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My face when a girl in my bio class asks "what if genetic engineering isn't what god wants for us?" (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by bingbongbebop

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[–]Dudesan 37 points38 points ago

What if electric lighting isn't what Apollo wants for us?

[–]walkerbait 13 points14 points ago

Zeus

[–]Dudesan 23 points24 points ago

Nah, Zeus would totally like electric lighting.

Apollo might not like that we're cutting into his "sun" racket. (Then again, he was a god of Education, and wasn't nearly as wrathy as Zeus)

[–]walkerbait 13 points14 points ago

I misread lighting as lightning. My apologies, good sir.

[–]Dudesan 6 points7 points ago

Is there such a thing as non-electric lightning?

[–]hahnemannpa 8 points9 points ago

Yes, a chemical light stick.

[–]Flynn58 9 points10 points ago

Neither would like that.

[–]Dudesan 2 points3 points ago

Lighting: a source of illumination.

Lightning: A massive electrical discharge, usually the byproduct of a storm.

[–]sunburnd 0 points1 point ago

fire?

[–]Dudesan 2 points3 points ago

Lighting: a source of illumination.

Lightning: A massive electrical discharge, usually the byproduct of a storm.

[–]VincetheMadMan 0 points1 point ago

Nah man apollo aint the sun god. Helios is.

[–]TheCarlos 1 point2 points ago

http://i.imgur.com/aegpR.gif

[–]five_hammers_hamming 10 points11 points ago

What if mechanical engineering isn't what God wants for us?

[–]koy5 9 points10 points ago

Then he is more than welcome to walk his fucking ass down here from heaven to try and stop us. That is what I would say.

[–]prcrash 0 points1 point ago

Love that one... Have an upvote.

[–]HugotheHorrible 20 points21 points ago

Of course genetic engineering isn't what god wants for us. God wants us to be overpopulated, unhealthy, and unable to problem-solve effectively. Don't you ever listen to the Conservatives?

[–]WoollyMittens 7 points8 points ago

What God seems to want more than anything seems to be money. I never understood that. You'd think He'd be printing the stuff himself.

[–]heb0 0 points1 point ago

God wouldn't print more money, as he supports returning to the gold standard.

[–]rkyeun 13 points14 points ago

What if genetic engineering isn't what god wants for us?

Then we win. We finally win. Mission fucking accomplished.

[–]eelsify 5 points6 points ago

but if my kid dies it's part of god's plan?

[–]WoollyMittens 11 points12 points ago

Yeah sorry about that, you just didn't pray hard enough.

[–]tophatjohnson 6 points7 points ago

but remember, praying is futile due to the fact that god has a plan for everyone.

[–]Queen-of-Hobo-Jungle 1 point2 points ago

Maybe he'll change his mind cause you asked real nice.

[–]tophatjohnson 0 points1 point ago

But going against god is a sin, so now you're going to hell!

[–]elbruce 6 points7 points ago

This question could be asked about anything. It's implicit in the entire family of issues involving the notion that God decides when or whether conception happens, etc.

The simple fact is that "playing God" is something that humans have the ability (and therefore the moral) responsibility to work out. There are a great number of ethical issues involved in genetic engineering. But merely saying that shouldn't deter us from dealing with the issue (somebody somewhere will bring it forward even if responsible scientific communities don't). So there are ethical issues? Let's tackle them. We have the ability to do this.

Even under a Biblical literalist view of human morality, Genesis 3:22 clearly states that humanity happens to have independent knowledge of morality without reference to God.

[–]Iazo 0 points1 point ago

At the rate the religious are dodging the ethical debate of genetic engineering, it's apparent that we'll be able to integrate ourselves into machines long before we've decided whether cloning is good or bad.

[–]dudley-vs-mothy 4 points5 points ago

A little off topic but what are peoples views on Transhumanism? I mean I understand getting a limb or organ replaced for medical reasons, but what happens when it goes beyond that? What happens when people are purposely getting things replaced because they are better than having the natural parts?

[–]sneakersokeefe 12 points13 points ago

I would sign right up! I mean hell, why not?

[–]dudley-vs-mothy 2 points3 points ago

Don't you worry it would create a lot of tension? I guess it comes down to what you define a human to be. If nothing but your brain was organic, would you still be classified as human? Or would there be a new classification. Really only your consciousness would still be you, is that enough for you to still even feel human.

[–]sneakersokeefe 5 points6 points ago

Awesome questions. I think that is shouldn't matter as long as your conscience is intact and operational. I am sure it would bring tension to the general population as well as divide "naturalist" and "technologists". Those are obviously made up but I can see a division of that nature developing.

You also have to take into account the religious stance and trying to block these operations with everything that they have, due to their heaven becoming irrelevant.

I am sure you would have to register certain limbs similar to weapons permits due to some having abnormal capabilities. I hope what I am saying makes a little sense. I don't know why I stay up so fucking late. ;)

[–]Craigellachie 4 points5 points ago

I feel like opening up these trans human options also opens them to abuse. We've discriminated against people for far less (skin color, religion ect.) so what happens when we give an empirical advantage to some of the population?

[–]Scimi 2 points3 points ago

Honestly, by the time major changes occur that would vastly trouble Religious beliefs through Genetic Engineering, I would hope the trend of disbelief continues and they do not have a large enough effect to stop it.

[–]sweetJosephine 1 point2 points ago

new classification. better than human.

[–]Iazo 1 point2 points ago

I would still be me.

From a strictly subjective point, what gives others the right to tell me if I'm human or not?

Fuck them, and if they try to pry my humanity away, they can do so from the grip of my cold, dead metal claw-hands. Damned meatbags.

[–]WhoWatchesTheWatcher 0 points1 point ago

Very true. The concept of individuality is rather strange it itself anyway. You are not the same person you were 10 minutes ago. Your atoms changed, your memories (and thus brain structure) changed. Different... but because there was that fluid transition through time from then to now, we consider you the same person.

So, really, even though the changes over time are more drastic... how is this any different?

[–]Iazo 0 points1 point ago

This kind of philosophy is really weird, for me. I mean, think about it. Every moment, present you dies, and is replaced by someone who's quasi-identical.

The problem is indeed, of continuity. Who can guarantee that you're the same person as the one from last second? For religion is easy, the answer for continuity is 'soul'. But for an atheist, this is harder.

Are we just our memories? This would imply that immortality can be achieved (yay), since data can be stored and replicated. This also means that unicity is put under question since data can be copied exactly, and that's not quite so yay.

Are we not just our memories? Then, what else is there? Can it be recorded/copied, integrated to a machine?

Scary existential stuff.

[–]Flynn58 0 points1 point ago

Cyborg. Duh.

[–]onthefence928 0 points1 point ago

being sentient does not require anorganic body, i suppose we could draw the line that once you augmented to the point where you can no longer breed with an unmodified human you are no longer of the species homosapien, perhaps we could call them posterus sapien or something (latin word for future)

[–]meorah 0 points1 point ago

maintenance costs would skyrocket when you start replacing too many parts. The only way to offset maintenance costs is to use ridiculously expensive materials that require less maintenance.

either way, you pay the piper for this type of tech, and most people can't afford it if it's only for the purpose of augmenting or prolonging life.

[–]Plothunter 1 point2 points ago

I always wanted a tail like a tiger.

[–]EngineeringNightmare -1 points0 points ago

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Can I get it in melanistic black?

[–]Leomaster 0 points1 point ago

It means we'll start having to define "human" as something that isn't necessarily related to shape. Take it to far extremes to see the possibilities. Like what if it's effectively a brain in a jar, but with a body to control? Or it's a perfect human shape, but none of it is original flesh, it's all been heavily engineered and modified, maybe even reinforced with biomechanical engineering.

[–]seraphinth 0 points1 point ago

A topic I'd bet video games will tackle well before any movie or book would, I mean we already have the deus ex series while movies seem to be filled with Pinocchio trying to be human (ai, bicentennial man).

[–]shutupnube 3 points4 points ago

Use their simple logic against them. Say:

If God didn't want humans to have genetic engineering, he wouldn't have made it possible.

[–]afornase 5 points6 points ago

Had a similar experience to this in an undergraduate astronomy class at UCLA. We were discussing asteroids hitting earth and ways in which we could stop them if we had enough time to plan (nuclear deflection, etc.). She actually raised her hand and asked the professor: " But wouldn't that be playing god?" the whole glass busted up laughing. I was stills Catholic then and I thought it was hilarious. But I felt embarrassed for the girl. The professor's eyes went wide as if I he couldn't believe she said it and he said something witty about how that would be the least of his worries if an asteroid were about to hit earth.

[–]meorah 4 points5 points ago

that's not a similar experience. it's 1000 times worse because in your example the belief in god and an afterlife allows her to justify non-intervention when every single form of life more advanced than bacteria that lives outside of the ocean would be destroyed.

"oh, that's okay, god is controlling the asteroid so we are all supposed to die obviously." crazy people, the lot of them.

[–]petemorley 4 points5 points ago

Surely if god didn't want it for us, he wouldn't have given us the ability to discover it in the first place.

I mean, why would god put something in his universe that he ultimately didn't want us to discover? Um. Apart from that whole apple debacle.

[–]nilum 5 points6 points ago

Why not ask God and see what objections he has?

[–]comsciftw 7 points8 points ago

My bio teacher had a group discussion on it. I go to a private christian school. Everyones answer was "its wrong because that wasnt how god built us."

Religion numbs the mind.

[–]TylerNorton 8 points9 points ago

"its wrong because that wasnt how god built us."

Most irritating argument ever. Also I've heard, "If God wanted us to eat meat, we would have fangs!". I replied, "If God wanted us to eat grass, we would have ability to digest cellulose."

[–]Gemini4t -1 points0 points ago

From an evolutionary perspective, the eating of meat has come very recently in human development. The only other omnivore among the great apes is the chimpanzee; the others eat vegetables, fruits, maybe insects. While most of our physical adaptations suggest a herbivorous heritage, the eating of red meat introduced Vitamin B12, a key ingredient in early brain development. Yes, we may not be as adapted to an omnivorous diet as say, bears, but we clearly have been moving that direction for the past several million years.

[–]smileymalaise 2 points3 points ago

God didn't create pacemakers, braces or dentures, artificial limbs, or shoes... they're unnatural!

[–]WoollyMittens 4 points5 points ago

Genetic engineering? Like cows with udders that nearly drag across the ground? Or hundreds of different breeds of dog? Or is it just sinful to poke around directly in the DNA instead?

[–]Undoer 3 points4 points ago

It's a very serious question if you believe in intelligent design. If you believe an almighty deity created you, would you want to say "Nope, we can do it better" and potentially incite it's wrath?

Obviously, Atheists like myself don't have that issue with it, or even an issue of "I don't want to do wrong by my creator", but to religious people that is a pretty big thing.

[–]Ruks 2 points3 points ago

People who believe in intelligent design shouldn't be in bio classes in the first place.

[–]whitedevil13 5 points6 points ago

I would argue that people who believe in intelligent design should absolutely be in bio classes

[–]bGODLESS 2 points3 points ago

Or should they be exclusively REQUIRED to take biology classes? They seem to be the ones who need that education the most.

[–]Ruks 2 points3 points ago

That would work if they weren't opposed to learning this stuff! It's terrible that parents undermine their children's education by telling them evolution etc is rubbish.

[–]bGODLESS 2 points3 points ago

In the words of Hank Green (from vlogbrothers) "To me there are two sorts of people in the world: those that are excited about the power and beauty and simplicity of the process of evolution, and those who don't understand it."

Parents who don't understand it they will inevitably feel upstaged if their kids learn more about the world then them by the age of 12.

Given that you said rubbish, is it safe to assume you are not from the US? If so, then I think it's fair to say lucky you for not living in a place like this, which denies evolution more than every other developed country, with the exception of Turkey.

[–]Ruks 1 point2 points ago

Yes, I feel very lucky to be from the UK in that respect. The shit you get from fundies in your country just wouldn't fly here. Most of my encounters with people like that are through Twitter with their standard BABY KILLER insults and so on.

[–]bGODLESS 1 point2 points ago

I've never once heard a baby killer insult or anything of the sort. I have a Lutheran roommate who came to the realization that I'm an atheist and live a moral life, which was a shock to his world view. Granted I don't live in the deep south, where shit get absolutely scary. I was proud of my town when the Westboro Baptist Cult tried to come protest and this was the response we had: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/81828657.html

[–]Ruks 1 point2 points ago

That's awesome! I like that the WBC unintentionally unite Christians and atheists together.

[–]bGODLESS 1 point2 points ago

I also like how they decided not to show up, then deleted the scheduled visit off of their website, and pretended as though they had never planned to come at all. Lying for Jesus, it's the most Christian thing they could do.

[–]Ruks 1 point2 points ago

Ha. Figures.

[–]svenniola 3 points4 points ago

ah, the guessing game.

here is god, allpowerful, allwise and whatnot and here we are reduced to asking, what if god doesnt want us to do this or that...

like the guy is completely incommunicado. some insane omnipotent deaf mute we are forever forced to tiptoe around incase he goes nuts.

[–]DahnyGober 2 points3 points ago

Too bad. It's happening.

[–]mjfd 2 points3 points ago

Why give free will while not wanting the given to use it?

[–]Shawnzie94 2 points3 points ago

Well then, if that's what He doesn't want for us, He should get His butt into gear and stop us! If it's really that big of a deal, He should do something about it!

[–]PostCaptainKat 2 points3 points ago

Well then he should speak up a bit more.

[–]ianrey 1 point2 points ago

Every fruit, vegetable, pet, or animal eaten for meat or other food production has been bred by humans to be other than the original version provided by god. Don't pet your dog or eat anything on your turkey sandwich with lettuce and cheese if you object to man manipulating genes.

[–]El_Impresionante 1 point2 points ago

He doesn't want anything for us. Wasn't he mighty pissed when his creations ate from the 'Tree of Knowledge'.

Fuck Biblical God!

[–]andr0medam31 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, medical intervention is ungodly. Spit out those antibiotics, stop using insulin injections, rip out your stitches and remove your pacemakers and hearing aides, you heathens.

[–]Essinians 0 points1 point ago

What movie is this from. I know I have seen it but don't remember exactly.

[–]militant_misanthrope 3 points4 points ago

Gran Torino

[–]MpVpRb 0 points1 point ago

If "god" didn't want something to happen, it would be impossible

I prefer to substitute the "laws of nature" for the word "god"

[–]WolfySnackrib 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, maybe clean tap water isn't what God wants for us either. Also toilets. Go out and live in the fucking woods!

[–]HeyZuesHChrist 0 points1 point ago

Your god is free to stop us from genetic engineering any time he pleases.

He is also free to strike me down with a bolt of lightning before I finish this sentence.

[–]VincetheMadMan 0 points1 point ago

"Fuck God. Fuck him up the ass with broken glass. I can use genetic engineering to make creatures more power than any god humans have come up with. Provided we add some quantum mechanics into the mix."

[–]Blue_Falcon 0 points1 point ago

THEN THOR WILL SMITE THEE WITH HIS MIGHTY HAMMER. THOR ALLOWS US PUNY MORTALS TO DO WHAT WE DO IF HE CHOOSES TO!

[–]Mcgyvr 0 points1 point ago

Answer: "Then he'll do something to stop it, won't he? I mean, that all-powerful thing right? In fact, if we weren't supposed to do it, why were we able to find out about it? Stop being an idiot and think critically for just one minute."

[–]DJRonMexico 0 points1 point ago

Retardation, yes. However, consider the concept that we are not omnipotent and that every single genetic modification (be it with corn or with human-side GM; see Monsanto's decades-long fuckery with corn traits, et al.) that there are a litany of consequences that cannot be foreseen. We can get out in front of these miniature catastrophes for so long, but it freaks me out that at some point we're going to create a 'solution' to a problem that ends us all. Evidence of God? I think not. But this sentiment that we are gods? Somewhat troubling.

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