this post was submitted on
1,174 points (56% like it)
4,800 up votes 3,626 down votes

atheism

subscribe1,132,961 readers

1,111 users here now


Help Atheist Organizations!

The Secular Student Alliance, Camp Quest, and Foundation Beyond Belief were all nominated for the Chase Community Giving program, which awards grants based on the votes of the public. Everyone gets 2 votes on Facebook, plus an additional one if they share a CCG page. The links for them are:

SSA | CQ | FBB

Voting runs from September 6-19


Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. Please read our FAQ.

New posts: New Rising
Self posts: New Relevant
Non-image posts: New Relevant

Recommended reading and viewing

Thank you notes


Related Subreddits <--the big list

GodlessWomen YoungAtheists AtheistParents
BlackAtheism AtheistGems DebateAnAtheist
skeptic agnostic freethought
antitheism humanism Hitchens
a6theism10 tfbd AdviceAtheists

Events
10/5-6 NAPCON2012 - Boston
08/11 Regional Conference - St. Paul MN
Giving
DWB/MSF fundraiser
Kiva lending team
FBB's Appeal to Freethinkers to Fight Cancer
Camp Quest
Ex* Groups
ex-Muslim ex-Catholic ex-Mormon
ex-JW ex-Jew ex-SistersinZion
ex-Bahai ex-Christian ex-Adventist
Assistance
Coming Out
Atheist Havens
Start an Atheist Club at Your School

Chat: #reddit-atheism on irc.freenode.net

Watch: #/r/atheism on reddit.tv

Read The FAQ


Submit Rage Comic

Submit Facebook Chat

Submit Meme

Submit Something Else

a community for

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

top 200 commentsshow all 334

[–]Lobotomus_Prime 106 points107 points ago

... because bigotry is socially acceptable so long as it is attributed to an imaginary friend.

[–]supergenius1337 30 points31 points ago

But don't some of the white supremacists invoke God and Thor?

[–]Lobotomus_Prime 33 points34 points ago

True. And until comparatively recently, it was considered socially acceptable to do so.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 9 points10 points ago

Some white supremacists follow a religion called Odinism, Thor is one of it's principle gods. It wasn't originally a racist religion, but they have found ways to use it in support of their racism.

[–]supergenius1337 7 points8 points ago

I don't see how one goes from Thor and friends exist to whites are a superior race. But then again I'm guessing logic isn't involved in that process.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 5 points6 points ago

https://thevikingworld.pbworks.com/w/page/3917372/The%20Role%20of%20Odinism%20in%20Contemporary%20White%20Supremacist%20Movements

Most Odinists reject white supremacists, just like many true skinheads reject them, but it doesn't stop them from using their names.

[–]jamesdavid80 0 points1 point ago

The biker gang "Hells Angels" also back in the 70's had a teaching or gang creed to believe in Thor and feared him, and carried mallets in thier belt loops.

[–]MasterBistro 0 points1 point ago

I couldn't find anything that talked about this, can you show me something that discusses this?

[–]jamesdavid80 0 points1 point ago

scribbling_des was referencing odin'ists, so i was mentioning the biker gang "Hells Angels" as being similar; or also fellow believers. The previous two stated comments by scribbling_des mention and detail there of of 'odinism' and ("...show me something that discusses this?" ) look at the previous two stated comments by scribbling_des :)

[–]alettuce 0 points1 point ago

Are you saying many skinheads reject white supremacists? I kind of thought those two were the same thing...

As for the Odinists rejecting the white supremacists, this is sort of like Christianity and the KKK, yes?

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

Yes, I am saying that. They are not at all the same thing. I would give you a lesson on the the history of skinheads, but it's late and I'm tired.

[–]alettuce 0 points1 point ago

Fair enough. I guess I understood they were different, but perhaps wrongly inferred that there was a lot of overlap. I'll look into it.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

How much overlap therenis depends on who you talk to and wherenyou are. You hear a lot more about neo nazi skinheads because they are the ones getting the media attention. But skinheads were not originally racist. The brief history is that the movement came here from London and originated from Rude Boys, who were from Jamaica.

[–]alettuce 0 points1 point ago

I should definitely look into it; thanks for the heads up. Except, why do you know so much about this? You aren't a skinhead, are you?

(On a rather random side note, is your 'n' key stuck to your spacebar? Or maybe your right hand thumb is swollen due to a particularly vicious bee sting? I have a similar issue with my E & R keys.)

[–]picado 2 points3 points ago

I expect it traces back to how National Socialism cobbled together a mishmash of pseudo-science, elements of various pagan religions (or at least what they thought they were) with Christian mythology, magic and made up history.

I'd also expect the process was pretty much the same as inventing Mormonism or Scientology or writing bad fan fiction.

[–]supergenius1337 4 points5 points ago

Not sure who should be offended most by that comparison. Mormons, Scientologists, racists, or bad fan fiction writers.

[–]Gaudeamus 1 point2 points ago

Thanks for that lol.

[–]SoepWal 1 point2 points ago

The logic is basically this:

The norse gods were white, so they're white gods for white people.

If you ask me, it's more likely that ancient european tribes had simply never met people of other races, at least not enough to consider them anything more than a rare curiosity.

[–]ThorAlmighty 2 points3 points ago

A brave man knows only the joy of battle and hates not his foe, a warrior sees no colour but red, and all men sing the same hymn with their last breath.

[–]CapnCheezburger 0 points1 point ago

Anti-homosexual bigots seem to typically be a bit on the racist side.

[–]prthug996 9 points10 points ago

I've never met a christian parent that taught their children to hate anyone and I went catholic school for nearly 12 years... just sayin

[–]AlisonCreates 3 points4 points ago

I didn't go to Catholic school and I know people who were taught this, including myself. Though, my dad is worse because he uses fake facts to do it, like: "Gay people shouldnt get married because marriage is for families and they shouldn't adopt because their children are more likely to be gay and that will spread more aids, because gay people are the biggest carriers, because social stigmas give them low self-esteem which makes them not respect themselves enough to use protection." Ugh.

[–]prthug996 6 points7 points ago

There were a few homosexual kids in our class and if we were ever caught treating them like second class citizens, the faculty would make sure we regretted it

[–]High_Infected 5 points6 points ago

Where the fuck did you live in this country??? Oh, wait... that's right, most people do not teach their children to hate gays. They wouldn't let that shit fly in my school either. This is in middle America if I may add. People, many on /r/atheism at least, need to realize that people are assholes whether they have religious affiliation or not. If you are an atheist asshole, then you are also going to be a religious asshole.

[–]telephonepiano 0 points1 point ago

because social stigmas give them low self-esteem which makes them not respect themselves enough to use protection

Then surely removing any prejudices and stigma would make his concerns vanish.

"We can't be nice to people because they do bad things. They do bad things because we're not nice to them."

[–]AlisonCreates 0 points1 point ago

Lol exactly.

[–]otisdog 1 point2 points ago

Honestly, I agree this seems pretty silly. I don't know of too many religions that teach their children to HATE gays. This kind of straw manning and word-wrangling muddies the water for intelligent discourse. Be precise and be accurate. Of course you could find groups that teach hate, it would be incorrect to imply that most religions do so. What religions do do (ha, I said dodo) is teach their children that there is something wrong with gays (and yes, that being gay is sinful). This is not hate--no, not the love they profess either--and calling it such prevents addressing the real issue. You really don't need to caricature religion; it does a fine job exposing its nonsense and inconsistencies just the way it is.

[–]mastermike14 0 points1 point ago

the phelps, just sayin

[–]nbrennan 0 points1 point ago

Assuming that's true (and how do you know what everybody teaches in the privacy of their families), Please don't pretend that it never happens. It happens all the time.

[–]prthug996 0 points1 point ago

yah and those people are called shitty parents, not good christians

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

've never met a christian parent that taught their children to hate anyone

Not directly. It's done in steps:

  • Immorality is Evil.

  • Evil is the work of the devil.

  • Homosexuality is immoral.

See how that works?

[–]prthug996 1 point2 points ago

predicated by, Everybody is a sinner, don't be a dick to sinners

[–]foreverforlorn 1 point2 points ago

Using religion as the scapegoat here is probably incorrect.

Most individuals who have a problem with homosexuality believe that it's a choice. The difference between racial prejudice and sexual prejudice is huge. (Please note - I'm not trying to pardon ANY form of hate or prejudice, I'm simply trying to explain it).

Racial prejudice is looked down upon because, in the end, we realize that a white/black/asian/whatever individual didn't have a choice on whether or not they became white/black/asian/whatever. Homosexuality (or whatever brand of deviate sexual behavior said individual belongs to) is much harder to explain. While a lot of scientific (the majority, unless contrary reports have recently been published/reviewed) data points to deviate sexual behavior being determined at birth, many people still view it as a choice. Hence, some people believe that the these individuals CHOSE to be deviate, while those of a different color did not.

Note: For those unfamiliar with the social sciences, the word 'deviate' does not mean wrong or bad. It simply means that a specific attribute or behavior deviates from the norm; in this case, the norm is heterosexuality (in most places, if not all?).

Edit: phrasing...

[–]pikindaguy 1 point2 points ago

It's no coincidence that the more religious you are, the more likely you are to reject gay marriage, and areas with higher religious affiliation are more likely to reject gay marriage.

[–]Bafungoogoo 1 point2 points ago

Bigotry is bigotry, the Christian bigots just like sanctifying theirs in bibleshit.

The Jesus machine sells permission slips to be any ugly ignorant evil thing you want to be. And they do it all tax free which really pisses me off.

[–]Ironhigh 5 points6 points ago

Becuse they think that homosexuality is a choice. But even if it is, hating it is still pretty wrong.

[–]FarmParty 0 points1 point ago

The ones I've talked to don't necessarily think that homosexuality is a choice, but acting on that homosexuality is. They think that homosexual acts are wrong, even if it is what comes to you naturally. Don't get me wrong, it is still an incredibly fucked up way of thinking.

[–]bpicef 1 point2 points ago

Love the sinner, hate the sin, aka I can still claim to be a good Christian because I love you as one of gods children even though I believe you are going to burn for eternity if you don't repent. It just sounds passive aggressive and cruel to think like that.

[–]FarmParty 0 points1 point ago

The Christians that are hateful towards gays use this thinking to their advantage. They defend their bigotry by saying they care for homosexuals and are trying to get them to change their ways so they don't burn in hell.

[–]mrcloudies 0 points1 point ago

Yeah i've talked to people like this.

They want gay people to pretty much live miserable lives, and hide a big chunk of themselves inside, never acting on what they truly want.

People who are pious and self righteousness to say "love the sinner, hate the sin" are actually as bad as homophobic people. Because essentially these people are homophobic to, they just do it in a way that they still can feel like good christians. In reality they are every bit as dangerous to LGBT rights as any fundamentalist.

[–]thejam15 0 points1 point ago

I have noticed that the people who are the extremely "pro gay rights" type tend to say it's not a choice, and the more chilled ones who just live their lives say it's a choice. I have a probably insignifigant example, Friend A, whom I have known since childhood is homosexual and is borderline extreme activist, states that homosexuality is not a choice, and also states that "she was born like that." Unfourtunately, she has quite a blotchy past full of evidence proving quite the contradictory of her argument. Friend B is a more relaxed type who is openly homosexual bluntly states that it is a choice. Nothing much more was said. To conclude, I must say you have an aggressive argument but still needs these questions answered. I do feel that a simple "they are fake/wannabes/etc" will suffice as much evidence provokes otherwise

TL;DR: and thats how you fold an inversely proportional obtuse right triangle that is acutely isocolese.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 1 point2 points ago

I actually had a pretty long debate with a close Christian friend about this yesterday. He has nothing against gay people, but in the beginning said that he believed it was a choice. In the end he conceded and agreed that it is not a choice. No one can choose who they are attracted to. They can only choose whether or not to act on those attractions. I feel as though it is natural for them to act on those attractions, but his feelings on that are long and complicated, but not religiously motivated, but I won't go into all that here.

[–]thejam15 0 points1 point ago

Hmm, I see. I am afraid to say I can't quite agree on that yet, but I do think I may have an understanding on how this viewpoint could come about. It is just a theory I have though, and it is likely you will not agree with it either. I could also just be wrong too. I really don't have super solid evidence proving my argument, I just don't see enough to convince me otherwise.

[–]ht15 12 points13 points ago

Wait... who doesn't care? In most of the first world its not accepted and these types of religious behaviors are heavily shunned. America just seriously needs to catch up.

[–]Delaywaves 2 points3 points ago

And even in America you will get some pretty weird looks if you get caught saying that gay people are bad. (Unless you're in the middle of rural Alabama, Mississippi, etc.)

[–]SoepWal 0 points1 point ago

Even there, I've never seen it happen in public.

Homophobia, like racism, is something your least favorite uncle spews at the dinner table, when he feels safe in the presence of people he thinks agree with him.

[–]SnakeMan448 18 points19 points ago

Because society learns in baby steps.

[–]Old_Greggg 1 point2 points ago

Perhaps we should start calling them religious supremacists..

[–]soulking 18 points19 points ago

The basic retort I get when bringing that up can be summarized into this, "HUR DUR It's different."

[–]moogle516 20 points21 points ago

The ones I get are dumbfucks who say being black isn't a choice but being gay is a choice.

That's the justification they use.

[–]tapdncingchemist 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, it's definitely about the whole choice thing. To some extent, they have a point about it being different, even though I fundamentally disagree with them. If you are gay, you can always choose to live in the closet, but you can't choose to not be black. Granted, I don't think anyone should be forced to live a lifestyle that contradicts their natural inclination, but that is the argument and there is a fine line between the two.

[–]Masher88 0 points1 point ago

That's exactly right. That is the rationalization. They really do believe that being gay is a choice that people are making...despite all the harassment they know they will encounter, they choose to be gay.

[–]MythicalLeopard 1 point2 points ago

I think the whole "It's a choice." thing came about as a way of not having to deal with the fact that since it isnt a choice, then when god made the person he made them gay.

So it mostly just makes it easier to claim god hates gays if you believe that god didn't make them gay and they chose to be.

[–]fizolof 5 points6 points ago

Just like If I said that hating pedophiles shouldn't be acceptable, you wouldn't respond with "but it's different".

[–]QuicklyMade 0 points1 point ago

To be clear, you are in fact equating homosexuality to pedophilia, right?

[–]fizolof 1 point2 points ago

Where?

OP seems to say that "but it's different" is a bad argument, but he would say exactly this if I brought up pedophilia. This whole post makes the argument that since it's not ok to hate one group, it's not ok to hate another - it's not true, everybody would agree that there are groups that deserve to be hated.

[–]repins 1 point2 points ago

Not really, the OP (and anyone that makes this argument) is making his argument on the assumption that people don't choose to be gay and thus it is equal to being a different race. These same people say that people choose to be attracted to pedophilia and thus the difference. Gay/black/dark skinned/olive skinned whatever are in the OPs logic, things that you don't get to choose, while something such as pedophilia would be a choice according to them.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 2 points3 points ago

Who says that people choose to be attracted to children?

"but it's different" is not, in and of itself, an argument. I think that's the point.

Pedophilia is different because it involves non-consenting minors and breaks several laws.

[–]repins 0 points1 point ago

I don't know. If you're agreeing that they aren't making a choice then I think your argument completely collapses mainly because breaking several laws isn't a good argument.

Those laws are based on societies choices. Society made those laws that would be broken. This is nothing near as extreme but take for instance America's drinking laws verse most countries in Europe. Europe gives that responsibility to people much younger. Is Europe wrong that they let children drink at a younger age?

Or Canada's laws for consent. I believe you can consent at fifteen in Canada. However a fifteen year old Canadian isn't inherently different from a fifteen year old American. Canada's society has just deemed that fifteen was an appropriate age.

So when your core argument is that it is wrong and breaks laws, well, it's not much of an argument because we're the ones making the laws. So in your eyes it would be right if the law was changed to eight? That's how you're basing your judgement isn't it?

This of course completely excludes that in most jurisdictions homosexual sex is technically illegal still. Even in private behind closed doors it's technically illegal in quite a bit of America. So based on your same logic it's now OK to say that it's wrong and deny them rights?

Clearly I'm playing devils advocate here but I think it should be pointed out that the people against equal rights for homosexuals are against it because they see it as wrong/bad just as we would see pedophilia.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

People cannot choose what arouses them sexually. They can choose whether or not to act on their urges. Adult homosexuals are not breaking any laws, pedophiles are.

Edit: I should say they are not hurting anyone as many states still have blue laws against homosexual relations. A homosexual relationship between two consenting adults hurts no one. Pedophiles do irreparable damage to children,

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

And I wasn't trying to make an argument at all. I was only trying to say that "but it's different" is not a valid argument.

[–]Corwinator 0 points1 point ago

I want to preface my question by telling you I'm not being demeaning in any way.

How do you think a pedophile becomes a pedophile? Or in other words, how do you think a person decides they want to have sex with an animal, or a group of people, or a dead person?

[–]cdcformatc 22 points23 points ago

There are atheists who hate gays as well.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 11 points12 points ago

Of course there are.

[–]Bafungoogoo 4 points5 points ago

I wonder what they blame their ignorance on if not using poisoned religious ignorance as the excuse?

[–]Bio-ScienceGuy 1 point2 points ago

Because we're different.

[–]QuaereVerumm 0 points1 point ago

From my experience, the excuse is that "it's just wrong" or "unnatural." Vaginas are naturally supposed to have something inserted into them; men's assholes are not, it's unnatural. So I guess lesbians with dildos or vibrators are "natural."

Edit: Probably should have given context; I've heard this from someone who thought gay men are wrong, but not lesbians.

[–]xeerox 0 points1 point ago

Also, many supposedly anti-gay Bible verses use the term "man", so it's unclear as to whether it means "man" as in male, or "man" as in "mankind".

[–]thejam15 0 points1 point ago

There are a few glitches in many translations. Going from Hebrew to modern English is not easy. I would assume it means mankind.

[–]NeoxGG 3 points4 points ago

Why bash the religious people then? I've never heard religious people saying anything against homosexuality, at least the ones I know, and most of the people I know are religious.

[–]angrathias 3 points4 points ago

Because there isn't an athiest doctrine telling them to do so?

[–]scribbling_des[S] 3 points4 points ago

Maybe not the ones you know, but I've heard many and seen thousands more in the media.

[–]NeoxGG 3 points4 points ago

I've seen those videos too. But every time they were also Americans..

[–]scribbling_des[S] 1 point2 points ago

I'm sorry, I thought it was implied that we were talking about Americans.

Edit: I thought it was pretty clear that this was directed at the closed minded Christian Americans who teach their children and anyone who will listen to hate gay people.

[–]NeoxGG 1 point2 points ago

I thought we were speaking about religious people in general. I read nowhere of religious American people.

You really shouldn't generalize the term christians with these kind of people then. These people are the matter that many atheists don't like christians, but it's a minority of christians who are like this. You should differ.

[–]pikindaguy 1 point2 points ago

It's no coincidence that the more religious you are, the more likely you are to reject gay marriage, and areas with higher religious affiliation are more likely to reject gay marriage.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

Although you can't name one single lobby group with actual power or influence that identifies as atheist or who's gay hate is motivated by atheism. Not one.

But I can name gay hating lobby groups in America that are religious or motivated by religion/funded by religiously motivated people: all of them.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

So true.

[–]Jamnit 2 points3 points ago

There's this new thing called hypocrisy.

[–]spamandramen 2 points3 points ago

because progress sometimes go backwards, and if we don't continue fighting for freedom we can even lose what we gained.

[–]hat678 14 points15 points ago

I am about to get jumped by the racists form reddit for saying this, but. . . . . Blacks are still not treated as equal to whites, even today, in the U.S. Especially in the workplace, there is gang mentality among whites directed toward people with a different skin color.

Also, look up any black poetry on youtube, then go read the comments.

[–]TricksterPriestJace 7 points8 points ago

But at least this crap isn't as socially acceptable.

[–]--- 10 points11 points ago

Whites aren't treated equally in ghettos though. If you're white, and walk into a black ghetto, blacks will gang up on you and rob you.

[–]douglasmacarthur 2 points3 points ago

I am about to get jumped by the racists form reddit for saying this

It's not necessarily racist to believe the level of racism present somewhere is lower than another person does, or even than it can objectively be shown to be.

I agree with you that people who say we live in a "post-racial society" and racism is extinct or negligible are at best naive, but I don't think they're necessarily racist themselves.

[–]semajin 4 points5 points ago

I've never worked anywhere that there was a gang mentality among whites directed at anyone, period. I've worked everywhere from beach lifeguard to the military to a tech company. Where is it that you've actually seen this gang mentality, and could it possibly be simply a misconception?

[–]audioofbeing 6 points7 points ago

I've been in the military, and unless you were fabulously lucky, you seriously weren't paying attention. Women and non-whites are absolutely resented in ways that white men are not. I was astounded how the tenor of the conversation would change when the room was suddenly all white dudes.

This isn't to say that everybody was a card carrying KKK member full out racist or men's rights asshole misogynist. That's not what being racist is. It's much more subtle then that, and most everybody falls victim to it in some fashion. Doesn't excuse it, but it helps make it easier to recognize. Decent people can and often do have racist or bigoted viewpoints that they don't recognize in themselves, and that others of the same sex and skin color don't consider harmful.

[–]The_PowerCosmic 3 points4 points ago

Really? Where do you live? I work for a small business in California, and I have not seen any of this.

[–]bobcat_08 7 points8 points ago

I live in California too. We're racist against Mexicans, not blacks.

[–]audioofbeing 3 points4 points ago

I'm from Mississippi, and I was really kind of baffled when I moved to Arizona. It was amazing how every single bit of weird hostility I'd seen towards black people translated directly to anybody who might be Mexican. Just so clearly not based on anything except the them v. us mentality. I knew that logically beforehand, but seeing it is something else.

[–]loganpatt 1 point2 points ago

I grew up in Arizona and came to respect the Mexican community. People often think of the few "gangsters" and criminal types when they think Mexican, but having seen it firsthand, Mexicans and immigrants in general tend to be very kind and work their stinking butts off.

[–]The_PowerCosmic 0 points1 point ago

You are correct.

[–]hat678 0 points1 point ago

I live in rural Missouri and work for a mega-corp. I have not personally been at the receiving end of said activity, but I see it happen to other people.

[–]thejam15 0 points1 point ago

I Do hear alot about this, however, I disagree slightly. Mainly due to the fact that many workplaces are REQUIRED to hire people of different race. Possibly the reason why you may think this is, well, sterotyping. If a gentleman of a different race comes up to an employer and acts rude as what a typical sterotype of that race would be, the employer would be much less inclined to hire said gentleman than if the same gentleman came up to the employer and spoke very general and professional. Now don't get me wrong, there are some people out there who really are racist and will allow that to effect their decision, but, policies and regulations are minimizing that.

[–]mrcloudies 0 points1 point ago

I think many people here are WAY over generalizing..

Certain areas may be still having problems, but there is really not much in the way of black people anymore. r/atheism's favorite scientist is black (Niel Degrasse Tyson) The president of the United States is black.

There are black CEO's and heads of industry. Things aren't perfect, and i'm not saying that black people don't still face racism at certain points in their lives. But you are over generalizing, and in many areas, black people are treated equally.

[–]AnEagleNamedSmallGov 3 points4 points ago

Because it's literally impossible to argue that you aren't born black/white, but they can still insist that sexuality is a choice and can be reversed by praying really hard. If they tried to say that a black person could pray and choose to be white it would be easily refuted by simply looking at the person.

Since sexuality is not an explicitly visible characteristic at birth, and is generally explained as being congenital via DNA, they can simply refuse to believe it because they can't see it.

[–]BaldOrBread 1 point2 points ago

They will.

[–]jsekar711 1 point2 points ago

People do care, just not all of them. Sadly, it isn't any different with white supremacy-- some people still do teach their kids to hate blacks

[–]audioofbeing 1 point2 points ago

Who are the people who don't care about this? The hateful religious people themselves? Because I'm pretty sure the logic ship sailed the fuck out of that port a long time ago.

Anybody who's not part of either of these two groups and has a problem with white supremacists has a problem with religious homophobes. What the hell are you attacking here?

[–]Alexandur 1 point2 points ago

They probably do.

[–]darklightrabbi 1 point2 points ago

You think that hating gays is considered socially acceptable nowadays?

[–]ichlibejuice 1 point2 points ago

Who said people thought it was morally right for religious parents to teach their children to hate gays? Wouldn't hear that from me.

[–]Mishwha 1 point2 points ago

People do care. Who said they didn't?

[–]donumabdeo 1 point2 points ago

Fucking a dude in the ass doesn't make you a particular race.

[–]sweetdream8 1 point2 points ago

Some of these posts are so fucking silly, who are "people" anyways? A majority of religious families do not raise their kids to be anti-gay, that's only in America and it doesn`t necessarily have anything to do with religion if that is what you are trying to say.

[–]vinunleaded0301 1 point2 points ago

not all religious people teach their kids to hate gays. if you generalize people you become a douchbag

[–]MonacoE92 1 point2 points ago

I'm sorry but how is the black race comparable to a sexual orientation?

[–]Ajhman 1 point2 points ago

Are you suggesting gay is a race?

[–]wroth 1 point2 points ago

Remember when philosoraptor memes still pretended to be philosophical?

[–]loganpatt 1 point2 points ago

As a Mormon, the church teaches us to love everyone and that God loves you no matter what (as any good parent would). Therefore not anywhere in official doctrine or from my family have I been taught to hate gays. We do believe it is wrong, but in the same sense as atheists thinking Christians are wrong. And just like some atheists, there are Mormons who take it too far and do show hate. Summary: I believe homosexuality is wrong, but I feel no hate towards Gay men and women.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

I like to hear this, because I don't like to hear about the spread of hate. But in believing that homosexuality is wrong do you also believe that they should not be offered the same federal and state benefits that others receive by getting married?

[–]loganpatt 0 points1 point ago

That is something that I myself have been conflicted with. I believe marriage is sacred between a man and a woman, but I also believe in separating religion and politics. So long story short, I think, while I don't necessarily agree with it, that we shouldn't disallow homosexual marriages.

[–]scorpion7 0 points1 point ago

So you basically believe they deserve a choice?

[–]loganpatt 0 points1 point ago

That is a perfect way to say it.

[–]Hraesvelg7 1 point2 points ago

The same churches and people who preached and railed against desegregation, interracial marriage, civil rights, even women's suffrage, are the same ones doing the same thing for the same reasons regarding homosexuals now. In many cases it is actually the exact same people, these things were not long ago. They're still alive. The annoying thing is they will lose and then claim that it never happened and they were the ones supporting equality and preaching love.

[–]scribbling_des[S] 0 points1 point ago

A fucking men.

[–]EricTboneJackson 4 points5 points ago

People who hate blacks think it's OK for people to teach their children to hate blacks.

[–]Senor_Wilson 1 point2 points ago

Some people think it's wrong... raises hand

[–]mrcloudies 0 points1 point ago

What's wrong about it?

[–]holotone 0 points1 point ago

All the money in the world says his reason is 'because god says so.'

[–]kanor13 1 point2 points ago

What Phil says at 5:10 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WnDldArbZo&feature=BFa&list=UUlFSU9_bUb4Rc6OYfTt5SPw sums up what me, and many other Christians and Catholics think of what is going on at the churches teaching hate. Atheists saying that every Christian/Catholic is okay with teaching their children to hate is like me saying that all Atheists are condescending and have blind hatred against religion, which is obviously a very stupid and ignorant thing to say.

The media sometimes makes it look like Christians and Catholics are hateful, intolerant people, but in reality many practicing Christians and Catholics are tolerant, and understand that God loves everyone, no matter what. Just wanted to clear that up.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

The problem is, of course, that the only lobby groups with any clout in this county that are against gay rights are ALL either religious or affiliated or funded by religiously motivated people. I'm not saying that all Christian's hate gays (and no one has said that, so I'm baffled about why you even said that yourself), but ALL bigoted lobby groups with power in this country are religious.

The media sometimes makes it look like Christians and Catholics are hateful

No, it's the Christians and Catholics who taking care of that themselves quite nicely. The pope himself also never lets you guys down in that regard.

and understand that God loves everyone

Yahweh doesn't exist. All that exists is people and their actions.

[–]kanor13 0 points1 point ago

That's not what I meant with the thing about the media. I'm not blaming the media for anything, I'm saying it's unfortunate that stories about religious hate get more attention than positive things that religions do, like the pro-gay march that many Mormans joined in with a few weeks back. Not saying the media is biased, or they are at fault in any way. It's not their fault for what we do, they are just doing their job reporting, I guess I'm just saying it's an unfortunate situation. Regarding the Pope, touche XD.

Yahweh doesn't exist. All that exists is people and their actions. You can believe what you believe, just please let me believe what I believe. I have a high population of agnostic/atheist population at my school and face prosecution almost everyday (I'm known as "That Christian kid"). Even my family is agnostic. If you don't want to believe, it's your choice, but please don't tell me what to believe either.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

If a news worthy number of Mormons joined that march, then they would be news worthy. Like the news worthy Mormon involvement in prop 8. That made the news because a news worthy number of them were involved. Believe whatever the fuck you want to believe, kid, but don't pretend that I have ever said anything about you with your fucking "quote" of me (most of which I have NEVER said).

but please don't tell me what to believe either.

Fuck. You.

[–]kanor13 0 points1 point ago

Oh shit dude, I meant to only quote the "Yahweh doesn't exist. All that exists is people and their actions" part. The rest is what I was saying about that.

Fuck. You.

Why are you even mad at me in any way. I was pointing out the fact that you telling me God doesn't exist, is exactly like me saying that God does exist. We both believe what we believe and neither of us can sway the other, and I respect that. That is all I was saying.

Regarding the media yeah the good things are reported on. I guess i don't really know how to explain what I meant. People who don't care about religion one way or the other generally think that Christians and Catholics are mostly hateful and intolerant people because of all the hateful and intolerant things some of us do. Before I became Christian I know I thought something like that until I actually gave it some thought.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Don't you tell me what the media reports to me, you bastard! I believe the media is a figment of our collective imaginations, and that it doesn't report anything because it doesn't exist! How dare you tell me that the media reports this or that, when I KNOW deep in my heart, and my children know too, that the media doesn't exist! You should feel ashamed of yourself for telling me what the media is or isn't, because what the media is to ME is completely up to ME. Even my family doesn't believe in the media. If you want to believe that the media reports things, that's up to YOU, but please don't tell me what to believe when it comes to the existence of the media.

Jesus fucking Christ man, you need to let up. You can't scold people for sharing their own beliefs. Maybe I do believe that the media doesn't exist, so when you tell me that the media reports something (that the media exists), then I have no right to scold you for believing the media exists. And you have no right to scold anyone else for saying that Yahweh doesn't exist either. Scolding someone is serious business, and you fuckin' abuse it mate. Why do you think I am talking to you like this? It's because I don't respect you because you scold people for simply saying that something does or does not exist.

[–]kanor13 0 points1 point ago

I'm not trying to scold anyone about anything, this post what meant to be unoffensive, i guess more as a personal vent than anything.I wasn't trying to scold anyone for sharing their beliefs at all, but you were addressing an argument, and you took what I said about my faith, quoted it, and said that it's not true, or that's what it looked like to me. I am just trying to live and let live man, so go ahead and believe whatever, It's a free country. (well I'm in America so it's a free country here at least).

Point taken about the media.

[–]cobalt77 6 points7 points ago

Most Christians don't teach their children to hate gays. I know hundreds of religious people and never once have come across someone who hates gay people.

[–]mrcloudies 1 point2 points ago

Since it doesn't personally effect you it can be hard to see.

If you had a gay friend or relative you might notice more. Many churches don't overtly state they hate gay people. But when your gay, and forced to go to church when your a teen, you see what many (not all) churches are like.

Casual jokes, references to the bible on homosexuality.. Many Christians don't teach their kids to hate homosexuals. They teach them love the sinner hate the sin. So the word used is disapproval not hate, but this can be just as problematic. You would be surprised at how much hatred there is for homosexuals in the average church under the guise of "disapproval".

You want to see how your church feels about homosexuals, ask them about it. See what happens when the topic is brought up.

[–]cobalt77 0 points1 point ago

I think the problem in some churches is not that they teach homophobia, it's that they don't want gays to marry, since marraige is a sacrament and all. My church is accepting of gays though and I believe they can marry there.

[–]mrcloudies 0 points1 point ago

A lot of churches teach that homosexuality is morally wrong. (In my experience in American churches anyway)

[–]cobalt77 0 points1 point ago

Yes, that is true. I have not heard of many that do that though.

[–]tossn00b 2 points3 points ago

This belongs on /r/antitheism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

We're not advocating the oppression of religion here. We're pointing out how some religious people think it's okay to teach their kids to hate others.

[–]colballs 1 point2 points ago

i know this is going to get buried because nobody has ever responded to me on reddit, but heres what i think. to me, this is really fucking ignorant....i feel like you guys assume that all religious people hate gay people/dont believe in science/believe that people are stupid for having religion and are condescending to those people. im very religious, though i dont exactly follow any particular set religion. i believe that there exists a soul, separate from the body, that controls the body through the mind. i do believe that there are illnesses of the mind, which can be explained through physical phenomena. i think that there are more universes than our own (the physical one that we are familiar with), and perhaps that is where we, as spirits, originate from. i dont have any specific set beliefs, as i consider myself an open person and willing to discover new things. i dont have anything against atheists as long as they arent depraved, inconsiderate assholes. the same goes with religious people. everyone can have their own fucking beliefs and ideas. dont think that you can take that away from them with your "cold logic" or whatever. get off your high horses.

[–]Schimm 0 points1 point ago

Whelp I'll tell ya one thing, by using foul language and telling us to get off our high horses your just gonna get sour responses which will just further your belief that we're a bunch of asses. See the loop that occurs here?

[–]colballs 0 points1 point ago

sigh whatever

[–]whatlad 3 points4 points ago

How come you don't care when /r/atheism helps teach people to hate the religious?

BOOM

[–]vicksnoria 2 points3 points ago

I don't hate religious people, I just think they're a bit thick

[–]cobalt77 0 points1 point ago

I don't hate atheists, I just think they're a bit thick as well.
We're all like that. Defending what we believe in is part of our human nature. Everyone does it.

[–]Lots42 0 points1 point ago

Because some straight people are black.

[–]thepartyandafter 0 points1 point ago

I've always thought this, I mean "Hey, it's wrong to teach hate to people of a certain skin color but anyone with a different sexual preference should be hated without question"

[–]Tlingit_Raven 0 points1 point ago

Because those who do this view homosexuality as a choice and so see if as similar to teaching children to dislike say, thieves.

I don't see how this is hard to grasp. I mean it isn't right, but it is straightforward enough (while also idiotic).

[–]XDME 0 points1 point ago

"you don't choose the colour of your skin but being gay is a choice and a sin"-people who do this

[–]rico_inferno 0 points1 point ago

Because they think it's a choice to be gay, but not to be black. Even though if it was a choice, it's not hurting anyone.

[–]mr_jrt 0 points1 point ago

Because it's "in the Bible", and there's not enough incentive for them to think outside that small box and think about right and wrong for themselves.

[–]Jrodkin 0 points1 point ago

For that matter, why are we not okay with white supremacists teaching their kids to be racist, but seem indifferent about the racist parents themselves?

[–]KafkaFish 0 points1 point ago

Why is it that people cant seem to put the 's' on the ends of words that end in '-ist' when making them plural?

It's not just typos. I see this all the time!

[–]Im1ToThe337 0 points1 point ago

cuz

[–]pirate_chef 0 points1 point ago

According to Christians, they don't hate gay people, just gay activities.

[–]Kinnison 0 points1 point ago

Because logic doesn't exist in the outside world. :\

[–]theoriginalbrick 0 points1 point ago

Blacks were slaves in the ol' days and they had their whole civil rights movement and all that bullshit. Gays were generally disliked during the ol' days, and that movement is taking place right now. It's as simple as that.

[–]IonBeam2 0 points1 point ago

Maybe most religious people don't teach their kids to hate gays, and maybe just assuming your opposition is just plain evil is counterproductive.

[–]CharlesDingus 0 points1 point ago

That's a huge generalization, a lot of people do care. Do you live in some fantasy world where "it's not okay for people to indoctrinate their kids to hate others" is an unpopular opinion?

[–]greenfarmer 0 points1 point ago

Or black parents to teach there kids to hate whites...

[–]__Demosthenes__ 0 points1 point ago

Because reasons

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Gay black man reporting in. Your hate literally makes me stronger.

Like I am so strong right now

[–]AndrewNicla 0 points1 point ago

You shouldn't generalize all Christians are Anti-Gay. Lutherans for example (not missouri lutheran, but the ELCA) welcome anyone into their church. I appreciate your concern but not all Christians hate gays.

[–]jamesdavid80 0 points1 point ago

they dont teach to 'hate', they teach that its wrong, probably a reference to christianity, (go figure...) , in the book of Leviticus it teaches and says for a man to lay with another man is detestable (old testament/ also scribes of that time period were "Men") some pastors these days though teach or subliminally teach that christs forgiveness cleans them of that and accept 'homosexuals' in the church. I 'WISH' people did more teaching against RACISM!!!

[–]ativa 0 points1 point ago

and how come it's okay for blacks to teach their kids to hate whites?

[–]MRukkus 0 points1 point ago

people don't think it's okay...

[–]SunshineBlind 0 points1 point ago

Because we as a species clearly has lightyears to go until we get our shit together. Hopefully we'll manage long enough to get there.

[–]Chaleidescope 0 points1 point ago

Unfortunately in some states, discriminating against one is illegal, and the other is not. This says a whole lot about the social ideas regarding the two in different parts of the country.

[–]C_sharp_minor 0 points1 point ago

Because fundies see being gay as a choice.

[–]bangupjobasusual 0 points1 point ago

Because, what, all niggers are faggots? What are you, Trent Lott?

Risky inside joke, let's see who gets it

[–]Triassic_Bark 0 points1 point ago

Because: Hypocrisy!

[–]Bionic88 0 points1 point ago

Oh I see... its always about white people huh? No black supremacists.. right ok

[–]Dmoneater 0 points1 point ago

Because Jesus.

[–]Renegade917 0 points1 point ago

What? Most people care about this. Everyone I've ever know in my entire life would care about this o_o

[–]yes_thats_right 0 points1 point ago

It's a good thing that there are no homophobes who don't believe in god.

[–]DeepRoot 0 points1 point ago

I think it's b/c the teacher of hate and the religious people are the same in a lot of cases. You ever notice the crosses and such associated w/ the KKK?

[–]rightladies 0 points1 point ago

people reply seriously to these questions? i came up with "because they happened to be gay white supremacists" but then i read the thread. i apologize for the smart humor.

[–]timo103 0 points1 point ago

Because silly, blacks are people*, gays are the spawn of the devil.

*subject to debate.

[–]DefinitelyRelephant 0 points1 point ago

But, being black isn't a choice!

/creationist/Republican answer

[–]rufud 0 points1 point ago

white supremacy in america (KKK) was not originally principally religious based, not in the same way that the christians of today are anti-lgbt. christians did use the bible to justify slavery, but the really hard core white supremicists were not a "religious group."

[–]takatori 0 points1 point ago

What? We do care.

[–]DunKair 0 points1 point ago

Clearly many Atheists care.

[–]spacecase89 0 points1 point ago

Or atheists, for that matter

[–]skibblez_n_zits 0 points1 point ago

Because in their mind being gay is a choice, whereas skin color is not.

[–]dasoktopus 0 points1 point ago

White SupremacistS

I'm sorry but that bothers me so much.

[–]jamesdavid80 0 points1 point ago

Either sided mentality teaching such as this; is probably a good reason as to why Extraterrestials do not make openly public lodgings here on earth.

[–]Rieklin 0 points1 point ago

We do care.

[–]praisecarcinoma 0 points1 point ago

I think the better analogy would be either, 1) should religious people not teach their kids to hate atheists, or 2) should straight people not teach their kids to hate gays. Upvote either ways.

[–]thejam15 0 points1 point ago

ahh, i've grown up in a christian family, and am a christian myself. My father has taught me that there is no reason to hate anyone, reguardless of their position or viewpoint. We frown upon people doing thing similar to forcing views and such. Hell, just because you "sin" constantly dosent mean the church will reject you, or if you just belive that church is not for you then thats what you're allowed to belive. The people who think otherwise are sadly mistaken and that group may want to take a step back and look at how ridiculous they look trying to force views on others. The reason I note this is because everytime I see a quote like this I feel quite assaulted to be thought to do such acts on other, and our church, and I do not wish to be categorized with the people that give us a bad name.

Forgive me for spelling errors, I typed this on a phone.

[–]ibzzi 0 points1 point ago

because black's have a high population in america now.. gay's are still a minority that can't really hurt anyone.. fuck what the minorities want right?

[–]DAL03 0 points1 point ago

Agreed

[–]JCofNazareth 0 points1 point ago

Eh, give it a couple of generations.

[–]Leaches-n-Creame 0 points1 point ago

This is probably the worst image macro I've seen on r/atheism. No amount of thought or nuance has been poured into this.

[–]mbritt74 0 points1 point ago

People do think it's wrong, just less people.

[–]dblmjr_loser 0 points1 point ago

People do care and it is wrong. So what do you expect people to bust into their fundie neighbor's houses and show em how to raise their kids? This is fucking stupid and so is OP.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

because capitalism

[–]Rephaite 0 points1 point ago

There is a fairly important unspoken premise, here.

People who think it is wrong to hate blacks think that it is wrong to teach children to hate blacks. I would hazard that most people who think it is okay to teach hatred of gays have their own hatred of gays.

[–]noparnel 0 points1 point ago

They hate the sin not the sinner remember?

[–]manray23 0 points1 point ago

Im christian and im not against gay people, i dont judge anyone if you were a true christian you would realize that the bible says to treat everyone as you want to be treated and to never judge, they are just hypocrites

[–]All_Up_In_This_Jerk 0 points1 point ago

You're saying that being religious and being a gay-hater are mutually exclusive. While you're definitely a racist if you're part of one of the many white supremacist organizations, it's a logical leap to say that you'll be predisposed to hating gays if you're a Christian; they don't all go down that path (I'm looking at you, Unitarian Church). In any case, you should blame the parents first and foremost.

[–]Pewkie 0 points1 point ago

I are good at using memes.

[–]WonkaKnowsBest 0 points1 point ago

Except 99% of religious people don't teach their children to hate gays. More pathetic attempts. Just like SOME people teach white supremacy, a small percentage teach to hate gays.

[–]tikcuf12 1 point2 points ago

The fact that ANY do is the problem, nitwit.

[–]WonkaKnowsBest 0 points1 point ago

If they don't tell you how to govern their lives, you shouldn't tell them. People constantly complain about that, don't they?

[–]AngelaAnaconda2012 1 point2 points ago

And yet that dumb law in NC passed. This is learned behaviour with it's cultural roots in religion. Just because they aren't staight out saying ' Yes kids, it's OK to hate gays' doesn't mean they aren't teaching it. The way they choose to interpret the bible indirectly leads to hatered. It's the' God hates gays so it's OK to hate gays' mentality. There are plenty, plenty of people that at least disapprove of gays based on reasons rooted in religion. If dissapproving is all the are doing then it wouldn't be so bad but these people are voting and actively trying to limit the rights of gay people, and they are teaching their children to do the same. If this wasn't such a big deal as we atheist are making it seem, gay marriage would be legal in the entire US. Actively trying to crush someones human rights when they aren't hurting anyone is a form of hate in my book.

[–]holotone 0 points1 point ago

The bible is very clear about homosexuality...