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107
108

children, assume the firm, spread-eagle position (imgur.com)

submitted ago by UnderneathAlice

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[–]deruch 13 points14 points ago

As an EMT, we use these for immobilizing smaller children after trauma. These are actually way more comfortable than the long boards we use for adults. Plus, having something to hold an arm still in the extended position helps for starting IVs. These are not designed to be used for behavior control or punishing children. Nor are they designed to calm them down. They enable EMERGENCY medical personnel to effectively treat small young patients despite their panic and sometimes inability to understand the need to remain still. Attempting to lessen that panic is an important part of treating all patients, but will be secondary to life saving treatment.

[–]puttyguy 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, when I was 5 they used something similar when I ran into table just at the right height and bit the bottom right side of my lip off.

[–]Irrelephantless 0 points1 point ago

Had to put my daughter in one of these to suture her lip...it was very much needed.

[–]incubusofury 12 points13 points ago

My three year old had to be restrained in this for a cavity. I would rather him be restrained than move around and doctor miss :( You pick and choose your battles.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points ago

You know, it used to be illegal to do that (changed some time in the late 80s). Before that, we all went to the dentist and were fine.

I'm sorry your kid's dentist sucks.

[–]baracudaboy 3 points4 points ago

It dosen't matter how good a dentist is, if you kidding is flipping the fuck out you'll HAVE to strap then down.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points ago

That is simply not true, and I'm very sorry that you think that.

[–]Imyourfearlessleader 0 points1 point ago

As a dentist I have to say that you are wrong. Papoose boards are much needed and sometimes the only way to keep a kid from hurting him or herself while been treated

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

I know for a fact that you do not speak for all currently working pediatric dentists.

[–]baracudaboy 0 points1 point ago

So what are you going to do when your child is flailing and kicking and screaming at you? Are you just gonna give up and not take him to the dentist or what?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

I kicked and flailed, my mother took me anyhow, to a pediatric dentist who was able to calm me down every time, and in fact he was somewhat recommended for unruly children.

But it was a different time, I suppose. A profound laziness has descended over every side of the equation, and people just arent willing to go that extra mile anymore on either side.

[–]LazyHazy -3 points-2 points ago

Or, yanno, be a good parent and not raise a little shit that flails and spits and screams at you.

[–]baracudaboy 3 points4 points ago

You don't have any children do you?

[–]LazyHazy -2 points-1 points ago

Can't say I do. Though, I've had a lot of experience with children, and I was one myself. I never acted like you described, honestly. I'm not just saying that. Same goes for my sister and cousins. And I went to the dentist/doctor a decent amount as a child.

I'm completely serious. There are PLENTY of instances where kids are perfectly fine in situations like this, and the majority of the time it's a result of their parenting.

[–]baracudaboy 2 points3 points ago

Except your wrong, my mother raised me to know that I couldn't disobey her or I'd get punished (time outs, groundings, all that) but when I went to the dentist I was incredibly sure that I'd rather have stabbed and killed that dude then let him poke around in my mouth with sharp metal things. I bit him, spit at him, and screamed as long and loud as I could, if they hadn't strapped me down I would have never gotten my teeth worked on. It doesn't matter how good you raise your child, nothing cures how fucking terrifying the dentist is when your 6 years old.

[–]LazyHazy -2 points-1 points ago

Well, maybe you're just a weenie or something. I never had a problem with dentists. My dentist was a great guy, I was scared at first for sure, but after reassurance from my mother and him, I was fine. No problems. Same thing when my sister had to go to the dentist. (Different guy I might add.).

I'm not even trying to argue this anymore, we have to just agree to disagree. I suppose there are a lot of different types of kids.

[–]ecclectic 21 points22 points ago

Until you've seen a 1-2 year old need X-Rays, you'll never really understand the need for something like this.

[–]Bl1ndz 7 points8 points ago

I might buy one of these for my roommates. Next time he passes out, hes getting strapped in, and i'm tying him to a lamp post.

[–]Iainfixie 1 point2 points ago

Be sure to post pictures.

[–]hawksterdh 0 points1 point ago

For science.

[–]Spit_on_me 7 points8 points ago

When you've seen a seriously injured young child freaking out in the back of an ambulance, this makes perfect sense.

[–]gonnaburnthem 8 points9 points ago

This is most likely for non-verbal autistic children. My stepmom always had a bunch of this kind of thing for my super autistic stepbrother. My favorite was the 3 foot tall bright-blue squishy tube that was a chair. Feeling empty space under his ass when he sat down was supposed to calm him. It quickly became a tunnel for us.

[–]Girolmao 4 points5 points ago

Kidnapping just got easier.

[–]jedireign 2 points3 points ago

I was put in one of these when I needed stitches on my chin at 4-5 years old.

.... I'm 27 now and remember it DISTINCTLY. I was terrified.

[–]evielynn 2 points3 points ago

Makes them easier to mount on a wall.

[–]Duthos 2 points3 points ago

People who think this is a good idea are likely in need of a lobotomy.

[–]dorky2 0 points1 point ago

Or maybe they just have experiences you don't have.

[–]Duthos 0 points1 point ago

Which can be removed with the lobotomy I recommended.

[–]dorky2 0 points1 point ago

Problem solved!

[–]Duthos 0 points1 point ago

My line of thinking. Of course, why solve a problem, when you can make and sell merchandise for it?

(hence the lack of solutions and excess of problems in modern society)

[–]bugbug312 0 points1 point ago

Restraints such as this are only used in emergency medical situations that require it (e.g. a child in a serious car wreck with a spinal injury). It isn't used for simple behavioral issues to my knowledge.

Source: While I don't work as one, I have an EMT certification.

[–]Duthos 0 points1 point ago

I fail to see the advantage of this design over the standard backboard. If a child needs to be restrained to this extent wouldn't an anesthetic be easier, simpler, safer, more humane and easier to stock?

[–]bugbug312 0 points1 point ago

I see your point. Just from an emergency standpoint, EMT-B's aren't authorized to give anesthetic. They can only give certain drugs (aspirin, glucose, nitro if it's the patient's own medication, and activated charcoal). In fact, I'm not sure if EMT-I's or Paramedics can do that.

As far as over a standard backboard? I'm not really sure the advantage here. It might be more comfortable? It looks like it would give more support to a smaller child. Folded up it looks like it might be smaller to store.

I'm not really sure how much of an advantage really. I was just saying that's what it looks like it's used for :) I've personally never heard of any teachers using it to restrain kids, special needs or not.

[–]Duthos 0 points1 point ago

Bah, never mind the kid restraint up top. Devices are never a problem until they are used, and I have never heard of such a device being used to restrain a misbehaving child either.

But the lack of EMT options... that I find discouraging. Do you think it would be hard to open a dialogue for keeping something on hand to knock people out if the need arises? I know that if I am ever brought to the hospital with various organs and appendages misplaced I would rather not be conscious for the duration, and would sure as fuck want something stronger than an aspirin at the very least.

[–]bugbug312 0 points1 point ago

Well, the aspirin is only for an AMI and not for pain :p As far as an EMT-B goes, they can give you some ice, but that's about it. However, I'm pretty sure that most EMT teams (seriously a guess with no backup at all) have at least one Intermediate or Paramedic. The problem with pain medication is that once you get to the hospital you still need to be able to rate your pain, so I'm 75% positive that they can't give you pain medication. As far as knocking patients out, I'm 99% sure that they cannot do that. Physically violent paitents are just strapped down and/or restrained in other ways. Also, I can only speak for what I heard in the state of Virginia, this might vary from state to state.

Edit: Changed my figure since I'm really not sure about that pain medication. I don't think they can but rethinking it, I'm really not sure.

[–]Duthos 0 points1 point ago

That seems insane. Although my question had been on how hard it might be open a dialog on changing this.

Being able to rate pain isn't worth squat, in my estimation. Everyone's scales are different, the measurement is completely subjective, and would convey very little information to the docs.

Shouldn't the comfort of the patient be secondary only to their health? And if so, wouldn't it be possible to find some means of granting the former to those in agony without compromising the latter?

[–]bugbug312 0 points1 point ago

Sorry, I forgot to answer that part. I honestly don't know. I guess you could look into your state's policy (just assuming you're from the US, because I have no clue at all about other countries) and ask around? I've never really thought about that before.

I agree with you on that. Obviously someone with a fractured femur is going to be shouting in pain while someone with a sprained elbow might only be like "It hurts when I move it like this." Pain/feeling could also indicate nerve damage and further caused damage, which is extremely important at the hospital. If you were only like "Ow" and now you're like "OH GOD IT HURTS, WHY!?," that's a good sign that something went wrong. Also, I'm still not entirely sure if Intermediates or Paramedics can't give pain medication.

With this, you also have to consider that an ambulance isn't a controlled environment. If the shit hits the fan for some reason (maybe you're allergic to the medication, or, god forbid, the wrong dosage is given for some reason) they might not have the equipment needed to reverse the mistake. It could potentially bring a simple laceration into respiratory arrest. You also have to consider that an ambulance is basically transport service. If you don't need to go to a specialized hospital and you live within 15 minutes of a hospital with emergency services, the process isn't exactly hours long. As soon as the ER takes over they may or may not give you the pain medication at their discretion.

Also, please take everything I say with a grain of salt. I haven't been in class for a year now and I'm not working as an EMT. I'm definitely not giving medical advice, and generally trying to speak speculatively. EMS policies also vary from state to state.

[–]Duthos 0 points1 point ago

Canada, actually, but I am finding it harder and harder to find differences between the two countries. Aside from my inability to legally defend myself from someone with a gun, and my ability to be patched up for free afterwards if I survive.

You make sense, and are quite correct about the purposes of an ambulance, as well as the limitations and hazards of the same. I have often been called an idealist, but I consider myself a realist, and don't see a conflict anyway.

After all, we humans have the capacity to make our reality ideal.

[–]bugbug312 0 points1 point ago

Indeed. I am actually really jealous of that free healthcare. The hospital business here is more a real money making business every day. There are some hospitals that will treat you for free if you can't pay, or work with you on a reduced payment, but they're far and few between. Most require a form of payment before treatment is started unless it's a life threatening emergency.

I wish more could be done in an ambulance. Once you get down to it though, they're really just big pick up trucks with a metal box on the back (or a really big van) full of stuff.

The technology might be available one day, who knows? I have heard of some type of special ambulance/moving hospital that delicate procedures, like heart or brain surgery, can be performed in while moving. They certainly aren't common though and definitely are not cheap. But they are useful if you're either really rich or really important and need help immediately.

[–]ret9ec 6 points7 points ago

as if the kid isn't scared enough, you gotta scar him for life and strap him into that thing

[–]rockington 6 points7 points ago

They used these at my elementary school for when the mentally handicapped students got triggered into a rage fit. The one I witnessed in particular was a kid that if he heard people counting down, he would go apeshit and start throwing chairs. As a 10 year old it was scary watching teachers tackle this kid to the ground and start strapping him in while other teachers are telling us just to ignore it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

In some cases things called weighted blankets are very helpful for children with autism. It helps them calm down. Straps are less common but may be needed to get the kids into a safe place, especially in inclusion schools.

Source: I work with children with special needs

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

If your elementary school was in the US, it broke federal regulations for the application of a prescription only mechanical restraint device. It could have been shut down for that.

Too many parents know far, far too little.

[–]dorky2 1 point2 points ago

There are situations in the US where schools can use mechanical restraint devices I believe. Only where their users are certified and the student's IEP specifies it.

[–]ret9ec 0 points1 point ago

ok that makes alot more sense then

[–]joyfield -1 points0 points ago

"-STOP RESISTING POWPOW STOP RESISTING!!!"

[–]Jrspike 1 point2 points ago

holy sh*t! I was wrapped in one of these once when i was a kid. I had to get stitches on my eyebrow and i was freaking out, so they wrapped me up in one of those weird burrito things and had my dad hold me down while the doctor shined this crazy bright light in my eye and shoved needles in my forehead. According to my brother you could hear me screaming throughout the whole building.

[–]HighFiveYourFace 0 points1 point ago

Me too! Stitches are bad when you can't really look away. My sister pushed me into the corner of the TV while playing tag in the house. I still have the scar in my eyebrow.

[–]BloodyDecks45 1 point2 points ago

Ya, when I was about 4 or 5 i almost cut the tip of my finger off. The doc had to use one of these to give me stitches and to be honest being strapped down was way worse then the stitches themselves...

[–]LeslieVernon 1 point2 points ago

Correct me if im wrong, but ive always been taught spread eagle with my legs as far apart as possible and nice and loose. As pastor Mike always said "If the legs are tight, they aint right"

[–]izzaa 0 points1 point ago

When I was like four or five they used these on me at the dentist.

[–]Mostfoul 0 points1 point ago

Need one of those for my cabin.

[–]tricky3737 0 points1 point ago

My 11 month old had to get stitches in his eyebrow after tripping while learning to walk, if that's what it took to steady him I was ok with it. He had issues for months after, freaking out if he couldn't move though.

[–]Papasaurus 0 points1 point ago

Is that Jonathan Lipnicki?

[–]mrmadagascar 0 points1 point ago

Being strapped down into one of these is one of the earliest memories I have...I did NOT like shots

[–]jasontuegreat 0 points1 point ago

A must have for a true cristians son

[–]Sepulchural 0 points1 point ago

So this is in lieu of hiring a babysitter?

[–]baracudaboy 0 points1 point ago

I had to be out in one of these when they were extracting teeth from me as a child. Not fun.

[–]littleln 0 points1 point ago

The doc had to put my two year old in this for an ear exam. It was really awful. Very hard to watch. She was terrified to start with, the "papoose" didn't help...

[–]DNAK1llA 0 points1 point ago

jesus christ, help these children

[–]s1l1c0n3 0 points1 point ago

Technically, not spread eagle. It's (according to Soundgarden anyways) a Jesus Christ Pose http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14r7y6rM6zA

[–]Lillipout 0 points1 point ago

The description refers to an optional configuration of the restraint which is not pictured.

[–]SheriffBart42 0 points1 point ago

Beat me to it...

[–]beanielove -1 points0 points ago

Right, because when I am scared, nothing calms me down like being restrained. That's why, when I go to the movie theater to watch a horror flick, my friends bring a straitjacket for me just in case.

[–]clonn -1 points0 points ago

It's in the Bible.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

Kids acting up? Crucify them!

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