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all 101 comments

[–]JermtehWorm 8 points9 points ago

Nice repost. :) Still good though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

its pretty well written.

[–]DrHeinous 0 points1 point ago

i just realized this is why religion wants people to have a lot of kids so that they can get them young before they gain common sense. wow....

[–]Senuf 20 points21 points ago

“Now that you mention it, let’s see. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are a bunch of practical jokers who meet somewhere and decide to have a contest. They invent a character, agree on a few basic facts, and then each one’s free to take it and run with it. At the end, they’ll see who’s done the best job. The four stories are picked up by some friends who act as critics: Matthew is fairly realistic, but insists on that Messiah business too much; Mark isn’t bad, just a little sloppy; Luke is elegant, no denying that; and John takes the philosophy a little too far. Actually, though, the books have an appeal, they circulate, and when the four realize what’s happening, it’s too late. Paul has already met Jesus on the road to Damascus, Pliny begins his investigation ordered by the worried emperor, and a legion of apocryphal writers pretends also to know plenty...Toi, apo-cryphe lecteur, mon semblable, mon frere. It all goes to Peter’s head; he takes himself seriously. John threatens to tell the truth, Peter and Paul have him chained up on the island of Patmos. Soon the poor man is seeing things: Help, there are locusts all over my bed, make those trumpets stop, where’s all this blood coming from? The others say he’s drunk, or maybe it’s arteriosclerosis...Who knows, maybe it really happened that way.”


("Foucault's Pendulum" - Umberto Eco)


PS: Yes, I know, a GREAT book.

[–]iggnore[S] 3 points4 points ago

definitely going to check that one out

[–]Senuf 2 points3 points ago

It's not all about this. AAMOF this paragraph is almost all that there's about it in the book. In any case, it's an ABSOLUTELY great book, and i'm sure you'll enjoy it. Despite being long, I read it many times (no less than three) already.

[–]muuh-gnu 2 points3 points ago

They invent a character

The character existed before they wrote about him. They enhanced the character.

agree on a few basic facts

No, they probably didnt know each other, but in the span of several decades, copied from another and subsequently changed and enhanced the story.

If i take your story, add a saying here, a miracle there, this does not imply that we "aggreed" on something, but that I took your story and fanfictioned it. And so did you with somebody else's story.

The four stories are picked up

There were many more than 4, the 4 are just famous because a few hundreds of years later, they were picked into the bible.

Paul has already met Jesus on the road to Damascus

Paul met Jesus before the gospels existed. Decades before the gospels existed.

[–]aciretose 5 points6 points ago

Dude... You can't just assume you're right and he's wrong when we're talking about 2000 year old people who lived in a pretty poorly documented world. For all we know he didn't exist and was made up. Or he could be real and, like you said, enhanced. But you can't be sure which, there isn't nearly enough proof to make a "correction" like that.

[–]Kiggleson 1 point2 points ago

Very true, considering the bible is probably where he's getting this information. Begging the question?

[–]muuh-gnu 0 points1 point ago

From the information contained in the gospels, it is possible to roughly date the gospels, they were all created over the course of several decades by anonymous authors writing in different places of the roman empire. It is very improbable that they sat together and "agreed" on a story, rather they were simply copying each other and fanfiction-like continuing the story.

Begging the question?

No, but the Bible is nevertheless a source of information. Maybe not of information about Jesus, but of information about the evolution of the Bible itself.

[–]scratag 0 points1 point ago

Do you have a concise reference for dating the gospels. I'd like to have something like that when visiting with family.

[–]muuh-gnu 1 point2 points ago

Or he could be real and, like you said, enhanced.

I didnt say that he was real. The character existed, not necessarily the person. Then over the span of decades to centuries, the character and the story around it was enhanced (aka evolved, oh the irony) in a process known as midrash.

[–]Senuf 1 point2 points ago

Yup, great.

I was just quoting a paragraph in Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum" because it's relevant to the post. And we all know (don't we?) that said book is a work of fiction, and as such is to be taken, despite the chance that some might agree with one or two or every point in the paragraph at hand.

You're correcting a paragraph in a work of fiction. It's like correcting some book by Harry Turtledove, who often writes about historical characters in his works of fiction.

In any case, you might try and write a letter to Umberto Eco. I'm sure he can make the suitable corrections for the book's next edition.

[–]Senuf 0 points1 point ago

The four stories are picked up

There were many more than 4, the 4 are just famous because a few hundreds of years later, they were picked into the bible.

Nope. The four weren't just "picked up". It's just that the rest were discarded, especially to avoid further contradictions (just imagine...), to avoid controversial issues such as:

  • evidence of sincretism
  • words that could say something not very close to praise to religious hierarchies
  • its whole apparatus and material posessions, etc.

Having The First Council of Nicaea at hand might be useful when discussing these issues.

Regards.

[–]turkeybiscuits 0 points1 point ago

Too bad there's no historical evidence that Jesus ever existed :(

[–]TheEnterprise1701 9 points10 points ago

You don't even have the courage to indicate this is a repost. No, no, no.

[–]iggnore[S] 3 points4 points ago

I had no idea until the third comment said it.. Not that easy to find duplicates of an image to check if it's a repost, and I hadn't seen it on here before. Sorry, man..

[–]Jin_Winspear 7 points8 points ago

For future reference

EDIT: For spelling because it's fucking dark in here

[–]iggnore[S] -1 points0 points ago

Oh, nice!.. TIL

[–]irawwwr 0 points1 point ago

...You have been here for 5 months and you haven't heard of karma decay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSTEqHxh3fI

[–]iggnore[S] 0 points1 point ago

haha.. nope.. honestly have never heard of it.. don't post a lot so haven't had to deal with it but it won't happen again now

[–]NerdTronJJ 1 point2 points ago

Hey I've been here 2 year and I just learned this thank to this post!

[–]alpackabackapacka 0 points1 point ago

Saving

[–]Bazinga121 0 points1 point ago

reference*

[–]say_no_to_butt_floss 0 points1 point ago

Thank you, TIL also

[–]TheEnterprise1701 1 point2 points ago

I absolve you from all your sins, son. Oh wait...

[–]hcmc_ironpig 2 points3 points ago

Are you, by any chance, Aroldis Chapman?

[–]PKMKII 1 point2 points ago

Please, he's obviously Sidd Finch.

[–]mybossthinksimworkng 2 points3 points ago

Two lines in and I didn't have to read any further because of the title. I think something like "The 150 mph fastball" would better serve something like this so the story pays off in the punchline rather than working towards a thesis you've already established in your title.

[–]DinoJr14 7 points8 points ago

This place has devolved into a tumblr page.

[–]The_Sign_Painter 2 points3 points ago

I couldn't agree more

-reposts to tumblr-

[–]TimeZarg 0 points1 point ago

Well played.

[–]DulcetFox 1 point2 points ago

My, what neat handwriting this person has. I'm really quite envious, you can read it and everything.

[–]NurseBetty 1 point2 points ago

"It was amazing, this mystic business. You tell them a lie, and then when you don't need it any more you tell them another lie and tell them they're progressing along the road to wisdom. Then instead of laughing they follow you even more, hoping that at the heart of all the lies they'll find the truth. And bit by bit they accept the unacceptable." - Guards! Guards! (1989) Terry Pratchett

[–]zelars 1 point2 points ago

Stopped reading at "cuz". Writing cuz is almost acceptable on a mobile phone, never, ever, on paper. My friend wrote "lol" in his essay for his final. This was 13 years ago. I remember thinking he is going to suck at life. He now has 3 children and works as a bartender illegally so that he doesnt have to pay alimony or taxes.

[–]Bloodshot025 0 points1 point ago

The plural of anecdote is not 'data'.

[–]BoatWizard 1 point2 points ago

False. A few generations from now we will all be super humans; we'll be capable of throwing fastballs well over 150mph. Nobody will care that you could do that.

Checkmate atheists.

[–]DeepFriedPanda 0 points1 point ago

Would it be fair to see we will "evolve" to be able to throw 150mph fastballs?

[–]BoatWizard 0 points1 point ago

No of course not. We would clearly improve ourselves through non-scientific technological advancement. Since science is clearly just a way to thwart God's plans.

[–]firecake 2 points3 points ago

Woah you can throw a 150 mph fastball? I need to tell my friends about this and write a storybook about you!

[–]All-American-Bot 5 points6 points ago

(For our friends outside the USA... 150 mph -> 241.4 km/h) - Yeehaw!

[–]Roarian 1 point2 points ago

Wow, such a specific number! It must be true!

<mutters about Usscher>

[–]Deathh 4 points5 points ago

Now put all that in a book so when someone eventually questions it they can just say, "It's in the book, it must be true!".

[–]CondescendingPrick 1 point2 points ago

Self posts don't get karma.

[–]534seeds 2 points3 points ago

*reposts

[–]CondescendingPrick 0 points1 point ago

Wrong. Reposts get dick tons of karma. What planet are you on?

[–]534seeds 0 points1 point ago

You sure are a CondescendingPrick now aren't you?

[–]selectyour -3 points-2 points ago

Hence his username.

[–]robbydb 1 point2 points ago

That's Sidd Finch

[–]cmd_iii 0 points1 point ago

Not quite. According to this, Finch could get up to a buck-sixty-eight.

[–]JmjFu 2 points3 points ago

This could easily have been a self-post.

[–]iggnore[S] 0 points1 point ago

I didn't write it though, I found it as an image.

[–]YoureMyBoyBloo 0 points1 point ago

I tried explaining something to this effect to a believer friend, and his response was, "Well then how come every one believes?"

The only thing that church every Sunday teaches you is how not to listen for content.

[–]yiliu 1 point2 points ago

Haha, I hate that. Whether it's the bible, or shit like "Don't swim after eating" or "carrots improve eyesight". Everybody's favorite go-to argument: "Everybody believes it, so it must be true!"

Often phrased as: "It's just common sense!" Arg.

[–]rathum2323 0 points1 point ago

You would need to torture people and threaten them with eternal torture if you need them to believe that you threw a 150 mph ball.

[–]Muttbrain 0 points1 point ago

Cave Johnson voice.

[–]rageus 0 points1 point ago

dumb

[–]aWildCactuar 0 points1 point ago

This would be outstanding, if it weren't a repost.

[–]Discere 0 points1 point ago

It reminds me of this experiment - Monkey\Banana experiment

[–]TechMeOut 0 points1 point ago

Clap clap

You made my day !

[–]FUCKYOUIamBatman 0 points1 point ago

Ha! This is refreshingly clever!

[–]The-Anti-Hero 1 point2 points ago

Meh, a bit of flawed logic in my realm.

First off, even stupid people would ask to see it. Something that amazing, you would have to see to believe. At least in the bible there were accounts of the things that had happened. Whether or not they were true is based on your ideals.

On top of that you can't compare a rumor to religion. The spread of religion would be much more immense compared to that of a simple rumor. Also I hate to be a dick, but I am really tired of seeing tactics like this to explain religion.

I have no sense of humor :L

[–]Kirbyoung 1 point2 points ago

It's just a metaphor, scaled down to something like a rumor about a 150 mph fastball to be an example for how religion is seen, by the writer, to be created. The main difference would be there were more people to corroborate what the religion claims to be true. But the belief of millions of people comes from a set of people that told other people, sometimes hundreds of thousands of miles away, that certain things happened at this one point. The intentions behind the creation of the religion is debatable, but the spread of said religion is fairly straight forward, some claiming something and others believing those claims without any proof besides the claims of the ones making the claim. I do fully understand why you would get tired of things like this though.

[–]muuh-gnu 1 point2 points ago

First off, even stupid people would ask to see it.

Not if an authority figure which cant be questioned claims it.

At least in the bible there were accounts of the things that had happened.

Accounts written by anonymous authors some 40-80 years later in a foreign language.

If 60 years after the speedball was allegedly thrown (in the US) somebody anonymously writes the story down in German, does this count as an "account"? And if some other German thinks "wunderbar story!" and adds a paragraph to it and passes it on, are these then two accounts?

On top of that you can't compare a rumor to religion.

You perfectly can.

[–]The-Anti-Hero 1 point2 points ago

I guess, but who is the authority figure in this story? I suppose you could relate it to a father, mother ,etc. However this would no where be as wide spread, and people would not be willing to put their life on it.

Whereas religion, people are willing to die over their cause. It is their belief, not some story passed through their family. Which you have still not touched on the sudden widespread of the religion. A story such as the ball, even if got widespread would quickly dissipate.

As for the authority figure, yes an authority figure could technically persuade them otherwise, but there is only so much you can push a person into a belief. They won't fight for a belief they know is a lie.

[–]Miskov 0 points1 point ago

It's not like history is majorly based on the Bible. I hear Rome didn't actually exist.

[–]9Flame 0 points1 point ago

This is very similar to an experiment that I read about in pysch class. A psychological experiment was done using monkeys. 7 were placed in a room with a single ladder. At the top of that ladder were some bananas. Whenever 1 monkey went to get the bananas the other 6 were drenched in water. After this happened enough times the group would proceed to beat the monkey that so much as approached the ladder (in fear of getting wet again). The researchers then swapped out one of the monkeys. First thing it did was go for the ladder and get beaten up by the others. He never went for it again once he realized the trend. This repeated until all 7 were swapped out. Next thing you know, they had a room of 7 monkeys, all very afraid to approach the ladder and get the bananas. None of them even know why. It was just how it was, and how it always has been as far as they knew.

[–]SkidmarkSteve -2 points-1 points ago

That's well-known bullshit that came from a business self-help book. Look it up.

[–]9Flame 2 points3 points ago

[–]Bafungoogoo 0 points1 point ago

Beautiful, sniff, simply beautiful ;)

[–]neilpeartismyhero 0 points1 point ago

"That's a Repost."

[–]yskoty 0 points1 point ago

No, that's not religion. That's rumor control.

Religion is when you believe that your 150 MPH fastball-throwing mythical dude is the ONE TRUE 150 MPH fastball-throwing dude, and you start to organize, and oppress, and kill in his Righteous Strike-Throwing Holiness's Name, Amen.

That's Religion.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

Annnnnnd thats exactly how the bible works.

[–]confusedcactus420 -5 points-4 points ago

OK WE FUCKING GET IT, YOU ARE AN ATHEIST, GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF, AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Sick of all these depressed retards on r/atheism thinking they're beating the system because they are rejecting religion, If you truly didn't give 2 fucks about religion, then you wouldn't spend all fucking day talking about it.

[–]GMNightmare 1 point2 points ago

OK WE GET IT, YOU HATE r/atheism, GET OVER YOURSELF, AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Sick of all these depressed retards on r/atheism thinking they're beating the system because they reject everybody, if you could think for two seconds you'd notice nobody said they didn't care about religion so making such a strawman arguments is nonsense... and if you really didn't care for these posts then you wouldn't spend all day posting that BS.

[–]skigre 0 points1 point ago

I agree with you to some extent; but at the same time you have to realise that religion get's thrown in your face every day. Regardless of where you are, it's there to greet you. Silence can be interpreted as submission, and some of us are happy to keep our beliefs, or lack there of, to ourselves. However, a large majority of people are not. I’ve lost friends and family over my view on religion, for nothing more than stating that their comments were offensive. It goes both ways.

[–]Jintek -1 points0 points ago

repost.

[–]TheMday 0 points1 point ago

wrote it down and took a pic for maximum karma

[–]ThisIsntLucifer 0 points1 point ago

Don't know why you got downvoted. It's true.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]TimeZarg 0 points1 point ago

Zomg, a Christian conservative! Quick, someone, throw a copy of 'On the Origin of Species' at him!

[–]Haggard213 -1 points0 points ago

Op is a faggot

[–]RedbrickMongo -4 points-3 points ago

i wish i could upvote this more

[–]Ambuvicious -2 points-1 points ago

Repost.

[–]danpan55 -3 points-2 points ago

fuck u, wasting my time. fuck u...bitch

[–]L1AM -1 points0 points ago

Am I the only one here that hopes that people won't be able to tell their kids that they knew a guy like that only 20 years later? The child would have to be old enough to understand what the parent is telling them for the story to be true, and so the kid would have to be born when the parent was 14/15 years old, best. Ewww

[–]fearachieved -1 points0 points ago

Is this repost supposed to somehow enlighten us? I'm pretty sure we all had that basic concept already.

Stories get blown out of proportion. People lie.

[–]Corpsman87 -5 points-4 points ago

F U C K R E L I G I O N

[–]ZenGalactic 0 points1 point ago

Don't stick your dick in crazy.

[–]Jin_Winspear 0 points1 point ago

Yes that would be why most of us are here.

[–]Corpsman87 -3 points-2 points ago

You sir..are correct! Plus I was going to go on a rant explaining my views..but then I thought..'fuck it'..here I am 0523 at work and all I can think about is breakfast and sleep..and maybe masturbating when I get home..so ..I summed it up into that

[–]madsociety -5 points-4 points ago

[–]iggnore[S] 0 points1 point ago

i see you got downvoted but the gif made me laugh.. take my upvote.

[–]madsociety 0 points1 point ago

i am unaffected by down voting my friend. but i will not iggnore your chivalry. thank you.

[–]knomz -2 points-1 points ago

saw this on tumblr before I saw it on reddit, first time for everything I guess.

[–]Hopepiggycanrun -4 points-3 points ago

I could shit on a paper and it would get up voted in this subreddit

[–]Hopepiggycanrun 0 points1 point ago

Then I'd go back and repost it for you fools to upvote me again!

[–]Jackamatack -2 points-1 points ago

RE-POST!