions and then expects the characters to find the means to carry them to fruition.
I also believe we're talking about two sides of the same coin as far as the John stuff goes, but you are right. The primary definition in this case is definitely that only Christ "understood" God. The word ἑώρακεν can mean to see, to look upon, to perceive, to experience, and whatever else. The Johannine writers were most likely not discussing God's physical form. Good stuff.
[–]HarryLillis 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
So, why does Jacob wrestle with God? I mean, that seems to paint a very different picture of God than the one in films where everyone assumes the position to relieve gas when they see God. Wouldn't God just make you evaporate into oblivion if you tried to wrestle with him?
[–]JettClark 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Frankly, the appearance of God changes according to the needs of the story and to the predominant beliefs of the period. For instance, the verse where God says he has to book it before dawn is actually a slightly evolved holdover from a highly antiquated tradition that states that the sun God defeats the moon God every morning and vice versa. I have no idea if that was ever meant to be taken literally.
God takes on a number of roles. He's the celestial God who defeats chaos in Genesis 1, and then he's the physical God wandering around the garden only a short while later. He's the King of Persia in Job, the God who "remembers" in Noah's Ark instead of just knowing, and so on, and so forth. Different writers portrayed God differently as a way of explaining his character. It's too confusing to try and write an explanatory narrative involving God as a limitless being who can do anything, so He's occasionally given human attributes, feelings, and limits for the sake of understanding.
It would be a fascinating annotation if you had a version of the bible that pointed out every time there was a reference to a more antiquated form of theology than the one presently believed among modern practitioners. Does such an annotation exist? I'd read the whole thing.
[–]Mumpsimus 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Genesis 32:25: Seems like God was beaten, overpowered by a man. He then had to resort to dislocating his leg to beat him... such a peculiar story.
[–]writesomethingwitty 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
Wow, even Nostradadamus' verses were easier to "understand". There is So. Much. Bullshit in that thing you call Bible...
[–]Gravee 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I wish this kind of reply was also given to fundamentalists when they hijack a single verse or phrase to use as justification for whatever they want.
When a Christian picks and chooses single verses people seem to get all wide-eyed in awe, "Oooh, that is amazing!"; where as when an atheist does this, Christians will say "well, that's just a metaphor" or "that's being taken out of context."
EDIT: not that I have a problem with JettClark's response, it's very well thought out. I just wish it went both ways is all.
[–]mtme 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Well, you certainly wrote a reply in a much nicer way than I did.
[–]PoweredWater 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Thank you!
[–]junkeee999 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
Don't come in here with your 'words' and 'paragraphs'. The teenage master logicians here have deemed these verses to be a farcical contradiction. I think they know a little more about it than you.
[–]eighty_billion 37 points38 points39 points 1 month ago
Yet you were alive to post this. A dead atheist posting whilst alive about a contradictory verse in the bible.
I hear you like contradictions posting about contradictions so I posted a contradiction while contradicting.
[–]taint_stain 27 points28 points29 points 1 month ago
Contraception!
[–]carleslireis 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
Uhhh
http://gifsoup.com/view/825534/weebay-o.gif
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 1 month ago
But you didn't contradict yourself until you said you contradicted yourself...
[–]IrishFuckUp 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
But by fufilling his statement to be contradicting, he no long is. O.o
[–]I_Like_Your_Face 6 points7 points8 points 1 month ago
Deeper. please
His statement is a paradox, simply!
[–]nanospecial 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
It is possible the OP was well aware of his impending doom upon the discovery of contradictory verses as seen above.
Then with his dying breath, he photoshopped in the texts, proceeded to posting, and expired just as he was about to click 'submit'. His fingers then naturally took the course of gravity which pressed the necessary button to submit the said image.
So technically, he would have died from laughing at it.
[–]NukeThePope 17 points18 points19 points 1 month ago
Well, the guy from Genesis was a nobody. People couldn't stand him, he didn't have any friends, he was literally a nobody.
Bible vindicated!
[–]saxet 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
/r/conspiracy -- he wasn't just a nobody... HE IS NOBODY
[–]danedward 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Judges 13:22 - "We have seen God!"
1 Timothy 6:16 "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."
Sooo, Those who have seen God were mistaken, but they wrote about it anyway? or Those who say you cant see God just haven't seen Him yet... Bible, you so funny.
[–]Hyphnip 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
"I have seen the face of god" translates to "Man, I was tripping balls and saw some crazy shit!"
"No one has seen the face of god" translates to "Apparently no one in Bethleham is holding... This is bullshit!"
Fun fact: frankencense and myrrh are psychoactive substances.
[–]Snarfleez 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
Relevant, and always worth sharing: http://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk
[–]SeverelyCanadian 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Came here to post this. Absolutely brilliant.
[–]capt_choob 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
"I have seen the face of God".
That in no way could possibly be a metaphor, or perhaps taken out of context.
[–]Jeroknite 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
You died and you're posting this from the afterlife? Well, it's been a good run y'all, but we were wrong.
[–]nxtm4n 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
Nah, he's just a zombie now.
[–]classic__schmosby 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I read this to the tune of Reel Big Fish - She has a girlfriend now.
[–]gbsolo12 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
This is the difference between Judaism and Christianity
[–]Logan117 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
I do not believe in God, but I still have enough common sense to look that passage up and not just assume it's true because I want it to be. Jacob wrestled with an avatar of God (a man, maybe an angel), he did not actually see God. That is what John is referring to, someone seeing the actual face of God. Saying they are the same is as logically sound as saying that the Holy Spirit causing Mary to be with child means that God just raped her.
[–]dirtygerman55 8 points9 points10 points 1 month ago
Not to mention 32:25 says that God couldn't beat Jacob in a wrestling match.
[–]guitmusic11 8 points9 points10 points 1 month ago
actuallyagog tally it says that he wasn't prevailing against Jacob then he crippled him with a slight touch. Id say it sounded more like God was humoring him.
[–]notadutchboy 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
But ... but ... that's the OT! It doesn't count any longer no matter what Matthew 5:17 says!
[–]EvOllj 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
wich one was first?
[–][deleted] 1 month ago
[deleted]
[–]suave_ass_hole 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Yeah its not that good, here's a smaller (462) version that's much better.
[–]Uparmored 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
The problem with religious scripture, for those who support it as well as those who oppose it, is how literally it is taken.
[–]knighmare 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
There is also a bit about anyone that calls anyone else a fool is going to hell, yet jesus calls people fools several times
[–]warpfield 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
And there's also Exodus for good measure: "No one can see the face of God and live."
[–]kamgar 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
which was written first? because if at the time john's stuff was written, nobody had seen it then later the genesis guy saw the face of god. It wouldn't necessarily be a contradiction...
but i still don't believe a word of it.
I'd just like to make sure I have my facts straight before I bring this up in a religious conversation... nothing would give athiests a bad name like not getting the facts straight...
[–]Slausbang 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Genesis was written before John.
ok cool. thanks for the info and advice :D
[–]fuzzy_v1 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Gotta wonder exactly how hard people have to try to ignore the context...
[–]Vanderrr 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Wait a second... There are contradictions in the bible?!
[–]mordredp 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
I'm not an atheist but this is hilarious
[–]jyapman 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Please tell me more about your experience with death....
[–]Dhomochevsky 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
IF YOU DIED LAUGHING THEN HOW DID YOU POST THIS ON REDDIT U LIAR
[–]holyghosttown 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!!! SOMEBODY FOUND THE FIRST CONTRADICTION IN THE BIBLE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[–]Karma_in_ma_pants 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Is it just me? Or do Atheists read the bible more than most Christians I know?
[–]NaChoBizness 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
To be fair, reading the bible from cover to cover is a very common starting point to atheism...
[–]KingTyr 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
It is not just you. When you decide that you are atheist, you realize that you better know your shit if you intend to take that position (especially in America).
Only in Christianity is it okay to be utterly ignorant as long as you "have faith."
[–]DutchmanDavid 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
My parents, who are Christians, do read the bible, but usually just a few verses that a book tells them to read (no, not the bible itself) and never the bible in its whole (although they claim that they have read the entire Bible). Not sure what that type of book is called. I guess it's a "co-book" if that makes any sense.
[–]prongs06 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
I know everyone here loves bashing religion and its follies, but the Bible is one of the most complex pieces of literature in the world, which is why never understood how or why some people take the Bible literally.
[–]genix2011 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago*
I wouldn't even rank the bible in the top ten, I would rank Finnegan’s Wake by James Joyce to be the most complex piece in english literature. To this day I was still not able to complete it; it is full of neologisms, puns using neologisms, ancient slang, and portmanteau words.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
I think of it as a compilation of short stories.
[–]jeniChaCha 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Scumbag Atheists, take the Bible as literally as Christians do.
[–]MrSelfDestruct17 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Are you in hell now?
[–]supahrank 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
How was heaven?
[–]taint_stain 3 points4 points5 points 1 month ago
There's a shortage of chairs.
[–]jules_serenityPi 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Wait, so Ghost do exist?
[–]OfThriceAndTen 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Did you now?
[–]FourBeersThePirate 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
This picture would still make perfect sense even without the captions on the top and bottom. I would definitely still chuckle to myself heartily upon seeing it.
[–]TripperDay 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
"I have seen the face of God"
-Howard Beale
[–]Measure76 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Mormon answer time: (because we have to justify how Joseph Smith saw god)
You can only see god by the power of the holy ghost. Without that power, if you saw God, it would kill you.
[–]rogueyogi 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Died? I think smitten is the word.
[–]Xok234 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
So what's it like after death?
[–]Raziid 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
This is tough misconception to break...in the English Bible.
In the original Greek text, the word being used "to see" God (The Father) describes a level of intimacy that only Jesus (The Son) had. The other uses of the word "to see" in Hebrew and Greek for the men who "have seen" God, are more of a simple beholding.
[–]Darkstrategy 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago*
Wait... isn't Genesis talking of the future? Whereas the line "Nobody has seen the face of God" is past tense? So could it not be potentially accurate until the events from Genesis happen?
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no scholar on the bible.
[–]LegendofRogue 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
if you died than how did you post this
[–]cheesefunnel 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Better one.
After the flood nobody is allowed to be over the age of 120.
Job lives to be older than 120.
[–]AscendantInferno 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The view that the fundamentalist bible-believing church I used to go to takes is based upon the idea of the trinity. Nobody can look upon the face of Father God/YHWH and live (hence the John and 1 John quotes), but that the human personification/son of God, Jesus, doesn't have that trait (as it would have made his ministry on Earth... troublesome). They say that the humanoid personifications of God in the old testament, such as the one Jacob wrestled in Genesis 30, are post-resurrection, post-flying-to-heaven Jesus visiting earlier in Earth's timeline, as heaven is outside of time.
I don't believe it's true, obviously, but I don't see any contradictions there (beyond the whole weirdness of the trinity and the inherent complications of time-travel).
[–]mikebearpig 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
RIP MajorStever
[–]wabbajackoff 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Apparently John was very jealous that he was not allowed to see God, and took that out in his story telling.
[–]fightghandi 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago*
Sorry to shatter the humour here but both those references are to John, right? Now, I'm not a Christian or a biblical scholar but as a historian of philosophy I happened to come across a relevant passage recently. Origen , one of the early church fathers has this to say about John: "[he] appears to count the things which are not, not among those which have no existence whatever, but rather among those which are evil" (see in Ioan 2.13.93-99 for the text and context). Origen isn't commenting on this particular passage but on a general trend in John which he traces back to earlier texts, such as Esther, which calls the enemies of Israel 'Those who are not' (4:22). Similar language was used by at least some philosophers in the ancient world, with the Stoics describing universals (such as Plato's Forms) as 'not-somethings' or 'nothings'. The point in both cases is to deny a certain type of paradigmatic reality to the targets of the comments rather than to deny them all reality. So one way of interpreting John here is just as saying that no evil person has seen the face of god.
[–]romuloxus 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Incidentally, when someone sees the face of the god they are supposed to die.
[–]jago_346 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Say hi to my Nana.
[–]TheGOO 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Project Reason great resource for Bible contradictions
[–]90873655382745267282 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Checkmate, Christians.
[–]grantswishes 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
YAAAAAAAAAWN.
[–]orus 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Meaning: You are Nobody :P
[–]dakotacali 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
OP must be Jesus to post after he died
[–]WinterIsStillComing 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
OP died laughing at the picture and yet still linked it on reddit? Now THERE is a contradiction
[–]FuzzyNutters 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I guess we can call this thread "the resurrection" then...
[–]dutch010 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
What if the face of god reflects in all of our faces?
[–]PortaParty 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Literally
[–]Gurkaan 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Rest in peace <3
[–]violinsontv 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Died and went to . . . tell me who turns out to be right dammit!
[–]OG_Willikers 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Hey man, Joseph Smith like totally saw God. Just ask Mitt Romney if you don't believe me. You see, that's why we have the Book of Mormon, because the Bible is full of errors.
[–]yaokayguy 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Oh look atheists taking the bible literally like fundamentalists do; big surprise here, idiots are still idiots.
[–]yourstoopit 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I died laughing at you. Catholics don't take the bible literally but understand the audience and intention of the writer. Perhaps you should take writing classes.
[–]EquationTAKEN 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
R.I.P. OP.
[–]thehotelambush 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
To be fair the same verse from John also says that "God the one and only" is sitting at his own side. The Torah by itself actually does makes some sense. I blame weird Christian theology.
[–]drjohnphillip 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
AWESOME!!! TY fellow redditor! lol
[–]EdmundXXIII 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
R.I.P.
[–]Enorus 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
RIP
[–]tigerfam1 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
RIP OP
[–]ForgettableUsername 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
To be fair, John happened a long time after Genesis, so that first guy was probably dead by then.
[–]BossDulciJo 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
So if you died... How did you post this? From some kind of, dare I say, afterlife? Just kidding, dying from laughter is a myth. Just like God.
[–]tehmissingframe 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Old testament vs new. I wouldnt use this as a point because that's what you're going to hear.
[–]dynaschee 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
one is from the torah; the other is john, from le jesus book. they are separated by hundreds of years and are technically different religious texts.
torah is generally taken as stories, or at least figuratively understood.
[–]Lovely33 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
I didn't know I was an atheist until I read the Bible. I'm glad God issued this manual, really I had no clue.
[–]Zacksatool 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
This is what happens when people don't know there differences in the old and new testaments....(sigh)
[–]127localhost 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Sadly, it's actually a place called peniel (which means face of God)
[–]datsusara 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
[–]WiscoGingo 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
My prayers go out to your family during their bereavement.
[–]Lexiclown 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
My condolences.
[–]Kafke 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The guy's name is obviously Nobody. jeeze, teh bible iz, lik, alwaiz rait.
[–]CyberDagger 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
You just proved the afterlife.
[–]eff_bee_eye_ 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
if you died laughing at this you have a very strange sense of humour.
[–]kuba_10 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
YOU WON, /R/ATHEISM, I WAS ABOUT TO LOG IN ANYWAY.
[–]Beastmachine 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The dead have risen to post on reddit!
[–]SourMelissa87 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Wow, setting the record straight here: Nike was NOT a pagan goddess; she was the ancient Greek goddess of victory...before modern science
[–]rydan 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
If you died laughing at this is this post proof of the afterlife?
[–]nyjets4life6 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
If you died then how did you post this? Checkmate Atheists!
[–]Notbob1234 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
and after you died, you posted this
[–]laosk 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Which means hell has internet AND awesome people. What does heaven even have to offer?
Nothing.
[–]adammwx 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
real fucking hard to find contradictions in "god's big book of bad ideas" to quote Bill Maher
[–]wolke999 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
The modern christian bible is a book that was written over a period of 4000 years or so, and thousands of people from different origins and countries were involved. The old testament being only the basis for a different religion and it new testament that started 2000 years ago. The bible is really no proof of god's existence and you also cannot negate his existence with it. If you want change mind of some theists, try something reasonable and respectful. Because we a are so much better than them, are we not? ...oh, and it's really not funny.
[–]Sunshine_Bag 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Let's make it even more fun by adding in a dash of Exodus 33:20!
[–]RepostThatShit 9 points10 points11 points 1 month ago
So the guy in Genesis saw God's face and died and so years later the apostle John was correct in stating that nobody has seen the face of God because dat one nigga dead yo.
[–]theoriginalbrick 1 point2 points3 points 1 month ago
Maybe it's like The Odyssey and the guy's name was actually nobody.
[–]RepostThatShit 4 points5 points6 points 1 month ago
Too bad we'll never know, it's not like we can actually read that part of the Genesis and see that the guy's name was Jacob.
[–]theoriginalbrick 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Shhhhh! Don't tell the Christians that! They almost believed me.
[–]gamerholic 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
John should have at least known that Adam and Eve saw god's face
[–]BardofDale 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
did you read the whole page? or just the first part of the line?
[–]wanderer11 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Looks like you were resurrected.
[–]chicagogam 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
i'm sure this is what keep theologians employed..maybe 'seen' means different things at different times and places. same might go for 'face'... but if you try it for 'god' you'll be in a world of trouble :)
[–]mtme -6 points-5 points-4 points 1 month ago
Oh ok. I'll bite. Of course, this is one verse that some dumbass managed to find. Did he BOTHER to even look at the verse before or after? NOPE. Typical.
Jacob is talking to one who is referred to the angel of God, who many people in the Old Testament actually talked to face to face. This is a man, it says that every time. A man. God taking on the form of man. Happens a good bit in the Bible. Get it?
No one has seen the face of God? Yes, no human has seen the glory of God's face. Moses had to turn away or he would die if he saw God's face. In the New Testament, there is a vision of God on His throne. The light coming from God lights up the world. People are able to look at His face for the first time.
But this won't matter to you because HUR DURR I FOUND A CONTRADICTION IN THE BIBLE (without doing a little research)
[–]LolYouDontKnowMe 5 points6 points7 points 1 month ago
"Jacob is talking to one who is referred to the angel of God, who many people in the Old Testament actually talked to face to face. This is a man, it says that every time. A man. God taking on the form of man. Happens a good bit in the Bible. Get it?"
Happened a lot back then, but not anymore...lol I wonder why?
[–]NaChoBizness 2 points3 points4 points 1 month ago
God is really, really, really camera shy.
[–]jvslacker 8 points9 points10 points 1 month ago
But still, you believe this obvious fairytale.
[–]MapleSyrupIsAwesome 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
Why should we cling onto this particular item when we have such a wide range of contradictions to choose from?
[–]soul_blade 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
God taking on the form of man. Happens a good bit in the Bible. Get it?
I thought that was one of the things that made Jesus special.
[–]dude_lol -2 points-1 points0 points 1 month ago
Is there anything you guys do other than just sit around being smug about atheism all the time?
[–]ohdalulz -1 points0 points1 point 1 month ago
=/ you know we can make fun of the bible all we want but honestly I am so progressive i dont see the point. and I always say that, and you guys always get mad at me for making that point.
I wish I understood your point.
[–]fightghandi 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
It's probably that coming from any less oppressively Christian culture than the US, this whole approach to the bible and Christians seems a bit childish and unsophisticated. I can understand its value in terms of conscious rebellion against an entrenched an powerful world view but in those communities where Christianity no longer has much social pull most people leave this kind of critique behind at school because it lacks any significant philosophical value (pointing out contradictions between English language translations of ancient texts doesn't really tell you much about the actual contents of the texts themselves). On the other hand, it does have an important social role in societies that are dominated by Christians as these kind of jokes give people something to rally around and provide a focus to help people laugh at authority. But its not really very substantive stuff in terms of a critique of religion.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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