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Neil deGrasse Tyson absolutely slamming intelligent design. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 3 months ago by SuperWalter
[–][deleted] 75 points76 points77 points 3 months ago*
repost (like the 1337th), but always worth a chuckle! i rarely chuckle in front of my monitor.
[–]pornplexed 47 points48 points49 points 3 months ago
The tears of theists having their beliefs smashed by Neil leGrasse Tyson are like the semen coming out of the penis of logic and reason.
[–]09112001 35 points36 points37 points 3 months ago
..backs away slowly
[–]fodrox04 24 points25 points26 points 3 months ago
I put on my robe and wizard hat
[–]rikker_ 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
I will never not upvote this reference.
[–]udbluehens 18 points19 points20 points 3 months ago
I will thrust my penis of logic into the asshole of ignorance. -- Neil Degrasse Tyson
[–]okmkz 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
We try not to sexualize him.
[–]adamflint 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
He he he, no we don't.
[–]onlynickleft 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
You don't have to be a theist to believe in intelligent design:
BEN STEIN: What do you think is the possibility that Intelligent Design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics or in evolution?
DAWKINS: Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now, um, now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer.
Taken from a documentary called "Expelled"
[–]TheWanderingJew 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
I'd be wary of taking pretty much anything from Expelled. The extent to which it's the case is debatable. But there's a whole lot of lies and "creative editing" involved with it.
[–]onlynickleft 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Granted but this is a direct response to a question. Nothing has been altered or taken out of context.
[–]Malnilion 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I think the main issue with Intelligent Design is that it promotes the belief that whether evolution by natural selection occurs or not, there is an unseen hand guiding it. What you have cited is merely a hypothetical argument against spontaneous biogenesis on this planet, not an argument for ID. It's a common mistake, though. A lot of people (particularly creationists) confuse evolution, which describes a process by which speciation occurs, with biogenesis, which is concerned with the origin of living cells.
I did no such thing. Dawkins made a very simpe statement that you're over-complicating with semantics. He's simply saying that it's highly probable that another incredibly advanced civilization might have seeded the Earth with life. If that were the case, then the likelihood of that same species "guiding our evolution" along is also very high.
I'm also assuming that we're well past the "does intelligent extraterrestrial life exist" argument seeing as probability suggests that it does in our galaxy, let alone the entire universe. The resulting numbers are also based on the assumption that these beings are carbon based (the majority of life on Earth is carbon based). The odds would increase dramatically if we were to assume that perhaps these beings could be fluorine or even arsenic based. It's entirely possible. Talk about a tangent. Sorry.
[–]Calsendon 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
He did not say that it was highly probable; he said it was a possibility.
Much like the big bang theory only more probable mathematically.
[–]Calsendon 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago*
Not at all, 'cause there is actual evidence that suggests some sort of abrupt expansion has occured. Your "theory" is but an unsubstantiated hypothesis.
EDIT: Spelling.
"unsunstantiated hypothesis"
Perhaps but the math is sound.
How can math possibly prove - or even indicate - the existence of an intelligent species?
[–]jamesdthomson 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
When you say 'documentary', you meant to say 'thoroughly debunked propaganda piece for the ID lobby'.
Nevertheless, of course you (and Dawkins) are right that a non-supernatural intelligent designer could exist. There is zero evidence of one, and so far it looks exactly as if there wasn't one, but of course it is possible.
So no, you don't have to be a theist to believe in ID, but you do have to be irrational, ignorant, or privy to some extraordinary evidence that nobody else knows about.
You're welcome to your opinion although - like all theories - believing in ID does not make you irrational nor does it make you ignorant. Like many theories out there (e.g. big bang) it has yet to be even remotely close to proven. My point is that Dawkins said what he said. That's all.
Although I do find the theory of ET ID rather interesting when you consider how old the universe is. As a species homo sapien is roughly 200,000 years old. Look how far we've come since then. Now imagine a species that may have existed for five or even ten times that long. I think it's safe to say - extrapolating from our level of progress - that they could have easily conquered those barriers that currently travail us. Space travel over long distances, the eradication of famine, and perhaps even a victory over aging might be just as common an advancement to them as the light bulb was to us. Their innovations may have even exceeded those of our wildest imaginations; scientific barriers that we haven't even considered yet. Anyway; I digress...again. Sorry.
[–]Jejoisland 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I can assure you that no tears were shed lol. This stuff is just as entertaining for theists as it is for atheist.
[–]funsizek80 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Wow. That's poetic.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
You know he's agnostic and doesn't agree with atheists right?
[–]groovydude4911 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago
You know that most atheists are agnostic, right?
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
Lol, not in r/atheism.
[–]PeopleAreOkay 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
One can be agnostic and still claim to know for certain that particular gods do not exist.
[–]Lexiclown 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Theoretically speaking we are all agnostic. Some just like calling themselves gnostic for practical purposes such as getting laid.
[–]rmsersen 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago*
Tyson's wrong. So was Sagan. I love them both, but they are/were wrong. I know that's blasphemy here. Commence downvoting.
Atheism and agnosticism are the answers to two totally different questions. Agnosticism is not the middle of a sliding scale between theism and atheism. Somewhere along the way, people just started using agnostic because they didn't want to be lumped in with those evil baby eating atheists, and it sounds nicer, like saying crap instead of shit.
In reality, there are two questions to answer about your religious beliefs:
Do you believe it's possible for humans (not just yourself, any human) to ever know with absolute certainty whether or not a god exists? The answer to this is gnostic (I believe it's possible to know), or agnostic (I don't believe it's possible to know).
Do you personally believe in the existence of a god? The answer is theist, or maybe deist I suppose, which means you do, or atheist, you don't.
Those answers leave us with four combinations of people:
There's no such thing as an agnostic agnostic. You believe or you don't. If you're not sure, then by default that means you don't believe. Thus you are an atheist, albeit a very moderate one.
I'm betting people like Tyson (and Sagan) identify as agnostics because it is a safer, more socially acceptable option. And to call themselves atheists will just serve as a distraction, that puts them in the same group as Dawkins or Hitchens, and they don't want to focus on that.
That's understandable, but it doesn't change the fact that by every definition, they are/were agnostic atheists, which means they are/were atheists. They mislabeled themselves, either deliberately or ignorantly. Given the intelligence of both men, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say it's deliberate. But it's still technically incorrect.
EDIT: I see below me a very handy graphic that phrases question 1 in a better manner - asking if proof exists of a god, rather than "do you think it's possible to know". I've always heard the question phrased the latter way, so that's how I've always repeated it...I'll probably start using the former in the future. Doesn't alter the point of my post though.
[–]Circlejerk_Leak 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
[–]aRagingAlcoholic 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Have a drink! The answer to number 3 is "Have a drink"!!
[–]cephalgia 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
That's your answer to everything, Dad!
Actually, at one point, the answer was "abortion", but your mother wouldn't have any of it.
[–]adamflint 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Because karma is so valuable in the world!
[–]Rainieri 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
They are taking your precious internet points. Oh the humanity.
[–]lefence 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I saw you were down on internet points so I brought you back into the fray.
[–]Fractoman -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 months ago
LEET
[–]v0-z -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
Not making fun, but I chuckle/laugh/cry tears of joy from laughing so hard sometimes on my computer. I don't get how anyone can't. I guess maybe insert immature high school kid meme here.
[–]ManikArcanik 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Things that particular humans find amusing quite often elicit such symptoms. You're not confused, just overly concerned with how special you might be.
I shall dub thee "Snowflake."
[–]v0-z 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago*
I find things hilarious therefor I am concerned with how special I might be? You're like that grumpy old guy that gets mad at people for laughing and being happy. Cheer up, have a smile :)
[–]Lucho420 31 points32 points33 points 3 months ago
All hail Neil DeGrasse let us flock to him and worship him as a god!
[–]pornplexed 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
This is bravery made flesh.
[–]pablothe 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago
Relevant
[–]Kramer390 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
My favourite is that the laryngeal nerve in a giraffe takes a 15 foot detour, because at each stage of evolution, it was most 'cost-effective' to keep going with the mistake than to backtrack and correct it. Got that somewhere in The Greatest Show on Earth, by Dawkins.
[–]phackme 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
it happens in humans as well. The left laryngeal nerve goes down and around the hearts aorta before going to the larynx. The right laryngeal nerve also comes down and does a u turn somewhe in the thoracic cavity.
[–]charlestheoaf 20 points21 points22 points 3 months ago
The last one is easily explainable by the more conservative crowd: Well you aren't supposed to be having sex for fun anyway!
[–]redfox2600 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago
Then why did god make it fun? Checkmate atheist.
[–]kingme99 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Temptation, to weed out the bad.
[–]FakeLaughter 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Again, checkmate atheists.
[–]charlestheoaf 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The devil made it fun, but god put shit on it.
[–]midnightbean 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
God is a fan of Anal. And DP of course.
[–]agnostics_make_sense 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
that last one is the best sex-repellent line I've ever heard.
[–]TheBananaKing 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes
[–]Great_Zarquon 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
And Who Is This God Person Anyways?
[–]Young_Zaphod 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
And Where God Went Wrong
[–]liverleef 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Thank you. I was going to ask if anyone had any more examples.
[–]gamecritter 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago
Ok I may get buried for this... I like this guy, but there are actually a few logical flaws in his argument. For example, the appendix almost certainly once served a function, even if it doesn't now. And although it's tough to paint a pinky toenail, for anyone whose injured their pinky toe, you know it's important. It's also more efficient to have all the "plumbing" in the same general area. Bad breath's kind of a border case, but that seems like at least partially a cultural thing.
Conceivably, if everything has a purpose, then the ID argument isn't necessarily false, not in this context at least. There could be a god which created the universe according to certain processes, such as evolution. That doesn't prove the existence of a god by any means, but I'm just saying this wasn't Tyson's finest moment. He's trying to say there are counterproductive, "design flaws," but that's not actually the case. We should be critical of everyone, even internet gods.
[–]bogan 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
There are a host of other examples he could have chosen that might have better made the point, e.g., see argument from poor design. The appendix may still serve some useful function even in modern humans, though it may not be as important as it once was, e.g., see Vermiform appendix: possible functions.
But, it is likely no matter what examples he used, Young Earth Creationists would just ignore them by claiming the design flaws were evidence of humans degenerating since the "Fall" in the Garden of Eden. I.e., they'd claim humans and other creatures underwent significant design changes in just a few thousand years, though they refuse to believe evolution could be responsible for those same changes over millions of years.
[–]PenguinMonster 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
you said it better than I did.
[–]kingme99 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
But Intelligent Design claims no possibility of evolution. It claims that we did not come from apes, but from God. If you believe in the idea that an appendix can evolve from useful to useless, then that same process is in effect throughout human history.
If ID claims that God created man a certain way and then hit the "Go!" button - and then evolved from there, you would have to believe that evolution takes only 6000 years, and we know that isn't true. It takes hundreds of thousands of years to see tiny changes in our bodies. That time frame completely destroys ID.
So the point is, if you believe in ID, you cannot also believe in evolution in any form, and therefore you must answer to the "design flaws" that we do have.
[–]gamecritter 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
My understanding of ID is that it's actually a fairly diverse belief system. The 6,000 year thing you're talking about just came from some assholes who added up all the lineages in the OT; not all IDers are Christians, nor do they all subscribe to that view.
It is conceivable that some entity which exists outside of our space-time "kickstarted" a series of processes. As has been said before, the idea of a god and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
But again, the appendix and our pinky toe-nails, according to evolution, had a different function once, when we were not humans. The "non-human" part is the important part that ID doesn't subscribe to, all of them, believe humans were created by some higher power as "non-ape" humans, relatively close to how we look today. So regardless if you believe in the 6000 year story, if you believe in ID you believe that we were created as humans "first" - this is direct conflict with how we understand the human animal and evolution.
I don't speak for everyone who believes in ID, but like I say, a universe which operates according to certain rules or processes could conceivably be enacted by a god. That includes our derivation from non-human organisms. I think you're thinking of a very Judeo-Christian version of ID.
Intelligent Design is specially about how man was created, not the universe. If you believe we came from apes then you do not believe in Intelligent Design.
The main debate about this topic is whether in school we should teach "evolution" OR "Intelligence Design" - meaning, did we come from apes, or from God.
You may have a different definition of Intelligent Design than what is currently being debated, but what Neil Tyson is debating is the more common usage of ape-evolution versus God-evolution.
[–]ElAyDubleZee 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Upvote for a strong end sentence.
The best part is that the creationists can argue, logically, that since Neil himself is a product of intelligent design, according to them, his arguments lend support to their claim. Because if he was not intelligently designed, how can he be so smart to pick up those examples?
Can Neil Tyson find a flaw in his own brain, or thoughts?
[–]TheRedMambo 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Absolutely slamming?
Reread the first sentence and come back to me.
[–]stormstar1 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
My favorite example that intelligent design was unlikely with Richard Dawkins.
[–]mearvk 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
I like Neil and he's right, at least at this point, there's no empirical evidence that a strict evolutionary system isn't responsible for existence. However strictly speaking there's nothing but inductive logic holding up the big-bang theory side of the argument.
It wouldn't really prove anything but I'd like to see science create life from nothing using only what was available at the birth of the Earth. If they could create a self-replicating living organism from the conditions of early Earth I think many more people would be inclined to listen.
[–]SiouxMe 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago
The Big Bang and Evolution have nothing to do with each other. When will you people understand this?
[–]opallix 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
but it's all science
and atheism is science
or so this subreddit tells me
[–]ReDyP 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Well... the only thing we had in early earth but do not have now is time. Lots and lots and lots of time. This is likely the prohibitive material in that sort of experiment.
[–]perverse_imp 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Yeah. This guy is basically asking us to engineer millions of years of things in the lifespan of a few scientists. That's like asking a few ants to build the ISS.
[–]masterwad 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
You don't have to observe the whole process, just the moment when non-life becomes life. Just one moment.
If life is engineered by human life, that doesn't show that non-life can become life on its own, it shows that intelligence can create new life, which is what intelligent design says.
[–]sourkroutamen 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Enlighten me, a deist trying to understand this. I was under the impression that life started BOOM from a chemical reaction or whatever our best guess is. Once that life started, it would have to self-replicate or it would die and that would be the end of it, not? I get evolution, but this has nothing to do with evolution. Is it not a possibility for science to create a living single celled organism from dead matter if that is how it started? Not trying to pick a fight because a fight would end badly for me:)
[–]thepaulm 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Yes, on our planet life did start BOOM from a chemical reaction - but things sat around for a long time before it happened. I think earth was around for 4 billion years before the right reaction happened. That's a lot of time for a lot of soup to have a lot of reactions. We just haven't figured out the right sequence of reactions yet. We don't have it worked out. I would claim that just because we haven't been able to figure it out yet, that doesn't mean that a "god" did it.
Makes sense. Because it's such a complex formula, science is still far from having it all mapped out. Considering that the big bang theory has only been around for what, less than 100 years, there really hasn't been much time to look into this.
[–]masterwad 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Do you think time existed before life existed?
[–]Kroosn 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Not a problem just give me 4 billion years and I'll get back to you.
[–]mearvk 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Listen I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying in the beginning there may have been alot of waiting for exactly this sort of thing to happen and in my personal estimation it's very unlikely.
Alot is a word.
[–]austerity62 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Neil went out of his way to make a youtube video about how atheists keep claiming him even though he isn't one.
[–]Bendzbrah 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I don't like being called a human therefore I'm a unicorn. I'm a fan of Neil, but him denying that he's an atheist doesn't change the fact that he is one.
[–]wittlepup 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Ok, so did Gorgetting Sarah Marshall quote him, or the other way around?
[–]madplayshd 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
In all mammals, the nerve that goes to the voicebox travels from the brain into the chest, around the arorta and comes all the way back up again - even in a giraffe. So, in a giraffe, it travels 12 feet instead of two inches. It first evolved in fish, they had no necks.
[–]All-American-Bot 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
(For our friends outside the USA... 12 feet -> 3.7 m) - Yeehaw!
I am german, so I just use 3 ft = 1 m.
[–]woodyallin 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I'm heard Robin Williams say this a long time ago Waste disposal next to recreational facility
[–]crazy_eye 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
evolution.. can't explain that.
[–]wheest 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I'd let him slam MY intelligently designed pussy, which is actually not intelligently designed at all. I am a man.
Science!
[–]briandanger 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
This quote ends up on the front page of r/atheism at least once a week.
[–]Deaths_of_Kings 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I'm guessing he's a fan of Redd Foxx's "You Gotta Wash Your Ass." Great album.
[–]aaronweber 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Robin Williams anyone
[–]MrNickDolan 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
He says between sips of booze.
[–]ecstaticMedium 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
BUT BANANAS FIT PERFECTLY IN MY HANDS.
lalallaallalallalalacheckmateatheistslalalalalalalalalalala
[–]dambro 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
ಠ_ಠ
[–]Root-Germanicus 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
r/atheism: The only subreddit where a (nth degree) repost gets a thousand upvotes.
Yeah it's a great quote, but holy fucking shit people.
[–]yea_i_nutted 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
The last part about the "entertainment complex near thee sewer system" - I want to say that's lifted from either Robin Williams (who has done a bit on intelligent design recently), or George Carlin (who smashed theists before it was cool). But I'm not sure which it was.
[–]Lareit 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
This entire skit is from Carlin.
[–]valeyard89 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Obviously the answer to the last is a civil engineer. Who else would put a playground in the middle of a toxic waste dump?
[–]DEFENES7RA7ION 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Oh, reddit and your dick-riding of Niel Degrasse Tyson. This is far from ground-breaking and thought provoking, and aside from that it's definitely a repost. Booooring.
[–]miked7777 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
That seems to fly in the face of evolution as well though, right? why would we develop all these useless, badly designed, faulty systems by natural selection? That doesn't make sense either.
[–]bogan 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
No, it doesn't contradict evolutionary theory. When species adapt to a new environment, they have to make do with adaptations to their existing bodily designs. Those modifications may grant them advantages in the new environment, but aren't the ideal design one might see, if the species could somehow start with a completely fresh design. Over more time and more evolutionary changes those design flaws based on reuse of an existing design may not be as significant or may no longer even be apparent.
[–]Zebadiahz 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
It's pretty critical to realize that evolution doesn't have a direction. Natural selection favors the reproductive. The result of that is what gives us evolution.
This is incorrect. Evolution is about net effect. If the flaws take too much effort to fix, then the "flaws" continue along.
[–]Original_Woody 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Evolution is not a perfect system nor does it claim to be. Not by a long shot. Like previous replies to you, its a matter of reproductive success. Its a counter to the intelligent design because consider it like this.
If you were an engineer designing a robot, you would build it as optimal as possible. Resources and technology are the only limit. So the robot you build wouldn't have excess parts that don't provide a function and in fact could cause the robot to malfunction would you? Of course not, thats illogical.
So if a creator, in his infinite resources created something that has excess parts and hundreds of inefficiencies, it doesn't seem to make sense does it?
Evolution makes no claims like this. It could be said that evolution relies on the imperfection of nature and its flaws. It is very hard, so it is very rare for a new system to emerge in the concept of evolution, so instead, systems that already exist can become altered by things like flaws or mutations and then the system gains (or loses) a function.
[–]egosumFidius 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
upvoted for citation.
[–]GaryBusey007 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
I believe this is was found to be false. As in he didn't say this.
[–]fmc159 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I hate that people try to use the eye as evidence of intelligent design. Sure it may be complex, but we can explain the evolution. And look how many people in the world need glasses, contacts or laser surgery, and then there's those with one of the numerous more serious eye disorders. Some perfect design!
[–]pnokey 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Because people with eyeglasses are sinners. Duh.
[–]mfdoc12 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Next time someone tells you that homosexuality isn't natural you can say "take off your fucking eyeglasses when you say that to me. "
[–]nuggles_again 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Or that silly little blind spot that every human has.
[–]chillyhellion 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
It can't be used as evidence for intelligent design, but I do think it gives evolution a hard time. I believe that there's an answer we haven't stumbled on yet that explains such examples of irreducible complexity, but I don't think it's adequately addressed by current theories.
[–]M0b1u5 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
That analogy isn't original. It was stated decades ago by a comedian whose name I do not recall.
Tyson isn't very quotable in my view. He doesn't have that much very profound stuff to say.
But what he is, is unbelievably passionate about science - and that's the power of Tyson - not his actual quotes.
[–]jared1981 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Robin Williams
[–]nozeitall 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
While I love Neil, I think it's a bit of a rush to judgment to say that because life/forms is/are not perfect, that it must be a product of chaos. Simply because a science experiment does not work, or it doesn't turn out as intended, doesn't mean there were no scientists involved.
[–]dhicks3 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
...the difference being that we don't claim scientists are infallible and omnipotent. A scientist who is either of these things could not by definition have events go other than he intended.
[–]nozeitall 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago*
I was unaware that the phrase intelligent design included the word omnipotent.
[–]dhicks3 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
It does implicitly in the minds of those arguing for it, whether they admit it in public or not. Unless, of course, you're seriously agreeing with this guy.
[–]nozeitall 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Well, in some sense, I guess I am. I actually love this guy. But stop and think for a minute about the leaps in sophistication of computer generated worlds; aka video games. Perhaps you've seen Tron; who was the alien there? How about the word quantum, to quantize, isn't a pixel or a bit a quantized unit? Is it really that hard to imagine our entire universe actually only existing on the mainframe of some super(duper) computer as part of some grand science simulation?
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Hitchens' Razor
Not an assertion, a hypothesis. And what is science, without a hypothesis. A Gedanken, ala Schrödinger's cat. You can dismiss ideas all you like, much like your theologian counterparts, but your agreement is not necessary for the validity of the argument.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/blog/2011/11/holograms-black-holes-and-the-nature-of-the-universe/
Gnostics believe that the creator was a demiurge, a blind god. Not infallible nor omnipotent. A flawed or malevolent creator.
"...if God is neither able nor willing to act, then why call him God?" -- Epicurus
If the creator of the universe was an evil being, he's still the creator of the universe.
On the other hand, in the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says "the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty."
If God is unable or unwilling to act, it may depend on the form he's taken. He may be ignorant of who he really is.
[–]thomyorke64 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Did he say this before or after the same sewage complex comparison was used in Forgetting Sarah Marshall? Good reference in either direction.
[–]medievalvellum 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Although, the appendix is pretty good at lowering your chances of dying from a C Diff infection. Now if he really wanted a good example: external gamete factories. WTF is that about?
[–]Randy_Tutelage 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Let me just say that if God was a city planner he would not put a playground next to a sewage system!
You'd be surprised about what city planners are capable of.
[–]jimmy_o 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I literally linked the stupid design video a while ago and got no karma, yet you get front page by posting a few quotes from the video with a background picture of him... :<
That's just how r/atheism works, jimmy-o.
[–]rsmb1268 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I go to a super religious school and I put this up in my dorm in color and my roommate wrote in on a sticky note and put it next to the glass in the picture, "Wow since that's beer what he's saying is irrelevant". I don't want to live on this plannet anymore.
That's asking for trouble, man.
[–]screch 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
"Let me just say that if God was a city planner he would not put a playground next to a sewage system!"
[–]khast 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Sure he would...because it has the possibility of creating super heroes...and that is just awesome.
...oh, it doesn't work that way? :( Never mind...god's a dick then.
[–]Grand_Theft_Audio 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
That entertainment complex quip is ancient. Not sure it was Neil's originally. Heard it about 10 years ago.
[–]CowboyBoats 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I think he got that last one from Arthur C. Clarke. Maybe one of the Rendezvous with Rama books?
[–]Jgold2790 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I hope people know that Robin Williams has been telling this joke years before Tyson said this. I love Neil but every time I see this I never see that Williams is given any credit.
At first I was like: "Ooh, dramatic text placement!"
But then I was like: "Oh, it's just the stupid light right there."
[–]dwolfe10203 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
hey, i know some of these words!
Well that was more of a humorous approach lol
[–]getfree623 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
TIL Neil deGrasse Tyson has trouble putting nail polish on his pinky toe.
[–]copperhair 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Somehow I've never seen this before. I regret that I have but one upvote to give this--repost or no. Fucking hilarious.
[–]omgdracula 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The thing I always thought is we evolved to have our genitals there. We are just as fucking retarded.
[–]DownInFront11 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
NEIL
DeGrasse
TYSON!!!!!
[–]keveready 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Not disagreeing with anything he says here. HOWEVER, I believe all of the items listed here are closely related to evolution, and therefore not exactly great arguments. The appendix harbors bacteria, not quite sure it's as necessary today as it was tens of thousands of years ago, perhaps when we were still eating raw meat, this bacteria was very useful. I also assume the pinky toenail has shrunk by a large margin in the same amount of time. Bad breath, not quite sure but I believe reasons for that are diet, probably some kind of acid stuff helping digest your food. For the wind pipe, I agree. As for between our legs, let's just say I'd hate to taste cave woman pussy.
[–]OneWonderfulFish 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
He sounds like Seinfeld in that schtick. "What's the deal with your genital area?! It's like an amusement park crossed with a sewage system. I mean, really? C'mon!"
[–]JEveryman 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
My favorite quote from the lecture I saw with this quote is, "Imagine if you had a separate hole for breathing, eating, and talking that would be just really cool...Its not a hard request. Dolphins breathe and eat through different holes in their body and that's a mammal. So I'm not asking for...ya know...Its like Santa Claus could bring this one."
Link
[–]Carelessly 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Robin Williams already made the entertainment/sewage system joke, just saying. Does it really matter? No, but I wanted to point out that this joke isn't groundbreaking.
[–]Secularpride 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Gotta love it.
Too bad he doesn't realize that the appendix actually serves a purpose for most people's immune function.
[–]SpinalMeninjesus 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Guys God has a plan for all that stuff. Just because you don't understand the purpose of the appendix doesn't mean God put it there on accident, it's probably there to help kill those damn African children he hates or some shit.
Someone bashing the theory of intelligent design by pointing out "design flaws" in humans has missed the point. They assume there was a goal to reach.
In a godless universe, there are no mistakes. Human opinions are irrelevant. Something cannot happen by mistake. Mistakes only exist within abstract simbolic human thought.
[–]Chicoramero 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The way I see it, the entertainment and sewage systems are routed through the same pipe so little boys don't ask what their penis is for. They assume it only has one use. I did anyway.
[–]heyitsmecarlos 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
"like an entertainment complex in a sewage system" fuxking genius
[–]Drgn_nut 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Here's a bit of an anthropomorphic thought I had a while back:
Humans are conscious of their own existence, so assuming that it's not just a "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" situation, that could mean that there is a certain degree of self awareness associated with our individual cells. This self awareness would be insignificant, seeing as it takes a few billion to have the rational abilities of a human, but nonetheless, they potentially have a capacity for self-modification.
This is what I think might have happened, because although evolution may have happened over billions of years, I still get the impression that events such as the absorption of mitochondria and chloroplasts, the conversion of circular to linear DNA (assuming that all cells have a common ancestor), and the addition of chromosomes to our current 23 pairs are so unlikely to occur by chance that something else lightly nudged the processes.
This idea is actually somewhat testable too; by using various approximations, we should be able to (once we have information on how cells underwent the aforementioned processes) determine whether there is a reasonable probability of these events occurring by random chance or if there appears to have been some other interacting factor.
Thoughts?
[–]forlackofanetterbame 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
just slow clapped fo real yo.
[–]Aix 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Are we going to post this every week?
I know this will get downvoted, but the official Catholic belief, in teleology, which states that nothing happens without Yahweh wanting it to happen at each step (in order for humans in particular to evolve, rather than just by natural selection), is actually the same thing as Intelligent Design. I've seen a LOT of people on Reddit point out that Catholics support natural selection, but not a single one point out that they don't, they support teleology, which is not supported by science.
[–]vishun 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Firstly, he asserts that the actual reality is not anymore in the process of shaping itself to a better design. Maybe that design refers only to the initial evolution routines (i.e. the fundamental forces and whatnot). Secondly, why sewage and pleasure should be spatially set apart in order for the system to work properly? Otherwise, why should that be considered a glitch? Just because mr Tyson thinks the piss is nobler or cleaner than the sperm or other erotic fluids? Is there any scientific relevance at all in this retrograde bias?
I have always suspected NdGT having HPD and this plethora of sophistry is a clear sign for my assumption. Presenting science facts in such an erroneous way, provided the idiots from the internet will applaud, could lead to a future army of atheists idiots who I could envision taking over the world in the same manner religion did it in the Dark Ages.
And btw I'm not a theist or religious, but this atheist movement becomes more and more aggressive, demanding and fundamentalist when served to the masses and purported by idiots.
And now go on, so what if I'm essentially right, downvote the fuck out of this, this is the trend. I guess it's time to start fearing the atheist movement just as they used to fear religion 1000 years ago.
[–]somethingthathurts 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Really? really? you don't know that all the fucking intelligent design bullshit and all the rest of the shit that people spout to try to make their beliefs makes no sense and is idiocy? why post this, why? we all know it. why pander to them the more by refuting their bullshit? the world will move forward without them, we don't need to fight. they will just fall behind as the forgotten husks of history. the world has a bright and glorious future and these people are not a part of it. they can only hold up progress for so long, and that is a beautiful thing.
[–]bigDean636 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Can we please just put it in the sidebar that literally every single thing NdT has said has already been posted in an image-quote form. We don't need to keep seeing them ad nauseum.
[–]PhilosopherKing92 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
If i could upvote this twice i would.
[–]apparatuscriticus 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Darwin's own theories explain the possibility of intelligent design. I don't believe intelligent design to mean that we are from god or aliens. I do however believe that there is a mechanism in the bacterial flagellum that contains numerous parts that are not from within the cell. If you can explain that with another Tyson quote, by all means... perhaps this time without just trying to take the piss?
[–]mastigia 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Oh my the sewage complex thing is giving me fits. Love this guy.
[–]keepthepace 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Currently learning about genomics and epigenetics.
Whoever designed that is mad as fuck.
[–]bobaimee 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
THIS MAN IS SO ATTRACTIVE TO ME.
[–]foLkie024 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago
this is brilliant
I'm non-religious, and I see this as funny. But if you ask me, this is a pretty awful argument.
[–]Godssheep 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
It`s hard to come up with a solid argument against intelligent design... It offers nothing to work with.
[–]bogan 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Maybe some of the other examples for argument from poor design would better help in pointing out what appear to be design flaws in the human body, if one imagines a god starting from scratch and creating a human from the dust of the earth with no intermediary forms.
However don't expect that to persuade Young Earth Creationists of the error of their beliefs. They just invent new supporting material for their beliefs when needed. Many young earth creationists, to try to counter the argument from poor design that points out there are many "design flaws" in the human body that wouldn't likely be there if a designer was starting from scratch rather than the current human body being the result of evolutionary changes over millenia, have come up with the notion that such flaws in the bodies of humans and other creatures are the result of the "Fall" In that approach Christian creationists aren't so dissimilar from Hindu creationists who believe that all species on earth including humans have "devolved."
Those creationists refuse to believe that significant anatomical changes have occurred over millions of years, but in order to come up with some explanation for what appear to be design issues, will believe that the human body, as well as the bodies of other creatures, has devolved into a state with many design issues over just a few thousand years.
[–]theholyevil 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Old earth believer here. I like your claim completely against creationist. Looking back some of the worst times of my life was being convinced the world was 6,000 years old..... silly me. However, this argument against poor design does not seem to hold much weight in my opinion because it is based around the fact that for something to be designed it has to be perfect.
Take an Iphone for example. it has a purpose, design, and function. However, you drop it from your ear and most likely it will break. So what do we need to do to make this sucker unbreakable? how about a steel coating half an inch thick? But now you have a whole bunch of other problems for one the thing is going to be bulky, weight a few pounds, and is probably going to put some extra $$$ making it. Not to mention it is not conflicting with it's purpose of being lightweight and portable. My main point being, you can spend your entire life making something perfect, but sometimes perfect is going to be in the eye of the designer and the people who use it every day.
An engineer designing a new product, such as an Iphone, will make tradeoffs, e.g., in the case you cite, making a product far more durable may add significantly to the weight and cost, so he may opt for the lower weight and cost. But, if he isn't starting from scratch, but instead of a new product is adding functionality to an existing product, then you can often see remnants of the old design retained that wouldn't be there if the engineer designed the product from scratch. Sometimes one might wonder why a particular feature is retained in the latest model as it seems to now be superfluous. It may have been retained simply because it was easier to retain it than completely eliminate, if eliminating it would involve a significant redesign.
Looking at some of the problems we see in the human body and some of the design "solutions" we see in other animals, it is evident that it isn't a matter of the design features reflecting the type of trade-off your example suggests, but of the species being forced by nature to make-do with modifications to what it already had in place in body design.
E.g., as humans have evolved to make use of a diet different than that from our remote ancestors, our skulls and jaws have changed from that of remote ancestors crowding teeth:
Crowded teeth and poor sinus drainage, as human faces are significantly flatter than those of other primates and humans share the same tooth set. This results in a number of problems, most notably with wisdom teeth.
As giraffes have evolved to have longer necks the path of the laryngeal nerve has become convoluted, not because of a design trade-off that gives some advantage to the current circuitous path, but because an existing design was retained as the species evolved.
The route of the recurrent laryngeal nerve is such that it travels from the brain to the larynx by looping around the aortic arch. This same configuration holds true for many animals; in the case of the giraffe, this results in about twenty feet of extra nerve.
The panda's thumb is an example of a species making do with what it had to work with from a prior state in its evolutionary history.
Sometimes retention of characteristics that were beneficial can be harmful under new circumstances when the environment changes, because the creatures ancestors evolved to be best suited to a different environment.
I'll play the devil's advocate here:
From a Christian perspective, could these issues not be a result of the massive inbreeding that happens in the Bible? For instance, Adam and family, Noah and family, and various bloodline incest? Assuming the accuracy of these people and their lives, then is it not feasible that these problems developed through everyone's lineage being traced back to two accounts of repeated incest?
[–]bogan 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
One should ask how any incestuous relationships between humans could explain what appear to be "design flaws" or evolutionary adaptation of existing structures to fit new circumstances in nonhuman creatures.
E.g., gannet nostrils:
Birds of the family Sulidae, the boobies and gannets, are diving birds, plunging from height into the water. And one of their adaptations to this is that they lack external nostrils. This makes sense: the water would otherwise get shoved up their noses on impact. So is this intelligent design? Not exactly. For though they lack external nostrils, they have everything else that constitutes nasal airways inside their beaks -- the septum, choana etc -- it's just that the nostrils are sealed off at the outside. Having nasal airways that cannot work (since they are blind-ended) is pretty pointless design. Why bother having them at all?
Birds of the family Sulidae, the boobies and gannets, are diving birds, plunging from height into the water. And one of their adaptations to this is that they lack external nostrils. This makes sense: the water would otherwise get shoved up their noses on impact.
So is this intelligent design? Not exactly. For though they lack external nostrils, they have everything else that constitutes nasal airways inside their beaks -- the septum, choana etc -- it's just that the nostrils are sealed off at the outside. Having nasal airways that cannot work (since they are blind-ended) is pretty pointless design. Why bother having them at all?
Reference: Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes
The above reference has has many more such examples.
Or take the case of the panda's "thumb", which, unlike our own thumbs is made from evolutionary adaptation of the radial sesamoid bone. If a god designed the panda from scratch then one would expect a thumb like ours, rather than the panda's thumb being an adaptation of the radial sesamoid bone.
So the panda must use parts on hand and settle for an enlarged wrist bone and a somewhat clumsy, but quite workable, solution. The radial thumb is, to use Michael Ghiselin's phrase, a contraption, not a lovely contrivance. But it does its job and excites our imagination all the more because it builds on such improbable foundations.
The Panda's Peculiar Thumb by Stephen Jay Gould
But back to humans. Creationists need to claim Abel and/or Seth either mated with their mother, Eve, or any unnamed sisters Eve may have begat by Adam, if they choose to stick just to females mentioned in the Bibles accepted by most varieties of Christians today. Some will suggest that the male offspring of Adam and Eve "married" their sisters when pressed, but again you then have to envision substantial design changes in many areas of the human body due to inbreeding between the descendants of this original "perfect" couple over just a few thousand years, if you accept the creationist notion that the Earth is nor more than a few thousand years old while at the same time ignoring the fossil record.
To accept that view, one has to ignore not just the hominid fossil record which provides information on human evolution, but ignore the evidence for an earth many millions of years old (the earth is about 4.6 billion years old) found in the entire fossil record.
It seems somewhat implausible to use the incest defense of creationism as an explanation of goose bumps in humans, which appear to be relics of our evolutionary past.
Humans get goose bumps when they are cold, frightened, angry, or in awe. Many other creatures get goose bumps for the same reason, for example this is why a cat or dog’s hair stands on end and the cause behind a porcupine’s quills raising. In cold situations, the rising hair traps air between the hairs and skin, creating insulation and warmth. In response to fear, goose bumps make an animal appear larger – hopefully scaring away the enemy. Humans no longer benefit from goose bumps and they are simply left over from our past when we were not clothed and needed to scare our own natural enemies. Natural selection removed the thick hair but left behind the mechanism for controlling it.
Reference: Top 10 Signs of Evolution in Modern Man
And vestigial structures in human anatomy seem more likely to be a result of evolutionary changes rather than defects caused by inbreeding.
To believe that the earth is only a few thousand years old one has to reject radiometric dating methods, such as potassium-argon dating. To believe that the earth is only a few thousand years old, one has to discount the scientific method and the findings of astronomy, biology, chemistry, cosmology, genetics, geology, physics, zoology, and other scientific disciplines in order to maintain the cherished belief that one can understand the development of life on earth and the development of the universe solely by reading the Bible and adhering to a literal interpretation of its contents.
Not all Christians, of course, take that approach. There are denominations that have instead adopted a theistic evolution viewpoint.
[–]rAtheismlsSoBrave -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago
This subreddit is too brave.
Look - I don't believe in god but think of this:
Where in the fuck did the first cell from from? Think about that - then think about how it mutated to two cells...and again to 4....and then fucking specialized shit....that's taking FOREVER.
How statistically improbable is it that it evolved into having a circulatory system? Bones? The whole fucking setup?
I think either we have been here tens of billions of years longer than they say - or existence isn't fucking real and this is all a figment of my god damned imagination - BUT THEN HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT EXIST?
Also physics is so fucking convientant - multiple Pv and it equals NRT?
I'M STARTING TO THINK THIS UNIVERSE DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST AT ALL - which begs the question - why the fuck don't I have super powers? I'm tired of driving, I WANT TO FUCKING FLY.
Anyways I have to get back to work doing charts and reading fucking journal articles.
[–]DefinitelyRelephant 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
Where in the fuck did the first cell from from?
Amino acids.
[–]mOdQuArK 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
and lipids.
[–]QuimGargle 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Blankets. How the fuck do they work?
[–]DeadlyPear 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
It is actually 100% statistically possible, seeing as how it already happened.
[–]seladore 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Exactly -- all that stuff is exactly why I'm a scientist. Because questions are awesome :)
I feel like whenever I try to talk to creationist-types, we just talk past each other. They mention these huge mysteries, and say "can science answer this?". And I say "well... no. Isn't that cool? We have no idea! But -- and here's the important bit -- we want to try and find out!".
[–]1137 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Humans are a tiny unimportant blip on the earths timeline. We simply cannot fathom a million years or what things might be like that far from today.
[–]molten_fish_geyser 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Think about how many billions or trillions of random cell like structures formed and failed before one succeeded.
[–]TheSnowNinja 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
It's actually super interesting when you start to learn how those things came about. Your questions kind of sound like evolution had an end goal in mind, but it did not.
The question shouldn't be, 'What are the odds that something could evolve a skeletal system?' The question should be, 'How did it happen? What steps did it take? What is the advantage of a closed circulatory system to an open circulatory system?'
And physics isn't just 'convenient.' PV=nRT is just an equation that relates our observation of gasses. And it isn't that complicated when you look at each part of the equation when you realize what it means. Of course the pressure is going to increase when the temperature increases, because the particles have more energy and will collide with their container more. We created the definitions, and we found an equation that links the definitions.
I would strongly suggest taking a zoology class if you haven't already, because it is really neat to be able to look at animals and kind of track how different body parts formed.
Think about it - physics equations seem to make pretty conveinant equations. Who says this isn't my mind being lazy and creating easy laws?
[–]Kishara -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
All of this and great fashion sense as well. He is worthy.
[–]Managua_Green 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
You know, I've never, ever seen this before in my life. Ever.
[–]saganier 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Many actually haven't. Hide, downvote, or unsubscribe.
I'll hide... :(
[–]_Nostalgia_ 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I look up to this man in a way I've very rarely done.
Black dude slams something white people clap!
[–]Rawtashk 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
r/atheism: The only place on reddit where you can reuse the same quote, slap a different background on it, and reap hundreds of imaginary internet posts.
I mean, seriously....why is this getting upvoted? It's been posted (and said) hundreds of times. If you're part of this subreddit, or just an atheist in general, then you already know the quote.
That would be like me expecting to get "thank you sex" every time I reminded my wife how I did a complete bathroom remodel in a weekend while she was gone to surprise her. First time it works, and probably for a few times after that. By the time I say it for the 50th time....she's going to slap me.
[–]Everything_Is_Irie 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Shad up, I haven't seen this. Not everyone is on the internet 24/7. Get a life and quit whining.
[–]Ragnalypse -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
The church of atheism speaks again!
[–]cyberdouche 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
What's that supposed to mean?
[–]CEE92 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
calm the fuck down Neil. It's intelligent design theory, not perfect design theory.
[–]khast 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Ahem...if I may?...And to quote "god is perfect, and he only makes perfect things."
Christians say sin causes the imperfections...but I don't buy that, because that would require some level of evolution to change your body from "absolutely perfect" to having this level of biologically critical flaws in every species of animal with, or without sin.
[–]Teleportingsocks -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
TIL atheism is all about Neil deGrasse Tyson "absolutely slamming intelligent design".
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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