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all 82 comments

[–]Moodude 82 points83 points ago

As a web designer, can I point out the hole needs to have straight edges, and it needs to be slightly larger. Oh, and all that mess needs to be cleaned up too. Actually, I'm not sure that hole is in the right place, can you move it a few feet to the left please?

[–]mgkimsal 70 points71 points ago

It needs to be less dirty, but a bit more earthy.

[–]rozap 28 points29 points ago

Yea, I really want it to pop. Can you make it pop?

[–]bastian1343 23 points24 points ago

No, sorry. I'm a 90's webmaster so I can put up a gif saying UNDER CONSTRUCTION.

[–]whiteskwirl2 3 points4 points ago

That's okay, you can just use text. But make it blink.

[–]Yodacheese 11 points12 points ago

<marquee><blink>under construction</blink></marquee>        

[–]Scroph 1 point2 points ago

<marquee><blink><font color = "red"><b>under construction</b></font></blink></marquee>

There come the seizures.

[–]Loke7 2 points3 points ago

The code itself causes seizures as well.

[–]bastian1343 2 points3 points ago

Sure you don't want maybe like a fiery skull or something for the gif? I've got 'em all.

[–]funkytaco 16 points17 points ago

Can you use this designer jackhammer - it's actually a spoon, but the clients love it!

[–]EdgarVerona 30 points31 points ago

"Why is it taking you so long to move that hole? Can't you just... I don't know... push it to the left or something?"

[–]Bloqhead 10 points11 points ago

<hole style="float:left;"></hole>

[–]wolfanotaku 2 points3 points ago

Argh! No...nightmares coming back to haunt me.

[–]Bloqhead 2 points3 points ago

Hey, it's better than this

<div align="left"></div>

or simply

<center></center>

I saw the first one recently in some embed code for a newsletter form. Pissed me right off.

[–]Mikhial 7 points8 points ago

To be fair, HTML emails force you to use shitty 6+ year old practices.

[–]Zamarok 5 points6 points ago

When coding an html email, simply pretend that it's 1999 and all you have are table elements.

[–]Bloqhead 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, I've had to resort to shitty practices for them, but I see this kind of code in websites even today.

[–]mgkimsal 0 points1 point ago

possibly because clients want the site to match the html email version?

[–]Bloqhead 0 points1 point ago

Well yeah. That's not the point. It's just sad that mail clients are still stuck in the stone age. Also, if you're still using these tags in your websites, you need to review todays html proper practices.

[–]mgkimsal 1 point2 points ago

i don't disagree, but at some point, if a client is pushing back and wants something exactly a certain way, you just do it and move on. I don't suspect all the situations you've seen were because of that, but it's probably a factor in some places.

I worked some place many moons ago where they had a team of developers working overtime for about 4 weeks hand crafting craploads of divs, because "tables are depreciated (sic)". So we had hundreds of div cells per page inline styled to look exactly like ... tables (div style="padding-top: 3px; padding-bottom: 4px; font-family: arial, etc; font-size: 19px">info here</div>, ad nauseum). But... what they were putting in was - tabular data - they were recoding excel sheets. And by avoiding tables with tr/th/td, they made it harder for accessibility agents to use the system. My voice of reason was completely drowned out as "you don't know what you're talking about - tables are depreciated". I don't think they ever really understood that the word was 'deprecated', and tables have not, in fact, been deprecated from the HTML standard.

Anyway... that was unrelated mostly, but I felt like ranting for a moment. Back to work :)

[–]Denvildaste 2 points3 points ago

<div style="margin-left:20px">

Sure I'll move it a little bit to the left for you:

<div style="margin-left:15px">

[–]andytuba 3 points4 points ago

I'm a big fan of margin-left: -5px. So many cool tricks you can do with negative margins that will probably come back to bite me in the ass in a few years.

[–]Pr3fix 2 points3 points ago

Inline styling? Nooooooooooo! /death

[–]total_hipster 4 points5 points ago

As the UX Designer I can see that a hole is being dug but I'm fairly certain we asked for a trench.

[–]NegativeK 8 points9 points ago

As a QA, can I kick rocks back into the hole and tell you to bust them up before you shovel them back out?

[–]pikeymick 3 points4 points ago

Hey some dirt feel back in the hole. The client doesn't want dirt in the hole.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

As a technical writer I think the Interface on that shovel is a bit unwieldy and that he should repeat the process a couple of times until I understand it completely. He can then perform a usability test on my document when it's done to make sure the desired effects of the shovel can be replicated.

[–]dltylol 19 points20 points ago

The only thing missing from that image is that they're all enjoying tea while you work.

[–]SirRealle 14 points15 points ago

"Well, the rest of the PM team and I are gonna take off early to grab some beers. I trust you'll be able to stay productive the rest of the afternoon. Have a good weekend!"

[–]dltylol 8 points9 points ago

"Better finish that up by tomorrow morning at 6 am! Or you're fired."

[–]Bloqhead 10 points11 points ago

"No pressure, ha ha ha!"

[–]Bloqhead 5 points6 points ago

Actually, the setting should be night time and the programmer should be the only one there. The rest of them have gone home for the night.

[–]tobsn 24 points25 points ago

I call it the bullshit firewall. you can dig freely because all the other people keep the bullshit coming from your boss, clients, partners away from you.

[–]ursodum 9 points10 points ago

Good PM's can save your life... Bad PM's can make you take a/your life.

[–]MiracleBlue 14 points15 points ago

This. I've seen some seriously stressed out PMs due to the bullshit from crazy clients, and I'm just thankful they're there to protect me from the onslaught.

[–]Bloqhead 7 points8 points ago

I wish we even had a PM where I work. I am the PM as well as the web dev. Needless to say, I'm job hunting :-)

[–]WoollyMittens 4 points5 points ago

We've gone through 6PMs in as many months. I'm glad I get tell computers what to do, instead of people.

[–]bluthru 9 points10 points ago

That is the beauty about programming: you know it's your fault when something isn't working, and you have the power to change it.

[–]WoollyMittens 4 points5 points ago

Unless it's a third party component, that was enforced by an executive for political reasons as I've had happen numerous times when I worked for a Microsoft Gold partner. :P

[–]Bloqhead 2 points3 points ago

That is one of the greatest things I've ever heard. The bullshit firewall. Shit rolls down hill but they all have to deal with it first. The programmer just ends up with the frazzled, watered down version.

[–]tobsn 3 points4 points ago

yep. in a good company the firewall has at least two layers of protection who take the original request and dumb it down for you. the best is, they're getting blamed if shit is wrong because you can always claim that it's like you got explained from one of the layers.

programmers always complain that the guys one up or the biz dev guy or sales make more money, but coders work more. they have to understand that they mostly can go home at 5-6 and have a rather straight forward job. sales and biz dev never really stop working and take all the blame and the bullshit coming down their channels.

everyone does his part.

[–]movzx 2 points3 points ago

Programmers stop working? Tell that to the 70 hour weeks I've been pulling.

[–]hexasquid 2 points3 points ago

That's totally understandable and we've already made internal changes to our processes so it won't happen again until next week.

[–]movzx 0 points1 point ago

What's great is instead of our typical rushed three month turnaround, we're getting five weeks. Five is more than three, so that means we have more time... right?

[–]lingnoi 0 points1 point ago

More like bullshit filter because you still have to deal with his bullshit and pedantic questioning, etc.

[–]jsunderland 7 points8 points ago

I refer to it as "Management Hell." I'm currently in this exact situation as a web developer/designer. We have tons of managers who let the shit roll downhill, but only a handful of us lowly worker ants. You'd think there would be less upper-management than workers, but nope... very top-heavy... lots of cooks... too many revisions... too few hours... not enough pay...

[–]whindix 9 points10 points ago

Hmmm, that is what I've actually done some days. You know, without all the labels. Those guys are normally heavy equipment operators, surveyors, utility company representatives, city planners, and others. The guy with the shovel is making sure no one busts a line, that no one can see, with an excavator. They would all be in the hole with a shovel, but they can't be, for it is a small hole, and no one ever brings more than a couple shovels on a truck.

Anyway, I was trying to add context to this unfortunate misconception of construction workers at some job sites. Most of those guys bust their asses to make sure you can drink potable water, take a shit, have telecommunications, and electric service.

[–]NegativeK 5 points6 points ago

Shit, it's rare that I see devs write code for eight hours straight even when they don't have meetings. Nerf darts, tea/coffee, chatting, reddit, whatever -- I've seen a lot of good programmers self-enforce the "you're not going to get eight hours of quality code out of me in one day" by dicking around and letting the current problem simmer.

[–]jdc0589 6 points7 points ago

There is a reason for that. I equate writing code for 8 hours straight to taking a hard test for the same amount of time. Your brain hurts and you loose motivation exponentially the longer you are at it. Some days i do it, but its definitely not something I want to do every day.

[–]NegativeK 3 points4 points ago

Oh yeah -- I'm well aware of mental fatigue, even if other people seem to think that demanding more hours from a dev will magically multiply the amount of code produced.

[–]OutThisLife 0 points1 point ago

Yeah. You get more out of coding in 90 minute sprints, with 15 mins in between [or less] to think. If something is hard, and enjoyable, then I could go on for 15+ hours. The every day mundane stuff, though, is just tiring.

[–]lingnoi 0 points1 point ago

by dicking around and letting the current problem simmer.

Some of my best solutions came from not working directly on the problem.

[–]headfullofuselessnes 10 points11 points ago

It wasn't nearly so bad 30 years ago. They left us alone and treated us well - except the office accommodations could be in the basement or a converted closet because they'd never planned for programming staff. Things started to turn to complete shit as programmers moved up the ranks into management positions. Funny how so many of them couldn't wait to get out of programming because they were only in it for the bucks and actually sucked at it more often than not. As managers they weren't really much better. After a long career where the ratio of programmers to management types was continually shrinking I left it all behind and resolved that I would never write so much as a single line of code ever again. They taught me to despise a career that was once my passion. Too many semi-incompetent chiefs and not a enough Indians. But they had their metrics down. Project management never suffered for budget dollars because they spent all their time producing reports for management. Management loves reports, even when they're full of overly optimistic bullshit and outright fudging of figures.

[–]jhvh1134 1 point2 points ago

That sucks. I had to take a year off to regain my passion. Same shit: 25% of my time dedicated to useless meetings where us devs made wild guesses on estimates. We based our whole cycle on these estimates. Whenever I would say that I had no idea how long it would take and I would have to research first, they would tell me to just make a number up. All we did was make outlandish numbers up, and the bosses praised us because we always made or estimates. Metrics are everything to these guys, whether they are accurate or not is not whats important.

Edit: forgot to ask what you ended up doing after programming. I'm already looking for a change.

[–]Chr0me 9 points10 points ago

It only seems this way because you don't understand anything about these other job functions.

IT managers are tend to be much more overworked and unrecognized than developers. And the only dept. to put up with more bullshit and grief than IT is HR. Good PM's are worth their weight and gold. Modestly competent PR guys are worth 10x that.

[–]elus 4 points5 points ago

I agree. HR gets the shit end of the stick but competent HR at my workplace has allowed us to avoid litigation, find and manage various government grants for hiring employees across different countries, research and implement our work VISA requirements for when we get transferred to different offices, manage and analyze employee satisfaction surveys and a whole slew of other tasks that I wouldn't want to have done myself.

I also recognize my IT staff for all the hard work they do. I do part time admin work on some of the systems related to our SQL Server infrastructure but they handle the brunt of it such as scheduling and executing patching of all server environments usually at 4am on a Sunday morning to minimize down time.

I used to have to handle end to end development for our reporting/data warehouse infrastructure. This included PM work, requirements gathering, design, development and even QA. When I approached my VP and asked for him to delegate those PM duties to one of our existing PM's, my world got a whole easier. Instead of managing timelines and meetings with dozens of stakeholders across 4 continents every month, I'm able to focus on getting other work done. I've actually been able to deploy much more frequently and higher quality builds as well with time left over to experiment or read up on new features of the various development tools I use.

Edit: I don't have kind words for our strategic management team though as they have been in and out of the news for various stupidity and we've tracked their blunders over the years which have probably cost our firm a fuck ton of money. But hey, getting paid is pretty cool.

[–]willbradley 0 points1 point ago

As a IT manager who is now freelance programming, I can attest to this. Development doesn't get the 2am phone calls, operations does. I consider 7 years in IT as "doing my time".

[–]guitarromantic -2 points-1 points ago

Agreed. I wrote a blog entry earlier this year about the love affair of the tech nerd with themselves, and how developers see themselves as somehow above all of the "management crap" that happens around them. If it weren't for those people they'd have no paycheck, no product to build and no building to do it in. People thinking they're the only ones doing the real work need to either grow up or work somewhere better.

[–]jamauss 7 points8 points ago

IT NEEDS SOMETHING...

TO MAKE IT "POP"!

I want to fucking punch people in the throat that say that.

Basically, "It's not good enough looking for me to really like it but I am an idiot so I have no idea how to offer any suggestion to you on what would please me."

fuckers.

[–]organic 9 points10 points ago

Anytime someone says that, I just make the drop shadow more pronounced…

[–]monstereddit 2 points3 points ago

You forgot to put QA under the pile of shit you are shoveling.

[–]thesagan 2 points3 points ago

When I realized this for myself I quit and opened up my own shop.

[–]kakaokoen 3 points4 points ago

why? we chose to dig, not them.

[–]JL235 1 point2 points ago

Good management is really damn hard, that's why so many people fuck it up.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

IT Manager here, just dont fuck up my infrastructure and we're cool

[–]nicholmikey 1 point2 points ago

"management is success through others"

[–]john2496 1 point2 points ago

Is Programmer twice as large and italic because we're big and sassy?
edit: this is going straight to (r/shittyprogramming)[http://reddit.com/r/shittyprogramming]

[–]HalosFan 0 points1 point ago

Thanks for that link

[–]tilio 1 point2 points ago

sometimes i get the feeling some of my devs think this. what they dont see is all the rest of fucking everything that they never work on.

[–]dmix 2 points3 points ago

All those phone calls and meetings!

[–]lingnoi 0 points1 point ago

Staying late to support those coders, gotta "help out" the team!

[–]meekpaul 0 points1 point ago

I have much better experience with my ex IT managers, the rest is very accurate.

[–]CeruleanLlama 2 points3 points ago

My friend is an IT manager and he's constantly working.

[–]chrismoritz 0 points1 point ago

The strategist would be the one trying to get you to dig in the right spot, Raiders of the Lost Ark style. Your digging is sublime btw.

[–]AdamTReineke 0 points1 point ago

Where's legal? ;-)

[–]fptp01 0 points1 point ago

I'm the production manager at my work and that picture summed me up really well on slow days, on busy days i get in there.

[–]DesignerChick 0 points1 point ago

This feels so like my life right now!!

[–]petedee 0 points1 point ago

I'm curious to webdev's who are working in development studios, how many people are in your company? The company I work for has being going for a while and whilst we don't have a massive number of clients, we still only have 3 people...

[–]SonicFlash01 0 points1 point ago

We'd be making lots of money if we didn't do good work