this post was submitted on
1,141 points (58% like it)
3,944 up votes 2,803 down votes

atheism

subscribe1,132,945 readers

1,168 users here now


Help Atheist Organizations!

The Secular Student Alliance, Camp Quest, and Foundation Beyond Belief were all nominated for the Chase Community Giving program, which awards grants based on the votes of the public. Everyone gets 2 votes on Facebook, plus an additional one if they share a CCG page. The links for them are:

SSA | CQ | FBB

Voting runs from September 6-19


Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. Please read our FAQ.

New posts: New Rising
Self posts: New Relevant
Non-image posts: New Relevant

Recommended reading and viewing

Thank you notes


Related Subreddits <--the big list

GodlessWomen YoungAtheists AtheistParents
BlackAtheism AtheistGems DebateAnAtheist
skeptic agnostic freethought
antitheism humanism Hitchens
a6theism10 tfbd AdviceAtheists

Events
10/5-6 NAPCON2012 - Boston
08/11 Regional Conference - St. Paul MN
Giving
DWB/MSF fundraiser
Kiva lending team
FBB's Appeal to Freethinkers to Fight Cancer
Camp Quest
Ex* Groups
ex-Muslim ex-Catholic ex-Mormon
ex-JW ex-Jew ex-SistersinZion
ex-Bahai ex-Christian ex-Adventist
Assistance
Coming Out
Atheist Havens
Start an Atheist Club at Your School

Chat: #reddit-atheism on irc.freenode.net

Watch: #/r/atheism on reddit.tv

Read The FAQ


Submit Rage Comic

Submit Facebook Chat

Submit Meme

Submit Something Else

a community for

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

all 162 comments

[–]Rephaite 294 points295 points ago

Well, you can't marry him. He probably took a vow of celibacy.

[–]BABYEATER1012 37 points38 points ago

Wow, that is fucked up lol...

[–]helicalhell 20 points21 points ago

Yes, BABYEATER1012. It is.

[–]iRun800 -2 points-1 points ago

I upvoted this three times..

[–]whyAtheistsLikeThis 25 points26 points ago

  • Catholic molestation scandal

[–]Forlarren 5 points6 points ago

That was a good year for comedy, God works in mysterious ways.

[–]DarthDillhole 2 points3 points ago

Well done sir, well done.

[–]isaidicanshout 9 points10 points ago

congratulations, you have won the internet.

[–]khast 69 points70 points ago

I think the bible is very clear on this. Death for both the rapist and the victim.

[–]WORLDS_LARGEST_ANUS 14 points15 points ago

I read that as "priest and the victim"

[–]Dwyguy 9 points10 points ago

Close enough

[–]angryjerk -1 points0 points ago

YES RFOL

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]khast 8 points9 points ago

Meh, Jesus has two dads...and oh, he also is his own father. I'd love to see how that one works out on a family tree....

[–]manixrock 11 points12 points ago

is his own father

meh, Fry was his own grandfather. Beat that.

[–]somehokie 4 points5 points ago*

/r/Futurama is relevant to everything! ಠ_ಠ

[–]robinjam 1 point2 points ago

Futrama

[–]somehokie 1 point2 points ago

Thank you, robinjam! That's what I get for being on Reddit during a lab.

[–]Dmoneater 1 point2 points ago

A picture of such a tree could yield karma...

[–]1moreastronaut 0 points1 point ago

[–]FuckItWellPostItLive 6 points7 points ago

I think you get an unhandled exception.

[–]sizzzzzzle 2 points3 points ago

catch(ConflictException) { throw; }

[–]whyindeed 4 points5 points ago

(╯°_°)╯︵ ;

[–]rilo2009 16 points17 points ago

Then you are proper fucked

[–]Stranded_In_A_Desert 9 points10 points ago

Upvote for Snatch reference.

[–]slb1107 1 point2 points ago

Upvote for catching the Snatch reference.

[–]bdwilson1000[S] 19 points20 points ago

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. - God, Deuteronomy 22:28

[–]minno 33 points34 points ago

He must marry the young woman

Seems pretty specific to me.

[–]bdwilson1000[S] 2 points3 points ago

What if the rapist is a lesbian with a dildo?

[–]mirrax 21 points22 points ago

Still not a man.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

What man? Which man? Who's the man? When's a man? What makes a man a man? Am i a man? Yes. Technically i am.

[–]PaneInTheGlass 0 points1 point ago

No love for Flight of the Conchords, people? What is wrong with the world today?

[–]Excentinel 8 points9 points ago

That determination largely depends on how butch the lesbian is.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]mirrax 6 points7 points ago

No, I am saying that it says when a man rapes a woman. Being a lesbian with a dildo doesn't make the lesbian a man.

[–]Shazambom -1 points0 points ago

So that means lesbian rape is okay?

[–]RickSHAW_Tom 2 points3 points ago

Only if you ask God, but he and I don't see eye to eye on a lot, especially that first book.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

The sequel's not much better, I heard.

[–]RickSHAW_Tom 2 points3 points ago

Did you know it's a trilogy? And the book of Mormon is return of the Jedi?

[–]KamehamehaWave 0 points1 point ago

Pretty sure that's not ok under the whole "do unto others as you would have them do to you" thing. There's plenty of stupid things in the Bible, there's no need for you to make new ones up.

[–]mirrax 0 points1 point ago

... You obviously haven't been in /r/atheism long, I swear that every post is about who being gay isn't ok in the bible. I have a feeling that raping people won't make being a lesbian ok according to levitical standards.

[–]Shazambom 0 points1 point ago

You obviously can't take a joke so I'm just going to ignore you now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

I think that probably never happens. And if it did God would make allowances. Plus this is old testament you fucking hillbilly.

[–]Zepp777 7 points8 points ago

Other versions say specifically female virgins

[–]Philile 5 points6 points ago

Makes sense. Can't steal married women from other men and nonvirgins of the unmarried variety were to be stoned. Gender equality wasn't that important to the Old (and New!) Testament.

[–]dumspiro_spero 6 points7 points ago

If anyone cares to read the correct Biblical interpretation of this passage, I'll leave this here.

http://www.mandm.org.nz/2009/07/sunday-study-does-the-bible-teach-that-a-rape-victim-has-to-marry-her-rapist.html

It is possible to articulate your misbelief of the Bible without misrepresenting what is written there through incorrect exegesis of the text.

[–]thrwwyy 7 points8 points ago

Thank you for the link--it was interesting to read an analysis of the verses--but you come across as extremely pretentious. It is nowhere near unequivocally "the correct interpretation;" it's simply one way to read the text.

And I assume you mean the NIV when you refer to "incorrect exegesis," right? Yet you have no better way of knowing than that team of translators what the authors really meant to say.

Either way though, the main problem with the verse is the treatment of women as a commodity. It simply doesn't coincide with this god's repute of perfect morality.

[–]sparkyjunk 0 points1 point ago

well spoken

[–]rooktakesqueen 8 points9 points ago*

The third reason is that, to interpret the law in Deut 21:28-29 as a rape is to make God the commander of a morally heinous command. Martin is correct, given what we know about the psychological harm that rape inflicts upon its victims to command that a woman marry her rapist is cruel and hence clashes with strong moral intuitions. Elsewhere I have defended the claim that if one interpretation of divine commands coheres better with our moral intuitions than another then that fact constitutes evidence for the former interpretation. All else being equal, an interpretation that coheres with our pre-theoretical moral intuitions is always preferable. This hermeneutical principle applies here.

Now that's some stunning philosophical wrangling right there. "This passage makes me feel squicky because it seems like God is doing something immoral. I will therefore do anything I can to interpret it in a way that makes me feel not squicky. I will explicitly admit to doing this and even pretend that it's intellectually defensible by giving it a fancy name."

Does this hermeneutical principle also apply to the countless genocides the God of the Bible committed or commanded (see: the Flood, the slaughter of the Midianites, etc)? The torture visited upon good people for no reason (see: Job)? The non-proportional punishments given for various crimes (see: Adam and Eve, Lot's wife, the kids mocking Elisha, the vast number of crimes whose Biblical punishment is stoning, etc)?

But hey, we're talking about what is probably meant in the Hebrew original text, I guess. One argument here says that Deut 22:28-29 is merely restating a law given first in Exodus 22:15, which states "But if the owner is with the animal, the borrower will not have to pay. If the animal was hired, the money paid for the hire covers the loss." ... probably meant 22:16, which states "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife." What evidence is there for this assertion?

The rule in Exodus says: a man who seduces a virgin must pay her father the bride-price, and if her father refuses to give her up, he must still pay it. The rule in Leviticus says: a man who "takes hold of and lays with" a virgin must pay her father the bride-price and marry her, and may never divorce her. What, aside from interpretation for the explicit purpose of denying that God endorses rape, makes you think these two laws are at all related?

Edit: Oh, and since we're also bringing in the context of surrounding passages: Deut 22:23-24 refers to what happens when a man sleeps with a virgin who is betrothed and in town; Deut 22:25-27 refers to what happens when a man sleeps with a virgin who is betrothed and in the countryside; Deut 22:28-29 refers to what happens when a man sleeps with a virgin who is not betrothed. These are three linked passages whose variables are whether the virgin is betrothed and where the act takes place. Whether the act is forcible or not doesn't seem to factor into it, or there would be six or seven entries here, not three.

[–]americaishere 4 points5 points ago

I'm not a big fan of when people use the "oh, you just don't know what the original text means". You would think the all powerful and all knowing creator of the universe could get the message across in a way that didn't require knowing a specific language. Nonetheless, I've never heard this justification for this verse, so thanks for linking to it.

The verse still forces the woman to marry someone who "seduces" her (and apparently the right to divorce had to be given up in this case), and throughout all the cited verses, the woman is still portrayed as property. In fact (correct me if I'm wrong) the whole purpose of the verse is still about protecting the father's property.

[–]dumspiro_spero 4 points5 points ago

I agree with you about not using "correct interpretation" as a cop-out for actually facing the implications of the text. But do you think it's fair to misinterpret the text just because God should be able to get his point across without us having to pay attention to the social climate and language used at the time?

Also I'm not a Bible expert, but I believe Deuteronomy 22 addresses promiscuity and adultery under a broader category of "marriage violations."

[–]americaishere 6 points7 points ago

Intentionally misinterpreting text for any reason is unnecessary.

However, I honestly feel like the christian god who is omnipotent, benevolent, all-knowing, etc, should not have been hindered by current social climate in the message that he intended to get across.

I understand the reasoning behind this particular verse. Whether it's rape or seduction, the woman is now no longer a virgin, and thus her value is greatly diminished. The general apologetic response that the woman would now never be able to be married and wouldn't be able to provide for herself makes sense from the perspective of that social climate. I understand why the men who wrote that verse may in fact have believed that this was a moral rule.

But, I cannot accept that a god who is supposed to be all knowing, never changing, and all good would decide that this would be a moral rule. How could a verse that essentially treats woman as property come from this type of god. And why does this God have to be so staunch about this situation. If two people slip up and have sex just once, they have to be married forever and are never allowed to divorce?

Couldn't a super intelligent being come up with a way of setting up a system of rules that his followers could accept regardless of the social climate?

It just doesn't add up. And the reason it doesn't add up is because this scripture was not dictated by God or "breathed by God" (or whatever that verse I'm referring to says, you know what I'm talking about). This verse was written by the men in power at the time in order to protect what they considered property.

[–]dumspiro_spero 1 point2 points ago

Also, three verses earlier it states, "But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death."

[–]bdwilson1000[S] 1 point2 points ago

Thats because nobody could hear her even if she did scream. Her refusal to scream (and be heard) inside a city is taken as a sign of consent..proving adultery.

In any case, why the fuck would god order people killed for having an affair? Sure it's bad, but is it that extreme?

[–]dhasenan 0 points1 point ago

If a woman under those laws was in a city and being attacked and about to be raped, should she scream or not?

If she's already married, she should stay quiet. With luck, it won't be noticed. If she screams, the guy has a strong incentive to kill her so he doesn't get identified.

If she isn't married and screams, she is similarly likely to be killed. But if she doesn't scream and she's discovered, she's dead. If she doesn't scream and isn't discovered, she'll eventually get married, and her husband will find out she isn't a virgin, and she'll be killed.

What would you do?

[–]philge 1 point2 points ago

Thank you for posting the verse! I was going to come and post it myself to show you that the verse is quite specific about the circumstances. This injunction could not possibly be applied to two persons of the same sex. It states specifically, a "man" and a "virgin"/"young woman."

It's still quite a wretched and sinister verse, but just a very quick glance at the scripture shows that your OP does not really make any sense. . .

[–]Ryuuzoji 0 points1 point ago

This might be a mistranslation from the original greek. A bit later in the same book (or is it before) it claims death to the rapist if I remember correctly. Two different greek words were apparantly used, the one in 22:28 being able to mean both rape and sex in general.

[–]GamblingDementor 0 points1 point ago

Verse needed.

[–]Ryuuzoji 0 points1 point ago

Sorry, my bad. My memory have been wrong, and the post I remember seems to have been faulty as well. It is in case of a bethroded woman in the country (outside of a city) being raped that the man shall be put to death. My bad

[–]sparkyjunk 0 points1 point ago

It's funny because you're trying to make sense of the bible! (I upvoted any way for the info)

[–]dhasenan 0 points1 point ago

What's really odd is that they decided to write that one verse in Greek while the rest was in Hebrew.

[–]namer98 0 points1 point ago

Page 39b

THE VIOLATOR PAYS FORTHWITH BUT THE SEDUCER [PAYS ONLY] IF HE DISMISSES HER etc. WHEN HE DISMISSES HER! Is she then his wife? Abaye replied: Read, ‘If he does not marry her, So it was also taught: Although it was laid down that the seducer pays [the statutory fine] only if he does not marry her, he must pay compensation for indignity and blemish forthwith. And [in the case of] the violator as well as [of] the seducer, she herself or her father may oppose.

You mean, the Jews don't actually force girls to marry if they don't want to? You mean, you actually don't understand the religion? Woah.

[–]3885Khz 0 points1 point ago

Sounds just to me, how could anyone have a problem with this!

[–]AndTheSonsofDisaster -1 points0 points ago

The Old Testament is no longer relevant to Christianity today in any capacity other than an historical account.

[–]thejynxed 1 point2 points ago

Matthew 5:17-20

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

tl;dr

Before making spurious claims about the OT not being relevant to Christianity today, try reading comprehension. That's Jesus talking there, saying the VERY LAWS WRITTEN IN THE OT ARE SUPPOSED TO STILL BE FOLLOWED.

/endrant

[–]thejynxed 2 points3 points ago

The best translation of these verses, might be easier for some people to comprehend:

17 dont break law. im in ur urfs fulfillin ur propheciez

18 iz all true. srsly. law iz not deleted

19 if u break law, no can has cheezburger. if u teach law, can has lotz cookiez

20 u b good kittehz or Ceiling Cat is liek "bad kittehz! u can not has mi pad!"

[–]AndTheSonsofDisaster 1 point2 points ago

Um... I hate to be the bearer of bad news since you probably feel smug with yourself and all. But when Jesus was talking about "all being accomplished" and "fulfilling", etc. He did that when He died on the cross (Col. 2:14).

If we were still under the Old Law today, Gentiles wouldn't be allowed in the church, we'd sacrifice animals for our sins, and a host of other things.

SO, like I said, the Old Testament does not apply to Christianity today.

[–]thejynxed 0 points1 point ago*

Since I still see the heavens and the earth right around me, I'll go on with how he said that the OT law isn't gone until they are gone.

I'm not a Christian, but I've read the original Greek translations that are out there and have used Strong's Concordance, etc for my own studies. I see so many different opinions on what these verses are supposed to mean that the entire text itself becomes almost meaningless.

Also, it's kind of easy to look at it and see that it says, "Don't break the law, as the law is still the law, but here is what I am saying these laws mean and this is how you should apply them."

P.S. - I am more skeptical of anything that was supposedly written by the author of Hebrews (nobody knows who this was), or Paul. Paul didn't start his teachings or writings until most of the original Apostles were already long dead. I almost question why stuff by Thomas was left out of the Bible (and Thomas was a direct witness apparently to the events in question, including the Resurrection), but we rely on, and put into a prominent place, the second and third-hand accounts and teachings of a supposedly reformed persecutor of Christians.

P.S.S. - I think also, that too many people overlook the target audience of the people Jesus actually spoke to - Jews and the "dregs" of society; prostitutes, slaves, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

The OT is still relevant but the Mosiac law has been replaced by the law of the spirit, and it was told by Moses that we would have to listen to the new prophet, Jesus Christ

Deuteronomy 18:15

Jehovah your God shall raise up to you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, one like me; you shall listen to him,

Acts 3:22

For Moses indeed said to the fathers, "The Lord your God will raise up to you a Prophet from among your brothers, One like me; you shall hear Him according to all things," whatever He may speak to you.

[–]thejynxed 0 points1 point ago

Exactly, and in the Matthew verses, Jesus says to follow the OT laws to the letter.

No matter what way you try to twist it, Jesus said the OT law is to be followed until all things are done.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

What verse does Jesus say to follow the OT laws to the letter?

[–]JettClark 0 points1 point ago

None. None whatsoever. These people have clearly not read the entire passage, and have instead read the one part that is hardest to understand and gone "Yup, I get it totally and 100%." Very silly. Jesus even goes on to talk about how all foods are clean, and Paul speaks many times of how we've been freed from the law by Christ's sacrifice.

[–]sparkyjunk 0 points1 point ago

You mean - It's not relevant except when you find a verse that coincides with your own morals? (e.g. gay-bashing, 10 commandments on the public property, putting god on money, owning slaves, etc, etc, etc.) [OK, perhaps not you, per se, but this is the basic christian mentality.]

[–]AndTheSonsofDisaster 0 points1 point ago

I think we all know that the vast majority of "Christians" are very uninformed when it comes to the Bible. Too many are willing to go by what their "Pastor" says or what makes them "feel good" as opposed to what the Bible actually says.

Most the "Christian" world don't believe baptism is essential for salvation even though the scripture evidence for such is overwhelming. That's just an example among many of how many in the Christian world don't really know what the Bible says.

Also, I don't need to go to the Old Testament to show that homosexuality is wrong. There are verses in the new as well.

[–]Crestote 6 points7 points ago

if you are a boy getting raped by a catholic priest you might get castrated . thats allways funn.

[–]kingssman 2 points3 points ago

according to leviticus the man lays with a man like a woman. he must be put to death. same goes to men having sex with animals, both man and animal must be put to death.

Islam says same thing. two men fucking, they shall be put to death. if they repent, leave them alone. (see, as long as you are sorry for being gay)

in rape, Islam requires a trial with witnesses before the rapist is punished.

[–]bob-the-dragon 2 points3 points ago

You require three muslim men. Other people of other genders and religions wouldn't cut it

[–]craisinscherry 2 points3 points ago

They have death by stoning laws to avoid paradoxes like these.

[–]Hiscore 2 points3 points ago

Isn't the bible gender specific on this issue? I am not so sure, so please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it only says that if a man rapes an unmarried woman, he must marry her and pay her father, but not the other way around and not for the same sex.

[–]chasetheworld 1 point2 points ago

What if the rapist is a family member? For example, your father?

[–]Unhappycamper96 2 points3 points ago

And if you resist are you stoned for disobedience?

[–]AceDecade 1 point2 points ago

Stoned to death, easy.

[–]Trehnt 1 point2 points ago

Can someone tell me where in the bible this is at? (link)

[–]Highlighter_Freedom 1 point2 points ago

Stoned to death.

[–]squigs 1 point2 points ago

Then it doesn't apply. The law is about a man raping a woman.

HTH.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

Didn't God rape Mary?

And if God is Jesus, Jesus is Mary's son' therefore Jesus raped Mary, thus Jesus has to marry his mother Mary...

But how can he rape his mum if he's not born yet... Dun dun duuuun

[–]Jeezafobic 2 points3 points ago

God is the original MotherFucker.

[–]MungoB 1 point2 points ago

I think I seen a very similar Philosoraptor months ago. It was brought up that the specific verse was specific to a man laying with a woman.

Googled it, Deuteronomy 22:28

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

[–]burpinator 1 point2 points ago

Marry and stone each other to death, I guess.

[–]JLW09 1 point2 points ago

simultaneously !!

[–]sweetambrosia 1 point2 points ago

So rape is considered "dibs" in the eyes of the lord?

[–]contemplor 2 points3 points ago

Then god hates you

[–]Implacable_Porifera 6 points7 points ago

On the plus side, he actually hates the rapist too (for once).

[–]maxifer 2 points3 points ago

"Good question, me" --bdwilson1000

FTFY

[–]Shazambom 1 point2 points ago

Stone both of you to death... With flaming rocks... You know the gotta spice it up every now and again back then. I'm sure they got bord as hell.

[–]gourmet_white 0 points1 point ago

it's a paradox! i think...

[–]Toaka 1 point2 points ago

Ah, the ol' Pitch-and-Catch-22

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

This question keeps me up at night :(

[–]TheBlackHive 0 points1 point ago

Thermonuclear implosion.

[–]tarcM 0 points1 point ago

Then you're fucked - in every sense of the Word.

[–]brad_the_rad 0 points1 point ago

if both men, both are executed. if both women... i'm not even sure if the bible counts that as sex.

[–]geek_loser 0 points1 point ago

And everybody died. The End.

[–]chamora 0 points1 point ago

Or someone who is already married

[–]foggart 0 points1 point ago

Hence Mormonism.

[–]SaraScara 0 points1 point ago

the less Mainstream kind at least, the Church of Latter Day Saints doesn't practice Polygamy.

[–]simongrey 0 points1 point ago

Well until February this couldn't happen in the US. (Source)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Free tickets to hell all around!

[–]mustard_party 0 points1 point ago

Rape, in good old California at least, can only be between a male and a female.

[–]slimjames 0 points1 point ago

Good point.

Support the the law to define rape as done by one man to one woman.

[–]cyborgmermaid 0 points1 point ago

Should be "same sex". The Bible doesn't give two shits or a fuck about gender.

[–]804R 0 points1 point ago

This was asked before and the answer remains the same: both participants are to be executed.

Religion of peace my ass.

[–]Boojamon 0 points1 point ago

Ignore it and hope it goes away.

[–]GibsonJunkie 0 points1 point ago

Well in that case there's obviously no marriage. Double standard, and all that.

[–]namer98 0 points1 point ago

Page 39b

THE VIOLATOR PAYS FORTHWITH BUT THE SEDUCER [PAYS ONLY] IF HE DISMISSES HER etc. WHEN HE DISMISSES HER! Is she then his wife? Abaye replied: Read, ‘If he does not marry her, So it was also taught: Although it was laid down that the seducer pays [the statutory fine] only if he does not marry her, he must pay compensation for indignity and blemish forthwith. And [in the case of] the violator as well as [of] the seducer, she herself or her father may oppose.

You mean, the Jews don't actually force girls to marry if they don't want to? You mean, you actually don't understand the religion? Woah.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]JLW09 0 points1 point ago

Sodomy my son, thats sodmy

[–]dezmiller777 0 points1 point ago

This is nowhere in the bible. Instead of saying "the bible says.." you should include what book of the bible it is from. I hate how in order to maintain your atheistic liberation you'll make these ridiculous and untrue statements, almost like you're troll button is stuck in the "on" position. If someone is raped then the person who did the crime will do the time. The victim will have to get on with their life with the love and support of friends and family. No marriage required or implied.

[–]carlosboozer 0 points1 point ago

yo you guys know the difference between old and new testament right

[–]JLW09 0 points1 point ago

Oh yeah because half of the bible is just ignored isnt it ?

That really makes sense. This is the book of God but only pay attention to some of it !

[–]ASofterMan 0 points1 point ago

Well I guess you're 'fucked'.

[–]Johnnymi25 0 points1 point ago

divide by 0

[–]whitewateractual 0 points1 point ago

The bible says that a woman must marry the male rapist. This problem actually doesn't arise, just saying.

[–]kimanidb 0 points1 point ago

You can't marry him or I guess her they would be stoned and you can't marry someone who is already dead.

[–]ThatGodlessDude 0 points1 point ago

I know this is supposed to be a rhetorical question but I'm pretty sure you both get stoned.

[–]Arxl 0 points1 point ago

You find the rapist and slowly torture them to death.

[–]EscapeToTheVoid 0 points1 point ago

What happens if you get gang-raped?

[–]MonThrasher314 0 points1 point ago

If they slept with you, then you're both sinners. You both die and go to hell, and there's no marriage in hell.

[–]aflouch 0 points1 point ago

Haha, I just realized your name. I really enjoy watching your youtube videos. Keep it up.

[–]Samurai_light 0 points1 point ago

It only applies to male on female rape, and only virgins.

[–]Korberos 0 points1 point ago

Actually the rape law in the bible specifies a woman being found raped by a man.

Just saying. Still fucked up, but this just isn't a good Philosoraptor because it's wrong...

[–]sonastyinc 0 points1 point ago

Then you get stoned to death for being a homosexual (it only applies to men though, the bible never said anything about women sleeping with other women).

[–]Natalibonbon 0 points1 point ago

I also think it's weird how they say that once you become married to the person that raped you that you can't divorce them. But what happens if you get raped more than once?

Lol bible logic

[–]deefrances 0 points1 point ago

even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!

[–]harkonnenjr 0 points1 point ago

What if you get raped by your parents or children. By the way, that happened in the Bible somewhere, like may other atrocities.

[–]giskarinn 0 points1 point ago

Simple... execute them both...

[–]blablabalbal 0 points1 point ago

After reading this I said "Oh no" to myself out loud.

[–]iRun800 0 points1 point ago

I heard it's something like dividing by zero..

[–]gaj7 0 points1 point ago

Unfortunately, the bible specifically mentions it has to be a man that raped a woman (or at least the version I looked at). I still love the question and would love to spring the question on a christian who hasn't read the bible.

[–]markzellig 0 points1 point ago

There is no contradiction. First you get married, then you get stoned because you're an abomination.

[–]THCTuesdays 0 points1 point ago

Looks like our prisons have to be moved to california, ASAP.

[–]ccrazool 0 points1 point ago

Oh snap! My mind just got blown!

[–]Durkki 0 points1 point ago

The Bible answers that, Stone them both to death/Burn them both.

[–]gtonethegreat 0 points1 point ago

well finally a good philosoraptor question not another one that can be answerd with common sense

[–]ADeadKiwi 0 points1 point ago

Only applies to men raping women. Read your bible, this isn't r/christianity.

[–]whyAtheistsLikeThis 0 points1 point ago

  • Hypocrisy in the bible

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points ago

We have been set free from the old law and now serve the Spirit, the teachings of Jesus Christ

Romans 7:6

But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

[–]Philile 4 points5 points ago

Sorry, the writings of an apostle don't pre-empt the direct words of the Abrahamic god.

Mathews 5:17-20

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

[–]JettClark 0 points1 point ago

You're not reading this very well.

The Law and The Prophets were how the books of the Old Testament were referred to back in Christ's time. When Jesus says he has not come to abolish The Law or The Prophets, he's saying he hasn't come to destroy the church. He's come to reform it. Through the fulfillment of prophecy, Christ "fulfilled" all in the Hebrew Bible and ushered us into a new era.

However, that doesn't mean the Hebrew Bible disappears. It serves its purpose as a (sometimes) historical document that can be used as an aid in hoping to learn the actions and teachings of Christ. Just because we have been freed from the law doesn't mean that the law is gone. It just means that it's completed. Because so many people saw Jesus as having come to destroy the church and establish His own religion, He saw it as necessary to re-affirm that this wasn't his intention at all.

Furthermore, he condemned the Pharisees and the teachers of the law for knowing the law, and abiding by the law, but not really caring. When you follow the law to the letter, and not to the spirit, you run into problems, and thus "the law" was boiled down into two simple rules: Love God, and love your neighbour. If you are acting out of love, the law itself will follow naturally. You won't need to know the letter, because you will know what's right internally. If you're only doing "the right thing" because you were told to, then you're not doing the right thing at all. As Paul put it, it's like clanging cymbals. It's just empty noise.

None of this changes the fact that The Law can be pretty shitty sometimes, but in the very least, please don't misinterpret the most fundamental aspect of this teaching.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

Yes it does because it was foretold by Moses that God would raise a new prophet and that we would have to listen to whatever he said:

Deuteronomy 18:15

Jehovah your God shall raise up to you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, one like me; you shall listen to him,

Acts 3:22

For Moses indeed said to the fathers, "The Lord your God will raise up to you a Prophet from among your brothers, One like me; you shall hear Him according to all things," whatever He may speak to you.

[–]thejynxed 0 points1 point ago

And I see your brain just failed you.

Matthew 5:17-20 is the very "prophet" (Jesus), you are talking about.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Yes, and Jesus set us free from the old law and unto the law of the Spirit

[–]thejynxed 0 points1 point ago

So, you are saying that Jesus, sitting there in Matthew saying to follow the OT Laws is a liar?

I see your Christian logic and raise you one Charizard.

[–]JettClark 0 points1 point ago

That's not what Jesus is saying. What Matthew are YOU reading?

[–]thejynxed 0 points1 point ago

Matthew Chapter 5, verses 17-20.

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

[–]JettClark 0 points1 point ago

I already posted this in this thread. Let me re-post this:

You're not reading this very well.

The Law and The Prophets were how the books of the Old Testament were referred to back in Christ's time. When Jesus says he has not come to abolish The Law or The Prophets, he's saying he hasn't come to destroy the church. He's come to reform it. Through the fulfillment of prophecy, Christ "fulfilled" all in the Hebrew Bible and ushered us into a new era.

However, that doesn't mean the Hebrew Bible disappears. It serves its purpose as a (sometimes) historical document that can be used as an aid in hoping to learn the actions and teachings of Christ. Just because we have been freed from the law doesn't mean that the law is gone. It just means that it's completed. Because so many people saw Jesus as having come to destroy the church and establish His own religion, He saw it as necessary to re-affirm that this wasn't his intention at all.

Furthermore, he condemned the Pharisees and the teachers of the law for knowing the law, and abiding by the law, but not really caring. When you follow the law to the letter, and not to the spirit, you run into problems, and thus "the law" was boiled down into two simple rules: Love God, and love your neighbour. If you are acting out of love, the law itself will follow naturally. You won't need to know the letter, because you will know what's right internally. If you're only doing "the right thing" because you were told to, then you're not doing the right thing at all. As Paul put it, it's like clanging cymbals. It's just empty noise.

None of this changes the fact that The Law can be pretty shitty sometimes, but in the very least, please don't misinterpret the most fundamental aspect of this teaching.

[–]Philile 0 points1 point ago

I think you misunderstand my purpose in posting that verse.

My quote comes from the book of Mathews. The book of Mathews was written by an apostle, and the four gospels are believed to be accounts of Jesus' life. We can thus assume that what is written in them to be what Jesus purportedly said, and we can assume that they are the direct and divine quotes of the Christian creator god, or at least they're close to it.

The other quote comes from the Epistles to the Romans, a collection of letters sent by an apostle to proselytize for his church, and his explanations can be assumed to not be the direct words of what Jesus purportedly said, and is not the direct and divine command of the Christian god.

And this whole translation of the "fulfillment" of the line in the verse is just mental acrobatics attempting to conform religion to culture, much like rich Christians do when faced with Jesus' socialist leanings. Plerosai can mean fulfill, advance, affirm, validate, or any of a number of things that, to me, do not suggest that Christians can ignore the Old Testament by way of "Jesus broke the Old Testament so we only follow the New Testament!"

As for the Pharisees, Jesus condemned them for being pedantic hypocrites, and I think the main issue was twisting of scripture to suit their needs rather than mindless obedience to scripture. You can obey the rules of the Old Testament and still act in the spirit of goodness (for the time period), but if you obey the Old Testament and act like jerkasses, then you get condemnation from Jesus. Neither of these excuse not obeying the Old Testament.

[–]Diabro3 -1 points0 points ago

Did you really just tell yourself "Good question"? Really, what the fuck, smug asshole.

[–]TristanIsAwesome -1 points0 points ago

Or what about if you are raped by a family member? Or a priest who is not allowed to marry?

[–]Freakychee -2 points-1 points ago

Has any modern Christian family ever forced their daughter to marry the rapist?

[–]mfdoc12 2 points3 points ago

Not the ones that get their morals from a civilized secular society.

[–]wazzel2u -1 points0 points ago

The point being... Has any modern Christian family ever forced a same sex couple to not marry?