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I always thought a lot of old-fashioned duels would've ended this way (gifs.gifbin.com)

submitted ago by BrazilianRider

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[–]torville 131 points132 points ago

Sketchy Duel

[–]sexkills 39 points40 points ago

Better with sound

[–]x755x 2 points3 points ago

Just add it to the gif

[–]Joseph445 16 points17 points ago

A gif with sound is called a video.

[–]minorDemocritus 10 points11 points ago

WAY better with sound. Did not even realize there was a piano.

[–]NULLACCOUNT 178 points179 points ago

I think that is the way a lot of old-fashioned duels ended. Or rather, it being over after neither party was hit (also, they didn't have clips or magazines so they would have to reload between each shot).

"Duels were fought not so much to kill the opponent as to gain "satisfaction", that is, to restore one's honour by demonstrating a willingness to risk one's life for it,"

"In the case of pistol duels, each party would fire one shot. If neither man was hit and if the challenger stated that he was satisfied, the duel would be declared over. If the challenger was not satisfied, a pistol duel could continue until one man was wounded or killed, but to have more than three exchanges of fire was considered barbaric and, on the rare occasion that no hits were achieved, somewhat ridiculous."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel

[–]ForgettableUsername 2 points3 points ago

Mark Twain wrote a brilliant satire about French dueling in particular that addresses this sort of thing.

[–]sharmaniac 1 point2 points ago

Thanks for the link, I used to love this bit.

[–]neodiogenes 27 points28 points ago

It should be noted that the men who were in a social position likely to require them to face a duel, probably made a habit to practice with those pistols, at least until they could confidently hit a man-sized target at 20 paces.

[–]108241 104 points105 points ago*

It should be noted, that their pistols were not accurate enough to confidently hit a man sized target at 20 paces, no matter how much you practiced.

Edit: source

The chance of dying in a pistol duel was relatively slim. Flintlocks often misfired. And even in the hands of an experienced shooter, accuracy was difficult.

[–]Lampmonster1 23 points24 points ago

The also had straight bores and a heavy trigger (Dueling pistols were often made with purposely heavy trigger pulls), both making it even harder to actually hit anything.

[–]Pinslate 28 points29 points ago

I look at duels more of a "I have a large sack, do you?" kind of thing.

[–]Bashasaurus 20 points21 points ago

kind of odd to think that a duel was actually more of a team based game of russian roulette

[–]IrritableGourmet 1 point2 points ago

I was just thinking that if people today wanted to duel, but have the same likelihood of dying as back then, they can just use revolvers with only one bullet in a random barrel. Only a 1 in 6 chance of actually firing, and even then you might not hit.

[–]neodiogenes 2 points3 points ago

Actually if you read the full article, the author gives numerous examples of duelists wounding or killing their opponents. Despite (obvious) popular opinion, it's more likely that it was difficult for people to accurately aim a pistol without sights and under extreme pressure, rather than the firearms being especially inaccurate, at least at short range.

Also this. Kid has little trouble hitting a basketball-sized target at around 30 yds.

[–]IMongoose 12 points13 points ago

No, this was before rifling was in pistols. The bullets were also round. Add that to short barrels and those guns were incredibly inaccurate. This is why armies would line up and do volleys, the guns were shit for accuracy. This is also why WWI was a slaughter, guns got much more accurate and the strategies did not change.

[–]sharmaniac 1 point2 points ago

Actually, apparently there are country to country differences in terms of pistols etc. Mark Twain mentions that French pistols were extremely inaccurate compared to American ones, for example. (he also mocks much of French 'duelling' at the same point).

[–]ObidiahWTFJerwalk 6 points7 points ago

But does he have the cast iron cajones to be that accurate while someone else is firing another pistol at him?

[–]neodiogenes 5 points6 points ago

Well, that's the whole point of the duel, isn't it?

[–]Shoola 1 point2 points ago

So apparently Dwight Shrute has younger brother here.

[–]tr77 0 points1 point ago

That doesn't really prove that they were mechanically accurate. Even if they were wildly inaccurate, some people would still get lucky shots. According to the guy in your video, that pistol is "very, very accurate for a flintlock" and it appears to have benefited from modern manufacturing techniques.

[–]neodiogenes 2 points3 points ago

appears to have benefited from modern manufacturing techniques

Oh, no doubt. On the other hand, pistols for dueling were often hand-crafted masterpieces constructed with the best techniques available at the time. Also, the people who used them were aware of the various factors that could throw off a shot, and could discuss the benefits and drawbacks of certain elements (shot weight, number of grains of gunpowder, etc) the way you or I could discuss something like video games or cars.

The point of the video is to show that a well-manufactured smoothbore can fire accurately, thus disproving the popular conception on Reddit that a round, non-rifled shot, once it left the barrel, would more often than not end up turning ninety degrees and heading down to 7-11 for a slurpee. As I mentioned elsewhere, I thought the same at first, but decided to check available sources before repeating "knowledge" obtained from ignorance.

Of course the best thing would to fire a smoothbore dueling pistol myself, so as to speak from direct experience. I'll keep my eyes open for the opportunity and let you know.

[–]T2112 0 points1 point ago

Am I the only one who can aim a dueling pistol? Friend of mine bought replicas off Dixie gun works and i found their design easier at times.

[–]SassyMoron 0 points1 point ago

There's a wonderful book called "With Musket, Cannon And Sword: Battle Tactics Of Napoleon And His Enemies" that explains why marching in a massed formation directly at a line of enemy troops at the quickstep (120 paces per minute) was actually perfectly rational behavior, up until the 1820's or so at least, and it's because of what you just said. Smooth bore muskets were so inaccurate and took so long to load, that if everyone just kept their heads and marched steady, the line would only have to endure 2 or 3 wildly inaccurate volleys before reaching the enemy. Keeping the troops massed together (in line or attack column a la Napolean), marching in step to a cadence, kept the troops steady, and meant the final rush would concentrate enough fighters in the same place at the same time to break the enemy line. In fact, "With Musket . . ." claims that the English cheer ("hip, hip, hooray" 3 times) was essentially a major tehcnological advantage over their adversaries (who would just shout "hooray!" all together) because it was call and response (officer says "hip, hip," men say "hooray"), enabling the officers to rally their men again once they'd been broken. Another major English tactical refinement was the "leveling" of muskets: literally, that you were to ensure your rifle was level with that of the man to your right, who ultimately was keying off a sharp shooter placed at the fire right end of the line, so that the volley would have a better chance of being massed in one place once fired, and at least take out a few people.

tl;dr "With Musket, Cannon And Sword: Battle Tactics Of Napoleon And His Enemies" is an awesome book, you should read it.

[–]SetToGeek 13 points14 points ago

This is pre-rifling. The shot would NOT fly straight--once it hit the air it was anyone's guess what angle it'd take. The gyroscopic motion caused by rifling does a lot to keep a bullet straight.

[–]neodiogenes 1 point2 points ago

There are communities of people dedicated to shooting with smoothbore firearms. Please do your own searches, but from what I've read it would seem many of these weapons are accurate to at least 30 yds.

Of course most of these are with modern replicas, but again from what I've read these communities are pretty dedicated to using historically authentic techniques to mold the lead balls and measure the powder.

[–]SetToGeek 4 points5 points ago

If they were capable of accuracy back at those times the British would not have stood in a line in the open. It would have been complete suicide.

There is a reason death rates in wars went up astronomically after rifling. You suddenly could hit your target.

[–]Mini-Marine 3 points4 points ago

Armies tended to engage at ranges a bit longer than 20 paces, yes the guns were inaccurate, but they weren't THAT inaccurate.

[–]neodiogenes 3 points4 points ago

Initially I thought the same as you, but before I posted I checked around to see what kind of evidence there was for the accuracy of smoothbore firearms. As I said, please do your own research, but there are any number of videos of people shooting with replica firearms and hitting targets (most of the time) up to 100 yards away. Also historical accounts confirm the smoothbore musket was accurate to around the same distance.

By the way they had rifled barrels at the time of the American Revolution. American sharpshooters were legendary for taking out high-ranking British targets at 500 yards or more, using the Kentucky long rifle. The reason they didn't use them for line infantry was that the smoothbore musket could be reloaded more quickly, didn't have to be cleaned as often, and could be produced in greater numbers. So it was a tradeoff.

[–]DehCheezburgah 2 points3 points ago

The problem was, that the pistols were erroneous by nature. Practice can not account for flaws that leave the trajectory of a projectile erratic. While in theory, practice "makes perfect", the fact is that you wouldn't make an impact on how well you would do in the duel.

[–]Butch_Magnus 1 point2 points ago

Depending on the period, a lot of the time it was actually considered a sign of poor skill to kill your opponent. Most of the time duelling was not used as a way to legally kill a man, just a way to show that you are willing to put yourself at risk to defend your name.

[–]aVictorianGentleman 1 point2 points ago

Yes but did they aim for centre of mass or to wound? I suppose it would have been relative to each man's personal morality.

[–]ExK4 21 points22 points ago

You can't "aim to wound" with a flintlock.

[–]AbasementPark 24 points25 points ago

Yeah you can! The trick is to aim to kill.

[–]Bronan_the_Brobarian 12 points13 points ago

Which you can't do with a flintlock

[–]Ampersamd 6 points7 points ago

Aim at something off in the distance.

[–]biggmclargehuge 4 points5 points ago

arbitrarily point the gun at anything

[–]Siethron 2 points3 points ago

No wait don't! someone might get hurt by you aiming 180 degrees the wrong direction.

[–]bigsol81 1 point2 points ago

Eh, it's more the smoothbore barrel than the firing mechanism itself, though flintlocks were notoriously slow to fire, sometimes taking up to half a second after the flint dropped to actually discharge, if they did at all.

[–]AsDevilsRun 1 point2 points ago

You don't really do that with any firearm...or, at least, you shouldn't.

[–]MrE2Me 1 point2 points ago

Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel.

Hamiltons shot actually missed Burr's head and hit a tree branch.

If a duelist decided not to aim at his opponent there was a well-known procedure, available to everyone involved, for doing so. According to Freeman, Hamilton apparently did not follow this procedure; if he had, Burr might have followed suit, and Hamilton's death might have been avoided. It was a matter of honor among gentlemen to follow these rules. Because of the high incidence of septicemia and death resulting from torso wounds, a high percentage of duels employed this procedure of throwing away fire.[82] Years later, when told that Hamilton may have misled him at the duel, the ever-laconic Burr replied, "Contemptible, if true.">

[–]worthBak 53 points54 points ago

I'm pretty sure that in Charleston, SC, dueling became such a public hazard that they actually made it legal, but simply mandated that duels only occur on a set of narrow, walled alley ways throughout the city. That way, dramatically smaller crowds would be attracted (and potentially injured) because the only place to watch would be behind the duelers, and hence directly in the line of fire.

Good example of legalizing and regulating a dangerous activity in order to mediate its effects on society at large.

[–]xbrand2 23 points24 points ago

Is it still legal? Need to know before going to work tomorrow.

[–]Lampmonster1 8 points9 points ago

There's a list somewhere of all the states that have never made dueling illegal. I know FL and IL are on it. They'd just find something else to charge you with. Discharging a firearm in a city for one.

[–]x755x 19 points20 points ago

They'd just find something else to charge you with. Discharging a firearm in a city for one.

Murder, maybe.

[–]Lampmonster1 5 points6 points ago

They might try, but then they might not. If the opponent entered into a duel, and there is no specific law against dueling, a jury might not see it as murder.

[–]Graph1te 0 points1 point ago

interesting...

[–]Butch_Magnus 0 points1 point ago

Manslaughter at least. Although one could go for the jury nullification approach. I personally would have trouble sending a man to jail if the defense did a proper job of showing consent.

[–]xbrand2 5 points6 points ago

You don't say.

[–]Pinslate 1 point2 points ago

In the news tonight a man name xbrand2 was arrested for trying to start a duel with a cowworker. More on this story after sports.

[–]pizzabash 4 points5 points ago

wait i can duel some one in illinois? BRB

[–]Lampmonster1 0 points1 point ago

I want to watch!

[–]pizzabash 0 points1 point ago

fine it'll cost 20 karma to get in

[–]Lampmonster1 0 points1 point ago

Sweet, I think I can swing that.

[–]pizzabash 0 points1 point ago

yeah i think you have just enough

[–]LincolnSt 1 point2 points ago

Charleston has so many cool stories.

[–]homewrddeer 0 points1 point ago

heh, I was born there... hell yea, charleston.

[–]PerogiXW 21 points22 points ago

False.

All duels ended like this.

[–]Johnny_Motion 4 points5 points ago

Truly awesome.

[–]Glyph_ 3 points4 points ago

Sometimes I wish what I'd find some links to relevant and excitingly good content when casually reading random coments on a random reddit thread. I was not disappointed to click this link, thank you good sir.

[–]babycats 14 points15 points ago

Where is this from?

[–]amissio 2 points3 points ago

Gaaah - this looks SO familiar.

[–]TheMeaning0fLife 28 points29 points ago

Sketchy Duel. Their other things are great as well.

My personal favourite.

[–]bustinjustin 8 points9 points ago

This one cracked me up the most.

[–]amissio 0 points1 point ago

THANK YOU!!!

[–]Chundlebug 9 points10 points ago

I once made the mistake of opining in an English class that dueling pistols were notoriously inaccurate, based on the fact that I heard someone say so in a movie (I know, I'm an ass). Anyway, my very Scottish, dry-as-dirt professor said "And have you fired many dueling pistols, Mr. Chundlebug?" No, I hadn't - but it turns out he had (I didn't ask under what circumstances...) and he said they were actually pretty accurate. I rarely offered my dumb opinions after that.

[–]elbenji 5 points6 points ago

Even though you were the one that was right.

They WERE really terribly inaccurate.

[–]ClassyAsACastle 3 points4 points ago*

Not at dueling range. Other comments in this thread have covered the reasons for so many misses in duels -- it was not the weapons.

$300 will get you a flintlock and shooting supplies, you should try it sometime. It's fun, and you can get pretty decent groupings at 25 yards with a little practice.

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

Well damn.

I've shot off old antiques and found them hard for distance and movement so I wouldn't mind trying it.

[–]neodiogenes 1 point2 points ago

Good thing you didn't call him a horse's ass in front of the entire class. Then he would have been forced to gleefully demand satisfaction ...

... and you could have picked dueling sabers.

[–]summerteeth 3 points4 points ago

I choose .... the banjo!

[–]Chundlebug 1 point2 points ago

Okay, uh, claymore!

Wait!....shit.

[–]JRutterbush 0 points1 point ago

I'm sure he used modern dueling pistols, yeah. But unless they were crafted in the exact same way as the traditional ones used in actual duels, he had no more room to talk than you did. And the countless accounts of duels with neither party taking a single hit would lend more credence to your story than to his.

[–]Chundlebug 1 point2 points ago*

He did make clear they were authentic.

I really don't know what the final word on their accuracy is, but I think we need to take into account the situation of the duel if we are going to use duel results as our guide. This was a situation where, one would think, one wouldn't have time to aim- you turned, got a quick bearing, then shot and hoped for the best. A good duelist, I imagine, would have the presence of mind to aim, but this couldn't have been true for everybody. So there must be a difference between accuracy in dueling and accuracy in aim-and-shoot.

I can't believe that, 15 years or so later, I find myself once again talking out of my ass about dueling pistol accuracy.

edit- as I'm reading up on it a bit, it seems that aiming was considered "ungentlemanly." You were supposed to just turn and shoot.

[–]ClassyAsACastle 2 points3 points ago

Very frequently people deloped or "threw away" their shots -- intentionally missing. People don't like killing people. I hate to suggest reading a book as opposed to digging up a more concise source, but, if this stuff at all interests you On Killing will make for a fun read.

[–]angrystuff 0 points1 point ago

How many gun fights (with modern weapons) are resolved with a single shot?

[–]MrE2Me 0 points1 point ago

In movies, its at least a 1000 to 1 ratio of hitting someone.

[–]JRutterbush 0 points1 point ago

There's a difference between a gunfight and a duel. Most duels would be resolved with a single shot, whether anybody got hit or not. But with modern guns, the accuracy in a traditional duel would make it much easier to get a hit. You don't have to kill the guy unless you're really pissed at him.

[–]logancook44 5 points6 points ago

As a relative of Alexander Hamilton, screw you Aaron Burr.

[–]MrE2Me 1 point2 points ago

If a duelist decided not to aim at his opponent there was a well-known procedure, available to everyone involved, for doing so. According to Freeman, Hamilton apparently did not follow this procedure; if he had, Burr might have followed suit, and Hamilton's death might have been avoided. It was a matter of honor among gentlemen to follow these rules. Because of the high incidence of septicemia and death resulting from torso wounds, a high percentage of duels employed this procedure of throwing away fire.[82] Years later, when told that Hamilton may have misled him at the duel, the ever-laconic Burr replied, "Contemptible, if true."

[–]aterlumen 0 points1 point ago

It's a very murky story. Other sources say that no one knew who shot first, or that Hamilton's shot was simply a reflex after he was struck. Impossible to say now.

[–]logancook44 0 points1 point ago

Some sources said Hamilton purposefully didn't fire his weapon, some sources say Hamilton shot into the air (the story I believe), some say it was a fair duel in which Hamilton missed and Burr hit.

[–]Lost_Once 5 points6 points ago

Almost as bad as my shot on COD :(

[–]teuast 6 points7 points ago

And mine on TF2.

[–]JRutterbush -1 points0 points ago

That's why I focus on Ballistic Knives and Tomahawks. I use a shotgun as my "backup weapon". Ghost Pro and Ninja Pro, and my favorite pastime is following directly behind a guy for a good five minutes before gutting him. Either that, or follow him until he has an ally in his sights, then killing him.

[–]packnslip 1 point2 points ago

Favorite gif on the internet

[–]echong112 1 point2 points ago

reminds me of war in general. When two rich men fight, many people die before they end up settling with slap fights that would have solved everything in the first place.

[–]Waxy_OConnor 1 point2 points ago

"I give you one last chance to rescind your insult of calling me a common dandy!"

[–]CoolBowtie 1 point2 points ago

That's how I feel whenever I play Halo online.

[–]Uranus_Hz 1 point2 points ago

Woody Allen did it

[–]samwitch645 0 points1 point ago

Someone has terrible aim...

[–]JJinVenice 0 points1 point ago

That is the most entertaining little GIF I've seen in quite a while.

[–]CaptainCoolBreeze 0 points1 point ago

For some reason every time I watch this clip i hear old fashioned music playing in my head, am i goin mad :S

[–]james9075 0 points1 point ago

actually going back to back and taking paces was a french thing. in 'merica the men each would've had one shot and they would've faced each other at 20 paces. it would be arranged and anyone that wanted to see it would come. and you weren't allowed to move until the other person had fired.

[–]Tipper213 0 points1 point ago

Most of the time when they had duels, they didn't shoot at each other; they shot at the ground and whoever shot first was the one who was honored.

[–]CaveatLusor 0 points1 point ago

There was a period of time where the seconds only loaded one pistol, then you stood at point blank range and each pulled the trigger, just to avoid that sort of thing

[–]Fatumsch 0 points1 point ago

Brilliant.

[–]irving_zissmann 0 points1 point ago

TD;DW

[–]norrisiv 0 points1 point ago

Clicking "Play in reverse" was one of the better decisions I've made tonight.

[–]Canopener23 0 points1 point ago

Here's the GIF by itself without the difficulty.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

I am convinced our forefathers were insane.

[–]FrontPageFirstTry 0 points1 point ago

meanwhile while this was loading....

[–]TheW0rld1sMyCanvas 0 points1 point ago

This is my favorite gif.

[–]ipompa 0 points1 point ago

Im tired of see that gif everytime.

[–]likesbiglabia 0 points1 point ago

So, when will this be a repost...

[–]AlvinIris 0 points1 point ago

who made this? the style is brilliant. reminds me of the tale of the three brothers from deathly hallows pt 1

[–]GoLightLady 0 points1 point ago

Ok my favorite gif. Never don't like seeing it reposted. :)

[–]Canitrollyou 0 points1 point ago

repost

[–]groovy_gary 0 points1 point ago

http://rgifs.gifbin.com/102011/1319051824_gentlemens_duel.gif

direct link to gif, seeing as RES didn't load it properly for me

[–]psychroclasm 0 points1 point ago

I fully expected them to ditch the guns and book it after the first shot.

[–]kolm 0 points1 point ago

This would have been about 27.412 times better if it had ended after the first shot.

[–]smellypants 0 points1 point ago

Jesus, that website is disgustingly cluttered

[–]mistamashaa 0 points1 point ago

TIL seconds often disagreed and ended up engaging in the gunplay themselves, standing at right angles to the principals, forming a quadrilateral of death. source

[–]Ilikepineapplez 0 points1 point ago

Why was there a piano in the tree? O_o

[–]Tyler114 0 points1 point ago

Wouldn't they have to reload after every shot?

[–]tolstoyleo 0 points1 point ago

I own the DVD that this is on, I believe it's on the animation show or possibly pixar's animated shorts.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]implicate 1 point2 points ago

I guess I'll be the first one to point out that you have posted reposts as well (however a lot of the content you have posted is awesome).

[–]Aston_Martini 0 points1 point ago

Is your name in reference to the amount of karma you are intending to obtain with this comment?

[–]panzerkampfwagen 0 points1 point ago

Most of the time no one was hit because the guns were so crap that you would be lucky to hit a house at that distance let alone a person.

[–]pics-or-didnt-happen -3 points-2 points ago

Pistols of the day were famously inaccurate. Hence the rule of ten paces. Picture yourself standing twenty paces away from someone else. You both turn and fire and you both miss. Then you reload, redo the pacing and fire again, and both miss.

You'd have been better off with a bow and single arrow.

[–]debeauds 0 points1 point ago

You sir are a buzz kill

[–]vers_le_haut_bateau -1 points0 points ago

Relevant French yet understandable video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31pr9_jamel-show-duel_fun

[–]darkheart86 -1 points0 points ago

Like a Sir.

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