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816
817

In the Ukraine protesters mace the police. (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by Axis_of_Logic

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[–]godlesspinko 27 points28 points ago

What's the backstory on this OP?

[–]elloelloello 21 points22 points ago

there were protests recently about the increasing Russiafication of Ukraine, with the Russian language being given further official strength.

[–]nationalism2 14 points15 points ago

Russification*, just for other readers

[–]Sir_Duke 5 points6 points ago

not sure if the police needed to get maced over that

[–]AmericanRover 12 points13 points ago

Its a very sensitive issue over there. Remember, Ukraine was under Russian control in the Soviet Union for almost a century and became independent only 20 years ago.

[–]Samusas 8 points9 points ago

The country is more or less split 50/50 (I think) between Russian speakers and Ukranian speakers.

An easy simplification is to say that in easter Ukraine (Russian speakers) are more inclined to align to Russia. While in western Ukraine (Ukrainian speakers) are more inclined to align to Poland/EU:

This split is actually historical from the days of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Ukraine was split between Russia and Poland-Lithuania. The Russians forced the language on their part of Ukraine, Poles didnt bother.

So thats why it is a big thing in Ukraine, add also the years of Soviet control, the Holodmor and the times of the Tsar.

[–]T_Mucks 125 points126 points ago

If this happened in the United States there would likely be a great calamity with numerous arrests and injuries, perhaps even a death or two. Then the internet would get pissed about the officers' reactions for two days and then be distracted by kittens by the time Jon Stewart mentions it.

[–]FoghornAZ 44 points45 points ago

I was wondering if this happened here if the police would be legally cleared should they shoot anyone (actually spraying the mace or not). I bet that they would be cleared and never brought up on charges.

[–]mjcov 25 points26 points ago

yaeh if this happened in america they would shoot everybody

[–]thepurplemongoose 2 points3 points ago

If you mace a riot officer with a weapon as a group, you really shouldn't be surprised if they start firing. Not saying it's right. Not saying it's wrong. But it's assault, that turns it into a violent protest. And perhaps not just you, but the other protesters will get shot. Cops get scared just like anyone else does.

I mean, how would you react to someone pepper spraying you when you have a weapon? Especially considering you could be disarmed. Run away? Stand there and get pepper sprayed?

Basically I think macing riot officers is asking for trouble.

TL;DR If you attack someone who has a gun, don't be surprised if you get shot (and potentially people around you).

[–]Sickamore 9 points10 points ago

You're not saying it's wrong? I'm sorry, regardless of the pragmatic interpretation of this event, killing someone over being maced while being an officer is absolutely "wrong." It would be less wrong if we were tsarist Russia, since at least they didn't pretend and act like they were acting in the best interests of the people.

[–]thepurplemongoose 5 points6 points ago

I know I'm going strongly against the prevailing Redditor consensus here, but this isn't an absolute issue. I wasn't claiming anything about the morality of it one way or another, hence I wasn't saying it's wrong or right. Looking into a riot from afar and saying "Oh my god, how could that cop do that! That is clearly wrong" is a very high horse indeed.

Macing police officers is likely to incite violence. Underneath that riot gear is a man who is scared, facing a mob of people who are actively trying to hurt him, maybe even kill him. He is a man with a gun. I think it's very unwise to put a man with a gun into such a position. It's likely to get you and maybe others killed.

That's all I was saying.

[–]reflect25 -1 points0 points ago

Wait, so macing riot officers is asking for trouble??

While macing protestors isn't?

[–]thepurplemongoose 1 point2 points ago

Did I say anything about macing protesters at all?

Macing someone is assault. Redditors clamor over any stories of the police macing suspects... or protesters, talking about how unacceptable it is etc. etc.

So why defend a protester who maces a riot cop... how is that fine? It is pretty clear hypocrisy.

What do you hope to accomplish by macing a riot cop? Police use mace to defuse situations non-lethally (well that's the point at least). The police... by the sheer fact of what they are and represent... cannot back down. If the protesters get violent, they cannot simply say "oh... well this is bad, let's forget about it." They have to escalate.

The police use mace to deter and defuse, because most people will withdraw after being maced. The cops don't have that choice.

I'm honestly quite perturbed by much of the contents of this thread. I bear no love for police officers in general... being South African, where there is corruption on a level that would make your head spin. I've seen my friends beaten and maced by police officers before, illegally detained on trumped up charges. All for bribes. I hold no illusions about police officers being Disney. But Reddit seems to operate under that general assumption that cops are thugs and bullies. Some are yes, but most are also doing a job we require... one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. Imagine for a moment being a riot cop, who everyone seems to hate despite them being entirely necessary. How do you think they should handle these situations? Mace is pretty damn appropriate for their needs.

IMO Macing a riot officer is deplorable and dangerous. And yes, it is actually worse than police officers macing protesters.

[–]reflect25 0 points1 point ago

Police can back down, and they do.

Bit off topic, but don't we ask police officers in other countries to back down all the time??

[–]MarkhovCheney 3 points4 points ago

Assaulting a police officer is grounds for shooting, I'm sure. Can't zap 'em all.

[–]Gandzilla 2 points3 points ago

and if the officers in ukraine would have shot and killed them, the whole western world would go crazy about police brutality

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]shodanx 4 points5 points ago

this is how civil war starts

[–]T_Mucks 6 points7 points ago

what did he say?

[–]el_poderoso 3 points4 points ago

Good thing you're not a police officer... too bad you're a giant pencil-dicked asshole

[–]Eric862 1 point2 points ago

http://www.amazon.com/Accoutrements-Giant-Pencil/dp/B000OS15WU

Impressive, really.

[–]thecoffee 0 points1 point ago

It is interesting that stories like this take forever to hit mainstream, and if they do they will usually only hit Comedy Central. (Unless of course its a vacation week, then no one will hear about it)

[–]backward_z 49 points50 points ago

Just a FYI--and this is something I just read this week--apparently it's no longer proper to say "the" Ukraine, it's just Ukraine. It's a country. You wouldn't say the Spain or the England.

[–]mightymaus 54 points55 points ago

It's because 'ukraine' means 'borderland' in Russian, so calling it 'the borderland' is a bit dismissive and hearkens back to Soviet times. Dropping the 'the' is an attempt to reclaim the name.

Source

[–]EatingCake 26 points27 points ago

Spoilers: Ukraine doesn't mean "borderland" in Russian; one of the suggested (unproven) etymologies is that it is derived from the Old Russian word for "borderland" but in modern Russian the word is "okraina" which is differently stressed and pronounced.

[–]omaolligain 44 points45 points ago

Yeah, no similarities there at all

[–]ms_kat_d 12 points13 points ago

I would also mention that "kraina" (країна) means "country" in Ukrainian, and "У" means "in". Y + kraina = Україна. Whatever the etymology. I like that the world "country" is imbedded in Ukraine.

edited: quotes

[–]deakterinbuuuuu3rg 1 point2 points ago

Aah yes, now I know where does the Finnish word raja (border) comes from...

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]ArcticCelt 13 points14 points ago

Because United States comes from the descriptive sentence "The United States of America" and those other names are just standalone proper noun.

Same thing for America. Do you say America or The America?

(now patiently waiting for someone to reply and correct me by building some kind of argumentation around "The Americas")

[–]backward_z 3 points4 points ago

(now patiently waiting for someone to reply and correct me by building some kind of argumentation around "The Americas")

When you pluralize Americas, you make it into a collective noun, therefore the "the" at the front is appropriate. "Ukraine" is not a collective noun. "The United States" is.

[–]Amandrai 4 points5 points ago

Exactly, just like "United Kingdom" comes from "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

[–]backward_z 4 points5 points ago

You wouldn't say "the America" nor would you say "the United States of the America."

The United States describes a collective of states. You wouldn't say "the Texas" or "the New York" or "the California."

[–]Baron_Wobblyhorse -1 points0 points ago

Wait... you wouldn't say "The United States of America"?

EDIT Yup. Missed that second "the"...

[–]fireonhigh555 1 point2 points ago

Reread what backward_z wrote. You overlooked a second "the"

[–]Baron_Wobblyhorse 1 point2 points ago

I sure did.

[–]backward_z 1 point2 points ago

lol

Paris in the
the spring

How did you read that? Read it again

I said: "the United States of the America."

[–]Baron_Wobblyhorse 1 point2 points ago

Touche!

[–]FarmerJones 0 points1 point ago

One could say The United States of the Americas.

[–]ms_kat_d 1 point2 points ago

"There are only two groups of countries which require the article "The" in English: Those with plural names such as the United States or the Netherlands. The others have names with adjectival or compound forms which require the article, such as the United Kingdom, the Dominion of Canada, or the Ukrainian SSR. English grammar does not require a definite article before the names of singular countries such as England, Canada or Ukraine." -Andrew Gregorovich

The last part isn't what you asked about, but I believe he covers everything nicely.

[–]cos1ne 11 points12 points ago

But we do say in the United Kingdom.

[–]backward_z 18 points19 points ago

But you don't say "the Wales" or "the Scotland" or "the Ireland" or "the England."

The United Kingdom describes a collective of countries, just like The United States describes a collective of states. You wouldn't say "the Texas" or "the New York" or "the California."

[–]InterPunct 19 points20 points ago

But we do say "the Bronx".

[–]ninety6days 11 points12 points ago

...which isn't a state.

[–]ePaF 4 points5 points ago

The New York is, though. The Netherlands. The Cayman Islands. It's arbitrary and does not mean 'Soviet'.

[–]backward_z 17 points18 points ago

Again, these examples are collective nouns. The Netherlands. The Cayman Islands.

[–]finite 2 points3 points ago

What of The Democratic Republic of the Congo?

[–]V2Blast 1 point2 points ago

It's distinct from the Republic of the Congo, and you can't really use the singular noun "republic" without an article.

[–]Samusas 0 points1 point ago

Then it also should be "the Islamic Republic of Iran" right?

[–]jankyalias 4 points5 points ago

There's also السودان, or the Sudan.

[–]ms_kat_d 4 points5 points ago

I would suppose that arose to describe it before it was a national entity. The Sudan was then comparable to The South, The Caucuses, The Adirondacks.

[–]HippieTrippie 1 point2 points ago

Most place names in Arabic are derived from describing the geography there.

[–]Timelines 0 points1 point ago

Ah, the land of the blacks.

[–]ninety6days 2 points3 points ago

As explained above, the Netherlands and the Caymans are plurals. Who the fuck says the new work?

[–]madjo 0 points1 point ago

The Netherlands, interesting example really.
The Dutch call their own country Nederland, note, no plural in the name.
To be fair, it used to be called Republiek der Nederlanden (Republic of the Netherlands), but that was when Belgium was still part of the republic.

You English speaking folks are centuries behind the times with naming countries!

[–]backward_z 3 points4 points ago

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/500/why-is-the-bronx-called-the-bronx

Long story short, it's shorthand for "the Bronck's," named for the first wealthy family that settled there.

[–]space_walrus 1 point2 points ago

Bronx Cheer!

[–]Amandrai 3 points4 points ago

I say "the Texas".

[–]hsfrey -1 points0 points ago

"The Netherlands"?

"The United States of America"?

"The Bahamas"?

"The Congo"?

etc.

[–]mjcov 3 points4 points ago

Le Canada

[–]backward_z 1 point2 points ago

don't read into the rest of the thread or anything

[–]apologyfestival 0 points1 point ago

The Iraq.

[–]WaterDragon -1 points0 points ago

Where I used to live, they call it The Bronx...and they are proud of it.

[–]backward_z 1 point2 points ago

But, you know, don't read down into the thread or anything...

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/w8bri/in_the_ukraine_protesters_mace_the_police/c5b8dvl

[–]JudgeHolden 18 points19 points ago

Where I live, calling it "the" Ukraine is a great way to start a fight.

[–]sexypantstime 15 points16 points ago

There are no articles in Ukrainian or Russian languages, so real Ukrainians really would not give two fucks

[–]JudgeHolden 0 points1 point ago

That's what you'd think, right? But it turns out not to be true. I live in Portland, OR which has a huge Ukrainian and Russian community and it is absolutely the case that many of them will get pissed off if you call it "the" Ukraine. (Many of them also, far more unreasonably in my opinion, get offended if you are so "rude" as to assume they are Russian.) Anyhow, the explanation for this is obvious; even though English is not their first language, they know it well enough to know that "the" Ukraine ostensibly refers to a region or district as opposed to an actual country.

[–]OrangeredEnvelopes 3 points4 points ago

Some people will fight at the drop of a hat. It's like: you dropped your hat: let's fight.

[–]sgards 2 points3 points ago

It looks like the guy has two right arms. Can't unsee.

[–]madjo 0 points1 point ago

In Ukraine, all people have two right hands. True Fact*.

* may or may not contain facts.

[–]CASUALLY_RACIST 50 points51 points ago

Opposite Day

[–]pcow 2 points3 points ago

where is this?

[–]Afro_Samurai 9 points10 points ago

Africa ?

[–]Chinese_redditor 2 points3 points ago

It's a bit sad really. That kid was arrested for murder IIRC.

[–]dieyoufool3 2 points3 points ago

Perfect username, it'd be interesting to know why people downvoted (what reasons)

[–]HippieTrippie 2 points3 points ago

Because there are some people in this world who insist there are no differences whatsoever good or bad between races and cultures and lose their shit if anyone makes a joke or points out cultural advantages or disadvantages.

[–]dieyoufool3 -4 points-3 points ago

Racism is not seeing/understanding the advantage you might have been born into Cough cough white privilege cough

[–]dumbgaytheist 7 points8 points ago

In soviet America, police mace you!

[–]cb43569 1 point2 points ago

I think we're calling that "in capitalist America" now :)

[–]ericchen -1 points0 points ago

As long as Obama's in charge, it's Soviet America ;)

[–]cb43569 0 points1 point ago

I don't follow. Are you trying to argue that Obama is communist?

[–]ericchen 0 points1 point ago

It was a joke, but yes.

[–]cb43569 0 points1 point ago

That's just a pretty hilarious thing to hear when you're in Scotland and both of your candidates are ridiculously capitalistic, but sure, for the joke's sake I won't start a political debate :)

[–]iLoginToComment 6 points7 points ago

Russia doesn't fuck around (the culture is practically the same, ive lived there).

[–]BCMM 11 points12 points ago

the culture is practically the same, ive lived there

Isn't this idea what they're protesting against?

[–]ParanoidDroid 8 points9 points ago

They're protesting for their language, not culture. Russia and Ukraine will always share a culture, akin to how the UK and the U.S share one.

[–]ms_kat_d 6 points7 points ago

Share does not mean identical. I believe language in this protest is more than just language, it stands for the right of self-determinism. But perhaps my comment is needless since no one would confuse US and UK heritage, attitudes, culture, though as you say, much is shared.

[–]iLoginToComment 4 points5 points ago

I believe the US also fought for the right to self-determinism in order to spell its works without extra vowels.

[–]iLoginToComment -1 points0 points ago

You can protest against gravity, doesn't mean you will win or that you are correct. While I am not 100% familiar with the debate despite having family live in Ukraine, I believe ParanoidDroid is correct in his post.

[–]Syjefroi 27 points28 points ago

Interestingly enough many (most?) elderly Ukrainians hate Russia because of the 1932-33 forced famine, the attempted genocide known as Holodomor, and because of the postwar ethnic cleansing by Russia. Some cultural similarities probably, but two very distinct countries.

[–]EatingCake 12 points13 points ago

"Most" Ukrainians live in Eastern Ukraine and are ethnically/culturally Russian. The Western population is more split but it's a far cry from the sort of hate you see in Poland.

[–]ePaF 8 points9 points ago

Those are all the same event. The Holodomor was postwar ethnic cleansing by way of forced famine. It has only recently been internationally acknowledged. Most Ukrainians seem to have developed Stockholm syndrome toward their Russian overlords, as there is relatively little outrage over such a serious matter.

[–]iLoginToComment 1 point2 points ago

I have family in Ukraine. Depends when you go as EatingCake's post suggest. A LOT of Ukrainians do not prefer the Ukrainian language to Russian, and cannot even speak it. The Ukrainian language is seen as inferior to Russian and is not as widely used by educated people.

[–]ms_kat_d 2 points3 points ago

This may be your opinion, and while there are many similarities, I do not agree. To call them the same is akin to saying Scotland and England are tea-loving, rainy places that have the same culture. It's just not true if you are observant or ask the people themselves. But I appreciate your comment that Ukrainians don't fuck around.

[–]lalilulelo09 -2 points-1 points ago

Careful with that cultural sensitivity there buddy.

[–]iLoginToComment -2 points-1 points ago

Have you read ANY of my other posts? This is probably the most culturally sensitive shit I've posted lol

[–]lalilulelo09 -2 points-1 points ago

It is never to late to change my friend.

[–]iLoginToComment -2 points-1 points ago

Or you could stop being a pussy.

[–]lalilulelo09 0 points1 point ago

That makes so much sense.

[–]iLoginToComment 0 points1 point ago

lol.....yea.....i guess that does explain everything.

[–]eriklol 4 points5 points ago

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, RIOTERS MACE COPS

[–]AerialAmphibian 8 points9 points ago

In former Soviet Russia...

[–]NorsteinBekkler 1 point2 points ago

WHAT A COUNTRY

[–]ms_kat_d 1 point2 points ago

but it's not Russia

[–]ms_kat_d 2 points3 points ago

Gonna get downvotes for saying /r/ukraine was on this days ago? http://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/w1s4w/in_postsoviet_ukraine_protester_pepperspray_riot/

[–]graphictank 3 points4 points ago

Here I was thinking the Ukraine was weak, it's feeble.

[–]denbub 2 points3 points ago

I'M FROM UKRAINE hits risk board

[–]PelagiustheMad 1 point2 points ago

It's a sitting duck.

[–]I_Spell_You_Smell -5 points-4 points ago

It is now referred to as just 'Ukraine'

[–]ghostknyght 0 points1 point ago

Seems like a good way to get a nightsticking...

[–]going-home 0 points1 point ago

In Soviet Russia Protesters Mace Police.

// Ukraine was then part of USSR, i guess.

[–]Tebasaki 0 points1 point ago

If you truly want to protest, I'd suggest cleaning a park. Rosa Parks never won by maxing the bus driver.

[–]LordOfGummies 0 points1 point ago

Don't be shocked if the response is rather dramatic.

[–]JUSTCALLmeY 0 points1 point ago

In soviet russia the police... Wait wut?

[–]TheLiberalSoup 0 points1 point ago

What was the context?

[–]pill_popper -1 points0 points ago

In Russia, mace police YOU!

[–]norahceh -2 points-1 points ago

In Soviet Russia photoshop two right arms.

[–]T_I_M_B_A_R 3 points4 points ago

That's what I was thinking. Unless there's another guy standing next to him with the same colour shirt.

[–]ih8registrations -1 points0 points ago

Nice to see someone taking my suggestion.

[–]Jinbuhuan -1 points0 points ago

What did I just hear? "In the Ukraine protesters mace the police."
??? It's like ...in Ukraine, protesters mace the police... There's nothing I could say to improve it. Ha Ha

[–]two_face -1 points0 points ago

In Soviet Russia, police get maced by you!

[–]jocarbart -1 points0 points ago

Seeing this almost felt as good as taking off my boots after a long hot day at work.

[–]kaasgaard -1 points0 points ago

Don't come crying when someone gets shot, then.

[–]DonovanCreed -4 points-3 points ago

FUCK THA POLICE

[–]LordOfGummies 0 points1 point ago

Says the arm chair warrior.

[–]DonovanCreed -1 points0 points ago

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