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Help Atheist Organizations! Voting is done: SSA: #47 with 4387 Votes FBB: #56 with 3162 Votes CC: #81 with 2248 Votes Thanks to all who voted! (full results)
Voting is done:
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CC: #81 with 2248 Votes
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The Ideal Government (imgur.com)
submitted 4 months ago by 357Magnum
[–]AmericanRover 475 points476 points477 points 4 months ago
Fuck yeah I want a robot body that would be awesome.
[–]dumnezero 137 points138 points139 points 4 months ago
high-pliers slap
[–]ecmmyers 139 points140 points141 points 4 months ago
The CLAMPS!
[–]MusikLehrer 20 points21 points22 points 4 months ago
I'm greasing up my whozits!
[–]dumnezero 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
clamps can have weirder (very different from hands ) shapes
[–]Tickle-Monster 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
you would think that if they have the technology to make you a robot, they would give you more than one point of articulation.
[–]SigmaMu 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
It's a government-issue robot. You want articulation, you gotta go private sector, man.
[–]MrBrawn 134 points135 points136 points 4 months ago
If I knew I get a robot body in heaven I would have had a whole different outlook on this Christianity thing. So long you godless heathens. Praise mekkaJesus.
[–]itshouldjustglide 59 points60 points61 points 4 months ago
All hail his steely countenance.
[–]Secretary_Not_Sure 59 points60 points61 points 4 months ago
Amen
[–]OgGorrilaKing 13 points14 points15 points 4 months ago
Japan?
[–]Secretary_Not_Sure 10 points11 points12 points 4 months ago
Yeah. Bandai toy from the '80s.
[–]njdss4 24 points25 points26 points 4 months ago
Oh Holy Light
[–]MrBarry 55 points56 points57 points 4 months ago
Go muslim. They pray toward mecha.
[–]Ze_Carioca 44 points45 points46 points 4 months ago
Would you put your brain into a robot's body?
[–]Zevaeros 43 points44 points45 points 4 months ago
If I have to be five foot nothing, Hesh can't be a tiger.
[–]ew73 30 points31 points32 points 4 months ago
Have fun on the robot reservation. We're not honoring those bogus treaties!
[–]misterpickles69 14 points15 points16 points 4 months ago
Well at least I have robot insurance.
[–]Thingsandalsostuff 17 points18 points19 points 4 months ago
Adrian Barbobot!
[–]TheArtNemesis 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
With pointy nipples.
[–]BargainTuesday 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
[–]mataeus43 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
With D cups full of Justice!
[–]chronoflect 14 points15 points16 points 4 months ago
Nah, I would transfer my consciousness to a synthetic brain that is faster and more capable, by slowly replacing each neuron with a synthetic analogue.
[–]Zuggible 9 points10 points11 points 4 months ago*
The truly scary thing is that there's no real difference between doing that, and creating a robotic replication of your brain, then killing yourself.
[–]russlo 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago
Nanobots that do the replacement for you, eating a piece of brain matter, analyzing it, and popping out a synthetic piece to replace it as soon as they do.
[–]Zuggible 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago*
For those downvoting, I would very much like to hear your thoughts.
Either way, you're slowly building a synthetic brain. What difference does it make if the construction occurs inside your skull or not?
Edit: Let me elaborate. For the sake of argument, assume suspended animation is possible. What's the difference between these two scenarios, given that the person is suspended in both?
Scenario 1: Replace one neuron at a time with a synthetic one.
Scenario 2: Destroy one neuron at a time, while simultaneously adding the corresponding neuron to a sythetic brain outside the body.
[–]russlo 7 points8 points9 points 4 months ago
It's about the time spent doing the construction, and possible data loss. If a single piece of information is lost, then yes, I'd agree, you've only created a simulacrum. If you can take measures to ensure no data loss, then ... what would be wrong with that? I'm not an expert, I just enjoy thoughts like this.
[–]Zuggible 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago
Also, are you saying there's no significant difference between the two scenarios I outlined?
[–]russlo 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
I'm not sure exactly why you're being downvoted, but I'll hazard a guess below.
I think yours is a pretty good question to be teased out, ya know? I believe you're asking "Wouldn't you just be making a robotic clone, and not an actual robotic self?"
So that's really a question of "what is self?" And I think it's possibly the source of your downvotes, because you're too close to asking about a "soul" on r/atheism for some. :-)
But under both of those scenarios that you outlined - robotic brain in human body, or robotic brain & body (possibly, more below) - you're still doing the copying one piece at a time, and if there's no loss of any data or data state whatsoever, and the destruction of the original is completed as well, then it's a perfect copy.
However, I can see your point, that it's still a copy - just like a file in a file system can be copied perfectly and still not have the same underlying file system data associated with the file, so too would the copied brain be such.
It's an interesting issue, because what if we could use the nanobots to upload our whole consciousness into a computer (again, with no data loss)? That second scenario you mentioned doesn't specify that the synthetic brain being built is in another body.
It also brings up a third issue which I think you forgot: what if the nanobots inspect the brain matter and the state of everything in it without destroying it - what if there was a machine that could do a scan of some sort to the brain and complete the same operation after the scan, with the nanobots just doing the replacement of the old cells? What then if they're not actually building the brain in the old body, but putting into a new body, or again, if the scan just goes directly into the computer. Have we just developed a perfect clone of your personality?
"If you guys are really us..."
Humor me... What if an alien ship floated above your house while you were asleep, employed such a scan on your brain, destroyed your house and everything in it after confirming your brain uploaded to their computer, and then they zoomed out into space and created you a new body, a new home, on some alien planet, tweaking your memory so that you thought you'd already lived there your whole life? Then you wake up from the wildest dream you've ever had, and go about your day on the alien planet.
Would you be aware of your other body's destruction? Would you still be you? Why would you have reason to care?
I guess it all really depends on what you define yourself as. What if the aliens came and beamed brain scans of everyone on the planet into their computer, destroyed this planet, and made us all wake up believing that we had all always had green skin color, matching the bodies they give us?
It certainly messes with your identity, but I freaking love the philosophical problems of science fiction like this.
[–]yoursweatersux 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Those are some pretty awesome questions to contemplate. And to take a crack at answering at least a portion of the issues you've raised...
Let's say somebody makes a perfect replica of you. Is that still you? Well the moment the "other you" becomes conscious and is viewing the world from a different perspective (literally, so much as simply standing in another physical location) causality begins to create a divergence between the real you and the "other you". As time elapses, this divergence will naturally grow, until the "other you" simply morphs it to someone you'd observe to be just extremely similar to you, but not you.
Observing the situation from that perspective, it becomes somewhat clear that if aliens were to replicate you and destroy you in doing so, the real "you" would cease to exist. Whereas in the other scenario you could gradually observe how the "other you" ultimately differed from yourself, in this scenario nobody would be able to compare/contrast the replica to the real you, and hence the difference wouldn't be obvious. But it would still exist.
Isn't there information lost by virtue of the fact that you're replacing the brain with something inherently different?
[–]PunishableOffence 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
You wouldn't download a brain...
[–]Qxzkjp 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
No. Go read a book on information theory.
[–]IConrad 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of me tearing apart the Ship of Theseus with my Grandfather's Axe.
[–]thoven 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
...yes.
[–]ToastmahGhost 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago
for science...
[–]AmericanRover 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
After my body dies yes.
[–]NeverStopPosting 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Not just my brain.
[–]kralrick 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I don't think they can just do a brain/penis transfer.
[–]TehNumbaT 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
as long as its a jewish robot
[–]dick_autographs 29 points30 points31 points 4 months ago
Didn't Dr Who teach us anything about putting ourselves into robot bodies?
[–]icouldhavehaditall 12 points13 points14 points 4 months ago
YOU ARE COMPATIBLE! YOU WILL BE UPGRADED!
[–]AlaskaYoungg 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
DELETE. DELETE. DELETE.
[–]ChilledCoffee 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
I think the badassery of Iron Man sure did.
[–]SilentExchange 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Iron Man has a robot suit. Very different.
[–]cdcdeltreec 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago
Robot Body!?!?!?!? Thanks OP! Your analogy showed me the light! I am now a Christian! Hallelujah!
[–]electriophile 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
Do the Bender! Do the Bender!
[–]iJeff 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I was thinking "awesome" until I got to the last frame.
[–]MAtheist_ 289 points290 points291 points 4 months ago
even worse, you are not just incinerated with the trash, you are aware of it
[–]357Magnum[S] 320 points321 points322 points 4 months ago
I tried to think of a better hell analogue when making this, but I couldn't imagine any dystopian government being quite that pointlessly cruel.
[–]TheyCallMeTomSawyer 145 points146 points147 points 4 months ago
I checked this out without realizing that it was r/atheism, so that last picture caught me completely off guard and it's the quickest I've ever saved a picture, well done.
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 4 months ago
This picture is going to be like The Beatles of atheist internet pictures.
[–]meriadocdog 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Bigger than Jesus?
[–]Rampant_Durandal 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago
Same here.
[–]MAtheist_ 52 points53 points54 points 4 months ago
True, and honestly it might have given away the ending too soon. Excellent job.
[–]Nizzo 27 points28 points29 points 4 months ago
I think in 1984 if you're caught by the Thought Police, they don't kill you until they've beaten and brainwashed you with the ways of the party. In other words, traitors aren't killed until they honestly agree with Big Brother. It's pretty pointless, and also pretty cruel.
[–]Vakinox 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
"Pointless and cruel you say? We'll see about THAT after this caged rat eats through your face!..."
Also, a better analogy for the hell situation would be once the dystopian government figured out about the crimes, they would put you over a low fire, one that didn't incinerate you immediately that way you stayed alive during the whole process, OR somehow kept you alive through a medical process, but still had the torture being applied during the medical procedure.
[–]yibgib 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
It wasn't pointless though. It was so when they killed someone that person could never be a martyr.
[–]reposter_guy 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
In Shusterman's Unwind they completely dissect your body and the law requires you be conscious and aware for as much of the process as you can.
[–]jarobat 7 points8 points9 points 4 months ago
Jehovahs witnesses believe hell is from Sheol which was a pile of burning trash outside the city, and the burning of trash was a symbol of those going to hell not existing anymore, rather than being tortured in fire.
[–]dontlikekarma 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Better then just being aware of it, they keep you alive and keep you on fire until you agree with the government.
[–]KindredBear 49 points50 points51 points 4 months ago
is it just me, or does an immortal robot body in return for blind belief sound like an ok trade off?
[–]trakam 33 points34 points35 points 4 months ago
Your username should be Pascal
[–]underswamp1008 15 points16 points17 points 4 months ago
Sure, but you wouldn't be able to do it. "The government monitors all of your thought and actions to determine if you support what it does." You can't fake it. Thought crimes, bitch.
[–]KindredBear 10 points11 points12 points 4 months ago
dude for the promise of an immortal robot body ill do fuckin anything ANYTHING, wont be fake motherfucker...
[–]underswamp1008 13 points14 points15 points 4 months ago
"Redditor 'Kindred Bear' kills self in hypothetical alternate universe — Autopsy shows brain exploded from repeated self thought-subversion
"He really wanted that fucking robot body" - Close Friend
[–]corcyra 83 points84 points85 points 4 months ago
Very good, and the ending was surprise!
[–]texturehelper 52 points53 points54 points 4 months ago
You clearly haven't been lurking around here enough, then.
[–]markevens 75 points76 points77 points 4 months ago
I saw this off the front page and didn't notice the subreddit origin. I was expecting some /r/politics thing and was also surprised at the ending.
[–]corcyra 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
My disbelief is easily and willingly suspended on reddit. Makes it more fun.
[–]sytar6 63 points64 points65 points 4 months ago
I'm an atheist, but I've got the counter argument.
You wouldn't want this to be a blueprint for government because government is run by humans who are corrupt and imperfect. If God was running your government, you'd have a benevolent dictator kind of situation going on, which is the best possible kind of government. Unfortunately, benevolent dictators are hard to come by.
[–]DownvotesOwnPost 35 points36 points37 points 4 months ago
God is benevolent?
[–]DyouKnowWhatiMean 29 points30 points31 points 4 months ago
I think God is a pretty cool guy. Eh makes people and doesn't afraid of anything.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
God killed millions (or billions) of people in the bible, while Satan killed fewer than 10.
[–]KyotoWolf 21 points22 points23 points 4 months ago
The whole point of the picture is to state that God is not benevolent
[–]sytar6 17 points18 points19 points 4 months ago
I will call you "atheist fundamentalist" for your expert use of circular logic.
[–]KyotoWolf 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
I'm not an atheist, but thanks for the label anyway. On the circular argument, you're correct but all the same, that's the argument that's in essence being used in the image.
[–]babayetuyetu 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
sytar6 is still making a counterpoint against the premise (i.e. addressing a point instead of missing it entirely)
[–]HoppyMcScragg 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
If you're going to throw out the idea of Hell, and throw out the horrible things God does in the Bible, and imagine a God who actually is all-good -- well, sure. That would be much different.
A God who sends people to Hell for doubting him is not a benevolent dictator. And that's the traditional idea of God that this image is arguing against.
[–]confuzious 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
People in govt aren't corrupt, they just do extra favors for people that do them extra favors. God isn't like that. Oh, wait...
[–]spiesvsmercs 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago*
Another flaw with this analogy is that you do not need to flawlessly support God, you just have to acknowledge Jesus as the savior.
It's the difference between being the mindless drone of a dystopian government in order to get to heaven, versus saying, "I love our government, but these laws have to change!"
The former sucks, the latter is OK.
[–]357Magnum[S] 77 points78 points79 points 4 months ago
Hot damn, first time making the front page! Woo!
[–][deleted] 4 months ago
[deleted]
[–]atwoslottoaster 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago
I don't think the last panel fits quite right "Why is it God's Law" means Christians would have to be able to explain it and they'll say he just works in mysterious ways. If you made it say something like "Then why do you allow this of God" or "Why are you ok if God does this" or something along those lines I think this would be a little more solid. Nice job though, didn't see that coming at all (saw it on the front page, didn't see it was an /r/atheism post).
[–]ImAWhaleBiologist 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago
Immortal robot body? Sorry guys, I'm with Big Brother. Fuck Eurasia.
[–]cure1245 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
What are you talking about? Eurasia has always been our ally; Eastasia our sworn enemies...
[–]Viper007Bond 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
I'd take the robot body and use it to overthrow the government. It's a win/win really.
[–]fuslanewalla 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
/r/atheism. I just want to say, thank you. You make me feel less lonely.
[–]mtnjon 15 points16 points17 points 4 months ago
Nicely done. Sharers gonna share.
[–]elviejomao 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
That sounds nice, but the reality here would be "reposters gonna repost"
[–]05senses 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago*
As a person who has been a Christian all my life (20 years), this seriously made me question the entire concept of Christianity. Job well done r/atheism
[–]Gramma42ton 13 points14 points15 points 4 months ago
That actually sounds like a good idea...
First of all, it's grounded in reality, so the simile doesn't really apply here. You aren't promised eternal bliss, just immortality.
The problem with religion is that it is bullshit without proof. In the proposed society, you would see immortal robots going about their business, a "living" proof that what the government promises is true.
If all it takes is obedience for a lifetime in exchange for an eternity of free will, then I can deal with being patient for 70-80 years. Better yet, you can refuse hospital treatment to get your immortal body faster.
This type of society will work perfectly based solely on the fact that you would constantly be able to communicate with your great grandparents, your grandparents, your parents when they pass away.
[–]Pirsqed 23 points24 points25 points 4 months ago*
Wait a second.
Why do you think the government would let you do whatever you want as a robot? You would be their servant forever.
Also, you would only get that robot body if you really believed in what the government was doing. They can read your mind, remember? They would know if you were just "biding your time."
Just because something is true doesn't mean it's desirable. Christopher Hitchens was pretty famous for saying, even if Christianity was true, he wouldn't want to have anything to do with it because he wouldn't want to worship such an evil god.
[–]quigley007 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
Not to mention the maintenance contract you have to sign to keep your robotic body up to snuff.
[–]Joja92 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
"Incapable of feeling sadness" You wouldn't care if you were a servant. You would be happy with whatever. Eternal happiness. Is that not what people want? As noble as it is, for you want to achieve it "the right way", in the end, I don't think it would matter.
[–]Machin3s 9 points10 points11 points 4 months ago
I was raised as a born-again Christian, but this was the turning point for me. When I really realised that it was bullshit. I think I was about 12, maybe 13 - and we were being thought about the Apocalypse, and what would happen after. That God would establish a government that would rule over all mankind, that there'd be no more wars because there'd be no other parties, nobody who could disagree with God and so on.
"So, it'll be, like, a fascist state? Like a one-party government?" "It'll be perfect. You'll see."
[–]JasonWeb54 12 points13 points14 points 4 months ago
How are you raised as a born-again Christian?
[–]gilligan156 13 points14 points15 points 4 months ago
Maybe he was Hindu in a past life.
[–]carlosboozer 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
whoa...... you just blew my FUCKIN mind
[–]Zhankfor 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
When you state, as the premise, that it's a dystopian future, it's impossible to argue that it's anything else.
[–]StealthTomato 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
To the top with you! I was going to point this out myself.
[–]Lilyo 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
What I find most interesting about modern day organized religion is that it can derive self credibility by refuting parts of the very thing the religion is supposed to be built upon. Modern day Christian theology makes a practice out of completely disregarding aspects of the Bible that we view as "outdated" or that are supposed to be viewed as "symbolism and metaphors". I just don't understand how you could ever live your life around an idea that is derived from so much incredibility, logical fallacies,and mythological and fictional stories. I feel religion is more of a societal conformity than anything else today. You're born into a religious family as a kid and are indoctrinated with your parents beliefs and you go along with it because its just the thing to do.
[–]357Magnum[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago*
A few hours after making this I realized I should have added a panel about how the government in the analogy makes arbitrary decisions regarding who gets what, giving some people riches and torturing others without a reason. Then there would be the panel about if you support the government fully you get a robot body and if not you are incinerated. It would work better that way. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
And to the critics out there who don't agree with the general point - that's fine. But keep in mind that this is not meant to be a distinct condemnation of Christianity particularly or any specific verses from any specific holy book. This is just my version of the "ogre with a pistol" story we see on here all the time. I think the dystopian sci-fi big-brother analogy is easier to accept because it has been done seriously in literature. The main point I am trying to make here is a criticism of the idea of following the arbitrary rules of an omnipotent deity in order to get eternal pleasure or eternal punishment. What I think makes the point valid is that in this situation, where you would KNOW for a FACT that you would get a robot body, there is still room to criticize tyranny, and many people would. Whereas with religion, you aren't even sure about the afterlife, but it would still have you follow its rules.
[–]Thaumimicus 6 points7 points8 points 4 months ago
Didn't even see that coming, intriguing analogy.
[–]error1954 7 points8 points9 points 4 months ago
That reminds me of in 9th grade during German class, me and a bunch of friends decided that if Christians were right and god was real, we were going to over throw him and set up a democratic government.
[–]LonelyVoiceOfReason 24 points25 points26 points 4 months ago
I'm no theist, but the rebuttal here seems kind of simple. God's law is not a blueprint for a government. The bible makes no indication that civil society should mirror the structure of the eternal plan. In fact it makes it quite clear that you are to respect civil society.
It doesn't sound like an ideal government, because it isn't a government. Governments have to be run by people. People are on the whole a rather ignorant, misguided, cruel, selfish, and corruptible lot. Which means we need to invent structure that keep human nature in check.
So being able to be critical of the government is essential and we would view as horrible any government that restricted criticism because we know from experience that this leads to corrupt and malicious government. A government that demands obedience alone will get it... but what they are demanding obedience to will probably be shit.
The christian god is omnipotent omniscient and omnibenevolent. He wouldn't need criticism to keep him from fucking things up. He would be perfectly right the first time. He would never misunderstand your thoughts. Never have an incomplete picture. Never punish you more than you actually deserved. His only real problem would be dealing with the fact that he doesn't exist.
[–]viiScorp 49 points50 points51 points 4 months ago
Ah yes, the old "if God does it it's different/okay."
[–]crusoe 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Euthrypo Dilemma
Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?
The problem that comes up, is, what if God is evil? :)
[–]Daminals 27 points28 points29 points 4 months ago
The Christian god certainly is NOT omnibenevolent, at least according to the Bible. He ruins Job's entire shit, demands that everyone to do his bidding, kills the ENTIRE POPULATION of the world that HE created, even though an omniscient god that creates something should know what would happen as a result of his actions.
And Satan... doubted him. He resisted against what he saw as a fascist dictatorship and told people to think for themselves, to question authority. Kind of goes along with his name, Lucifer: bringer of light. Satan sounds like a badass. Think Luke Skywalker.
If Christianity was literally true, I would definitely be on Satan's team.
[–]LetMeResearchThat4U 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago
I am going to have to be on Satan's side as well.
Any god or person that forces you to their will and beliefs and threatens you with being beaten for the rest of your life/ living in hell is obviously not on your side he simply is on his side.
[–]EndTimer 10 points11 points12 points 4 months ago
omnibenevolent burns you with the rest of the trash (from OP)
omnibenevolent
burns you with the rest of the trash (from OP)
... Have you ever read 1984? The only thing omnibenevolent about the typical conception of God is that people call it omnibenevolent, but words have meaning.
All I can say is what if God was corrupt, and anyone who says otherwise is buying into the fantasy image it has constructed for its own benefit, just like the hypothetical government in the OP?
[–]pornmonger 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
I agree. I like the premise but Christians believe God would indeed know best for them and that any authority God enforces would be divine and perfect.
[–]terari 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
In fact it makes it quite clear that you are to respect civil society.
citation needed
[–]LonelyVoiceOfReason 15 points16 points17 points 4 months ago*
"Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God" Romans 13:1
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" -Jesus Mathew 22:21
"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But now (or 'as it is') my kingdom is not from the world"
-Jesus at his trial telling pontius pilate that he does not seek an earthly kingdom. (John 18:36)
The bible makes it quite clear that the religious kingdom is not of this world. That Jesus did not intend to make it of this world. And that he thought it right to obey civil authorities.(obviously only to a certain degree)
I'm also not sure why you are being downvoted. I wouldn't expect every atheist to know every teaching of a god who they don't believe in. Nor would I expect you to simply take my word for it. Asking for a citation doesn't become a bad question simply because there is one.
[–][deleted] 4 months ago*
[–]Assaultman67 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
The idea is that god's laws are the prime example of what is morally right.
This idea gets dilluted by comparing god to a goverment because a goverment is ruled by humans, already imperfect.
This isn't a perfect comparison.
awaits his downvotes
[–]FF-Syk 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Thought for a second I was reading an /r/Cyberpunk post...
[–]blandjoe 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
So... who is going to write the script?
[–]rudymiked 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
This is awesome
[–]cowboyitaliano 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Oh yea - average human would become Bender
[–]QuitReadingMyName 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Huh, one way of putting it. Clever.
[–]gusty822 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Source on the first panels artwork?
[–]RileyDCoyote 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I think you're forgetting a part. It should be, if you disagree with the government, you are kept alive just enough to feel pain and then tortured for eternity.
[–]pastramipaladin 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
That really would be a dystopia if we had to get around in biplanes. That first picture got it right.
[–]Zinthorr 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Would you mind if I use this concept to create a short story?
[–]BLAK_attack 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I.... I think I just turned atheist...
[–]dafones 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
You get a robot body in heaven? Oh fuck this nonsense, I'm totally born again now.
[–]cjnkns 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
This is an excellent analogy.
[–]ColdFire75 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Wow, I didn't notice the sub reddit, read it all, then did a "Woha", when I got to the last panel
[–]deathleeehallows 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
what a gross mischaracterization of the Christian faith...
[–]benji07 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Yawn. Oversimplification, straw man argument...
I was actually going to say yeah, that sounds good to me... didn't know it was an argument against Christianity. I'm not Christian so I guess the argument failed.
[–]Lucifers_Friend 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Heaven sounds dandy. That's not my problem with it. My problem is that it's probably not real. That's the deal breaker.
[–]IMAROBOTLOL 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I FAIL TO SEE THE ISSUE WITH THE ROBOT BODY.
[–]Alex_Gianturco 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I think I'd be absolutely fine with that.
In OP's case - we essentially have proof of a God - the government - that is capable of giving you infinite joy and everlasting life in return for obedience.
Stupid example to be honest.
[–]mrbobdober 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Don't forget that government would also have the following law: If you're a criminal scumbag who breaks every law throughout his life but you say you're sorry and that you support the government right before you die, you'll get the robot body.
[–]Forhavu 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Christian here, and this humorous.
How a normal christian would respond: Hell isnt even necessarily a fire pit. It's not dystopian and you aren't denied the presence of God because you don't agree with him. It's because God cannot physically be in the presence of sin. He WANTS you there. It hurts him to deny you entrance. But he can't any other way.
That's how it is explained.
[–]Feinberg 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
You realize that explanation is thoroughly crazy and full of holes, right?
the problem is with science this might someday be possible. god i want ghost in the shell to be real.
[–]MelloYello86 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
I like how, even as an atheist, this caught me off guard until the last frame. Then again it could be the sleep deprivation talking...
[–]ninevite 11 points12 points13 points 4 months ago
So does r/atheism recognize this is a very simplified, generalized, and wholly inaccurate depection of what the Bible actually says? Will probably get downvoted\circle-jerked on but I hope not.
[–]Dereliction 10 points11 points12 points 4 months ago
this is a very simplified, generalized, and wholly inaccurate depection of what the Bible actually says
Which means it's just like the Christianity that people actually believe. Go figure!
1.) Does an omniscient God always know your thoughts?
2.) Does the Bible say you'll be punished in hell if you reject God? (the only discrepancy is that questioning is supposedly okay, as long as you come to the "right" conclusion)
The "robot body" part in his analogy was not literal. The Bible says a lot of things, including things about going to hell. How is this inaccurate? I downvoted you because you didn't bother explaining yourself at all, it just seemed like you wanted to circle jerk against the circle jerk to distinguish yourself as different or a cut above the rest.
[–]sytar6 11 points12 points13 points 4 months ago
Expand?
[–]snacknuts 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
Well the Bible doesn't really talk about Heaven or Hell in any great detail. Heaven is not necessarily a painless paradise, nor is it seen as such by all Christians. The common picture of fire and brimstone and torture for Hell was popularized by Dante's Inferno.
[–]eastvalley 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I believe Dante did use some reference from the Bible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_of_fire
[–]snacknuts 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
That is in Revelations though.
[–]Collosis 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
Might be highly generalised but not exactly inaccurate.
[–]Revolutionary2012 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
First thing i've ever upvoted from r/atheism
[–]whiteknight521 3 points4 points5 points 4 months ago
I think this is the scary thing many atheists do not realize about Christianity - God does not have to be just to exist. There could be an omnipotent being who is evil and vindictive - we would be powerless to stop such a being and groveling in worship would be the only course of action (any of us would to avoid an eternity of torture - most of us would do such to avoid even human torture).
[–]etherreal 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
I worship nobody, evil or not.
[–]whiteknight521 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Yeah, that is fine and well, but an omnipotent God could easily force you to do so - what do you think you would do about it? How steadfast would you hold to that under extreme torture? Even if you never broke an omnipotent God could simply instantaneously reconfigure the molecular assembly of your brain to make you think whatever he/she/it wanted you to.
[–]perverse_imp 4 points5 points6 points 4 months ago
If he could do that, then what is the point? If God can do anything, for any or no reason, evil-good-or benign, then why does he exist? There is no purpose for such a being. No meaning for it's existence. Nothing can threaten it, nothing can kill it, nothing can affect it. Even the smallest life form on our planet has a role in the ecosystem. Every life form is a factor. God is not a factor. He's the observer that only affects the observed. There is no reason for him to exist.
I personally think that if such a being existed, it would want to end it's existence. If the only point of Being is observing...Why bother?
[–]whiteknight521 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
There is a great Asimov story on that - basically an omnipotent being that uses life as a crowd sourcing operation to figure out its purpose. I think the reason God exists is because the mammalian brain has evolved to need an immediate explanation for everything it observes.
[–]perverse_imp 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
I would like to read that if you happen to have a link.
[–]aSpanishGoat 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
Hey guys let's just over simplify everything okay?
[–]posthuman01 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
That first scene was from metropolis, not exactly dystopian in my book.
[–]Antares42 17 points18 points19 points 4 months ago
What? With the workers remaining poor and living in an underworld that the rich people on top hardly even know about? I think that's dystopian enough.
[–]Ze_Carioca 8 points9 points10 points 4 months ago
Sounds like the present.
[–]OmegaArcadia[] 14 points15 points16 points 4 months ago
It's almost as if Metropolis were created to tell us something . . .
[–]357Magnum[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
I just googled "dystopian future" for a suitable image and that came up.
[–]OmegaArcadia[] 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
You should watch the film. Classic.
[–]EggyMc 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
It's good, but Religion does not equal government unless you're the extremist branch of the Republican party. To Caesar what is Caesar's and all that.
[–]ConsummateK 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
This implies that one thought of doubt or questioning dooms you to hell, which for most faiths that I'm aware of is incorrect. These types of posts are what cause the "other side" to not want to have a cordial discussion and instead turn to mud slinging and generalizations of their own.
[–]Izawwlgood 1 point2 points3 points 4 months ago
Don't forget, everyone who doesn't live in your country is rounded up on their death bed, their consciousness placed into a robotic mind, and subjected to an eternity of pain!
[–]unloud 2 points3 points4 points 4 months ago
This is such a pitiful excuse for an analogy. The only reason why it has any effect at all is because you have that blunt ending. The fact of the matter is christians dont believe that we are some willing actors in a series of events. Christians consider us to be given free will but it is a gift.
A better analogy would be what if you were a robot born in a laboratory created by a scientist. The scientist tells you he will allow you to live as long as you can manage on your own and if you stay in contact with him and seek a relationship with him he will make sure you live forever. If not, he will allow you to fall to ruin.
Yeah, that's right, even my analogy is shitty. However, it's still better than this post, which isn't saying much.
[–]klyph 5 points6 points7 points 4 months ago
But... that still results in a "my way or you lose" situation... and by you lose I mean stop being. Any system that gives you two chosies like this and claims that you have free will is not being compleatly honest.
[–]manuman109 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Sounds like 1984 except the part where you go to different places for dying
[–]davedcne 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Anyone that gives me an immortal robot body is ok in my book. Especially if they hook me up all ghost in the shell style. I want to scope people from orbit damn it.
[–]Ricrac722 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
So what you're saying is that if I do good I'll become a CyberMan? Sign me up!
[–]drewsaysgoveg 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
I think there are a lot of analogies between religion and government
[–]tasuret 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
That's actually not that bad of a plan.
[–]WhiteMarauder 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
The thing about this government is. It is impossible for most people, even the ones who support it to not question it at least once when they are tracking every thought in your brain.
[–]Supertrinko 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Immortal robot body? Cool.
Unable to feel sadness? Not so cool. Feeling sad is one of our greatest assets, without it, how can we show empathy for those that need help? Say for instance, those burning below.
[–]vashino 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
If Jesus was really handing out immortal robot bodies... well I might just switch sides :P
[–]ZeMilkman 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Sounds pretty good to me actually.
[–]UNEification 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
holy shit.
[–]thesketcher 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Beautiful. Commenting for future reference.
[–]Cherried 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Wait... I'm missing the part that is unappealing about having a robot body once your flesh wears out...
[–]mrplow8 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
"Ideal government" is an oxymoron.
[–]thouartatheist 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
This is beautiful and brilliant.
[–]MrGoneshead 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Scathing commentary is scathing. Ouch.
[–]Mr_Ramsay 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
this is great. I had never looked at the 10th commandment as a means to promote thought crime until Christopher Hitchens mentioned it in a debate.
[–]Allanthegrreat 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Sounds like a good sci fi movie
[–]ITS540PM 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Very Socrates-like. Having people come upon knowledge by themselves by simply asking them questions instead of impressing "truths" on them.
[–]lafkak 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Actually, it does, when all of the government's laws are objectively just and good. If you're going to take belief into absurd literalism, then you need to do that to all of it and not just your view...
[–]MikeMagwire 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Transcendentalism. Allah. God.
Its not going to be robotic, but it sure the fuck isnt black.
[–]fuZZe 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Have you ever wondered, what is it that the Government wants? Can it ever get to a point where it is content with what it has? What would it take so satiate their will?
Is it possible to just give them whatever it is that they want, and remover yourself to some other place and be left alone?
[–]elmerion 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
The sad truth is this is the only possible perfect form of government as the world is full of retards and dumbfucks
[–]Roflkopt3r 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Actually that would be somewhat okay with me so far. It's arguable whether or not infinite life is actually something to wish for, even when not feeling sadness the ability to feel happiness may diminish over time when there is no counterpart. And it's actually hard to define and seperate sadness from other emotions. How about 'desperation' for example?
Anyway, if the only punishment would be to actually have to die at the end of one's life... no objections. But christianity threatens one with eternal torture, that's a completely different thing.
[–]xXArisenXx 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Because religion is a form of government. The entire reason we have religion is so to manipulate and control the gullible masses.
gov·ern/ˈgəvərn/ Verb:
Conduct the policy, actions, and affairs of (a state, organization, or people).
Control, influence, or regulate (a person, action, or course of events).
[–]kaladyn 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
TECHNICALLY, you could pray to God and be redeemed. I was going to repost this, but its not technically correct. =/
[–]RobotNate 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
ALL the upvotes!
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
I saw this on 4chan a half an hour ago.
[–]RealBigMeech103 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
If there's Robot Heaven then Robot Hell can't be that bad
[–]I_be_postin 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Whenever this stuff makes it to the front page I always come here looking for a reasonable explanation from a religious person as to why this is a huge generalization and doesn't really work for anyone other than insane evangelicals....then I realize im in r/atheism
[–]gthkeno 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
yeah but with Christianity its not just question god its like if you rape 72 virgins you can still get you robot body.
[–]BreadBaconOnionBread 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Obey now, question later?
[–]Xdexter23 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
Not just a robot, but a robot with wings!
[–]airspitter 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
They would throw all the Atheist's into the trash compacter then incinerate them, i'm scared of the future now.
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