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all 174 comments

[–]JarekBloodDragon 370 points371 points ago

Well there is a big difference but considering how much faster the second car was going.

[–]elpcavy21 277 points278 points ago

And how much more fun the 2nd car was having should account for something.

[–]softmod 42 points43 points ago

I agree. Letting a car's tail wag in a track setting is some of the most fun you can have behind the wheel.

[–]MedievalManagement 11 points12 points ago

The only problem is how often you have to change the rear tires. My fronts are going on close to 3 years. I have to get new rears at least once a year. And I've actually mellowed a bit in my middle age. I'm more selective in picking my moments to drive like a maniac.

[–]Dresden89 36 points37 points ago

Rear tires can last a year?!

-BMW e30

[–]MalcolmReynoldsWrap 28 points29 points ago

Seriously. What the hell.

-any pickup

[–]djslim21 15 points16 points ago

Even longer.

-Senior citizens Lincoln TownCar

[–]Soup_bones 17 points18 points ago

Much longer

-Brokeass and potential fiery wreck victim

[–]elpcavy21 1 point2 points ago

I concur, silverado 2500hd, going on 4 years, same set of tires. I've rotated them twice. They still have a couple years on them too.

[–]LieutenantTickles 1 point2 points ago

They last as long as you want them to.

-car with bald tires

[–]MadroxKran 2 points3 points ago

Don't you rotate your tires?

[–]MedievalManagement 9 points10 points ago

No. My car uses different size front and rear tires.

[–]MadroxKran 1 point2 points ago

TIL about cars using different size front and rear tires.

[–]SucculentSoap 1 point2 points ago

Serious?

[–]MadroxKran 2 points3 points ago

Yeah. Didn't know street cars did that, just racing cars. I'm not a car guy.

[–]elpcavy21 0 points1 point ago

Aftermarket rims can be purchased offset from one another, typically larger / wider rears on rear wheel drive vehicles.

[–]Intolight 5 points6 points ago

A lot of sports cars have different wheel sizes from front to rear. Rear wheel drive sports cars have slightly wider wheels base.

[–]crompton53 6 points7 points ago

Wheelbase is the distance between the centers of the front and rear wheels

[–]Intolight 15 points16 points ago

God dammit internet. Let me just pretend to know what I'm talking about for 1 minute! :(

[–]carl_super_sagan_jin 5 points6 points ago

it was 10 minutes until you were corrected

[–]Intolight 7 points8 points ago

You son of a....

[–]puce_pachyderm 0 points1 point ago

Ms. Internet is a swift, cruel and limitless mistress. Show her the respect she deserves because she will show you no such courtesy.

[–]JimmyJamesMac 0 points1 point ago

A lot of sports cars have different wheel sizes

[–]fearyaks 2 points3 points ago

I'll be honest. I've had an Audi and a BMW. The AWD Audi was much more enjoyable. Going full speed around a corner without sliding is how I like to roll!

[–]Billy_jack -1 points0 points ago

skyline owner here, going full speed around a corner in awd trumps both

[–]jooseygoose 15 points16 points ago

Agreed. Although the Audi looks more stable, the guy in the Porsche (Richard Hammond) has a much bigger smile on his face.

[–]xtrasneakygastro 10 points11 points ago

you have great eyesight

[–]jooseygoose 12 points13 points ago

Seen the episode. Clarkson is in the Audi.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]ricodued 6 points7 points ago

Nope. Hammond's in the Porsche, Clarkson is in the R8. Season 10, episode 2.

[–]merwaan123 13 points14 points ago

There's also a difference between turning normally and power-sliding

[–]merwaan123 6 points7 points ago

Hammond was power-sliding the Porsche and going a lot faster, while the R8 was just cornering normally

[–]alpharaptor1 -2 points-1 points ago

the camera was tracking the first car even when the second showed up, of course it would look like it was going faster:

first car goes right, camera follows (looks slow)

first car turns, moves left and towards viewer, camera follows

first car moving left and towards viewer with camera following as second car moves right (second car appears to be moving faster than the first before it made the turn. camera is tracking against second car moving right, making it appear that the first car was going slower compared to the second)

camera starts to track second car moving mostly right trying to turn (still appears faster than first car moving toward viewer)

EDIT: even the episode it came from shows them going about the same speed but handling very differently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaENG1vt6-Y

[–]Relient-J -2 points-1 points ago

You can CLEARLY see the camera stop panning while the Audi is still cornering/before the Porsche comes into frame

[–]alpharaptor1 -1 points0 points ago

actually NO, it does not stop panning. it follows if for a second until the second car burst to the right.

the camera goes right, left, right.

[–]Relient-J -4 points-3 points ago

Are you slow? It pans right with the R8 for .75 seconds then stops for 1.5 seconds and then follows the Porsche. If you can't see that then your brain is wired incorrectly

[–]alpharaptor1 -1 points0 points ago

look at the greenery behind them and the markings on the pavement. RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT! how are you only looking at the cars and not what they're driving on/around to come to your conclusion? it looks like you're the one not wired properly.

[–]sethsyd 0 points1 point ago

Actually, the camera pans right, then stops, pans just very slightly left, then right again.

[–]alpharaptor1 0 points1 point ago

it has to traverse going right to left somehow...

but that would still make it right, stop, left, stop, right.

[–]sethsyd -1 points0 points ago

Guess I had that coming. I should have said "the camera pans right, then PAUSES, pans just very slightly left, then right again."

[–]iruseiraffed 47 points48 points ago

so what you're saying is that RWD is more fun

[–]MyNizzle 5 points6 points ago

I wouldn't say its more fun... Sure, getting sideways in a RWD is amazing, but there is much to be said for being in a really powerful AWD that doesn't lose grip. It's like driving a monorail. Both are pretty awesome.

[–]Henwhee 5 points6 points ago

http://youtu.be/pLRZp5sT3AA?t=15s

sorry? I couldn't hear you over the drifting

[–]MyNizzle 1 point2 points ago

kinda boring, IMHO. sorry.

[–]Henwhee 0 points1 point ago

[–]monotone666 2 points3 points ago

and faster

[–]donkeydizzle 1 point2 points ago

wrong

[–]monotone666 2 points3 points ago

hahaha, I don't think that it is "faster." It's my understanding that the AWD versions of otherwise (mostly) identical cars tend to have a slight advantage on dry tarmac.

I was mocking the generalization made between the poster of the gif and the op in this thread. That is, the second (rwd car) is going much faster (but appears to not be in as much control). I know the joke is not funny if you explain it, but...

I guess /r/gifs is the place to troll.

[–]terqui 5 points6 points ago

IF rwd isnt faster, why does every major race series usually, save for rally, mandate rwd? F1, Indy, Nascar, DTM, Le Mans, Daytona Prototypes, GT1, GT3, etc...

Face it dude, RWD is faster. And you wanna know why? Because your front wheels only have a certain amount of grip before they slip. You can either use that grip to turn, or to brake. If you also add acceleration into that equation, you know split that little grip between 3 parameters, rather than 2. Also, rwd allows you so steer with the rear, so to speak.

If you gave a pro hot-shoe a RWD Gallardo and a AWD R8 GT (or awd gallardo if they exist, i cant remember) around a track, the professional would be able to put down a faster lap time in the Lambo. Trust me man, I used to be like you, thinking AWD was the best, but it's not. BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machines" (M's) are always RWD. Dont you think the ultimate driving machine would have the optimal drivetrain?

[–]jedrekk 13 points14 points ago

F1 mandates RWD so people DON'T drive too fast... It's banned just like traction control, turbochargers, etc.

[–]Aratix 4 points5 points ago

Most Gallardos are AWD. There are two RWD versions. I have to say i'm a fan of AWD, but only on things like a subaru STI where you can but 80% of the power to the rear and basically have a RWD car, but still have the AWD grip and saving power.

[–]yoonie 4 points5 points ago

A well made AWD system is absolutely going to be faster than RWD in anything other than perfect conditions (so basically, reality- even on the most meticulously maintained track). A lot of the limitations race series have are for excitement, safety and cost control. It's more fun to see RWD cars pushing the limits of traction on a track (though I prefer rally myself), pure speed isn't the concern of a racing SERIES ( see F1 in I think the 70s- cars were too fast and too dangerous resulting in lower displacement/FI regulations), and if racing series had no limit on the technologies used, racing would become purely a money contest.

[–]SkitchInTheAM 1 point2 points ago

I may be wrong, but I understood that it only effects the steering -not the speed. Rwd means that the rear tires take the load of the engine while the front manage precise steering.

[–]The_Hausi 1 point2 points ago

Then why did when top gear test it the r8 was 5 seconds faster around the track than the gallardo?

[–]terqui 0 points1 point ago

5 seconds faster than one of the 2 rwd gallardos or faster than one of the many AWD gallardos?

[–]The_Hausi 0 points1 point ago

I'm not sure, I would have to watch the episode again. The fastest gallardo on the top gear test track was still a second slower than the slowest r8.

[–]ndewhurst 0 points1 point ago

The M's were also naturally aspirated, when clearly it was advantageous to have turbo/superchargers. Don't be so easily swayed by the marketing catch phrases.

Grip is also entirely relative, which is why many modern AWD machines automatically adjust the amount of power given to each wheel.

[–]terqui 0 points1 point ago

I wasnt swayed by marketing, I was swayed by the awesome driving experience of an E46 m3 at 8k.

[–]spagnitz 0 points1 point ago

for the same reason they have carb restrictors, or limit ground effects, to make it slower and safer

[–]connorblikre -1 points0 points ago

well BMW themselves are the ones who call the cars 'the ultimate driving machines,' so what if I don't think they're so ultimate?

[–]terqui 4 points5 points ago

Then you've never driven an E46 M3.

[–]Henwhee 0 points1 point ago

or an E36 or an E92

hell any mother fucking M3

[–]connorblikre 0 points1 point ago

no i have not

[–]skinnymatters 0 points1 point ago

All wheel drive vehicles will probably accelerate from a dead stop more quickly than a rear wheel drive car because they have, depending on application, about twice as much grip.

[–]monotone666 0 points1 point ago

The jury is still out on which one can get the jump on the other. Some manufacturers have'nt quite nailed it down. While others produce AWD cars that are marginally better in a straight line. But, in untrained hands better on a track.

You only have "twice as much grip" for an instant, at a dead stop. After that, during acceleration, most of the weight of the car goes back onto the rear wheels.

The reverse is true during braking. The weight of the car shifts forward. If you have a car with a more "cushy" suspension slam the brakes in a parking lot with no one around. You can see the nose of your car dip and after stopping rise back up.

Look up something called "Progressive braking" for more evidence of this.

[–]lol_at_anything 23 points24 points ago

This is the clip this .gif is from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaENG1vt6-Y

[–]OhMyGodTheresASni 10 points11 points ago

About 4:10 in. Top Gear powaah!

[–]feureau 0 points1 point ago

Some say, they pronounce it powwah because it sounded cool. And that ....

I give up. I can't write for top gear.

All we know is...

[–]morpheousmarty[!] 0 points1 point ago

Some say he uses turnips to dye his blood red, some say he focuses on helping the poor, but only during brunch...

all we know is, he's called feureau.

It's basically the same manatee selection method Family Guy uses.

[–]feureau 0 points1 point ago

Manatee selection?

[–]feureau 0 points1 point ago

a-thank you

[–]hyberion 101 points102 points ago

R8: "dumtidum" - Porche: "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

[–]ZOMBIE_POTATO_SALAD 57 points58 points ago

Also the 911 has the engine in the back, it can swing out easy.

[–]aryary 7 points8 points ago

Is that because of the weight distribution?

[–]eiriklf 1 point2 points ago

Yes it is, the added pressure on the rear tires reduce the issue, but from everything I've heard it is still a significant problem with 911's. They are pretty much unique in having this engine placement, and I think it is mostly because of this.

[–]akiroaria 2 points3 points ago

It's actually a small problem. Their engine placement makes them glorious in the corners. The engine pushes on the rear wheels adding more traction so they just zip out of the corners. That is why you see so many 911's in motorsport.

[–]eiriklf -3 points-2 points ago

Do you really see that many 911's in motorsport? And how many other racecars have that engine placement? The problem is less that of little traction I believe, but more that of losing all control when you reach the limit, so you can't push the car as hard as others. Modern 911's are much better, but that is more a result of engineering than the engine placement.

[–]akiroaria 0 points1 point ago

Porches make up the majority of GT cars in endurance and circuit racing ranging from professional to amateur events. Very good teams include the Flying Lizards and Falken cars at Le Mans (which is racing right at this very moment). They have their own cup series which is worshiped by its fans and even older 911's were involved in rallying. Porsche's rap sheet is very extensive. True, the rear engine layout is unconventional, but the performance is brings has been proven to work time and time again by the races it has won. If it wasn't good, don't you think Porsche would have scrapped the idea a long time ago? 911's seem like the go-to/standard choice when on the track.

EDIT: There were about 24 Porsches participating in the 24 hrs of Nurburgring last year and some placed well. wiki, the start

There are some Porsche only series.

Some AMLS.

The rally videos are just downright fun to watch. 1, 2

It's kinda hard to find videos because of copyright stuff from televised races but if you type "Porsche track day" there will be hundred of videos showing many people using 911's at the track.

[–]aryary 0 points1 point ago

Cool, thanks for the explanation! :)

[–]H5Mind 1 point2 points ago

Puts the engine weight over the axle/on the tires.

[–]nitefang 10 points11 points ago

I might be wrong, but most of the engine has to be behind the rear axle to be a rear engine car. Mid engine is when most of the engine is between the axles and front engine is when most of the weight is in front of the forward axle. Only saying this because a lot of mid engine cars have engines basically on the rear axle.

[–]jordanwomack 3 points4 points ago

You are correct, a rear engine car has its engine behind the rear axle, however with each iteration of the 911, Porsche moves the engine a little further forward for better handling.

[–]p1r4nh4 0 points1 point ago

front engine is when most of the weight is in front of the forward axle.

Front engine is when engine is in front of the driver. You certainly wouldn't call BMW a mid-engine car, but they put engine behind front wheels.

[–]jokoon 1 point2 points ago

it depends, rear tires are much more wider on RR cars, but yes, once you lose grip, at this speed it's gonna swing. Even if you brake like crazy and turn at the same time, you have to really insist for the car to swing.

[–]ZOMBIE_POTATO_SALAD 0 points1 point ago

Rear tires can be wider, but not always. Look at the Corvette Z06, 325 rears, wider than any 911.

I imagine the good thing about RR cars (having never driven one) is that the turn-in might be sharper, since you're rotating the side without the engine. When you lose it though it is just a lot more difficult to recover.

[–]spacebootsohno 0 points1 point ago

More weight on the tires makes it more difficult to break them loose. Front engine, rear wheel drive is easier to swing out.

Edit - Unless you're talking about snap oversteer, which is more prevalent in RR cars.

[–]ShiftyBizniss 0 points1 point ago

The R8 also has its engine in the back.

[–]ZOMBIE_POTATO_SALAD 0 points1 point ago

"Rear engine" means behind the rear axle, the R8 is mid engined.

[–]ShiftyBizniss -1 points0 points ago

then maybe you should have said "rear engine"

[–]mikitu 17 points18 points ago

Its a setup scene. When the gallardo was pitted against the porsche they did the same thing, the porsche was sideways all the time just to prove their point. That said, what i see in this gif is a boring old man in an AWD and guy having fun in a RWD.

[–]101Airborne 2 points3 points ago

they did this with the R8 and the corvette ZR1 as well. They completely turned off the corvette's traction control and threw it around the track. Didnt change how much i love the vette. Here's the episode, its a damn good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4CPBfpnye0

[–]trampus1 0 points1 point ago

It's hard to tell if they love the Corvette or hate it.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]myztry 0 points1 point ago

They didn't do well in the muscle car category either.

[–]RobotKitten 1 point2 points ago

They probably weren't sure either.

[–]Henwhee 0 points1 point ago

if you're going to take anything to the track, you sure as hell better turn off traction control...

how the hell do you test something if the car is cutting power to wheels because you're losing grip..

[–]101Airborne 0 points1 point ago

yes i know.. but when you throw it against a car thats maintaining all grip WHILE talking about how hard it is to keep the vette in a straight line.. not really fair

[–]FloTheSnucka 0 points1 point ago

Hammond would be proud.

[–]anotherDocObVious 0 points1 point ago

Like somebody above said, that's the Hollywood shot - intended to put the viewer's focus on the new entrant into the discussion..

[–]benclayton 13 points14 points ago

"Ah, Richard Hammond seems to have joined us in his Volkswagen Beetle!"

[–]NighthawkNFLD 3 points4 points ago

As others have said this is a pre-setup shot for the show TopGear. Both cars are comparably fast around a regular race track.

Although it is true to say the Audi would have a very hard time trying to replicate the Porsche's slide.

[–]azlannagh 2 points3 points ago

Powerslidepowerslidepowerslide! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9u0LxIWJk

[–]Kaazoo 5 points6 points ago

[–]TheMcBacon 10 points11 points ago

The geico pig is driving the second one if you look close enough.

[–]djslim21 1 point2 points ago

"Pure.....adrenaline." snort snort

[–]mKinG11 5 points6 points ago

Man the r8 looks like a boss!

[–]stesch 2 points3 points ago

All wheel makes you slower?

[–]donaldfick 2 points3 points ago

also the difference between my first kid and my second kid

[–]fireinthesky7 2 points3 points ago

I can't watch this without hearing the Top Gear theme/"Jessica" in my head.

[–]twitinkie 2 points3 points ago

I am car illiterate. Can someone explain the difference.. as if you were talking to a 10 year old

[–]BeanBone 1 point2 points ago

The car in front (Audi R8) has all-wheel drive, which means the power is actually sent to all four wheels. Ceteris paribus, AWD gives more grip, as all four tires are putting down power, therefore giving the car a more stable disposition in hard corners. AWD cars typically respond with understeer when pushed hard, which means it won't turn as much as you want. This is safer and more predictable.

The car in the rear (Porsche 911) is rear-wheel drive, which means power only goes to the rear wheels. Ceteris paribus, RWD gives less grip, as only two tires are putting down power. RWD cars typically respond with oversteer when pushed hard, which means it will turn more than you want, snapping the rear around. This is a little more dangerous, but for those that like it, much more fun. This car has it's engine mounted in the rear, which makes it even more tail-happy than the average RWD car.

Now, if you look at the rest of the thread, you'll see there's much debate on which is better/faster. Each has pros and cons, but everyone has their own opinion. They're both pretty awesome in my eyes, but with four of them in the driveway, I'm a disciple of RWD.

[–]NOACeulemans[S] 0 points1 point ago

A little simpler than BeanBone put it:

The first car, an Audi R8, has a system that lets the engine power all four wheels at the same time, this is known as All-Wheel Drive. The second car, a Porsche 911 Carrera, 'limits' the power to only the back wheels, as is standard for Rear-Wheel Drive cars. The front wheels just turn, they are unpowered. RWD is common among sports cars and many sedans, while AWD and its close cousin 4WD is reserved for select sports cars, SUV's, all-terrain vehicles, trucks, anything that needs power to go to all wheels.

Why this matters is that if both cars have the same power, splitting it equally between four tires (AWD) instead of two (RWD) means you'll lose grip less easily because of over-powering the tires. See, if you make 300HP+ of engine power drive four tires, the contact area of tire on road surface is larger than with two tires. More rubber on the road means more grip.

tl;dr: power going to four tires means more grip than with just two tires. An All-Wheel Drive car will not 'drift' as easily as a Rear-Wheel Drive one.

[–]simjanes2k 2 points3 points ago

Fixed title: "The difference between 20 mph under perfect corner speed, and 20 mph over perfect corner speed.

[–]Talkurt 0 points1 point ago

My estimate as well.

[–]Damodaru 1 point2 points ago

The difference between a car not being driven by Jeremy Clarkson and a car being driven by Jeremy Clarkson. Then again, Porsche. It's probably Hamster.

[–]lolz_umad 1 point2 points ago

this is from top gear and they power slid (?) the Porsche like that for dramatic effect

[–]TW0R 1 point2 points ago

This is one of my favorite gifs ever.

[–]Pofke13LT 1 point2 points ago

So then looks like AWD is for getting groceries and RWD is for Tokyo drifting like a bau5?

[–]BigBallaJett 1 point2 points ago

Happy cake day!

[–]zitfarmer 1 point2 points ago

i like how car companies have cars drifting in their commercials. id never buy a car that drives sideways.

[–]GlitchLord2 1 point2 points ago

I presume this is Top Gear?

[–]Axylon 0 points1 point ago

It is.

[–]Sprewell15 1 point2 points ago

Also the difference is that rear wheel drive is sweet as fuck.

[–]asshatnowhere 0 points1 point ago

well the R8 wasnt even pushing it

[–]herabek 0 points1 point ago

Heavily exaggerated, but the principle is true.

[–]timbit_power 0 points1 point ago

I drive a Dodge Charger and I approve of this message.. Canadian winters are not fun anymore.

[–]Kaazoo 1 point2 points ago

Mustang driver with balding rear tires here. Oregon rain is still fun!

[–]BassheadPanda 0 points1 point ago

That Porshe was moving so much faster to begin with...

[–]stottpiez 0 points1 point ago

the difference between a pendulum and a brick

[–]lite951 0 points1 point ago

Which one is more fun?

[–]Kuusou 0 points1 point ago

Stability

[–]NotSeriousAtAll 0 points1 point ago

wrong!

[–]DXPetti 0 points1 point ago

[–]ttifiblog 0 points1 point ago

Engine in the rear, Porsches are known for their over steer.

[–]dresdraconius 0 points1 point ago

The Porsche was spectacular. I know it is not practical to have a rear wheel drive but life is not all about practicality, sometimes you just have to let go and do spectacular corner exits like that.

[–]EliRocks 0 points1 point ago

I loved this episode. One of the first ones I ever watched. Jezzer was taking about how the r8 was to of the heap or whatnot, the Hammond Congress sliding into scene saying something like "Oh please!" Been a long time since I saw that episode, but I child haves sworn the Porsche was awd too.. Meh lol.

[–]mojowitchcraft 0 points1 point ago

Also, if you're drifting it works much better in a rear wheel drive car...

[–]JMC813 0 points1 point ago

The difference between taking a corner at high speed and not normal speed.

[–]Beko86 0 points1 point ago

Not forgetting the Porsche is RR, ( rear engine rear wheel drive ) and also lighter than the Audi. If the Audi was pushed 4 wheel drift of under steer will ensue.

[–]NorthernLoner 0 points1 point ago

I'd still rather take the Porsche. For one, it's a classic, and two, if you know how to drive one that shouldn't happen.

[–]Renbail 0 points1 point ago

The difference between boring and badass.

[–]ufamizm 0 points1 point ago

top gear!!!

[–]Povidius 0 points1 point ago

This shit is misleading... in that ep the porsche was hauling ass while the audi was just being, well... an audi.

[–]k1ko 0 points1 point ago

I'm familiar with this scene because I've played half of the NFS series.

[–]tobidyoufarewell 0 points1 point ago

People in this thread are also failing to understand that not every AWD system is equal.

[–]mrpud 0 points1 point ago

So basically, rear wheel drive is like, way more awesomer?

[–]zombiezelda 0 points1 point ago

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[–]trousershorts 0 points1 point ago

Top Gear has got to be the greatest TV show ever conceived by a rational human mind....mad love for that show

[–]ShallowBeThyGames 0 points1 point ago

Gimme the Porsche any day.

Besides, I'm not a big enough prick to qualify to own an Audi.

[–]usedtowork -1 points0 points ago

lol turn on the traction control and that 911 will track just the same as that R8

[–]FthrJACK -2 points-1 points ago

...four wheel drive.

all wheel drive suggests more than four wheels.

[–]rcourtie 0 points1 point ago

Four wheel drive (4WD) and all wheel drive (AWD) typically mean different things, and not in the way you noted.

[–]FthrJACK 0 points1 point ago

Noted good sir, TIL.