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top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]kezza596 759 points760 points ago

The fact that he is so recognisable, even without the tanks in front of him (if I'm honest, it took me a while to notice them, I thought it was the same shot but from a different angle, hence wondering how I can see the bus but no tanks in front of him) just goes to show how solid this image is in our worlds history.

Does anyone know what became of him?

[–]borkborkbork 281 points282 points ago

Actually, no.

[–]thejmanjman 655 points656 points ago

I think China knows EXACTLY where he is.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]thedarkpurpleone 158 points159 points ago

Pieces? As far as most younger people in china know this moment never happened.

[–]BoomHedshot 214 points215 points ago

What never happened?

[–]suhbeed 118 points119 points ago

Exactly.

[–]iama_brick 164 points165 points ago

Goddamit, why do you people keep thinking we young Chinese don't know? Any Chinese who claim they've never heard of June 4 are either fucking liars or have been living under a rock

[–]linlorienelen 347 points348 points ago

How do you know? You're a brick.

[–]ceri23[!] 85 points86 points ago

The man makes a valid point.

[–]DaGetz 73 points74 points ago

Just another in the wall

[–]DeweyFat 88 points89 points ago

Education:

[ ] Needed

[x] Not needed

[–]DaGetz 62 points63 points ago

Thought Control: [ ] Needed [x] Not needed

[–]natophonic 21 points22 points ago

Because the Chinese government is portrayed as an onerous and effective censor of anything that reflects badly on the The Party. Whether that's reality or not, I can't say from personal experience, and I get mixed reports from friends who've come from there or lived there. Nonetheless, a few years back there was a news documentary show ('Frontline', which is fairly well-respected in the US) that went to China and showed students a picture of Tank Man, and the students appeared not to know what it was.

Perhaps in 10-15 years, a Chinese documentary show will send a team to show American students video of Occupy protestors having the crap beat out of them by cops, and those students will balk at admitting they know what they're looking at, lest they lose their scholarships and loans for harboring un-American sentiments. Perhaps not probable, but certainly possible.

[–]srs_house 17 points18 points ago

I'd hesitate at comparing Tank Man to Occupy protesters. 1) he was just a normal guy, carrying two shopping bags, who took a stand while everyone else fled and 2) there were reports that the tanks had, in previous days, been running civilians over and killing them.

[–]Vuchetich 28 points29 points ago

In those medicine capsules in Korea, that's where!

[–]kezza596 72 points73 points ago

What a shame that such an iconic man should have to fear punishment from his own government for such a humane act. I dread to think what China and their rule did to the poor guy.

[–]schoolbusfire 64 points65 points ago

In a way his unchosen anonymity makes his act even more the powerful; if you lay down your self-righteousness and ego for a cause you truly believe in (not like celebs that triumph causes, worthy as they may be, for publicity ) you could bring extreme emotions and ideologies to light for countless others.

[–]3BetLight 17 points18 points ago

I agree, sadly after reading the all the conflicting reports of what happened to him / who he is I have to figure he was executed pretty shortly after that incident.

[–]everythingsucks 71 points72 points ago

What's also a shame is that nobody pays any attention to the tank commander. He's the man who refused to run the Tank Man over, instead trying to pass him on the side. Every time, the Tank Man would move in front of the tanks again, and each time, the tank commander would try to pass him on the other side. He could have just kept going straight, run him over or force him aside, but he didn't.

There are two hero's in that iconic Tiananmen Square picture. One is the Tank Man; the other no-one ever talks about.

[–]xipel 50 points51 points ago

It's not really known. Most people think he's dead.

But there's also a conspiracy about it. In the video you can see that he's quickly rushed away. There are beliefs that the people that rush him off were plain clothes soldiers trying to get him out of the way and detain him inconspicuously. I think the speculation is that the people who run out with their hands up are signalling to the tanks that they're plain clothes soldiers and not to shoot or anything, and the guy with his shirt at the end is signalling that they have the guy and for the tanks to continue on.

Either way, I would vote he's dead. I can't see one of the most iconic/famous protesters ever living out the rest of his life in hiding.

[–]Siggy778 964 points965 points ago

This picture made my jaw drop. Never seen such a historic moment from anything but that one angle we always see.

[–]tk338 224 points225 points ago

Agreed. The panic on the sprinting guys face is haunting, the moment I saw him I knew I just had to look behind him for whatever he was running from. Incredible shot!

[–]phaeton02 87 points88 points ago

Yes, everything seems so immediate in this picture... the drama leading up to the historical confrontation. Incredible.

[–]ahsrubbery 75 points76 points ago

To me, everything in that picture is so surreal. The panic on sprinting guys face. The guy next to him, whos also running but who also looks like hes smillng. The guy cycling staring at something in the distance, but not at tankman, something else. And then of course tank man. Who has decided to plonk himself infront of the tanks and wait. Wait for the damn tanks to come to HIM. Amazing photo.

[–]tk338 21 points22 points ago

Not gonna lie, gave me chill reading that.

[–]Anna_Mosity 7 points8 points ago

"And then of course tank man. Who has decided to plonk himself infront of the tanks and wait. Wait for the damn tanks to come to HIM." Dang, man. You perfectly summed up what I love about that picture.

[–]Hlidarendi 3 points4 points ago

The guy beside him doesn't looked in panic at all. He almost looks like he's going for a nonchalant jog.

[–]deathbytray 2707 points2708 points ago

What could be an incredible historical picture... it deserves better than a title that made me look for a surprise penis.

[–]gimptactics 978 points979 points ago

I sort of agree, but on the other hand it was a real "oh shit..." moment when I saw the tanks and then tracked my eye left to see if HE was there.

Like discovering something new.

[–]cal679 364 points365 points ago

Oh, now I see it. I thought it was just the tank that was the subject, and it was trying to say "you probably would shit yourself". This is kind of amazing to see such a famous image from a different perspective.

[–]KazzaBiss 186 points187 points ago

At first I thought the "when you see it" was how the guy was just casually walking down the other side of the street with his bags seemingly oblivious to the tanks driving past him on the street.

Then I saw that he actually was standing in the path of the tanks and realized what this picture was actually of. So I agree, this deserves a slightly better title but it's still very amazing.

[–]Ze_Carioca 95 points96 points ago

Did anyone else see the tanks and kept looking for something else?

I thought the tanks were too obvious and I was missing something.

[–]pineapplol 18 points19 points ago

Yeah, they guy on the left is the tank man. As in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

[–]Krywiggles 21 points22 points ago

wait, so this is not photoshopped? I am actually serious. I can never tell anymore whether or not something is photoshopped

[–]CrazyGypsies 85 points86 points ago*

It is a famous image of the Tienanmen Suqare portests being broken up by the Chinese military forces. That man was one person who had enough of the oppression and stood in front of the tank in protest. I actually watched a documentary of it in my global history class and they had one photographer interviewed. He said that some military officials saw him on the balcony of his hotel and he had to hide the film in the toilet bowl so that they would not take it. If you would like to know more, he is known as "Tank Man." The Chinese government massacred all the protesters at the square and then pretended it never happened. Here is a link to the Wikipedia page!

EDIT: It's not the specific famous picture, just the same scene taken from another angle. The famous picture was taken from a hotel balcony, as I described above.

[–]khafra 39 points40 points ago

Yeah, but this isn't the famous image. This is one of the same scene, taken a few seconds earlier, from what appears to be a grassy knoll. Raises questions. But awesome.

[–]Compumerk 134 points135 points ago

the mundane shopping bags ... just hanging there.

[–]Aspire101 296 points297 points ago

Just an ordinary man, doing something extraordinary.

[–]supergayjesus 360 points361 points ago

That was one of the things that always made that photo powerful for me. The shopping bags certainly indicate that this is not a man who planned to attend a demonstration, take part in organizing against the government, or any of the other qualities you would expect from a depiction of a defiant revolutionary standing alone against a intimidating oppressor. No. It's just some dude on his way home from grabbing some groceries who thought "You know what? Fuck this."

[–]SWATtheory 24 points25 points ago

What ever happened to him anyway...or did they finally just run him over?

[–]Alexiares 41 points42 points ago*

His name is supposed to be, (but probably isn't) Wang-Wei Lin. I've been told that the name is the Chinese equivalent of John Doe, or that it means "Nobody" - Lots of mystery about this guy although the sad truth is that he's probably dead. Anyhow, here's the Wikipedia link for Tank Man.

Edit: Watched on TV as it unfolded, and what he did next was, I think, as or more profound than standing in front of the tanks. First they tried going left / right to try and get around him, but he would reposition himself each time. Once the head tank stopped, he climbed up on the tank, opened the hatch and confronted the soldiers within! When he got down again he was grabbed and moved away, either by friends or secret police.

[–]tremens 19 points20 points ago

Helpful video of him doing the Tank Dance you describe.

[–]FluffheadOG 66 points67 points ago

In a 1990 interview with Barbara Walters, then-CPC General Secretary Jiang Zemin was asked what became of the man. Jiang first stated (through an interpreter), "I can't confirm whether this young man you mentioned was arrested or not," and then replied in English, "I think...never killed">

He is said to have hidden in China for 3 years and 9 months after the incident, and eventually settled in Taiwan. The professor also stated that the tank man is a specialist in Chinese archaeology>

[–]SWATtheory 10 points11 points ago

That's pretty cool. Although in all honesty I'm surprised he was able to make it out of the square alive before one of the tank drivers said "fuck this" and jumped out to either shoot him or constrain him.

[–]IAMBollock 18 points19 points ago

He swiftly buggered off and no one could name him/would grass him up.

[–]hcnye 45 points46 points ago

I thought I heard that almost nobody in China even knows about him, because of censorship. Is that true?

[–]tofued 1436 points1437 points ago*

Here's my two cents, having grown up in China. It's really hard for me to articulate my point clearly due to English being a second language, but I will try:

(EDIT: I don't mean I'm bad at English, just that I feel like what I write does not fully express what I wish I could convey. Having lived half my life in America after being granted asylum here, I know my English is pretty good. I've also picked up a lot of the idioms, although I don't use them correctly sometimes. I also took a while typing this up, checking and double checking my grammar. because I know people on the internet can be a little harsh when it comes to grammar.)

I grew up in China, my family the type of proletariat that Maoism claimed to have fought for. None of the adults ever spoke of June 4th, whether or not they knew of it; therefore those of my generation couldn't even have possibly heard of it. But it's not because of censorship. It's because we were the type of people that were too knee deep in poverty and too uneducated to worry about anything other than looking after our own survival. For the longest time, I couldn't understand why people in China who had it so much better than me could possibly be protesting about when they had clothes that didn't have endless holes like mine, when they had plumbing and could afford to eat food that they didn't grow or catch themselves. There was simply too much else to worry about than to question the government, especially one that was telling us that they were fighting for people like us. I know for my parents and grandparents who grew up during the Cultural Revolution and its immediate aftermath, it was a completely different case. They were simply tired of hearing about it, too disheartened and apathetic and fearful due to the hardships they had endured for the majority of their lives. Someone who stood in front a tank would simply have been dismissed as a fool who was making life harder than it already was. There was just too much resentment towards the people who were educated and better off than us to care about their gripes, and other times when they did have valid points, life was already too painful and too filled with burdens to find the energy to care.

(On a side note, going back to China years later, I visited Tiananmen square. I had only learned of it and all the terrible connotations that came with it through the American education system. For my parents, it was a joyous time, seeing their fearless leader Mao's body and all. I was just confused as fuck as to what I should feel.)

People say communism is terrible and all, but having lived through it for half of my life, I am pretty indifferent. After all, for people like us, life only seemed to get better after Mao came into power. He represented people like us, with no hope of escaping the class we were born into, and gave us hope and let us know that we were not powerless. With the rich only getting richer and the poor only getting poorer, communism seemed to be a friend more than an enemy.

[–]Osiris32 392 points393 points ago*

Thank you VERY much for this. A lot of times we don't understand another culture's point of view because we have no experience with it, or the situations that surround it. Giving a good context for people's responses to a major event like this helps everyone understand the whole situation better.

I'm bestof-ing this, because I think people should read about it.

[–]baculumsucker 86 points87 points ago

My dad was actually there the night of June 3rd and June 4th. From what he told me it was not as idealistic as a democratic revolution perpetrated by the people which the American's try to make it out to be, but more just something college students thought was cool and wanted to follow(kinda like Kony or in 2008 when you had a bunch of kids wanting to vote Obama without knowing why). Most of the protestors were in that rebellious college and grad school phase and this was just something cool they wanted to do.

From what he told me, the troops were somewhat justified in their violence as well since part of it was to try and defend themselves. A lot of the troops were burned to death with Molotov cocktails. And even tanks and APC's got taken out when they had manhole covers jammed in their tracks to stop them and the troops were pulled out and beaten to death. To him, he's just surprised at how biased the Western media has been in covering and spinning the event.

[–]wizard_of_lolz 85 points86 points ago

To him, he's just surprised at how biased the Western media has been in covering and spinning the event.

The story, well the American version, perfectly fits our anti-communist government's ideology. The lone man standing against a tank also fits the archetype of our forefather rebels, and us the story of the Tank Man sounds a lot like a Chinese George Washington.

So in other words... it fits the US government's goals to make Tank Man a hero, and Tank Man's story is a perfect fit for what Americans would consider a political hero.

[–]POWindakissa 37 points38 points ago

My dad left after the Beijing to see his parent in Xian when it started because the protesters were burning all the buses and blocking roads. he can't go to work so he thought he might as well take some time off and go see ma and pa.

when he got back, he was told that the protest got out of hand and the military had to come and stop it.

His parents told him not to support the protesters. they remember the red guards of the cultural revolutions and the protesters seemed like them all over again.

[–]twistedcain 13 points14 points ago

You or anyone else would probably be hard pressed to find any government, modern or otherwise that went around telling their citizens that they were second or third best and most other countries were simply doing better.

[–]Kaahu 72 points73 points ago

Though I fully believe your dad's assessment, and understand the kind of faux-activism you're referring too, I think it dismissive to put down college age rebellion as "something cool [...] to do". Often college age activists are educated and well informed about their cause, and at that time of life they have the time and energy to be vocal about it- not having to work full-time or fend for their children/partners. No intention of contradicting your post, just worried about a possible harmful generalisation of peoples' motivations.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points ago*

It's a simple way of attempting to shut down a movement or dismiss it with a generalizing claim. It's pretty scummy actually and outright says that people in their early 20s have nothing to legitimate to protest which is utterly untrue. Particularly in China where human rights have been ignored.

It's basically the equivalent of "You'll understand when you're older" a tactic used by many people when they can't defend their own position but fall back on some guise of seniority as to why they're right as opposed to any other reasoning.

Basically it's what you trot out when you can't argue against someone. Literally, "Yeah well...HES IN COLLEGE!". It's a pretty clear indication when you're dealing with dirtbags.

[–]DeSoulis 13 points14 points ago

First of all: I'm Chinese. If there were any American analogue to Tienanmen square: it would be the Occupy movement rather than Kony. It's a travesty to just call them a bunch of rebellious college students. And the demands of the college student resonated with far beyond the college students themselves, but with the working class and the people of Beijing as well: which is largely why the government decided they had to crush it in the first place.

To give some context, China in 1989 have being moving well away from Maoism for the previous 10 years under Paramount leader Deng Xiaoping's open and reform policies (gaige kaifang). While overall it brought enormous net benefits to China, it also had significant negative consequences, many of which is easily seen in China today. Growing inequality between the rich and poor, huge increase in corruption and graft, the loss of careers for many with the dismantling of state owned enterprises/work units, inflation as price controls on food and other basic necessities were removed. It was a time when from certain points of view: the life of the average Chinese was either getting worse or at least remain very uncertain when the country as a whole was getting much richer. It wasn't a protest against the Communist past as in Europe, but rather against the present, against the inequality and injustices of a Capitalizing society which the students had being taught was wrong by their schools all their lives.

The protesters themselves were an amalgamation of ideologies (as with any protest). There were radicals who wanted to bring down the Chinese Communist party (CCP) like they were being brought down in Eastern Europe. But the protests were not anti-Communist like 1989 Eastern European ones for the simple reason that China was rapidly moving away from Communism already. For the vast majority they were content with the CCP staying power. Nor was it a repudiation of Mao's legacy: when some students attempted to vandalize Mao's huge portrait at the square the protesters actually handed them over to the police. What they did want was more democratic oversight over the government, better distribution of the economical bounties from China's reform policies, social and economic justice in general. In other words, the protests, at least to me, doesn't seem to much ideological as much as it was protesting against perceived ongoing grievances with the average person's life that the government was either causing or not doing enough about.

And this is where the resonance with the people of Beijing comes in. The people of Beijing in general supported the students because they were expressing the grievances which at the end of the day impacted the working class far more than the students: who were generally from more affluent families (also, this is why far more workers than students were executed by the government afterwards: since the students had important/well-off relatives to protect them).

None demonstrates this better than when the first wave of PLA soldiers entered Beijing having their vehicles being blocked off by Beijing residents and: ironically enough right out of the most idealized version of a Socialist revolution, reluctantly fraternizing with them. Many of those particular army troops were either Beijiner themselves or from areas around Beijing and therefore had deep connections with residents. If you watch footage of those troops you could see how horrible they must have felt as the people they lived around all their lives asking them "you are the people's army, how could you suppress those students you are suppose to be protecting?".

The end result of this was that the government decided those troops probably couldn't be relied upon to shoot down the students and pulled them out. They made sure subsequent army troops: the ones who actually did the suppression, were not troops who were from near Beijing, and whom did not speak the same dialect of Chinese as Beijiners did. That way they could simply tell them "those students are counter-revolutionaries" and when those troops have lots and lots of people in the streets yelling at them in a language you don't understand....well, if you were put in that spot you might be induced to believe it. But despite that: many many PLA officers were executed afterwards for (rightfully) refusing orders to fire on the students.

I think there is no way that a government sending in troops to suppress a peaceful protest can possibly be justified. But I don't really care to debate whether the students had the right to fight back against tanks being sent to suppress them. But the students themselves: arrogant and idealistic as they were, were hardly blameless either. Since the government was quite eager to negotiate with them at several points and they themselves sort of screwed it up.

As far as I'm concerned, the tank man certainly received quite a bit of western spin. But he remains a hero, because he represented a popular movement standing up against the brutal machinery of the state. To me, he represented a moment, a moment when the Chinese people had wished for and conceived of a better society than the one they had and took to the streets to try to achieve it together. Something which is sorely lacking in China today, which I feel people frankly have decided things are corrupt, nothing can be changed, so they decide to just take as much as they could out of themselves, no matter what injustices they are perpetuating.

[–]boogsie 6 points7 points ago*

I think that it is hard to say that their use of force was justified considering that the protests had been going on for weeks before and were completely peaceful until the government declared martial law in May.

Also, maybe it is hard for Western media to present an accurate account because the Chinese government banned all western media coverage of the event, and they very strictly controlled domestic media outlets. How do you suppose it should be covered?

The event, I think stirred up a lot of comparisons to uprisings in eastern europe such as the Hungarian revolution in 1956. People protested the oppressive soviet puppet government, and Khrushchev rolled in the tanks. At the time of the tiananmen square incident, you had countries all over eastern europe rising up and breaking away from the USSR, Gorbachev let those countries fall, he had already pulled out most of the soviet forces, and without that fear of force, the people rose up. I'd be willing to bet that the Chinese government was looking at communism falling all over the world and getting quite scared.

The strength of Stalinist Communism was the use of force to keep people in line. Fear and ignorance is what allowed Stalin to commit such horrible crimes and get away with it. As I'm sure you know, Mao was a big Stalinist, he had an enormous amount of respect for the man.

When a country kills hundreds, possibly thousands of its own citizens for expressing their voice, I'd be hard pressed to find ANY reason to say that the use of force was "justified."

[–]greendaze 8 points9 points ago

My mom said the same thing, about how it was just a bunch of rebellious university students getting out of control. Some politicians saw the protests as an opportunity to garner popular support and undermine the influence of those in power, so they portrayed themselves as being sympathetic to the students' cause. This is the reason why my mom can't stand Chinese politics; politicians are only ever out for themselves, no matter what ideologies they profess to espouse.

[–]randomsemicolon 9 points10 points ago

This is the reason why my mom can't stand Chinese politics; politicians are only ever out for themselves, no matter what ideologies they profess to espouse.

FTFY

[–]Kaevex 20 points21 points ago

My mom lived through half of her life in communist China in a more wealthier situation, her dad (my grandfather) being in the army and her mother working as a nurse in the hospital. All I hear from her about that time is how good it was and that everything was safe etc, even when I try to tell her about the famine and the effects of what Mao did in China, she'd just dismiss it. So part of me thinks some of them might just ignore the fact that all of this happened.

My mom left China for the Netherlands a year before the massacre happened though. Maybe I should ask her about how it was in China back in the day and whether she knows about the incident or not.

[–]saqwarrior 64 points65 points ago

First off, your English is nearly flawless, so don't worry about that. I do have a question, though: how is it that Mao and his government could be viewed as your "friends" when his Great Leap Forward was responsible for famine that killed many millions of people? Is that just testament to their skilled use of propaganda and indoctrination?

Edit: I guess another example of this is the DPRK, although I feel the methodology might be different...? Mao wasn't propped up as a demi-god, was he?

[–]gorat 41 points42 points ago

only the ones that survive remember. The stories are always "it was hard but we survived". The ones that didn't never tell stories.

[–]csolisr 27 points28 points ago

It's really hard for me to articulate my point clearly due to English being a second language, but I will try

your English is nearly flawless, so don't worry about that.

Fact: Whenever someone in Reddit states that his/her/their/its (?) English is lacking, the post ends up with flawless or very comprehensible English. Go figure!

[–]Thecrumblingcookie 18 points19 points ago

Yep, and the people who speak it all their lives butcher it beyond belief in some cases.

[–]Forensicator 17 points18 points ago

It's because those who grow up in the language use it intuitively without rigid analysis, while ESL speakers study the proper use of a participle, the way adverbs modify verbs, and the like. It's an interesting dynamic; at the more advanced levels of language study, you actually learn how to speak the tongue the same wrong way as the general population.

[–]tofued 7 points8 points ago

I don't speak for everyone, but where I grew up, people were already dying of famine and very common illnesses every day. Even if not in the literal sense, people were dying because there was no point in living with no tangible future to look to. Mao was like a brother to us, growing up in a similar situation being a poor peasant. And he greatly manipulated that knowledge and utilized all the pent up resentment the urban proletariat had towards the bourgeoisie and used us to fuel his revolution. Many of us starved during this period, but we believed that it was worth it if our children would get to see the better future as a result. (This is what I gather from talking to my aunts/uncles/older generation/etc.) I think the term for this is "a means to an end?"

[–]skyfarer 18 points19 points ago

My parents are old Beijingers. My mum actually protested at Tiananmen Square, but today she's an ardent supporter of our government, which can no longer be called Communist but some strange hybrid of corrupto-corporatist-capitalist-pseudo-communism.

Tbh, I think it's mainly nostalgia. A lot of things they did back then are hilariously sad to think about now, like reciting Mao's quotes all the time or getting meat once a year, but she had things like good friends, not much school, safety (never any fear about the police or strangers that there is now), and the knowledge that if she worked hard enough to get good grades - and she set a record for her year in college exam scores - she would be guaranteed a good and safe job for life. And tbh, as someone who worked her ass off to get into an Ivy that saddled me with 200k in debt and few job prospects (except back in China! lol), I envy that security and feeling that hard work really does lead to rewards.

Of course, this is no longer the case in China, where every person is out for themselves, but my parents still feel defensive when people criticize our government, as if the government represents the Chinese people. It's not that they don't criticize the government - hell, everyone in China hates the government and loves making fun of it, the way Redditors dislike 99% of politics - but the main thing is that you can't criticize someone else's family in Chinese culture; the family itself is already criticizing its own very harshly, and we don't like others butting their noses in. We are very big on the privacy and sanctity of the family and we expect insiders to resolve their own issues while we sort of awkwardly stand aside and pretend all is well. (We are, however, huge gossips.)

My biggest takeaway is that when you have good friends and parents who love you, you can be happy under the most awful of circumstances. My parents were so happy in their youth, even deprived of material goods and political freedom. I was extremely lucky to grow up in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, to have things like the Internet and iPhones and as much books as I ever wanted, but I was depressed, lonely, and pessimistic about my future. Today I am living in India and much more cheerful about who I am and where I am going.

[–]zyzzogeton 7 points8 points ago

To be fair, nobody in the US remembers the Business Plot when the father and grandfather of the two future Bush presidents attempted to overthrow the government and install a military fascist dictatorship.

Seriously. The citizens did what Prescott Bush could not... voted in nearly successive regimes of fascist assholes because they are too fat and lazy to read a goddamn history book.

[–]grons71 9 points10 points ago

My AP Government teacher made a similar point in high school. The poor are less likely to worry about political matters when they are worried about putting food on the table. Thus, politics is a game for the rich to play and the poor have to live with the results.

[–]kittenman 3 points4 points ago

I have a very similar background as you, but even poorer in fact: my family had been famers/peasants, even later on my parents built their own business, things were still tough. Most of the wealth were controlled by government officials. Basically what you speak of how most Chinese people are apathetic to the situation is spot on. However, having read 1984, I would add that the brainwash type of education from kindergarden and filtered foreign culture import, also contribute greatly to nationalism among the general population.

Thanks for sharing!

  • I have to also add that, I really can not agree with your last bit on Communism. Things hadn't been improving much until the 80s, when Mao died, so did his influence. Even the Party decided not to follow Mao's policies, party still hailed him as the leader, praised his legacy, for sort of like the "Big Brother" in 1984. Communism is a Utopia, and it will never work under a one-party-system.

[–]shichibukai 4 points5 points ago

Another guy here with similar BG as op: born in 82, into a military family, grandparents from both side were high ranking PLA officers, all of them imprisoned during the cultural revolution(got their names cleared afterwards, they continued to defend the regime), my mother, father and uncle were sent to labour camps in their youth, all of them participated in the 89' protests, and as a result all got kicked out of their families, uncled exiled to the US, mother later came to Canada as one of the first few post 89' visiting scientists and settled there.

Those of us who are lucky enough to have lived in both worlds can see it very clearly, the chinese never had a clear understanding of the idea of an egalitarian form of government, they never had anything like it, and after 5000 years of imperial rule, a form of survivalist mentality had deeply embedded itself into the chinese culture, so the merits of a "just ruler" are almost entirely judged based on prosperity. now like alot people here already mentioned, it seems of the majority of the chinese ppl are too "tired" to care about human rights and democracy, and to the outside world, they look like they are being brain washed. but talk to anyone in china and they'll tell you EXACTLY what is wrong with china, they know about the corruption, the censorship, human rights and all that, everyone knows but everyone is sort of ok with it, not that they are ignorant about it, but ok like a pc user is ok with ugrading from windows 3.1 to windows 7 over the years, gainning a few features here and there but a shit load of bugs, he knows mac is out there but he's gonna stick with pc and see what happens.

[–]AngryIgbo 49 points50 points ago

I have been to China - it is true. Not only did next to no one know who he was, many had NO IDEA WHAT HAD OCCURRED in Tiananmen Square. I spent over a year in Beijing and six months in Shanghai. Some people, when confronted and told about the massacre, dismissed it as American propoganda.

[–]and1li 6 points7 points ago

That's an exaggeration. It hasn't occurred that long ago. My dad was a doctor in Beijing during the Tiananmen Square massacre. My entire family, relatives in China who live in Shanghai and Beijing know about it, and it isn't a secret. Maybe some of the younger teens might not be aware, or the Chinese people might not like to talk about it, but the majority of people know what it is and what happened during that time.

[–]Limrickroll 13 points14 points ago

kinda like americans and ludlow

[–]robotman707 116 points117 points ago

I did the same thing, I was like, oh shit? Oh shit!

[–][deleted] 189 points190 points ago

Duuuuude. This was the best "when you see it" I've seen in a while.

[–]moarcats 61 points62 points ago

someone help me here...?

[–]o_OReddit 68 points69 points ago

Thank you

[–]ThaMastaBlasta 52 points53 points ago

Tank you!

[–]crawdaddy203 15 points16 points ago

Thank you! I could not find it but see it now

[–]chewnoill 64 points65 points ago

I think this happened just after the picture was taken:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ

[–]Gradath 20 points21 points ago

Holy shit, I had no idea he actually climbed up on the tanks. Do you know if there is more footage of what happened after that? Did someone drag him away or what?

[–]chewnoill 24 points25 points ago

some more citizens showed up and dragged the guy off, here:

http://youtu.be/qq8zFLIftGk

[–]Methedras 18 points19 points ago

In the bag he is holding, there are all the balls he couldn't hold in his pants .

[–]cunttastic 24 points25 points ago

I saw the guy first. Thought he was standing in front of the camper in the background. "I didn't think the tank looked like that..."

OH. Oh. Oh my.

[–]PirateGriffin 16 points17 points ago

I went the opposite way. I saw the guys running then the other fella calmy walking over, and I was like "he looks sorta familiar..." then I looked to the right, and there they were.

[–]commondenomigator 15 points16 points ago

I saw HIM first, and thought, "Hey, that looks a lot like..." then my eyes drifted right and that was the "oh shit..." moment for me.

[–]Newshoe 1468 points1469 points ago

The best surprise was no penis

[–]hinduguru 817 points818 points ago

I love not seeing penis

[–]Tossy_Salad 1133 points1134 points ago

I see a set of balls though.

[–]hinduguru 319 points320 points ago

Congrats on your first post

[–]7D4Y_WEEKENDS 146 points147 points ago

Why would you want to view his profile?

[–]thedeadhipster 224 points225 points ago

Yeah, everyone knows you don't make friends with salad

[–]GZerv 55 points56 points ago

you don't WIN friends with salad

ftfy

[–]because_im_boring 20 points21 points ago

you don't win friends with salad, you don't win friends with salad

[–]skybike 42 points43 points ago

What's a Protoss salad consist of?

[–]jonathan22tu 51 points52 points ago

Four gates and some cheese.

[–]rustafarius 303 points304 points ago

[–]mr-peabody 18 points19 points ago

What this taken from a Ghostbusters lunchbox dick treasure chest?

[–]Flawd 27 points28 points ago*

What's that gif? "I don't know what I expected" yet I clicked anyway....

Edit: fixed quote, thanks Tokuro

[–]Tokuro 101 points102 points ago

[–]GenericCanadian 87 points88 points ago

[–]mrlanious 35 points36 points ago

Looks like the Pope!

[–]gadabyte 10 points11 points ago

eat lots of fast food.

[–]themickster101 31 points32 points ago

The clown has NO penis!?

[–]howitzer86 48 points49 points ago

I loved it. I first looked at the guy behind the bicycles. Then I looked at the grinning guy to the left. I tried to see if there was anything odd about them, but couldn't figure it out. So I looked at the tractor, and was wondering what it was doing there. I saw the guy on the bicycle to the right, and then... tanks.

Familiar looking tanks...

I looked off to the distance, and there he was. The Tank Man.

When ever these kinds of pictures pop up, they usually don't have much of a story. It's about finding the odd thing in a busy picture, it's about finding Waldo, stuff like that. But THIS... this tells a story, and you have to keep reading it to get the full picture.

The title is perfect.

[–]Solivaga 64 points65 points ago

Absolutely - actually a very moving new angle of a snapshot in time we all know well, but the title of this thread does it a disservice.

[–]tokenpoke 316 points317 points ago*

tiananmen square tank guy on the left in the background. famous for this picture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

Edit: To be honest I have no idea why I linked the wiki, yeah of course I know deathbytray knows who it is in the pic. I'm just super-duper stoned, surfin reddit and rockin some deadmau5 about to go do laundry and ladder some sc2. Arent I just the p3rfect reddit demographical individual?

[–][deleted] 92 points93 points ago

Little is publicly known of the man's identity.

One party member was quoted as saying, "We can’t find him. We got his name from journalists. We have checked through computers but can’t find him among the dead or among those in prison."

If this is true that's pretty crazy imo, a nationally infamous person that can't be found by his own government? Anyways, I suspect he is/was aware of the picture given its notoriety, that might be a good reason to go into hiding from the PLA.

EDIT: formatting

[–]Suddenly_Something 365 points366 points ago

AMA Request: Tienanmen square tank guy

[–]HeyCarpy 354 points355 points ago

That would be the single greatest accomplishment that this website could ever hope for.

[–]regisfrost 184 points185 points ago

I would rank it slightly below getting a second season of Firefly.

[–]Gluverty 138 points139 points ago

higher probability that we'll find Tank Guy

[–]kryonik 5 points6 points ago

How would he verify? Link to his @totallynotthetankguy twitter account?

[–]irawwwr 88 points89 points ago

Nice try, Chinese government

[–]stanfan114 116 points117 points ago

He is currently on tour with the "Bodies" exhibition.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points ago

Seriously.

[–]CowOfSteel 78 points79 points ago

It's my understanding there's actually a really good chance he doesn't know of his fame. The picture is notorious outside of China, but inside the country itself it's been very well censored.

[–]Bored_At_Night 113 points114 points ago

There's an even better chance he's been dead since shortly after that picture.

[–]cal679 45 points46 points ago

Guy stands up to oppressive regime, is never heard from again. Hmmm, is it possible the Chinese government would do something as shady as killing a guy then cover it up? Seriously, it's nice to think that he escaped prison or even the country, but this guy is dead.

[–]allday0212 16 points17 points ago

I tend to agree with you, an easy disappearance to cover up for an anonymous man.

[–]Irishfury86 10 points11 points ago

The Chinese publicly condemned and arrested many of the protesters and their leaders. They had no reason to kill this one anonymously when they were so public with the other arrests.

[–]buzzkill_aldrin 18 points19 points ago

There's no reason to give a name to a face when there isn't a face to begin with.

[–]laidbackduck 13 points14 points ago

I agree. Whenever I visit China (outside of HK/Macau), the tour guide always mentions that we are not to talk about Tienanmen Square.

My relatives in China only started hearing about this in the past decade or so. Granted, they aren't exactly the most technological...

[–]Banaam 13 points14 points ago

My wife has a friend (both Chinese) who asked me to screen shot websites about Tiananmen and send them to him so he could learn about it. Brave man him.

[–]seamus_archer 24 points25 points ago

More likely that they killed him in prison. To this day, most younger Chinese people have no idea this happened.

EDIT: maybe I should read the wiki article....

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

I actually think the reason his identity is gone is because the Chinese government got rid of him. They've denied the Tianenmen Square incident as well so I wouldn't be surprised.

[–]CheesedMyself 7 points8 points ago

Time Traveler.

[–]cumberland 45 points46 points ago

am i the only one who looked for Leonardo Dicaprio

[–]Sixpints 22 points23 points ago

I thought the dude on the left foreground looked like Leo's strut and that that was the joke.

[–]bergermeister 10 points11 points ago

Ditto.

[–]frontbummer 40 points41 points ago

I was looking for a black man.

[–]threading 4 points5 points ago

it deserves better than a title

How about; A very brave Chinese man is about to write history.

[–]egmou 131 points132 points ago

ridiculously photogenic asian guy?

[–]_performer 143 points144 points ago

shiver down the back of my neck....man, that guy had guts! I am always affected by seeing the image of him in front of the tanks. I dream that I could be that brave, but more likely my self preservation would kick in and i would be running away like these guys.

[–]ablebodiedmango 124 points125 points ago

I think this new photo adds that more to the legend. You can see how long he must have been standing there before the tanks actually got to him. The man was staring down a column of tanks for well over a few minutes. Just incredible.

If he's still alive out there, or even if he isn't, here's to you Tank Man.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points ago

That's what I keep thinking as I look at this. Those things aren't fast... He stood there like he had grapefruit sized adamantium balls. Epic tank man is literally epic.

[–]Blitza001 18 points19 points ago

actually those tanks could move well into the 40mph, most tanks are quicker then you think.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points ago

Ah, yeah you are right, I meant that they weren't actually moving fast in this case. They're crawling along, if you've seen the video. It would have been a loooooong time to stand there, in the moment.

[–]liberal_texan 16 points17 points ago

All by himself, confronting not just the tanks but the political machine behind them, he knew he would not survive the encounter. You have to wonder if he was cognizant of the powerful statement he was making, or if he was just trying to end it all.

[–]menomenaa 51 points52 points ago

It's so fascinating to see such a significant, important protest that wasn't pre-meditated by revolutionaries or even just civilians that have decided beforehand on a plan of action. His bags indicate that he was literally just planning on waking up that day and going through it with normalcy, and finally said fuck it when he saw the tanks. That's an intense bravery, to me. Spontaneous, unwavering bravery.

[–]WhatFreshHell 5 points6 points ago

Very well said!

[–]gadabyte 1102 points1103 points ago*

looks like it might be tank man to the left of the front end loader?

where'd you find this?

[–]iamadogwhatisthis 143 points144 points ago

The source is Terril Jones out front of the Beijing Hotel using a Nikon F-801 SLR.

The photo was first published online with the New York Times here: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/behind-the-scenes-a-new-angle-on-history/

He is one of supposedly 5 photographers to have taken pictures of the incident.

[–]DrSandwich 23 points24 points ago

Where are the other 4?

[–]roundjericho 44 points45 points ago

[–]fillari 466 points467 points ago

yes thats Tienanmen square (tank guy)

[–]littlehead 315 points316 points ago

I got the chills when I saw it. That image always gets me.

[–]Lvl_6_Squirtle 339 points340 points ago*

Seeing him in a background of OP's picture gave me a lot of chills.

Before seeing the video, I thought all that existed of the event was a picture. Seeing him flail his arm was just... so brave. I mean it.

[–]Eyedoless 20 points21 points ago

I've always wanted to know, what happened after this video? It always cuts. Did he get trampled? Did they turn back? Did he run off?

[–]dracdliw 20 points21 points ago

This video shows the rest. They were said to be citizens but it's most likely guards. As you can see they are both in blue.

[–]Centy 26 points27 points ago

His friends/concerned strangers came to rush him away from the tanks.

[–]Abaddon314159 37 points38 points ago

Or plain clothes government men took him away. Impossible to know which.

[–]Centy 4 points5 points ago

Yes that is also equally possible. I think I just prefer the idea it was not.

[–]goretooth 5 points6 points ago

Iirc the man disappeared. If he made himself scarce and never brought it up (wise) or of he "got" disappeared nobody knows.

[–]Jeterson 190 points191 points ago

Youtube awesomeness:

He stood up to that tank for America... IN CHINA

[–][deleted] 102 points103 points ago

Well look at you, not taking a screenshot and making a link-based post out of it. I wondered if anyone like you existed.

[–]sb3hxsb50 27 points28 points ago

I actually cry every time, you sons of bitches.

[–]maruraba 20 points21 points ago

YOU

SHALL NOT

PASS

[–]hobofats 20 points21 points ago

this photo was released in 2009 by the Associated Press. more info here

[–]irish711 30 points31 points ago

I got that part pretty quick, but I was still waiting to "see it". I thought he had shopped in Leo DiCaprio somewhere.

[–]shoulderdestruction 6 points7 points ago

[–]nexas123[S] 82 points83 points ago

i just had it lying around in my old HDD

[–]AmigaAllstar 33 points34 points ago

Well, thanks for sharing. I've certainly never seen this before, and it seems a lot of others haven't, either.

I wonder how many other photos are out there of famous scenes from a different angle.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]TheCruise 55 points56 points ago

Well, in internet time that is. It was only released in 2009.

[–]ErrorlessGnome 436 points437 points ago

this less of a "when you see it" and more of a "if you know historical photographs you will be surprised to see this image taken mere seconds before a more famous photograph you know of"

[–]biggbuckz 20 points21 points ago

For whatever reason I always assumed that the tanks were moving slowly, and he just walked out in front of them... this picture shows how he must have stood there for a much longer amount of time than I thought. I can't even imagine the thoughts going through his head.

[–]Litheran 4 points5 points ago

From another perspective. I've always wondered what the tank crew was thinking at that moment. The tanks did stop and he wasn't executed on the spot. At the time this happened the army had already begun their massacre in the city. But somehow this guy was impressive and brave enough to get the soldiers to (what I presume at least) disobey their orders. And that was a heroic act in itself at those times in China.

[–]toothpic_vic 72 points73 points ago

That's why this image makes you think for a change.

[–]ErrorlessGnome 31 points32 points ago

Which is why I like it.

[–]Uranus_Hz 107 points108 points ago

Twice today I have clicked a 'when you see it post' and not seen a penis or a black guy. This is a good thing.

[–]lw421 13 points14 points ago

This is a great article with several different angles of Tank Man, and the accounts of the photographers who took them.

[–]shaqfan99 69 points70 points ago

I seriously hope people upvote this link. You can actually watch it for free here too.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/

[–]TehKrush 11 points12 points ago

[–]alphanaut 11 points12 points ago

Full version (wider angle, not cropped) of this picture and comments by the photographer Terril Jones:

http://www.pomona.edu/news/2009/06/terril-jones-photograph-of-tianenmen-square-20-years-later.aspx

[–]Kimano 23 points24 points ago

[–]mindrag 25 points26 points ago

Heh...stankman...

I'll show myself out.

[–]Shazambom 34 points35 points ago

[–]Adenylyl 92 points93 points ago

No one else saw the Ridiculously Photogenic Asian to the left?

[–]helicalhell 30 points31 points ago

Not when Ridiculously historic guy is in the background about to do his deed. No surprises there.

[–]appel 10 points11 points ago

Never before published, Terril Jones's view of Changan Avenue in Beijing on June 5, 1989, shows "tank man," in the distance at left, framed by two tree trunks, on the verge of his confrontation with the tanks in the distance at right.

Source: lens.blogs.nytimes.com

Amazing shot.

[–]random123456789 6 points7 points ago

Did some reading. This is the article from the photographer that took this photo. From 2009.

[–]huckstah 5 points6 points ago

Ok it's time to take on the miserable role of Captain Obvious, since 3/4's of the people commenting still dont get the picture. Hopefully this pic, taken from another angle, will help explain: http://i.imgur.com/0sTiZ.jpg

Get it?

[–]red321red321 49 points50 points ago

i was watching a documentary on the tankman/tianenmen square and it's scary how afraid the chinese are of their government. china's censored all mentionings of the incident although some people know about it and keep quiet so that they won't be hauled off to god knows where by the government. 5 chinese university students were interviewed about the tankman and were shown the tankman picture and all of but one of them had no idea what the picture meant, where it was taken and what was going on except for one of them who was too scared to admit he knew but the microphones caught him whispering to the girl next to him '1989'.

[–]goatworship 25 points26 points ago

I can't even imagine what that would be like. To be afraid that your own government will haul you away for having forbidden knowledge of an incident the whole rest of the world knows about.

[–]windchime159 9 points10 points ago

Considering how drastic their methods of suppressing information are I would say its more accurate to say Its pretty amazing how scared the Chinese Government is of its own people.

[–]sudstah 29 points30 points ago

For those of us who have less time to try and guess what the hell everyone is talking about. The picture is about the man carrying the bags, he is a random guy who was in an historic picture of a guy stood in front of a line of tanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrQqDqOx3KY video

[–]odonim 25 points26 points ago

This is a fantastic post, interesting content I have never seen before. A refreshing break from the repost onslaught or [fixed] posts.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]Dutchtrees 36 points37 points ago

Thought this was the "when you see it" :(

[–]tt_bee 10 points11 points ago

Whenever I see a "when you see it" post and I can't figure out what it is, I get nervous about it really being a .gif and close the tab.

[–]nbrosas 6 points7 points ago

Probably too late to the comvo but I'll drop my two cents here... It is so cool to see historical pictures like this from a different angle because now a days, almost any big event is captured by a bunch of people on their smart phones and uploaded right away to twitter or the world I see. It makes a lot of photos less powerful, in away. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but I find it interesting how technology has definitely changed how events are portrayed and captured.

[–]Rosetti 3 points4 points ago

Great picture. The thing I always loved about the original picture was that this dude appears to have his shopping with him. Like he didn't plan to do that, he was just out and about and upon seeing what was happening knew he had to intervene.

[–]YourCurvyGirlfriend 2 points3 points ago

I think a series of photos where it's a different angle on a scene from a famous photograph would be just really great.

[–]dactyif 3 points4 points ago

We all forget it was also the courage of the tank driver for stopping and recognizing a fellow human being.

[–]nmoyer12 3 points4 points ago

am i the only one that took forever to figure out this was tank man?

[–]confuzD 3 points4 points ago

Tank you very much.