I said there is no evidence, you said there is. I'm not asking you if you personally think that games cause violence, I'm asking you to back up your claim that there is solid evidence. I ignored your suggestion of Killology last time because there was no evidence, it's not that I didn't look at it, it's that it didn't help your claim at all but since you aren't willing to back up your claim that

there is research that corroborates that [violent video games are a factor in violent crime] with any other source, I guess I need to argue against the one that you gave me

Killology... I don't know where to start on that site. I can find no evidence of causation. Some correlation but that doesn't prove anything. I have read the entire article "teaching our kids to kill". First off, the only person he directly quotes in his article is himself and hi co-authors. There is not a single quote that is attributed to anyone other than Grossman & <someone> and in his reference list over half of them are himself. If that was submitted as a university paper it would be an instant fail, there is no science anywhere in the article and no evidence that anyone other than the author agrees with it.

"[Michael Carneal] stole a .22 pistol, fired a few practice shots, and took it to school. He fired eight shots at a high school prayer group, hitting eight kids"

They are trying to claim that playing games made this kid a crack shot by citing 8 shots and 8 hits but they fail to point out the part where he shot into A GROUP of people. He wasn't picking them off one by one, he was firing into a group of people. Getting 100% hit rate when you have a bunch of targets closely packed is nowhere near the level of accuracy that they are claiming not to mention the part where they say nothing about what range he was at. Additionally, only three of the shots were killshots. So, no proof there that games teach accuracy, merely some conjecture and spin.

OK, so game my not teach the skills to kill but they introduce the ideas right?

Where does a 14-year-old boy who never fired a gun before get the skill and the will to kill? Video games and media violence.

A better indicator of the problem is the aggravated assault rate -- the rate at which human beings are attempting to kill one another. And that has gone up from around 60 per 100,000 in 1957, to over 440 per 100,000 by the mid-1990’s

Seems pretty conclusive right? Pity the statistics are picked and chosen to say what he wants them to say. Forced Rape in the US over the same period of time went from 9.6 in 1960 to about 40 in the mid 90's. Aggravated assault increased by about 7 times where rape increased by about 4 times, I can't think of a single game off the top of my head that encourages rape. Flat numbers mean nothing, yes, aggravated assault has increased over that time period, but so has every other crime. In 1960, about 58% of all violent crime was aggravates assault, in the mid 90's it was a whopping 60% meanwhile, murder went from 3% to 1%. Grossman's argument is that murder isn't a good statistic to use because a lot of what would have been murders are now aggravated assault due to better life saving techniques so that means that there are now more aggravated assaults than there would have been 30 years ago and that those assaults are being caused by games and other media. Well, the percentage that murder dropped by is the exact same percentage that assault went up by. OK, so we are better at saving lives, point proven, there is solid statistical data but that doesn't prove anything about the cause of the crimes, if anything, it proves that assault has increased by the same amount as violent crimes overall, for Grossman's argument to hold any water, assault would need to have gone up by more than other crimes.

the explanation for it has to be some new factor that is occurring in all of these countries

there is only one new variable that is present in each of these nations... media violence being presented as “entertainment” for children

Wow, that sounds like a solid argument, can you give me some data to back it up? No, no data? OK, let me have a look for myself, see if I can find any other factor that is common to most countries. Well, population is rising. The difference in income between the top 10% and the bottom 10% is increasing. Average age is increasing. Military spending is going up. So, there are things other than violent media that are increasing at the same time as violent crimes but the only one that is being picked on is the media, hell, the amount of trees in America is increasing but it would be stupid to blame them. I have said it before but I will say it again ** CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION**. Earthquake frequency above 6.9 has increased by about double in the years between 1980 and 2010. In the same period of time, the percent prison population in Australia has just about doubled. Does this mean that the higher percentage of Australians are in jail, the more earthquakes we have? Of course it doesn't, noone would be stupid enough to actually suggest that, why then can we claim that because both violent crime and violent media are increasing, one must be causing the other without some form of evidence? Even if one was causing the other, it is just as likely that the rise in violet crime is causing the rise in violent media. Without evidence of a direct causal link between the two, all we can say is that they are both increasing.

there is only one new variable that is present in each of these nations... media violence being presented as “entertainment” for children

This statement is so wrong, I needed to quote it twice.

the fact that all forms of media violence, whether on TV or in film and video games, have become more and more graphically brutal and sensational.

Violence as entertainment is not new nor is it more graphic than ever before. Roman gladiatoral combat was epicly violent and far more 'graphically brutal' than even the most sophisticated graphics engine today can produce. Before we had TV we had fairy tales which were far more horrific back then than they are today. The Pied Piper drowned all the children in an entire village. Red Riding Hood and her Grandmother get eaten by the wolf, end of story. In Snow White, the prince steals her (seemingly) dead body and she only wakes up because of the motion of his horse and the queen gets forced to dance until she dies in red hot iron shoes. Hansel and Gretal slice open the witches throat in order to escape. In 1939 we got movies like Death Rides the Range (go watch it and tell me it isn't every bit as violent as anything modern). In 1980 we got Cannibal Holocaust which starts off with the warning

The following motion picture contains intense scenes of extreme violence and cruelty. As distributors of this film, we wish to state with absoloute sincerity that by no means do we condone the artistic decisions employed by the makers of this film.

How violent does a film have to be to elicit that warning? In the making of that film seven animals were killed six of them were killed ON SCREEN. Not faked deaths, no special effects or camera tricks, the actual animals that we see die were actually killed. *A coati is killed with a knife. *A turtle is dragged to shore, where it is then decapitated and its limbs, shell, and entrails are removed and it is cooked and eaten *A large spider is killed with a machete. *A snake is killed with a machete. *A squirrel monkey has the top of its skull chopped off with a machete. *A pig is kicked twice and then shot in the head with a shotgun at close range.

TL:DR There are no statistics that show anything other than a mild correlation between video game violence and real violence but there re also correlations between completely unrelated things. Violence in media as entertainment is not new or any more bruatal than throughout human history, these claims by Grossman aren't even arguable like some of the others, they are flat out wrong.

Once again I say, there is no evidence that violent video games (or any other violent media) has any real effect that can be linked to real world violence. There is not one shred of actual proof that any violent crime has been influenced at all by entertainment media of any kind, if you honestly belive that I am wrong, if you really belive that there is any research that proves me wrong, please post it up. I'm not asking you to prove to me that video games are to blame for violence, I am asking you to prove to me that there is any legitimate research to back up the claim.