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Totally the way I explain it to my family (27.media.tumblr.com)
submitted 3 months ago by ncroller
[–][deleted] 85 points86 points87 points 3 months ago
I just want to say that Christian people do not believe that Adam and Eve were created with original sin. The original sin is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I'm not saying that the "correct" explanation is worth any less criticism, but at least know what you're talking about.
[–]Almost_Ascended 12 points13 points14 points 3 months ago
The why did God create the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Why did he create the snake that tempted Eve? Why create the notion of sin? If he didn't, then his son wouldn't have had to die for it.
Rather awkward, having your son die for something you created, when you (supposedly) have the power to not create it in the first place.
[–]JCelsius 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
This is the point I always bring up. Why would God even create a tree of knowledge and furthermore, why would he create sin? No one was making him create anything. It makes absolutely no sense except as a plot device.
[–]chillyhellion 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago
I believe that God did just that when he made angels. But angels are choiceless worship machines, and boring. So God made an angel with the ability to choose. This angel saw himself as more glorious than God and rebelled. God then makes man both with free will and humility. God knows full well that man is going to disobey, but he created man anyway. The fallen Angel deceives man and causes his fall from grace. Scene two. Plot twist. Turns out God saw this coming. He was counting on Satan's betrayal and man's fall from grace, and God sends himself to die as man for man's sins, therefore demonstrating his almighty grace. Man is now free to choose reconciliation with God or not, which is what God wanted: choice. Not to be forcibly worshiped or for man to be forcibly dammed. Satan is thwarted, man gets choice, God is glorified, win-win-win.
Anyway, that's the Christian explanation, since you brought it up. I'm not saying you have to believe it, so no worries.
[–]MisterElectric 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
God then makes man with free will God knows full well that man is going to disobey
God then makes man with free will
God knows full well that man is going to disobey
O.o
[–]iLeoFace 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I believe in the Qu'ran it says that when God created Adam and Eve, he told all the angels to bow down to them. Satan being the rebel that he is said no. Then it became a shitstorm after that. I'd say both versions don't make sense.
[–]GreatWhiteFaggot 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Basically, the only possible explanation is that God isn't actually omnipotent, nor omniscient.
Or he's those and a dick.
[–]chillyhellion 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
No, he's just not a helicopter parent :P just because we're free to fuck up doesn't mean he doesn't care.
[–]JCelsius 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Whether they could choose or not, that doesn't excuse his creation of sin. If his goal for humanity was for them to live with sin, then why on earth did he create them without sin and why would he punish them once they knew sin, which was exactly what he would have aimed for? Some people might say without sin it makes worshiping him empty. Well why did he originally create us without sin knowing that our purpose was to worship him and knowing that worship without the option to sin was empty to him? It just doesn't add up.
[–]chillyhellion 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I don't believe God created sin. We often think of sin as an action or a collection of actions. As a thing. But contemporary Christianity often teaches that sin is a state of being. The original Hebrew word for sin literally means "to miss the mark", or to fall short of God. Sin can be thought of as distance from God. Separation from the godly ideal. In this case, God didn't directly create sin. Sin came into being when he made distance from him an option. Unfortunately that's the option we went for. God didn't forbid ouf choice because like you pointed out, blind worship is meaningless. By giving us a choice, God ensured that: A. By choosing him we are turning our backs on an existence of sin. B. By choosing sin and then through his forgiveness accepting a second chance, we make a choice that is both meaningful and displays the mercy of God.
The most difficult point to consider is that God created us, so did he create us to choose sin? I don't believe so. I believe that he created us with the ability to choose God or sin. Knowing ahead of time what choice we will make doesn't mean he made that choice for us. It's not a satisfactory answer for some, and that's perfectly fine. I won't choose your beliefs for you, and I'm thankful for the chance to explain mine.
I disagree with that interpretation, but hey. You seem like you have a good enough head on your shoulders. As long as you keep your beliefs out of my government I'm hunky dory with it.
Deal :) unless my ideas are rigorously tested, voted for, and supported by the constitution and its amendments. Every good idea should have the support of its people and every good idea should support its people's rights.
[–]Revvy 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Much of what you're claiming as biblical cannon is from later Christian, specifically Catholic, mythology.
You're correct. Specifically from books such as John Milton's "Paradise Lost" and "Paradise Regained". It's a very good read, if you keep in the back of your mind that it's not biblical scripture.
I didn't claim that my explanation was biblical canon. I even prefaced my comment with a big "I believe". I did contradict myself at the end when I said "that's the Christian explanation", so you're right to remind me that that's only my own take on things. I hope that you have a great afternoon.
[–]fun_young_man 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Because the story is the written account of millennia old myth regarding the split between agriculturalists and hunter gatherers. Thus those who live in gardens and who eat some fruits but not others. You see the same themes in the Cain and able story.
[–]Leroytankin 26 points27 points28 points 3 months ago
True, but they do believe that the rest of us are created with it.
[–]OB1_Shinobi 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
Unfortunately, they believe that every person on the face of the planner came from Adam and Eve. Super incest ensues.
[–]TheCrool 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
Nope, that's mainly Catholics.
[–]ChaoticAgenda 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I was always taught that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Maybe we are not 'created with sin', but it is in inevitable thing and the reason everybody is going to hell. The only salvation is asking for Jesus' forgiveness of that sin. I'm fairly certain all the sects of Christianity have original sin incorporated. It's just that they don't all call it that word for word.
[–]TheCrool 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Yeah, all Christian sects believe that all have sinned, but not all believe that babies are born with sin, but rather that they accumulate their own sins during their life and don't inherent sins of their ancestors. Many Christian believe that babies are pure and innocent, but Catholics believe that if a baby is born without being baptized, it goes to some sort of Limbo or Purgatory. This is why the Catholic Church is often so outspoken against abortion because they believe that you're damning the souls of fetuses by killing them.
I thought the Pope got rid of Purgatory. I distinctly remember him pardoning everybody in it and wiping out that plane of existence.
[–]rynosoft 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Evolution!
[–]Ahandgesture 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Due to the fact that original sin is inherited.
[–]greymatters_flipside 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Well, there's not enough reason to convert us to their faith if they can't convince us that we have "original sin".
[–]Mormon_Informer 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
"Original sin" is the concept that children somehow inherit the alleged sin of Adam an Eve. This is different than the concept that all of humanity has their own sins. In which case you would need to repent and follow Christ to become saved. Therefore there is plenty reason to convert you.
[–]joeyoungblood 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Original Sin is like genetic DNA in the bible. In early christianity the problem of religious 'conversion' arose. Had this problem still persisted and not been settled by the christian leaders original sin would only apply to those for the Judea-Christian Faith from the Israel / Palestine region and those who mated with them. The rest of the world would be exempt.
[–]theCaptain_D 13 points14 points15 points 3 months ago
Isn't it also fair to say that considering pre-apple Adam and Eve literally did not know right from wrong, they can't be held accountable for doing "wrong"? And when they ate the apple, they became "human" as we now understand it- with higher knowledge.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I said it was no less worthy of criticism.
[–]theCaptain_D 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I wasn't arguing with you- just expanding ;)
[–]hrgilbert 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
I think when they were told 'don't eat the apple from that tree' they knew that it was the 'wrong' thing to do.
[–]Smallpaul 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
So they already knew the difference between right and wrong?
That's what you're saying?
[–]ClutchHunter 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Or they realised they had no choice. And then they turned out to be supremely stupid.
I don't steal from the rich what wouldn't affect their lives but would enhance my own greatly, not due to morality but due to consequences. Realising supposed consequences and fear of that does not equate to morality.
I know that example sucks, but you know what I was going for.
[–]Smallpaul 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
No, no we don't...
[–]Charlestonian 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
They were told that they could do anything except eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That's as black and white as right and wrong get. "Do anything BUT...."
How can you understand the concept or purpose of rules if you don't understand what it is to do wrong? God said don't eat the apple, snake says eat the apple. Being incapable of reasoning from a moral standpoint, eve ate the apple. Not her fault in my mind.
[–]tjr0001 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
To that point. They did not know good from evil. However they did know right from wrong as they knew to obey God. For example, for however long it was they did not eat the apple per Gods command until the serpent convinced Eve go against this one rule.
[–]Hypersapien 16 points17 points18 points 3 months ago
The thing that you need to understand is that "sin" doesn't actually mean immorality as we (atheists, humanists, freethinkers and other sane people) understand it. What sin actually means is "disobedience to god" which early Christians and modern fundamentalists equate to immorality.
[–]Skwerl23 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
is it wrong because god said so, or did god say so simply because it is.
If murder was ok in gods eyes would it be sinful not to? etc...
[–]Vernon_Hardapple 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I'm not sure in Genesis it specifically says Adam & Eve knew disobeying gawd was wrong. And even if they did, were they not rather childlike all running around the garden all nekkid and such? Kind of like 3 year olds?
So gawd made Adam & Eve with our humanly curious nature, made them childlike, then placed a plate of cookies within reach and told them "don't touch the cookies or you'll die, I'll be back tomorrow". Punishing a child under such circumstances = asshole parent = asshole gawd.
Not to mention they didn't die so he lied to them and the snake was telling the truth to Eve when he assured her she wouldn't die.
I just can't escape the fact that, as described in the bible, gawd is a sadistic asshole I wouldn't let anywhere near my kids.
[–]DenryM 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Autocorrect? Or do you just not want to type God? It's not like if you say it three times he'll show up...
[–]Tmbgkc 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I always assume that was, like, five minutes, tops.
They did not know good from evil. However they did know right from wrong as they knew to obey God.
What is the difference between "knowledge of right and wrong" and "knowledge of good and evil".
[–]OB1_Shinobi 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
While people are adding their own ideas for how Christianity works, I like to imagine that tomatoes are the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Tomatoes are gross and should be punished.
[–]tomatobob 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
;_;
[–]scorpion347 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Actually the idea is they had no concept of wrong deeds that could be done therfore where incapable of doing them.
[–]DumDumDog 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
they were created and god knew they would eat the apple and then poof there is orginal sin .... god set them up ...
[–]HorseThief 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
And also not all christians believe in trinity. There are nontrinitarians.
[–]drockers 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
All knowing god ----> knew it would happen
Exactly the same and making them with original sin.
[–]Vaansinn 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
The rest of the text is also utter nonsense = down vote from me. It's a real shame what r/atheism has become. A little bit more tolerance seems necessary for some in here.
[–]NukeThePope 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago*
Nonsense! You seem to be unaware that 24% of Americans are Fundamentalist Christians, and they bloody well do believe in Adam, Eve, the snake, the tree, the apple and original sin.
[–]no_egrets 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I think you misread the comment.
[–]NukeThePope 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
Yes, I did. Sorry bout that!
Also Jesus is considered the son of God... not God himself, sent down to be an example to follow. In the end the things he supposedly did are still good in the eyes of most people with the exception of the whole preach about God thing.
[–]Standatory 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
This is what Catholics believe. Mormons as well. But the other Christians believe he is God.
[–]urchant 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity which is the belief that they are separate but yet the same. I guess the easiest way to describe it would be Ice, Water, and Vapor are all the different but still the same.
Thank you for this. I am still young and have much to learn about the many faiths in this world, but you just answered many questions and showed a good estimate of how far I am from that goal of understanding them fully.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
YES, but if god is all knowing then he already knew they would eat from the tree, ta dah! MAGIC!
[–]Bigetto 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I also belief that Christians don't believe that Jesus created the world, them or himself. That would be God.
[–]theshoelessone 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I also don't think many Christians think of Jesus as a sacrifice to God per se, more as a sacrifice for their sins.
It's a moot point; like you said, their actual beliefs are no less crazy than those espoused in this picture.
I didn't say they were crazy. I just said they were no less worthy of criticism just like everything else in the world.
[–]krispyKRAKEN 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Also God is separate from Jesus. Jesus did not impregnate Mary... God did which means Jesus would be his son. I could see you trying to explain it as "God is in all of us so technically he is Jesus" but that's intentionally trying to make it sound even more ridiculous and really the actual story doesn't need any help with that.
[–]no_egrets 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
It's rather vague. Very few Christians would consider themselves to worship a trio of divisible and separate gods - instead, they are considered to be simultaneously different and the same, like 'aspects' of a single entity. That means that though it would be inaccurate to say 'Yahweh impregnated Mary with Yahweh', it wouldn't necessarily be wrong to say 'God impregnated Mary with God'; the word can be used to describe the Godhead or the Father.
I think.
[–]CardboardHeatshield 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Erm... We dont believe that Jesus killed himself either.....
[–]biggerx 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago*
Um who created the serpent? OH YEAH.
*accidentally a letter.
[–]midbc 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
also Adam and Eve oh and the apple and the whole concept of sin....etc...etc
[–]squigs 19 points20 points21 points 3 months ago
Except he didn't impregnate Mary with himself. The actual explanation of the Trinity makes way less sense than that.
God the Father and God the Son (and God the Holy Spirit) are not the same entity as each other. They are all wholly and completely God though, and God is each of them.
If you're going to mock nonsense, mock the right nonsense!
[–]JCelsius 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago
So they aren't the same entity, but they are all God? Either you're saying Christians worship three deities, or you're saying they are the same entity. You can't both be something and not be it at the same time.
[–]WoollyMittens 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago
This is not normal, but it is on religion.
[–]TheCarlos 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
This is just one of many parts of Christianity that does not make sense.
3 beings. All different. But all the same God. So they're all different deities. But they're all the same deity...you get it?
Yea, neither do I; and that's one reason I became atheist. It would seem Christians want to be able to have three divine beings, but they also want to keep them all the same being so they won't be polytheistic. A classic example of Bullshit.
[–]SpacemanBrown -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
jesus's relationship with god makes a lot more sense if you take it at face value that they are not the same person/being/entity. jesus says god is greater than him, has more knowledge than him. also jesus was the firstborn of creation while god has always existed, god can hear prayers - jesus cannot - not the same person.
[–]modeliste 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
That makes no more sense, sorry.
[–]SpacemanBrown 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
You're saying that the idea of Jesus and God being two separate individuals is just as confusing as them being the same but different?
You and I are two separate individuals - is that confusing?
[–]modeliste 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The idea of a god is weird enough. A god having a baby is extra absurd.
[–]salsa_de_tomate 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
The best way I understood this was in church when I was much younger. My preacher said to think of it as water. It can be solid, it can be liquid and it can be gas but it's still water nonetheless. I believe it was also explained to me with an egg. Shell, white and yoke being three different parts of one same thing. I should point out that my (old) church (and many others) do not think the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are exactly the same being, just different beings who form the holy trinity.
(I'm an atheist, I learned this as a child)
[–]naven 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The problem is that no matter what analogy someone uses to explain the trinity it will ultimately come up short. For instance when Jesus prays to the father he's still essentially praying to himself. And even harder to rationalize is that Jesus himself says that he does not know the hour of his return to earth. That right there kind of puts the kibosh on Jesus being god.
[–]squigs 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Nope. They worship one being, who is three beings. Apparently this is one of the mysteries of Christianity.
There's absolutely no way to interpret things such that The Father and Jesus are the same being though. Personally I think the church has tied itself in knots trying to argue that Jesus is God All the evidence for Jesus as God could be read as Jesus as the son of God, or as an aspect of god and not be inherently self contradictory.
[–]AgentMull 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
SYNERGY!
[–]nothing_clever 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Oh shit, are you saying that the Christians actually developed quantum mechanics millennia before the scientists?
[–]dino_wiener -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
Have you ever thought that you cannot explain what God actually is? That just because you can't understand it in the petty language we created in the VERY recent existence of life on Earth doesn't contain any concept deep enough to grasp something that created this fucking thing we walk around in.
Not saying you have to believe it is true. But if you do, I don't think it is fully understandable by us.
Faith.
[–]JCelsius 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago*
I think taking a fundamental part of Christianity that makes absolutely no sense and chalking it up to the limitations of language is a huge cop out.
EDIT: I would also like to point out that saying language we very recently created goes against the Bible. According to the Bible the Earth was created and then man was created shortly thereafter, fully capable of speech that God gave us. I mean really, it's in the first book.
[–]dino_wiener 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Good point on the speech history.
It's true, it is kind of lame that saying I'm limited in what I'm able to understand because I'm human.
But I'm a Christian, and I believe that there is a God. You are, if you are, atheist so you believe that there is no God. Even though there is no proof that there is a God, there is also no proof that there is not a God. Science isn't to the point where it can prove the Big Bang Theory or any other theory of creation. So you have just as much faith in your belief as I do in my belief.
there is also no proof that there is not a God.
It is impossible to prove a negative. You can't prove there aren't unicorns. Think about that. How would you prove there aren't unicorns or faeries for that matter? You can't. Still, I'm fairly certain if asked if faeries exits, you would say "No."
My belief (or lack of one) is not based on faith. It is based on a lack of evidence and on an abundance of contradictions between the bible and what we know of the the world, and within itself. Just because science can't prove without a shadow of a doubt the origin of creation, that doesn't mean the default is God. Why would it be?
[–]alwyscaughtonsomthin 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Not fully understandable huh? And yet you try to understand it by faith. And you use words to describe what faith is. Just saying. Maybe you should follow your own advice and just let it be. Whatever it may be.
[–]Thefriendlyfaceplant 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
That's simply too absurd to mock. Like beating yourself up in a fight so there's nothing left of you to trash.
[–]Keyserchief 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
[–]xbl_armory 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I'd like to ad that in genesis he made man perfect and with free will, not original sin, that concept comes into play after the fruit.
[–]Azara1th 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
That gets me too. It's so crazy that I have a hard time believing people actually think it's true.
It's the same as how a minotaur is a whole horse AND a whole dude. At least that is my understanding of this matter.
[–]othergeneration 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
summary; god is a compulsive and confusing liar
[–]vylasaven 12 points13 points14 points 3 months ago
...The Aristocrats!
[–]oneacross 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Comment repost! http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/oos1l/how_can_we_possibly_not_believe_this/c3iutgz
Or... great minds think alike :)
[–]vylasaven 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
It was the first thing that came to mind!
[–]W00ster 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
The Aristocats?
[–]saxy_toss 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Came here to make this same comment. I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking it XD. You definitely get an upvote from me.
[–]notengoanadie 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Get outta my head charles!
[–]risumon 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I'm sad this is so low.
[–]Di_Fuoco18 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
I'm going look through all the pages of /r/Atheism and find a post that has been used many times before, then I'm gonna repost it with a different title for karma. TA DAH!!!
[–]waltmaniac 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago
Where is that karma erosion thing when you need it?
[–]aidan878 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Karma decay.
[–]kaze06 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
The wind has been but a gentle breeze lately.
[–]BasicDesignAdvice 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
you mean the thing that doesn't actually stop people from posting or upvoting?
if you want to stop reposts, you need to stop anyone from ever signing up for reddit, and then you need to make sure everyone who is here already have already seen it, then you need to make a deal with those people to stop posting it, and get everyone else on board because if three years from now they are reminded and want to see and upvote it again we're all on board with not posting it.
or just get over it.
[–]Keldrath 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago
AM I NOT MERCIFUL?
[–]2e4L 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
So you're saying that the time whole time Jesus was praying to his father.. he was actually just talking to himself? Smashing!
[–]lurkedlongtime 11 points12 points13 points 3 months ago
That's what happens when anyone else does it
[–]Mormon_Informer 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
That's a common Christian fallacy. They are, however, distinct beings.
A perfect example of what Jesus meant by "being the Father" and "being one with the Father" is given in his prayer to the Father in John 17. This was shortly before his crucifixion, and he was praying that his apostles/disciples be as one even as He and the Father are one in eachother. John 17:20-22
Now obviously, Jesus didn't want the 12 apostles to be the same person. Instead, he wished that they would become united under the same divine purposes which both He and his Father sought to accomplish.
The trinity is more of a union of purpose, but they are three separate individuals, all godly.
[–]2e4L 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Ahaha!
[–][deleted] 3 months ago
[deleted]
[–]greymatters_flipside 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Catholics believe in the "holy trinity" 1 god with 3 forms(father, son, & holy ghost). Confusing Jesus as his own father is a running joke here in r/atheism.
[–]NukeThePope 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
It's not really confusion when that is actually what Christianity (at least Catholicism) claims, though in an obfuscated wording. Which part of
Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being
did you have trouble understanding?
[–]greymatters_flipside 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago*
The Trinity tells us that there are three Persons in one Divine Nature. The names Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are names of persons. God can serve as either a name for the Father or a name for the Divine Nature. Before delving into the relative meaning of Persons and Natures it will be useful to make it clear that these terms refer to distinctly different things.
They are three different beings with 1 divinity, which also claims to be a monotheism. Giving christ the "title" of god shows credibility for the early christians. Well, debating this subject is best left for theologians which we are not, and I too appreciate the humor that christ is his own son.
[–]NukeThePope 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
This is sophist bullshit. There's a good reason all of Christendom has been split on this matter for a thousand years - it doesn't make sense no matter how you explain it.
[–]JCelsius 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
"We only worship one god, who just so happens to be three gods."
Yeah, is Christianity a monotheistic religion or not? Simple fucking question. If it is, then the rest of this mumbo-jumbo is a vain attempt to make sense of something that inherently makes no sense at all.
[–]NukeThePope 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
That's it, exactly.
[–]mfdoc12 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
He was his own son. Jesus is god, who had son, who is himself, named Jesus (Yeshua).
[–]FarFromFear 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
It's not a trick, Michael. It's an illusion!
[–]brisingfreyja 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Ah, I finally get these now that I watched the show.
[–]Sinaz20 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
If you are going to use a reddit post that's been incessantly reposted to make your point to your family, do you need to repost it to tell us? Couldn't you just comment on one or all of the other reposts?
[–]Vernon_Hardapple 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
If you're going to comment on a reddit post that's been incessantly reposted to make your point to the OP that he could just use the comments on the other reposts to tell us about his comments on FB, couldn't you just not comment in the comments of the repost but comment to yourself in a, uh, ... wait, where was I?
[–]HakunaWanada 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
FTFY
[–]funkanimus 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
yeah, I so want this little snippet to be valid, but it is really just the same as Christian summaries of atheist beliefs. several points in there are the responsibility of people and the subsequent "holy" acts were done to redeem people. Not that I believe any of it, but still, the argument in this pic is not valid
[–]schwoopdaloop 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Shh, don't get in the way of the War on Strawmen.
[–]i_love_younicorns 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Everyone in /r/atheism takes these things too seriously! This is funny! Just enjoy some laughs, friends.
[–]Happy_Cats 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Yeah... just like that one website posted on here a few days ago where people pretended to be fundamentalist Christian idiots. Half the people on here actually believed that. HEY /R/ATHEISM .... THERE'S GULLIBLE WRITTEN ON YOUR CEILING!
[–]walecrobertson 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
This sounds like the Aristocrats joke.
[–]AquaNeito 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
the aristocrats.
[–]DifferentOpinion1 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I thought this whole "let's point out all the craziness of Christianity" thing would have played out by now. How many different ways are there of mocking the same thing in the same subreddit?
"sin" is an artificial concept created to control people through simple means. By telling the people not to do a "sin" and if they do, they will burn in hell, you create a fearful society which will follow your (the religious cult) guidelines in order to avoid burning in hell. This of course gives the priesthood great power, the catholics have abused this to make tons of money. Donate to the church, say a few prayers and you are good to go!
Religion is the oldest Nigerian 419-scam still scamming people.
[–]WoollyMittens 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Christians: "... but it's different."
[–]PowderedDonuts 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
An all-powerful god who created heaven and earth in 6 days sure does have to jump through a lot of hoops in an effort to forgive man for doing something he knew man would do before he even bothered to create him.
Wonder how that conversation went with Jesus beforehand?
[–]mondomojo 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
This is the fundamental problem. People say that it was not the fault of God that Adam and Eve ate from the tree, but it is. God gave them free will, so why is he going to punish them for using it? God is all-powerful, so why must he get all angry and "save" us from Hell - why not poof just change the universe?
[–]HugTheRetard 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
needs an extra line saying: "then I will come back to life so my dying for your sins is null and void!"
[–]scrambles57 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Don't forget that you would also nullify said sacrifice when you come back to life.
[–]ModernDemagogue 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Whomever wrote this is an idiot. Adam and Eve were not created with original sin, it was their exercise of their own free will when they decided to eat the Apple in the Garden of Eden, which is the original sin we are supposedly born with. Therefore, logically God is actually giving man a second chance by sending his son to absolve us of this (and all other) sin if we use our free will to accept him. FYI, sin is disobeying god, not the more general "doing wrong."
I don't believe in any of this shit, but explaining something incorrectly is not a clever way of demonstrating that something is stupid, wrong, or in this case, cyclical/self-reenforcing.
If gawd is all-knowing then he created A/E knowing they'd eat the apple, thus free will is an illusion because A/E had no choice but to do what gawd already pre-ordained would happen.
But fuck, props to you for the use of "whomever". I'm feeling all hoity-toity now. :)
No, look up prevenient grace, or in general, free will in theology. Different doctrines/dogmas have different ways of reconciling omniscience with human free will, everything from god existing outside of time and not viewing time the same way, to god did in fact know and allow all this to happen as part of his divine plan which we are too small to question, to human capacity for free will and disobedience is component of the human soul which god granted, to omniscience not applying to the future because knowing everything only applies to that which can be known and the future cannot be known.
Yours is a common argument, but not all Christians, or those who believe in Jesus / The Bible Etc... necessarily believe in it. Your argument may apply to some, but certainly not to all. Wiki has some good synopses if you want a general idea.
[–]Ninurta 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0o1kXiUwGw
[–]Barimbino 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Adam and eve were without the knowledge of evil. They however could sin since sinning is disobeying God. All evil is sin but not all sin is evil. Eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a sin because God told them not to. However it was not evil like rape, murder, and idolatry. Sin is doing the opposite of what God tells you to do, even if it is not evil. At least that's how I understand it.
[–]flatlander00321 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Campbell explains things much better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzj8aE1KPPQ
[–]Anthraxmonki 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
If this was an ending to an HBO or Showtime series, peeps would be pissed.
[–]Abiding_Lebowski 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Is this an American Foreign Policy brochure?
[–]bugpoker 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The long con
[–]bendu 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I believe you forgot that The Virgin Mary was conceived by Immaculate Conception
[–]chchrogers 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Then after a few thousand years I'll finish my human experiment, leaving most of my creations in a burning, fiery pit.
[–]TheyCallMeTomSawyer 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Makes sense.
Except Jesus didn't kill himself, he just let Judas betray him and then was crucified.. Edit: Mixed up words.
[–]havesometea1 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Oh, and I created hell too...
bro, you got it all wrong. god didn't create everyone with original sin. we're all born with original sin because a talking snake convinced a woman we've never me to eat an apple 6000 years ago
[–]cannotlogon 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
When you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense.
[–]thefezhat 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I should start keeping count of these reposts...
[–]spagnitz 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I'll also wipe out the worlds population in a flood because I'm a good guy.
[–]bigsly 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The Aristocrats!
[–]zserfvbhuik 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
And I would also like to point out that man wasn't created with original sin, he sinned the first time by eating the forbidden fruit.
[–]runnergunner 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
and for my next trick...
[–]poleethman 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I'm confused about stawman attacks. Is this a strawman attack or does that not count when the whole story is ridiculous ?
[–]A5dr3 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
And can anyone list all the Theological innacurracies here? Didn't think so. - checkmate Christians
[–]SilentExchange 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Reductio Ad Absurdum
[–]ShackelfordRusty 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I understand Christians can be silly at times but you don't have to be a jerk about it.
[–]oddbucket123 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
how about you gain a bit of knowledge about Christianity before you mock it? your just as stupid as a fundamentalist Christian who mocks evolution for being improbable
[–]EskimoPrison 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I've seen this in r/atheism 3 times now. That's 3 times on my front page, I need different material!
[–]cnuttin 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
THE ARISTOCRATS!!!!!!
[–]thatcrazychristian 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
why is /r/atheism more of just an anti christian thing than anything else. I've seen some stuff bashing other religions but mainly it is just posts against christians and christianity. This is just a curiosity of mine.
[–]chirs3 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Read the FAQ.
[–]boot2skull 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
[–]marmotjmarmot 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
"Ta-daa, a magazine by and for gay magicians... But that's another story. " Dave Attell
[–]ZikkyDoog 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
god dammit ive had this photo on my phone for like four years now whyyy didnt i post stupid stupid stupid
[–]bradysglasses 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
repost..
[–]ikadono18 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Well, I guess you could say... Jesus was a magician.
YEAAAa...aaaaahh...wait what.
[–]drcowbell 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
gotta downvote it because its a repost
[–]brohioforeal 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Are there any websites that blatantly point out EVERYTHING wrong with Catholicism? My parents are hardcore Catholics and it's just irritating. Aside from using actual logic, I want to have some contradictory bible verses to sling at them.
[–]Montisa2008 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Made me LOL
[–]googlelight 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I always thought it would be cool if he bothered to hang around a little longer maby he tried to have a conversation with any of them I would think it would be at least as bad as talking sense to a fundi now days and was like nope failed experiment on to the next thing
[–]peanut_butta_jellay 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I lol'd
[–]JoesephH1986 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I'm not trying to defend the Bible, but if you are actually reading the Garden of Eden story and interpreting it literally you need to take a biblical literature class.
2,000 years ago that story was known to be allegory. No one actually believed there was a tree that someone ate fruit off of. It was just symbolic of man experimenting and abandoning good for evil.
Now of course, all of Christianity's teachings are still false, but don't read something that is known to be allegorical and make fun of it for not being literally true and pretend that proves God doesn't exist.
That'd be like me saying Cthulu isn't real so obviously H.P. Lovecraft never existed.
[–]Jovh 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
But hey it was one crazy party amirite?
[–]Slamzeeny 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
This started a huge war on my fb wall. People say that's an exaggeration, I say; "No actually, it's fucking not."
[–]chillyhellion 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
It's an oversimplification. It's funny how r/atheism gets all riled up when someone posts that picture of "atheists believe in nothing and that nothing erupted from nothing for no reason", and then turn around and post something like this. Both posts are equally oversimplified, and slightly insulting to the ideology being mocked. If you as a community want to climb up on your high horse whenever someone makes an unfair statement about atheism, then start by setting a higher standard.
[–]ModernDemagogue 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
It's not an exaggeration, its actually just a completely fucking wrong representation of Christianity.
[–]tierranieve -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
Although this is a repost, I always love seeing it. I laugh every time.
[–]SoFunAnon 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
You must be easily amused.
[–]tierranieve 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Some would say so, some would say I'm hard to please when it comes to internet humor.
All in all, this is a silly post that is mocking the basic fundamentals of Christianity. I think logical fallacies that have been simplified are funny, but hey, humor is subjective.
[–]doctorspooge 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I just don't know which part to correct first, so I just won't bother.
[–]ALostCirclejerker -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
I get it!
You're jokingly oversimplying biblical events the way Fundies oversimplify the events of the big bang!
Just like it's completely stupid to explain the big bang as "a bunch of stuff exploding out of nowhere", it's equally ridiculous and rather hypocritical to state the events of the bible in such a manner! Regardless of one's faith or lack thereof in the bible's contents, it is foolish to so woefully and incorrectly abbreviate its events, let alone with such an obvious bias!
/r/circlejerk really makes me feel like I'm posting on /r/atheism sometimes, I swear.
[–]postguy2 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Yours would be another post I'd add to the subreddit I speak of here.
[–]the_justified -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago
This is all well and good, except that this it's a completely wrong understanding of what Christianity actually believes. Other than that, it's totally accurate.
[–]greyraven75 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
Which part is wrong? The part where the Trinity makes no sense whatsoever or the the part where a blood sacrifice is paid because God's moral philosophy demands that ALL HUMANS FOR ALL TIME are to be punished for the mistake of just two people?
[–]NukeThePope 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago
You really hate it when that silly shit is presented in plainly understandable language, don't you? If you're suffering from cognitive dissonance, don't blame us, blame your parents for stuffing this nonsense into your head.
[–]Mormon_Informer 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Cognitive dissonance is an unrelated issue. That fact is that OP's image is wrong on almost every point.
No Christians believe God created men with original sin. Many Christians don't even believe in the concept of original sin which originates in Catholicism and is refuted by many Protestants.
The point on impregnation is the only somewhat valid one. Most Christian sects disregard the fact that divine intervention is, in fact, impregnation in Mary's case. The sects that do believe in this sort of divine impregnation consider it was either the Father or the Holy Ghosts that did it, not Christ himself. For instance, there is scripture that says "she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matthew 1:18)
Jesus didn't kill himself. That's the most ridiculous one of the lot.
God never condemned anyone to sin. So "saving them from a sin to which he condemned them" is a fallacious understanding. God created men perfectly. Men became imperfect of their own choice. Now this naturally leads to a philosophical discussion of "well, a perfect being would never choose to become imperfect, it'd be against a 'perfect nature'." But this is more or less a misunderstanding of the proper usage of "perfect" in this context.
[–]postguy2 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I keep meaning to make a subreddit specifically to link to all the times theists come into r/atheism, like you, saying, "No, you totally got this scripture/story/belief wrong!" Yet don't provide any clarification whatsoever on what is wrong about it.
I haven't yet thought of a creative name that captures the process of running in, yelling 'Nuh uh!' and running away.
[–]PooGod 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Fleeting apologetics?
fleeing from debate?
duck, duck, theist?
drive-by rebuttals?
nah nah nah nah naaah nah i cant here you?
hear no evil?
tag, you're misinterpreting my scripture?
Personally, I really like the ring to r/duckducktheist
[–]mfdoc12 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago
Seems to include the critical components.
[–]FreeGiraffeRides 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
Right, it's not His fault bitch ate an apple.
The rest is accurate, though.
[–]Abiding_Lebowski 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Surely these are words from a great theological discussion!
[–]Eretan -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
You do not understand what original sin is. Fail.
[–]adamdavid85 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Perhaps you'd care to explain, then?
[–]Eretan 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
According to Christianity, which I was raised with but now actually despise, God did not "create" man with original sin. Original sin was something resulting from Adam's decision to disobey God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. This break from Adam and Eve's relationship with God forever tainted mankind, making (during the Old Testament) sacrifice necessary to atone for sins and (during the New Testament, post Jesus' death) accepting a personal relationship with Jesus (or a couple of other methods, depending on the particular denomination).
This is a central problem with all you little "atheists." You all hate religion fervently, but your lack of knowledge regarding religion completely undermines your credibility most of the time.
Don't believe me? Wikipedia that shit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin#History_of_the_doctrine.
Let the downvotes commence!
I was raised a devout Catholic, and I've read the bible cover to cover numerous times.
It's true that they weren't created with original sin, but all of their progeny bear it by no fault of their own. Correcting that small error in the image wouldn't make it any less ridiculous. It's amoral regardless of the source (nevermind the stupid shit like blood sacrifice).
Also, they didn't exactly unleash some taint on mankind that God didn't know about or couldn't control. He cursed them with it. (Gen 3:16-19) Like the spiteful little cunt his character is.
[–]kroge -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
I was going to post something constructive, but then I realized I was in /r/atheism
[–]Lanceloted -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
You left out his most famous miracle! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8kOQ2zvBfU
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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