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Atheism is clearly the primary origin of our world's violence and hatred. (i.imgur.com)
submitted 3 months ago by fon_tina
[–]SaysQuack 73 points74 points75 points 3 months ago
"Praise Richard Dawkins" HAHAHA that was great!
[–]burntham77 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Yeah, why did I laugh at that panel?
[–]matttjonez -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 months ago
TOO SOON.
[–]Mowehner 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago
I thought that too for a minute. Then was like naw, nothing is too soon now a days. The faster the better.
[–]matttjonez 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
That's what she said.
[–]Toaka 7 points8 points9 points 3 months ago
Too soon, executus.
[–]DrkJkr 16 points17 points18 points 3 months ago
Lol at that kids reaction
[–]Ragnalypse 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I'd be scared if someone wanted to waste my time with Nietzsche.
[–]N61b5Y 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago
Since when is reading Nietzsche a waste of time? Most of his works are a bit hard to understand but when you do I think you will actually learn something new from it, Nietzche's works are a good read whether you agree with him or don't.
[–]Ragnalypse -7 points-6 points-5 points 3 months ago
Same could be said for the bible.
[–]tian_arg 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
UPvote, I changed "Nietzsche" for "Bible" and you're actually right, a lot of people say something along those lines...
[–]Zkenny13 -7 points-6 points-5 points 3 months ago
Downvote.
[–]HighschoolFreshmen -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
downvote, just because they're equally wrong doesn't mean they're equally stupid. Nietsche is like a curious middle schooler while priests are like toddlers.
[–]LukaCola -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago
Does Nietzche have anything to do with political nihilism?
Cause out of all political philosophies, that one drives me batty. Had a nice long talk with one before, concluded that it is a very incomplete and generally unrealistic philosophy. The whole "artificial" nonsense is terribly aggravating. Might've just been who I discussed it with, but he was well versed on the subject.
[–]bapzannigan 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Nah he wasn't. He got labelled as a nihilist for holding the belief that life is inherently meaningless, but people can create their own personal meaning.
[–]TheDiscoBastard 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
He looks more confused than scared.
[–]avert_your_maize 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
That helmet in the second panel actually looks useful.
[–]Bobert0 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I do believe that we have found our new headgear.
[–]SilentHipster 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
"If those damn atheists would stop questioning everything, we'd all be happy." - Pope Ficus II.
[–]SimilarImage 39 points40 points41 points 3 months ago
This is an automated response
FAQ | Send Feedback | Report Error
[–]kent_eh 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
Hey, 3 weeks isn't too bad
With the rate of growth around here, it's new for a lot of people
[–]TheLankiestNinja 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Nothing like getting called out on a repost... even if IgotcalledoutTOO
[–]heygabbagabba 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Did the pope ever say that?
Popes say the darndest things.
[–]postguy2 14 points15 points16 points 3 months ago
Wow, 5 hours and not one idiot has brought up the fallacious argument of "Mao, Pol Pot, and Stalin" as examples? I am shocked. Usually it takes 10 minutes. Faith in humanity strengthened.
[–]onlynickleft 12 points13 points14 points 3 months ago*
So during the Stalinist era, the Soviet Union wasn't under state atheism? The suppression of religious freedom and practice never occurred? Millions weren't tortured and killed?
I think we need to chalk up all attrocities to the subhuman monsters that committed them and the fact that they were just terrible human beings in general. Further reducing it to religious or political views ignores the real problem; the pursuit of power and control over the masses by any means.
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 3 months ago
Most of them disliked religion because it organised with their plans to create a pseudo-religious state-religion of leader worship.
The fact they were atheists was not their motivation. They didn't say "IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM", yet millions of people have died in the name of religion.
[–]Hoodwink 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
To be fair, they could have been atheists themselves and decided that the masses needed something religious to worship.
[–]hoppyfrog 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Bingo! "Mao, Pol Pot, and Stalin" WERE the religion, the same as is going on in North Korea right now. You either believe and worship the whadeverthefukhecallshimself Leader or you go to Re-education Camp.
[–]hacksoncode 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
The problem isn't religions (or lack thereof) per se. The problem is ideologies. Communism is primarily a political ideology, that happens to view religions as dangerous competitors to their ideology. Religions are inherently ideologies.
Atheism is not an ideology. It might be associated with an ideology, but by itself it is the exactly opposite of an ideology.
That's the difference.
[–]onlynickleft 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Granted, but semantics aside the results are the same.
[–]Kilkun 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Emotion makes one subhuman, not the destruction of the production of chemicals in a brain.
[–]alwaysmispells1word 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
So you get to pretend that the crusades were about religion and not the pope's political power, but they don't get to point out that communism is inherently atheistic?
double standards are kewl, huh? Make us all seem so rational!
[–]cyanCrusader 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
Think about the motivations of the common people involved. Do you think the average footsoldier in the crusades was interested or even aware of the political implications? Of course not. They were in it for the jeebus.
Much the same, I doubt the russians were in it to get rid of gods. They were in it to get rid of their useless aristocrats and try to fight for better lives.
[–]DuchySleeps 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
That's a great point, the ones in power can evoke the name of god to further their goals, but it takes the belief of the common man to give him power at all.
[–]Mojobee 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Don't worry this argument is at least as fallacious.
[–]postguy2 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
You mean the OP? It's not, at all, because it shows violence that happened because of religion. Do you think Muslims would kill themselves for Allah if they didn't believe in Allah?
[–]Mojobee 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago*
I believe that Muslim terrorism is largely created by the West for propaganda and other political objectives - that is when I take the evidence into account.
The issue of violence, believe it or not, is more complex than you might imagine.
[–]njm1314 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
People claim Pol Pot was an atheist? I always thought he was a Buddhist.
[–]the_traveler -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 months ago
Not sure if troll, or just ignorant of Buddhism.
[–]Agent-A 8 points9 points10 points 3 months ago
People have this view of Buddhism of being only kittens, rainbows and enlightenment. In fact, fundamentalist Buddhism is a thing that exists and encourages those who are healthy and well-off to look down on those who are not. People with disease, or living in poverty, or even victims of crime are thought to be receiving their karmic punishment for things they did in a previous life, and so are not to be helped or empathized with. This can be taken a step further to say that the people THEY are oppressing are in fact deserving of the oppression.
[–]Lordveus 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
You can actually start wars in the name of Buddhism. Ask Japan, they've quelled multiple revolutions about it.
Okay, that's not what I'm talking about. Buddhism doesn't have a deity. It's an atheistic religion.
[–]4chans_for_pussies 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Did you just say athesitic religion? Look over there, a Scot-Korean!
[–]snarkamedes 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Yes, he is there - but he's no true Scot-Korean!
[–]bapzannigan 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
It is possible in a literal sense. Atheism meaning without god, so a religion without a deity could be an "atheistic religion," but in modern usage atheist means non-religious.
[–]the_traveler -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago*
When you say Pol Pot was a Buddhist, you are still saying he was an atheist.
Holy fuck, guys.
[–]deeptime 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago
Actually laughed out loud. Thanks for sharing this.
[–]DraugrMurderboss 4 points5 points6 points 3 months ago
I like to point fingers at what belief system causes the most violence. If only we lived in a world without religion, it would be completely violence free!
[–]BipolarBear0 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Science damn you, United Atheist Alliance!
[–]RoamingLoser 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Science smite you, Allied Atheist Alliance!
I'm here to call about a roll over on i-94. Yeah my car's in the ditch right now.
[–]slapdashbr 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I've seen that before, though it's still funny. I think the best panel by far is "let's read Nietzsche and cuddle." Fuckin cracks me up
[–]wolfiepop 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
The celibacy of Catholic Priests has always been something I don't understand. Who ever thought it would be a GOOD idea to create "jobs" that (apparently) require love, understanding and a vast, wise knowledge of the world, which can only be filled by men who haven't ever had sex, never had a sexual thought about a woman, don't have families (but yet get called father).
How are these people in any position to give advice? Or spiritual/emotional guidance? I don't mean to generalize or offend, but there's something not natural about never wanting sex or anything in your WHOLE life? :s
Sorry if this seems really slowpokey but I was raised buddhist (still am) and thought catholic monks had a similar "time frame" in which to be monks as buddhist monks do :s
[–]bapzannigan -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
I don't want to be the sexual correctness police, but asexuality is a thing and I wouldn't necessarily call it unnatural. Your point about being unable to give advice to the people who need it most however is very valid.
[–]wolfiepop 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I didn't mena that asexuality was unnatural, I meant more where they literally train themselves to never think of what they find attractive. Some catholic priests and monks are wonderful people and they are obviously truly asexual. All of them aren't which is -probably- why perversions are known to occur (i' no psychologist, I just think there must be some sexual frustration? )
[–]Knubinator 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
I laughed way too hard at panels 2 and 5.
[–]loyalone 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Shit, this I gotta show to my family. They call me sarcastic.
[–]texas_ironman93 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Maybe we should spread rational inquiry by the sword... just saying...
[–]science_diction 9 points10 points11 points 3 months ago
I normally like Matt Bors, but the Civil War box section of the comic was complete bunk. Christianity played a significant role in the abolitionist movement.
[–]butterflymonk 13 points14 points15 points 3 months ago
Watch Confederate States of America on Netflix, makes you realize that Christianity swings both ways when it comes to slavery but the people who wrote the Bible were certainly pro-slavery.
[–]AKstraightedge 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
The people who wrote the Bible were former slaves, mr butterfly. IT SAYS THAT RIGHT THAR IN MY BIBBLE!
[–]Lordveus 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Pro-slavery, in the Old Testament, yes. Advocating the systematic and institutional madhouse that existed in the clolonial model, not so much.
[–]MrImmoli 17 points18 points19 points 3 months ago
And it was used to justify slavery...
[–]epicwinguy101 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
So it sorta cancels out? Slavery is older than Christianity, so it didn't really start it. It just kinda went with the flow.
[–]FrankWeast 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
There were also many economic and social reasons for justifying slavery, such as the claim that slavery strengthened the Negro population by civilizing them, to say that if they didn't have their religious justification they would have just given up and not simply fallen on one of their other myriad justifications, is simply false.
[–]MrImmoli -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
Did I say that slavery would not have existed without religious justification? No. Don't raise up strawmen.
[–]MyNameIsChar 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Confederate does not equal theist or pro-slavery. All it means is that you don't believe a government thousands of miles away should be able to dictate to you how you live your life in your own state.
Nor do States Rights mean Pro-Slavery. Just like supporting free speech doesn't mean you support what people might say with it, supporting States Rights doesn't mean you support what some states do with it.
Southerners fought mostly because an army was invading their homeland. Most of them were too poor to even afford slaves in the first place.
[–]NattyB 6 points7 points8 points 3 months ago
lincoln: "One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."
james madison generations earlier: ""It seems now to be pretty well understood that the real difference of interests lies not between the large and small but between the Northern and Southern states. The institution of slavery and its consequences form the line."
this article by david von drehle for time magazine shut the book on the states' rights argument for me personally.
[–]MyNameIsChar 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I'm sure it did, and I respect your beliefs.
I'm simply saying that supporting States Rights isn't supporting slavery - the same way me supporting a Free Internet isn't supporting Child Pornography Websites, or websites dedicated to teaching radicals how to build bombs at home.
You understand what I'm trying to say, yes?
[–]NattyB 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
of course i agree we can advocate for states' rights without advocating for slavery (i do).
but in the context of the comment you replied to, and reading your last two sentences again ("mostly"..."most of them"), i think you're incorrect that the driving force for most confederates was states' rights and not defense of slavery.
[–]MyNameIsChar -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
If an armed group of people showed up at your house intent upon burning it to the ground with your family trapped inside, wouldn't you fight too?
[–]NattyB 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago*
there are multiple issues of "my livelihood is at stake here" going on for an individual confederate soldier, and i imagine a lot of fear and false information. i don't lay blame for the war with southern family men. but i do think they were defending the institution of slavery, which to them represented a way of life that was being taken from them. sherman's march was vile and despicable, but it took place in november and december of 1864. the war lasted from 1861-1865. both sides were complicit in picking up weapons and organizing large armies.
EDIT: century mix-up, dummy.
[–]RojoDiablo 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
I know it's a simple mistake, but erm.. check your centuries there, sir.
[–]NattyB 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
oops. edited, thanks.
[–]kent_eh 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
the war lasted from 1961-1965.
As a Canadian I'm not fully up on American history, but I'm pretty sure that war didn't happen during my lifetime.
[–]MyNameIsChar 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago*
Yes, but the Confederate States of America never invaded the United States, they did fire on a fort in the CSA, occupied by Union soldiers who refused to leave. Simply owning weapons and having the people to fire them aren't grounds to attack another country.
Bad things sometimes happen to the people who live in a country that is being invaded. It's happened since people first started hitting each other with stone clubs and spears. It happened to many European nations when the Nazis invaded, it happened to North Vietnamese villages during the Vietnam war, and it's happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And to the Union I'm sure it was about slavery, that's just about all they heard, but to the people being invaded it's because there is a huge group of soldiers five miles away and they are marching right towards my house.
War is (almost always) a stupid, useless gesture that men who won't have to fight it believe is necessary.
EDIT: Have some upvotes, my friend. Reddit is about intelligent and insightful conversation, you have done these things well.
[–]NattyB 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
thanks, man. no ill feelings over here. my parents are from florida and georgia, respectively, so it's been an on-again-off-again journey for me, trying to understand the motivations behind the civil war.
[–]MyNameIsChar 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Where did you arrive? Or has your journey not ended yet? :)
[–]xenofexk 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
Yes, but the Confederate States of America never invaded the United States
Gettysburg.
After being invaded they retaliated - as any nation would.
[–]mastermike14 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Battle of Fort Stevens
[–]MyNameIsChar 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The CSA was invaded first - then retaliated as any nation would.
I'm sorry, I should have worded my reply differently.
you make it seem as if the union started the civil. The CSA started it when they attacked Fort Sumter. They invaded all the way to washington dc. How can you say they were defending themselves?
The Confederate States fired on Fort Sumter, which was in the CSA, but occupied by Soldiers still loyal to the Union, who refused to lay down their arms and go back to the United States. And this only after days of waiting and asking for them to leave.
In the beginning, if those in the Fort had just mounted up and left things might have turned out differently, but that really is a "What if" storyline.
but occupied by Soldiers still loyal to the Union, who refused to lay down their arms and go back to the United States. And this only after days of waiting and asking for them to leave.
Imagine how the union felt about 11 states refusing to lay down arms o_0
There's a difference between a single Fort saying "No" and 11 states with millions of residents saying "We don't like where this is going, we're going to form our own government."
Kind of the same way we said "Meh, you guys aren't representing our interests, we're going to form our own government." to the British.
I'm paraphrasing, of course.
[–]hacksoncode 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
However, supporting a state's "right" to practice slavery is supporting slavery.
Supporting a free and open internet is supporting Child Pornography websites.
Same logic.
If you specifically support the internet's right (whatever that means... only people, and collections thereof, have rights) to host child pornography, then of course you're supporting child pornography... kind of by definition.
Of course, "the internet" doesn't have rights, so I assume you mean supporting specific people that host child pornography.
If you specifically support a state's right to legalize and practice slavery, then of course you're supporting slavery.
Supporting state's rights in general doesn't mean anything unless you specify what you mean by that. States lack lots of rights, even explicitly in the Constitution.
[–]kiwiez -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?
[–]absurdistfromdigg 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Bullshit. The "War of Northern Aggression", as you apologists like to call it, was indeed about states' rights. Specifically, about the right of one human being to own another.
[–]MyNameIsChar -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago
Do I need to recite to you the numerous atrocities committed against my homeland during the war? What about the March to the Sea? How about the abhorrent condition most of the states were left in after the war? That's exactly what a group of people solely concerned with the conditions another group has to live in acts.
If a big motherfucking group of armed people showed up at my door intent upon burning down my house I would fight too.
Right. Because dem darkies just loved working the plantations, didn't they? Please don't talk to me about atrocities; all of what passes for southern culture is an atrocity. Warren Zevon's rewrite of "Sweet Home Alabama" nailed it.
Sweet Tea, Live Oaks and Jai Alai are abominations.
(Note: I didn't downvote you, I believe that downvoting is rather rude, and I've never done it.)
Not necessarily (though you WAY oversweeten your tea), but slavery, white supremacy, and the Klan are, for starters, as was the entire plantation system.
Personally, I don't care. I wish we'd cut you loose 150 years ago. Knowing that my federal taxes are going to fix your potholes galls me to no end. And yes, unless you live in Tejas, your state receives far more tax money from that evil Federal gubmint than it pays in.
We over sweeten our tea? It's you people who make it so horribly bitter. It's tea not coffee.
White Supremacists and the Ku Klux Klan members are radicals.
Radical Muslims blow up buildings, cars and schools.
Radical Christians refuse Gays their rights for the way they were born.
Seems like you are applying that glass to some things and not others.
Personally, I like hitting a pot hole in my pick em up truck. That's why I have a dirt driveway.
[–]absurdistfromdigg -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
White Supremacists and the Ku Klux Klan members are radicals. Radical Muslims blow up buildings, cars and schools. Radical Christians refuse Gays their rights for the way they were born. Seems like you are applying that glass to some things and not others.
WTF are you talking about? The comments were about southern culture. I have plenty of ranting I can direct at Muslims and Christians as well.
BTW, the state of your driveway has nothing to do with the relative amount of taxes you pay vs. the services provided you by the Feds. Last time I checked your driveway wasn't considered a public street.
You said that my culture is White Supremacy, Ku Klux Klan members and plantation systems. I informed you that these are radical groups, not unlike those in many of the religions we make fun of on a daily basis. Then I remarked that you weren't applying the same logic you use to (rightfully) categorize religious radicals in this instance.
I never said it was - just that I like hitting potholes.
how you characterize the civil war is just ridiculous. The Union was not out to burn down the South. They were not going door to door burning peoples houses down.
Sherman's March to the Sea.
I believe the term is "scorched earth"? I'm not really into slaughtering people, so I'm not sure.
[–]mastermike14 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
im into slaughtering people who have guns and are trying to kill you. That goes both ways though i guess.
They targeted infrastructure and industry, they did not go door to door burning people's houses down
Infrastructure and Industry in the South are roads and farms - people live on farms.
[–]mglongman -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
it's nice to see someone else out there understands.
It helps to be an Atheist, Liberal, Gay Rights Advocating Confederate from Georgia.
[–]Alajoss 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
*Creation Hypothesis
[–][deleted] 3 months ago
[deleted]
[–]adamflint -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
Co-workers? Don't get yourself fired, man.
[–]carlosboozer 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
hey you're not gonna believe this but everyone here already doesn't believe in god
[–]Instantdobie 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
you know, I think it's just people who are violent. I doubt we would've been more peaceful without, in fact I find it hard to believe it wouldnt've been alot worse.
[–]KaneOnThemHoes 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Ah Mr. Bors... you really hit it out of the park with this one.
For those of you who don't know, he's a practicing redditor.
[–]Assaultman67 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Have you ever watched the south park episodes that suggest war is not caused by religion, but actually caused by a difference in opinion between cultures?
Kinda points out the ridiculousity of blaming religion.
[–]Dworks 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
if only everyone in the world would cuddle up and read Nietzsche..
[–]BootyhunterzX 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I love the crusader, it shall be my battle cry!
[–]Annatar420 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Awesome
[–]Xx255q 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
To be fair if that dinit sits people would make up another reason to do thos things
[–]sameg3 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
This is funny because this is a world with only Atheism.
[–]isthiswitty 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I laughed way too hard at the last panel, "Let's read Neizsche and cuddle."
[–]Silenqt_Q 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Appeal to Emotion.
[–]Shioon 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
The Antichrist by Nietzsche has nothing to do with atheism. He wasn't atheist... We are supposed to be smart here...
[–]ronbreddit 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Living in this world has taught me one thing. If you want mass change people are going to have to die. Look at all revolutions, no matter what they are motivated by, and tell me that change wasn't made through violence.
[–]LucifersCounsel 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
Gandhi might have a question or two about your theory.
In my own observation, non-violence only works when it is backed up by a credible threat of violence. In Ghandi's case, the Brits left India because their choice was either negotiate an exit and save face, or have the entire native population rise up and annihilate them.
[–]LucifersCounsel 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Actually, even Gandhi himself said that given the choice between utter slavery and fighting for freedom, he would fight. But he also knew it wasn't necessary. If it could be avoided, it should be.
Now, look at all the "colour" revolutions around the world recently. Most of them were non-violent too.
There's always an exception.
[–]spartaninspace -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 months ago
hey, by the way, ask ol' Luc how Ghandhi's doing down there.
Apparently he was expelled. All my client was willing to tell me was that "damn hippie was too much of a party-pooper".
[–]Gargilius 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Well, technically, theists could argue that atheists, i.e., these other people who stubbornly do not believe in their specific deity or deities are the cause of all problems in the world :-) -- which is why they must come forth and slaughter them all to restore peace and universal love on earth -- amongst likely minded people of course.
[–]LucifersCounsel 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
That's the joke.
[–]Tgg161 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Don't get my intent wrong by me pointing this out, but I think anyone who argues "atheism has led to the greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice" is referring to state atheism.
For example, atheism as enforced by the Khmer Rouge.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 months ago
Oh, right. Otherwise known as Communism.
[–]Taco144 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
As a catholic I've had more problems with Christians than anyone else people who say athirst are evil are too stupid to realize they've never met one.
[–]Bryce2826 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Why did the 9/11 "Praise Richard Dawkins!" Make me laugh so hard? XD
XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD
[–]The_Cooler_King 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Remember that humans didn't always have the resources we have today. How do you know that these poor and uneducated people didn't view religion as you view science today? And with everyone telling them to do so?
Also power is a drug. So those in religion with power were bound to make some bad calls. Leave it in the past unless someone shoves it in your face.
[–]thepastIdwell 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Found this on /b/ back in 2009. Don't care if it's been already pointed out.
[–]j1800 -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 months ago
I know I'll most likely get down voted for not stoking the hate-religion flames. Ignoring the fact that evolution and religion could technically co-exist w/o controversy, I find the main issue to be the human condition, not Ignorance. The questions that plague us as a species ("Why am I here?" "Is there life after death?" "What is the purpose of all of this?") are not easy for everyone to come to terms with. As an atheist I value rationality, logic and intellect in the face of hard questions but I do not, for a second, lose respect for those who have trouble facing such an overwhelmingly scary premise. Maybe that is not respectable here but I'm not sure how we ever plan to mend the fences between believers and atheists if we continue to paint them as ignorant masses. On the other hand, I have never felt more empowered and more driven to be a positive influence in the universe since I became solidified in my non-belief. Believers not being able to conceptualize transcendent life experiences without God is something I don't get.
Problem is that a lot of the people claiming this are making big money from their claims, the "discovery" institute(ironicly named) takes in lots of money from donations, and does, well actually it doesn't do anything, it's like a money machine powered by stupidity. kent "not a doctor" hovind has a similar scam going, averaging 6 million a year and being able to support a theme park that's losing money? The problem is these people are trusted by a small percentage of religious population, this then creates a situation where lies and cheating to gain publicity earns them more money, what reason do they have to stop, religion is pretty much off limits in america, you can't critise them, and why would you? These are professional speakers we've lied to people for years over multiple topics, how much harder is it to find someone who can dispute their claims? The best biologist in the world isn't going to be able to argue cosmology, the best atrophysist can't argue the origins of life, and neither of them are likely to be good public speakers anyway. The end result is a continual spiral of stupid. You're lucky, in India knowledge is valued, you understand that raising the countries IQ raises the standard of living, shame too many people in the rest of the world can't accept that. Whenever I would hear creationists, I would always equate them with the likes of flat-earthers. I had no idea how big this issue was until my 12th grade biotechnology teacher mentioned she had gone for creationist seminars, and how disappointed she was that there are actually people in the world trying to bring this garbage into our schools. Honestly though, I'm as stumped as you are on this issue. I remember meeting a friend who was studying engineering, and is extremely intelligent as well. The weird thing is, he was a creationist! I mean, he runs around applying science to solve day to day problems, but compartmentalizes his logic based on his beliefs. I personally believe that if an intelligent person is a creationist, he is complacent about his beliefs. An intelligent person does not ignore evidence. The reason intelligent people who are non-believers that become creationists later in life still eludes me. Also, an interesting read (you've probably already read it), but I'm throwing it in here anyway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_views_on_evolution I think there's more to it than that. I would say the main appeal of theism is to create an explanation of existence that is meaningful to people. What they really can't grasp is that life meaning is outside of scientific knowledge; science is just telling them that we come from other animals which no matter how you look at it will at least initially put a big hit in the possibility of human consciousness having any external meaning at all. Religion is their preexisting world view but it's not sticking around just because of indoctrination. Religious people can't handle the fact that there really is no blatant evident meaning or purpose of life. They must be of the "it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission" belief system. Living in an extremely fundamentally religious, conservative area, I have seen this sort of thinking play out before, admittedly to a much lesser, local extent.
As best I can understand it, it goes something like this: because many of the fundamental religious folks believe they are the good guys and mean well, the laws, rules and regulations aren't really for them. Those laws, etc., are in place for everyone else who have intentions that aren't/can't possibly be quite so noble. At best, it's very naive thinking on their part. However, in my little corner of the world, the fundies are getting bolder with their "we're the good guys" vocalizations and actions, so I'm not sure it is actually naive. It's maddening and frustrating for those of us who don't hold their particular view. I sincerely hope these people are punished in some way, if only a fine or being disallowed from going to Haiti again. Altogether too often, religious groups are not held accountable in any punitive way for their wrong actions. Although raised catholic, I've been an Atheist since I was around ten years old. My religious mom and sisters have always had a strong default respect for people with religious titles (Father, Reverend, Monsignor, etc.) despite my cries of "Credentials! Credentials!". After all, different religions and/or denominations have different requirements for identical titles, so why should they all be respected equally? That argument never seemed to work. You can't argue with religious people ("because I said so" on a cosmic scale). No, I couldn't convince them without showing them. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony of using evidence to convince religious people.) So I went online and became an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church of Modesto, California. It only took a few minutes to submit, and a few days for my application to be processed and voila! Reverend Haddad. It's perfectly legal and official in the United States. It's also free and I've received no spam. This wasn't entirely enough to convince them that I was legally ordained, but my state-issued "Clergy" License Plate on my car finally did the trick. I told one of my sisters that now when I meet people, they have to call me Reverend, and she said "I would never do that because I don't believe the same things you do" (I'm paraphrasing). I replied with something like "So? You're not Jewish, but you still call a Rabbi a Rabbi don't you?" Now whenever they're introduced to a so-called holy man, I can see a little "oh yeah?" in their eyes. They still have a long way to go. OK, here's the deal: as I and others have pointed out, this doesn't really belong in the atheism section. Though there is significant overlap between the set of people that aren't religious and the set of people that are generally pro-gay on social issues, that doesn't really warrant spamming it into the atheism section. It's kind of like all the climate denialist crap that gets spewed onto the Libertarian subreddit.
TL;DR: I agree that atheism is not a belief system. Rationalism and empiricism would be the belief system most applicable to atheism. (Although they do not apply to all atheists, and are not exclusive to atheists.) They are fundamentally at odds with theism, though people will use compartmentalization to try and have it both ways. What you are saying about the "ism" part of theism is interesting linguistically, but irrelevant philosophically. There is no question that such terms were coined by people with a vested interest in legitimizing their point of view. I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Most theists - especially the early ones who lived in caves or huts, didn't give much thought to epistemology. God came first, then came the rationalizations. This is true from both a historical perspective, and an individual perspective. Parents don't teach their kids about epistemology to prepare them to learn about God. They give them cute children's books with pictures of animals in arks and a friendly looking man healing blind people. At some point the question of how they know this stuff is true comes up. Then suddenly they have a whole new theory about where knowledge comes from. They are nothing but a rationalization to help them believe what they have already decided to believe. Theism comes from indoctrination and a fear of the unknown, not deep philosophical inquiry.
[–]Tobinius 3 points4 points5 points 3 months ago
TL;DR your TL;DR
[–]Residual_Entropy 5 points6 points7 points 3 months ago
Your TL;DR alone was longer than the Silmarillion. Indeed, my middle finger got fatiqued simply scrolling through this behemoth, a veritable leviathan of unformatted text.
As such, I didn't read your post. I wish you luck in typing out more condensed and concise comments in the future - for the benefit of all.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
wow. maybe you should go back to something that can actually occupy your brain.maybe some video game, or a tv with bright flashing lights.
[–][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 3 months ago
Faggot
[–]aknackforslack 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
/b/ called. It misses you.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Believers not being able to conceptualize transcendent life experiences without God is something I don't get.
I think it's because their "transcendent life experiences" are so intrinsically tied up with their belief in their minds. They try to put themselves in our shoes and imagine what life would be like as an atheist. How they do that though, is that they take everything that they believe they get from 'God' and reverse it. Aesthetic values, moral values, the lot. They cannot conceptualize, as you say, that we see all these as separate. They believe that we "throw the baby out with the bathwater", to coin a phrase. It's lazy thinking, often reinforced by their own theologians, who really should know better. The Catholic Church is particularly malignant in this regard. It's almost an article of faith with them. Here's an example of what I mean.
If you listen to that debate, you'll see the expected answer to the examination question posed by this Catholic theologian is "true". You might say, (as some have) that it's just the opinion of one ignorant buffoon, but it's not. This is the official position of the Vatican, as you can see from the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church:
Political community, the human person and a people.
Authority as moral force.
Values and democracy.
Not only are they not trying to damp down the "hate-atheists" flames, as you put it, they're actively fanning them. They just dress it up in fancy rhetoric and "moral teachings", but occasionally the mask slips, as with the priest in the earlier link.
[–]j1800 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
I think there's more to it than that. I would say the main appeal of theism is to create an explanation of existence that is meaningful to people. What they really can't grasp is that life meaning is outside of scientific knowledge; science is just telling them that we come from other animals which no matter how you look at it will at least initially put a big hit in the possibility of human consciousness having any external meaning at all. Religion is their preexisting world view but it's not sticking around just because of indoctrination. Religious people can't handle the fact that there really is no blatant evident meaning or purpose of life. They must be of the "it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission" belief system. Living in an extremely fundamentally religious, conservative area, I have seen this sort of thinking play out before, admittedly to a much lesser, local extent. As best I can understand it, it goes something like this: because many of the fundamental religious folks believe they are the good guys and mean well, the laws, rules and regulations aren't really for them. Those laws, etc., are in place for everyone else who have intentions that aren't/can't possibly be quite so noble. At best, it's very naive thinking on their part. However, in my little corner of the world, the fundies are getting bolder with their "we're the good guys" vocalizations and actions, so I'm not sure it is actually naive. It's maddening and frustrating for those of us who don't hold their particular view. I sincerely hope these people are punished in some way, if only a fine or being disallowed from going to Haiti again. Altogether too often, religious groups are not held accountable in any punitive way for their wrong actions. Although raised catholic, I've been an Atheist since I was around ten years old. My religious mom and sisters have always had a strong default respect for people with religious titles (Father, Reverend, Monsignor, etc.) despite my cries of "Credentials! Credentials!". After all, different religions and/or denominations have different requirements for identical titles, so why should they all be respected equally? That argument never seemed to work. You can't argue with religious people ("because I said so" on a cosmic scale). No, I couldn't convince them without showing them. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony of using evidence to convince religious people.) So I went online and became an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church of Modesto, California. It only took a few minutes to submit, and a few days for my application to be processed and voila! Reverend Haddad. It's perfectly legal and official in the United States. It's also free and I've received no spam. This wasn't entirely enough to convince them that I was legally ordained, but my state-issued "Clergy" License Plate on my car finally did the trick. I told one of my sisters that now when I meet people, they have to call me Reverend, and she said "I would never do that because I don't believe the same things you do" (I'm paraphrasing). I replied with something like "So? You're not Jewish, but you still call a Rabbi a Rabbi don't you?"
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
What they really can't grasp is that life meaning is outside of scientific knowledge; science is just telling them that we come from other animals which no matter how you look at it will at least initially put a big hit in the possibility of human consciousness having any external meaning at all.
Which is something that I don't get. Why do they assume that life HAS to have any external meaning? One day watching TV news stories should convince anyone that it doesn't. It's the only possible explanation for the utter clusterfuck that is life on Earth.
As best I can understand it, it goes something like this: because many of the fundamental religious folks believe they are the good guys and mean well, the laws, rules and regulations aren't really for them. Those laws, etc., are in place for everyone else who have intentions that aren't/can't possibly be quite so noble. At best, it's very naive thinking on their part. However, in my little corner of the world, the fundies are getting bolder with their "we're the good guys" vocalizations and actions, so I'm not sure it is actually naive. It's maddening and frustrating for those of us who don't hold their particular view. I sincerely hope these people are punished in some way, if only a fine or being disallowed from going to Haiti again. Altogether too often, religious groups are not held accountable in any punitive way for their wrong actions.
L2TL;DR
[–]bejayel -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago*
The theory of evolution and christianity cannot coexist. The millions of years it took for us to get where we've evolved to isn't anywhere close to 6000 years.
Evolution itself is an observable fact and exists whether christians acknowledge it or not.
This comic plays directly on every religion calling itself peaceful and saying that atheism is the primary source of evil in the world. How does it not belong here?
[–]shriphani -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 months ago
Secular governments: -> caused the single largest loss of life in WW2. -> caused the brightest people in the world to get together make a weapon and then deployed it over an innocent people.
Please get off your high horse. Even Richard Feynman (atheist) believed that Christian values (I am not even christian myself - devout hindu) are one of the foundations of the western society we enjoy : http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/49/2/Religion.htm
The fact here is that man has always exploited any avenue available to him for personal gain. Had there been no religion, there would definitely have been another motive to unite under and then engage in the same behavior. The best and brightest successfully combined rational thought and decision-making with religion.
The 21st century charlatan is someone who claims to be a man of science (I question everything ! yay science!). The simple fact here is that without faith you can never bootstrap.
[–]heshroot 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
What in the hell were you trying to say in that last paragraph?
Ummm... did you even read that reference? Feynman is talking about the part of religion that comprises ethics, which he clearly and elaborately separates from the metaphysical aspects of religion such as "is there a God".
Basically, he's saying that some people came up with some ethical rules that seem to work well... and then asking now how do we promulgate and reinforce these rules without relying on metaphysical claims about "god", because of course these metaphysical claims are (more politely phrased) nonsense?
[–]azsheepdog -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
So just because Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot did not cry out "In the name of Atheism" before they mass murdered, they dont get credit for thier atrocities?
[–]drtylb8 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
(Sorry about the wall of text, everyone.)
They weren't committing violence in the name of spreading atheism, they committed violence to establish a new political system (in the case of Mao), to solidify their rule (in the case of Stalin), and Pol Pot...well, I've not done research into the massacres he committed, but I'm reasonably certain that his atheism, if he was an atheist which again I do not know, did not justify his atrocities.
A few of the depicted acts have other motivations as well, and they're not entirely accurate. The Bible was on both sides of the slavery debate, for example. However, Al-Qaeda's political action was motivated (at least at first and in part) by America's stationing troops on Saudi soil, which they were deeply offended by because they viewed Saudi soil as holy. The Crusades were motivated by a desire to reclaim what the involved parties believed was lost land because of their religion. And so on.
The primary impetus of some of these acts were religious in nature. The primary impetus of the acts committed by the men you name were not religious in the same sense.
[–]his_boots_are_yellow 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Both were in the name of an ideology, whether the ideology was based around a religious belief or a political one at the core they seem to me to both be the same. The inquisition was not about the spread of Christianity, it was about solidifying the popes power, and the crusades were as much about papal control of very valuable trade routes as they were about religious belief.
The common people are told they are doing it for god/communism etc, the ideologies can be interchanged, but the acts would still occur regardless of the existence or non existence of religion.
I would not call myself a Christian, but one thing the bible makes clear is that the followers of Jesus wanted him to be a king and to take a political position of leadership, but he refused to take part in or lead the revolt that the Jews at the time expected the "messiah" would bring about. In my opinion this would be due to the knowledge that political structures bring corruption and the desire for power.
[–]FlutterShy- 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
The fact that they were atheists is inconsequential. It was not their atheism that enabled them to perform those acts. It was not their atheism that drove them to perform those acts. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, 9/11, and the pedophilia in the catholic church are all a direct result of religion making people believe their actions are justified or allowing pedophiles near children. Slavery is permitted and even regulated through laws in the old testament, eventually leading to the civil war.
Your argument is invalid.
[–]azsheepdog -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
But thats exactly how post modernism works. Its a nice convenient argument for you that the only people who kill in the name of atheism when in fact athiesm just frees you from all moral absolutes and allows you to do anything you want. Atheism says there is no god therefore man is the highest power. And since man is the highest then its not mans fault because he is the product of his enviroment.
[–]SoFFacet 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago*
I'm not sure where the recent fad of trying to connect atheism to atrocities came from, but I swear this must be the most common thing I post on r/atheism about these days:
There is no atheist gospel or other arbitrary source of atheistic authority that tells atheists how to act, ergo it is impossible to claim that anyone does anything "in the name of" atheism. There is simply no such thing.
In contrast, theists (including but not limited to Christians) can draw on real theistic doctrines which do prescribe very specific behaviors which led to the crusades, inquisitions, slavery, jihads alluded to in the OP's comic.
To elaborate, the only way to try to squirm out of that corner is to insist that if the atheist had been a theist, he would have "known better." Putting aside for a moment the problems with arbitrary moral rubrics, this is a fairly disingenuous claim in light of all the theistic doctrines that could actually be used to explicitly justify the atrocities instead.
Modern Human Moral Understanding (MHMU) is the source of moral reasoning that law-abiding atheists use to decide right and wrong, law-abiding theists use to determine which theistic doctrines to discard, and is the source of the human rights postulated primarily during the enlightenment and guaranteed by the secular governments of western civilization, including that of the United States.
The difference between the theist-atrocity and atheist-atrocity relationships is that atheism, which prescribes no behavior, potentially leads to atrocity only through the agency of an individually deficient MHMU, which is completely independent from any belief or disbelief in deities. Thus atheism could most disparagingly be described as an unwitting accomplice to any atrocities committed by an atheist. In contrast, theism seeks to override MHMU with arbitrary moral imperatives of its own. Thus theism is more of an active conspirator, accessory, and mastermind of atrocities committed on the basis of its doctrines.
But let us imagine a hypothetical religion that condones none of negative behaviors that MHMU considers barbaric and immoral, and only prescribes the positive behaviors that MHMU supports. At that point we would wonder what the point of the religious moral imperatives is, since it is completely superfluous to MHMU.
[–]FlutterShy- 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Its a nice convenient argument for you that the only people who kill in the name of atheism when in fact athiesm just frees you from all moral absolutes and allows you to do anything you want.
Wut?
I really want to refute your point but I just can't understand what you're trying to say.
its not mans fault because he is the product of his enviroment.
This is silly logic. By this logic, murderers should not be punished because "it was inevitable that the murderer was going to murder because of his home life." Simply because we don't believe in a deity doesn't mean or even imply that we can't be held responsible for our actions.
Stalin was mentally unstable and that is why he killed people. It has nothing to do with his belief or lack of belief in a god.
I am a brony and I like to visit coffee shops. You cannot say, simply because I didn't explicitly state my intentions at the coffee shop, that I intend to watch My Little Pony in the coffee shop. The fact that I am a brony and the fact that I enjoy a hot cup of coffee have nothing to do with each other. Similarly, the fact that Stalin was an atheist and that Stalin committed mass murder are inconsequential. Stalin would have killed just as many people if he had been a Mormon.
[–]Lordveus 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
And, Pope Innocent III would've used any damnable excuse to sack Jerusalem and do the Crusades. It ain't philsophy that makes somebody a dick. It's being a dick that makes a man a dick. Stain used communism, Hitler used racial theory, Popes have used Catholicism, and Khomeini (sic, unsure how to spell his name) thumps a Koran. You can use any philosophy, good or bad, to ruin everything.
What I said in my original comment is that if it were not for religion, pedophiles in the catholic church would not have been left alone with children. The same statement applies to Pope Innocent III and the crusades. If Christianity had never existed, the pope would not have been in a position of power and there would never have been a reason to sack Jerusalem in the first place. Atheism did not put those dictators in power. Let's not forget that,
is what started this argument. I am arguing that the original comic does not apply to atheism in the same way that it applies to religion. Atheism didn't cause the holocaust or any other mass murder. I agree that philosophy doesn't make somebody a dick. I just believe that religion enables dicks to be even bigger dicks.
I'd argue that religion's just been around longer than secular philsophy. I'm sure political theory will catch up in teh body count if we give it a few centuries.
Political theory doesn't have anything to do with atheism... Which is what I'm talking about.
I do agree, however.
[–]Lordveus 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
To be honest, I don't know that it has anything to do with Christianity, either. But, it's doen mroe damage in my book. The thign is, I'm sure that in eventuality, some jerk-ass will use a mixture of atheist and nihilist philosophy to justify some atrocity, probably one with a very well thought-out bomb. Still, the "primary cause" of our world's violence is a mixture of greed and egocentrism. And people who can't take a joke. Screw that noise.
[–]azsheepdog 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Similarly, the fact that Stalin was an atheist and that Stalin committed mass murder are inconsequential. Stalin would have killed just as many people if he had been a Mormon.
You cant possibly know if he was mormon that that might not have influence him in a different way where that might not have happened.
Ill try to explain it another way:
I wont speak of all religions but Christianty has a set of values or moral absolutes in which descisions are made. Atheism simply states there is no god therefore man is the highest authority. If man is the highest authority each man gets to create his own set of moral values. (this has nothing to do with accountability for actions as that only has to do with the local governments who hold them accountable which in these cases they were all heads of thier goverments so there was no accountability.)
By being an atheist such as Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao they created a value system that suited thier needs best as opposed to a religious belief using the example of the USA where the United States Declaration of Independence states:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Stalin was mentally unstable. While it may be less likely that he would have killed so many people as a Mormon, I doubt that he wouldn't have killed people.
By being an atheist such as Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao they created a value system that suited thier needs best
I understand that not believing in a higher power would open someone up to new moral possibilities but I stand by my claim that it was not their atheism that caused them to commit their atrocities. It was something else entirely, whereas the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, and raping the altar-boy were only possible through the existence of religion.
again its awfully convient to be able to say just because thier atheist, thier atrocities dont count unless they scream out "In the name of Athiesm" before they collectivly murdered over 100 million people.
Obviously you will state this is a biased source but were at an impasse in the discussion. http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_Mass_Murder
[–]FlutterShy- 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
You just sited "Conservapedia."
There is not a discussion.
[–]imro 2 points3 points4 points 3 months ago
Yes. Show me the atheist ideology they were engaging in. Outside of raping children, their acts were justified by their very believe in a god.
Atheist dont have a specific ideology other than that there is no God. They can have any ideology they want. It is the root of moral relevance.
[–]imro 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
Exactly! Saying that they were atheist has no more relevance than saying that they had dark hair.
It is the root of moral relevance.
I am sorry, but I do not know what you mean by that.
[–]azsheepdog 1 point2 points3 points 3 months ago
explained in another post but will re-explain:
In religion morals are set by the god/religion. There is an absolute truth that is given by someone higher than man.
In atheism man is the highest authority so morals are dictated by each individual. Moral relevance states that each individual can have thier own truth as it fits them.
So the examples of atheist who killed collectivly over 100 million people to suit thier idealogical needs. It made sense in thier moral outlook that what they were doing was ok by thier moral standards.
I am not sure if you are explaining how religion should work theoretically, or how religion works practically. Because if the later, then as we can see from judaism and christianity, there is no absolute truth in morality, since we, as a society, have greatly improved on their "absolutely true" version of morality.
each individual can have thier own truth as it fits them
so long as it confirms to societal pressures.
So the examples of atheist who killed collectivly over 100 million people to suit thier idealogical needs.
Exactly what I am saying. Their ideology did not stem from atheism no more then it did from the color of their skin. As you argue later, atheism did not stop them from doing it and I agree with you. So I guess what you could say is that if these people were religious, it might not have happened. Which is totally different from "atheism caused them do it".
Their ideology did not stem from atheism
Thier idealogy absolutly came from thier athiest beliefs. They were publically opposed to all religions and most of the killings were directed right at people of different religious faiths. They wanted to abolish all religions within thier state.
I am not sure if you are explaining how religion should work theoretically, or how religion works practically
Religion sets a standard for self improvement. Because people take it out of context and twist it support thier political needs is not the fault of the religion, its the fault of the ignorant for following someone who went away from the teachings.
Tom Jefferson:" If A Nation Expects To Be Ignorant And Free... It Expects What Never Was And Never Will Be."
If you think communism came from atheism, you need to go read Marx. Communism is first and foremost a political ideology about ownership of capital and how it (allegedly) damages people.
It's only atheist because it claims the state is the highest authority. The opposition to religion is framed entirely in these terms, as being a threat to the power of the state.
I think you are replying to the wrong post, I did not mention anything about communism.
Who were you talking about when you said "Thier idealogy absolutly came from thier athiest beliefs. They were publically opposed to all religions", then? Communists are the only ones that have killed over 100 million people recently.
Again, atheism has no doctrine or "holly" text that told them to commit those atrocities. Their "weeding out religion" ideology came from Marxism–Leninism and not from atheism.
Either there is ultimate moral truth in religion or there is self improvement. You can not have both.
Oh, I have forgot about the "out of context" clause. That changes everything, where do I sign up? I like your reasoning. When people commit atrocities based on biblical texts, they are doing so out of context. Since there is no context with atheism to be had, atheist are fully responsible for wrong doings of every person that happened to be an atheist. Very convenient.
Huh? why?
Oh, I have forgot about the "out of context" clause....
No I fully accept what they did was in the name of religion. And will even gladly stack the good AND evil done in the name of Christianity and compare that to the good AND evil done by athiest any day of the week.
But just as someone has a cookbook with a recipe on how to spit barbacue a pig but everyone gets worms because the cook didnt follow the recipe and undercooked the meat. Its not the recipe books fault that the cook didnt follow the instructions.
But athiest are the ones who generally pick and choose which athiest they want to accept credit for since athiests stand for nothing consistant they can use whatever moral standards they want for thier selection process.
Very simple: either smashing children against rocks is ultimately moral or it needs improvement. Do I need to go on?
... since athiests stand for nothing consistant ...
I think you are onto something here. Outside of not believing in god there is nothing consistent that connects them.
[–]aec10 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
No god, no absolute moral standards, and no fear of punishment. So you can do whatever the fuck you want if it is convenient to you.
No, you cannot do what ever you want. There is still societal pressure, evolutionary pressure etc. There were and are people outside of judeo-christian believe system that did and do just fine.
Of course, but that doesn't mean that all people obey those pressures. There are many assholes in the world who don't give a fuck about anyone else (and yes, they come from all religions).
However, I think you would agree that everything else being equal, someone who doesn't fear any punishment is more likely to do something bad.
I am not sure if I agree with you. We have very tangible punishments in this world (incarceration, death penalty) and it still does not stop people. US being one of the more religious among developed countries has also the most people in prisons. Note: I am not trying to say that being religious landed them there, but that it did not stop them.
Of course, but that doesn't mean that all people obey those pressures.
And society punishes them for it.
Edit: added last sentence.
See... the thing is... people evolved to want to have more or less the moral standards that religions later claimed as their own. The causation is reversed.
[–]aec10 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
You mean there is some place in our genetic code where there is an ABSOLUTE set of morals hard coded in us? If so, I would like to see some which genes are responsible for that.
The only people that believe in absolutes are terrorists.
But it's an objective and measurable moral code that our brain chemistry reinforces.
I am pretty sure that a lot of atheists are absolutely sure that there is no god, so they do believe in absolutes. I am absolutely sure there is no FSM so I also believe in absolutes. Most people do.
A subjective moral code is worthless. The Talibans have a moral code, the Chinese have a different one, Christians have yet another, and so on. Furthermore, the moral code used in today's USA is pretty different than it was 100 years ago.
So without a central authority, you can only have subjective moral codes.
I just got finished saying it was an objective moral code, but not an absolute one. You really can literally measure oxytocin concentrations in response to various social stimuli and see exactly what moral code humans evolved to have.
Now, is that "absolute"? No, of course, not. Indoctrination can alter it, as can mental illness. Also, it's somewhat arbitrary, and certainly in flux, as is anything evolved, but any moral code is arbitrary from some perspective.
The presence of many (purely subjective) ideologies that violate that moral code (including, BTW, Christianity) doesn't change that.
The big problem with absolute moral codes is that they're always wrong. Humans aren't computers.
EDIT: Also, there are very few atheists (here or that I've met) that are "absolutely sure" there's no god of any kind. A lot of them are absolutely sure the Christian god is contradictory, and therefore non-existent, but that's not the same thing.
But how can it be objective but not absolute?
For example, would it be OK for someone who is 40 to have sex with a 13 years old? In some countries it is legal (although perhaps not moral). However, in the past it was not immoral especially if you married the girl.
Is it moral to give children alcoholic beverages? In the US it is considered immoral, but in Europe it is totally OK.
Is it moral for a girl to fuck around? In some societies it is immoral, in some others it is quite OK.
Those are just a few examples, of course. So which one is the objectively right one? And on what do you base your decision? On the oxytocin concentration?
Also, there are very few atheists (here or that I've met) that are "absolutely sure" there's no god of any kind. A lot of them are absolutely sure the Christian god is contradictory, and therefore non-existent, but that's not the same thing.
Well, you seem like a decent guy (at least from our brief debate here). But I am sure you've seen a lot of posts in /r/atheism about people calling God fiction (and they don't specify which god they are talking about). Or saying how theists are idiots and atheists are rational, and so on. I am pretty sure that if there was a poll here most atheists would not identify themselves as agnostic.
The difference between objective and absolute is pretty clear. You can objectively measure the fact that the position and velocity of a particle are not absolute, but rather relative. This is an objective fact, in the sense that it can be measured by many people and they will find the same answer. Indeed, no one will ever (except mistakenly and accidentally) measure anything else.
Absolute and objective don't have anything to do with each other. Indeed, I don't know of anything objective I've seen that is actually absolute. Practically everything is shades of grey. Even Earth's gravity does not have one specific absolute value everywhere on the planet (there are numerous local variations).
It usually takes subjective opinion in order to create something "absolute".
[–]4chans_for_pussies 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
That's three people. When you compare their actions to those of everyone who's killed in the name of religion in human history, it's barely a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things.
Were at an impasse in the discussion, there is over 100million people that have been killed by atheists or dogmas brought about by atheist relavatistic values.
While religion has been the catalyst in many wars the leaders of those events were not displaying thier proclaimed religious values(speaking primarily of Christian religion and values).
Just because someone proclaiming to be a Christian hates or judges it does not make it a Christian thing to do.
[–]BODYBUTCHER -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
i love how you fail to mention the other few thousand years of history
[–]EmptyAndFrantic 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago
It's kind of difficult to sum up all of human history in a short comic.
[–]Valek27 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
The third panel may have happened....
[–]thedude213 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
I could use that torture wheel on my back right about now.
[–]Lots42 -1 points0 points1 point 3 months ago
Emperor Palpatine said that?
[–]SchinTeth -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago
I am all for putting stuff on here several times so that people can see it but this seems to be on here like every week or so
[–]Axxerand -2 points-1 points0 points 3 months ago*
ROFL LMFAO funny stuff stupid pope
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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