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Are we atheists not justified in despising religion when it causes things like this to happen? (i.minus.com)
submitted 4 months ago by Brushstroke
[–]Europoor 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
I don't even want to think about how many times this has been reposted.
In any case, why despise when you can simply ignore and avoid? Hate doesn't need to be brought into this.
[–]Brushstroke[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Ignoring it and avoiding it, essentially turning a blind eye to it, isn't going to stop the atrocities it obviously causes. Are you proposing that we should not speak out against this violence and hatred?
[–]Europoor 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Fair enough, 'ignore' was probably the wrong term here. But why respond to hate with hate? Hate will not make something go away any more than if you approach it in a calm, rational manner, and the latter has the advantage of not increasing blood pressure for everyone involved.
[–]Brushstroke[S] -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago
You're right, but an important distinction needs to be made. Where is my hate being directed? Not towards people, but towards ideas and concepts that inspire good people to do horrible things. My loathing of an idea or belief such as religion doesn't inspire me to cause harm to others either directly or indirectly. Where is their hate being directed? Towards other people, inspiring violence, insults, injury and death to others.
Some beliefs and ideas deserve no respect.
[–]Jilly33 -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago
You are absolutely right. I refuse to ignore these things. I refuse to allow it to continue in my presence and I refuse to allow ignorance of it to continue. If you want to ignore what is going on in the world than that is fine, but I will not. So if you don't want to learn about it than don't be around me, don't FB "friend" me and don't talk to me because eventually, I will bring it up. Thanks again for this post!
[–]MFchimichanga 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Yeah. But we do have to remember it's not always the religion, but the ignorant people who use it as a weapon of sorts to spew hate and other nasty things.
But we also have to remember that it is their religious views that make them ignorant to begin with and which inspire such horrible things.
[–]ashman6453 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I have found that ignorant people, hateful people, destructive people, stupid people, and just in general people you do not want to associate with, are all of these things regardless of religion. We all know the crusades were orchestrated by corrupt church officials, but in the name of no religion look at communists and other such revolutionaries, just as corrupt but without religion. It is ignorant and stupid to suggest that religion is the cause of catastrophe when in the end it is humans who caused it.
[–]Carbon_Dirt 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
But it's gotten to the point where religion is allowed by society to be an excuse for people to spread their hatred.
Take people like Fred Phelps, Sean Harris, Charles Worley, or others like them. When they try to spread their beliefs, most people perceive it as "Well I don't really agree with that... but they're trying to do right by their religion, so it's not really that bad, is it?" When the proper response should be "Why is that person allowed to speak in public, when he's inciting people to commit hate crimes?"
You're right, that humans do bad things and just use religion as a cover for it. But when society lets them use it as a cover, when society says "Oh darn, they're using religion to defend themselves, now I seem like a jerk if I respond badly, I should just not say anything."- THAT is where religion itself is a bad thing, when it lends itself more to being an excuse for doing bad than a motivation to do good.
It's not necessarily about the fact that humans cause these things to happen. No one is disputing that. It's about what inspires them to cause these things to happen. In this case, religion is clearly the culprit. And now, as Carbon_Dirt has already stated, religion is allowed by society to be an excuse. It's disgusting.
About your mention of communist regimes and "other such revolutionaries" (whoever these may be...?), there is no evidence that their brutality was the result of their atheism rather than the result of political motivations. And here's a little lesson in logic for you: saying, "Look at what horrible things [group A, which in this case is atheism] has done too!" doesn't excuse group B, which in this case is religion. And if you want to talk numbers, then by far religion has been the inspiration for more atrocities than atheism ever has.
[–]Dirst 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
I didn't know about half of these things happening. I was going to read through it all, but I literally could not contain all the disappointment in humanity about halfway through, so I stopped.
[–]elbruce 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Their response: "but you're annoying."
[–]retix 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
I'm gonna do what most christians seem to do:
tl;dr
[–]SaintGenesius 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
You know, I like this image as much as the next guy, but damn if 2 days isn't too soon to see it again.
This is a wonderful compilation of information. (yeah I know it rhymes :) ) I am definately saving this and using it the next time I get the "Why are you an atheist?" question on FB. I get it alot so I'm sure it won't be too long before I get to use this. Thank you!! :)
You're welcome! :)
[–]Amryxx -1 points0 points1 point 4 months ago
Am I justified to hate Americans for all the things their government does abroad?
If the answer is "yes", then we'll have to agree to disagree.
If the answer is "no", then you're a bloody hypocrite. And probably immoral too, since I highly doubt that "guilt by association" is an ethical form of belief.
[–]Brushstroke[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Have I said anything about hating people? No. Hating/despising a belief, idea or concept is not the same as hating/despising people who hold that belief, idea or concept.
[–]Amryxx 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
And what are the consequences of hating a belief, idea or concept? And how culpable are the said belief, idea or concept when it comes to assigning blame? Elaboration as follows:
Are you just going to sit there, think, "oh, religion is evil", and then continue on like nothing happens? If "yes", then by all means do continue. In fact, you don't need any justification if you don't want to do anything - everyone has the freedom of thought.
Or are you going to fight injustice brought by the belief, idea or concept? In that case, you're not going to gain co-operation of the believers who do symphatize and agree with you by attacking something they cherish. Imagine saying, "I hate Islam and Islamic terrorism - let us do something about the latter". Do you think your average non-terrorist Muslim would want to get onboard with your crusade? This of course applies to any belief system and atrocity - "Christians" and "gay marriage", or "communists" and "totalitarianism", or "Americans" and "American foreign policy".
On the subject of culpability, would atrocities cease to happen without religion? You might say "religion makes things easier", but so does gunpowder - so are we also going to despise modern chemistry?
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[–]Europoor 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]Brushstroke[S] 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]Europoor 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Brushstroke[S] -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]Jilly33 -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]MFchimichanga 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Brushstroke[S] -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]ashman6453 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]Carbon_Dirt 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Brushstroke[S] -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]Dirst 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]elbruce 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]retix 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]SaintGenesius 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Jilly33 -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]Brushstroke[S] -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]Amryxx -1 points0 points1 point ago
[–]Brushstroke[S] 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Amryxx 0 points1 point2 points ago