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[–]zadred 12 points13 points ago

I don't have a problem with this. People can believe whatever they want as long as they acknowledge that they are probably wrong.

[–]amolad 8 points9 points ago

That's "could be" wrong.

[–]zadred 2 points3 points ago

There are the few that know they are probably wrong, but believe what they do anyway because the lies are more comforting.

[–]Archangelus 0 points1 point ago

A lot of people would argue it isn't a belief if they know it's most likely wrong. They're just going through the motions and clinging to some emotional ties, or possibly ideas similar to Pascal's Wager... I mean, it's like saying "I believe time travel is possible!" followed by "But it's probably not..." which to me seems like a direct contradiction. Maybe religion is completely different though.

[–]Gemini4t 0 points1 point ago

Time travel IS possible, though. We just need access to a wormhole first.

[–]Archangelus 0 points1 point ago

Aren't those still hypothetical?

[–]Gemini4t 0 points1 point ago

True.

[–]zadred 0 points1 point ago

I think people are full of contradictions and are creatures of emotion and not reason. Murder is wrong, but killing terrorists for your country is right.

[–]HerpityDerps 2 points3 points ago

oooor, as long as they hold their beliefs, and don't try force anyone into believing them. Then they can believe anything!! Cos we'll never know if there is a god, unless it shows us/we die.

[–]Indypunk 12 points13 points ago

I've seen this a lot. People acknowledge that they are probably wrong. My best friends even said these exact words: "You're probably right. I'm atheist somewhere on the inside but I don't want to abandon religion."

[–]jimmyblevins 8 points9 points ago

Exactly. It's like, "I don't want to look past religion because it's cold and dark there."

No, it's not. This is only what you've been told / threatened.

[–]kalimashookdeday 9 points10 points ago

No - it's the way our brains work. People want religion to answer evolutionary rigged curiosity in our brains. And, I will have to say - it is cold and dark for the most part knowing the truth. I hate the fact that I've come to accept there is nothing more after we die - that supernaturally and mysteriously I won't carry on. It's cold and dark by nature, hard cold facts. As the old phrase goes - "sad but true".

[–]Dammit182 1 point2 points ago

What if there is some supernatural or mysterious force? Maybe it just gave us all these religions to watch us make fools of ourselves whilst this "force" or "spirit" sat back and watched? Kind of like Deism: There probably is a god, he just doesn't give a fuck about shit. And let's hope he's not an asshole.

[–]kalimashookdeday 1 point2 points ago*

The thing is it goes beyond speculation as you have asserted. You can say "maybe" to a lot of things. The bible is considered to be the end all "explanations" as spoken by god, recorded by man, and much of it only recorded years later after oral tradition passed it down through the generations.

I'm willing to concede that based on mere possibility a few stories in the bible may have been based on hairs of truth. That maybe the events in these random unknown select few stories could have been based off of exploits, exaggerated and filtered to fit the cultural norms and values at the time, and then passed down to have the hyperbolic version written down to text by a scribe.

What the overarching theme here is, though, you have to use a standard when thinking, analyzing, and contemplating these types of philosophical arguments. The standard is logic and reason. Unfortunately, the bible in nearly it's entirety (as well as many other holy books of other religions) don't pass the test - and thus the credibility sky rockets downward to next to nothing (nothing for many people). You have to analyze the world using these standards of logic and reason. You use it everyday, in every scenarios, yet it's so hard for people to use it with their beliefs. Albeit, these are close to home for many people and nearly indoctrinated and brainwashed into their thinking - but nevertheless, it's a skill[skepticism] that has to be implanted into ones thinking and practiced constantly.

When you make claims such as:

Maybe it just gave us all these religions to watch us make fools of ourselves whilst this "force" or "spirit" sat back and watched

What basis and evidence and logic are you using to assert this? If I were to tell you I could fly - would you take my word for it? You want to see evidence yes? Maybe just a little hover in the room or something, right? But in most cases - you would demand me to prove it based on evidence you could collect. I would like to believe, IMHO, that aliens came to Earth and people mistakenly took them as "gods" before I would believe the verbatim verses of the bible as there is no evidence. My alien theory holds up nearly just as good as many verses and passages that fundamentalists will claims as "truth" and as "the word of god".

Lastly, I will also admit - I love to speculate as well. I want to believe in the M-Theory and I seriously want to believe in shows like Quantum Leap were documentaries of real life events - we just didn't know it yet. The show was so ahead of it's time.

EDIT: Spelling

[–]Dammit182 0 points1 point ago

I totally see where you're getting at and I know it's irrational to throw a bunch of "what-ifs" everywhere, but it does fascinate me to think about what could be out there. To think about our universe being one of many. To think about how and why everything just showed up.

It's highly unlikely the Christian god, or any god for that matter, created the universe. I simply like to ponder on my little existence, and no matter how many ideas I get or hear about it all, not a single person on this Earth will never know life's greatest questions until they die. Even then, if we do die and lose any state of consciousness, we won't know for ourselves, which can be depressing. Some of us want the answers so badly, we dedicate our lives to finding them. It's depressing to think that the laws of the universe could be so cruel to rob mankind of a simple answer to an extraordinary question. But as they say... "sad but true".

[–]kalimashookdeday 1 point2 points ago

I totally see where you're getting at and I know it's irrational to throw a bunch of "what-ifs" everywhere...

Well, I'm not sure if it's "irrational" per se, versus counter productive or moot to the real arguments. I'm guilty of speculating too and although fun, you shouldn't use this type of reasoning as to prove or validate anything. It simply exemplifies "we don't know" - nothing more. Not the existence or non-existence of something.

...but it does fascinate me to think about what could be out there. To think about our universe being one of many. To think about how and why everything just showed up...

I fully agree. I think it's one of the most fascinating things to contemplate and it's also one of the most amazing things to contemplate. We are probably the only known species at this point that is known to contemplate things like our own existence and to do so is amazing.

I tend to like to think there is a lot we do not know. There is probably so much amazing stuff that would be hard for our underused brains to comprehend. I mean, currently, we are at a cusp of WTF in science:

All these are not examples of "so god" but rather where we are at a cusp of saying - wow, our model of the world is incomplete. It's an amazing thing to ponder how we as a population seem to have "everything" figured out but there are so many things that go against what we are typically taught in logic and reason. It makes you think that, maybe there is more out there than we give credit to. But, as I said above, that is purely speculation without evidence.

Anyway, it's an exciting time and my only regret is I probably won't be living on this Earth to find out answers to many questions we are asking in our modern current day.

[–]appling_green 0 points1 point ago

Well that is exactly the opposite point of being "religious". The fact that most self-claimed christians just are continuing family tradition is saddening. And if you go on the assumption that the God of the Bible is real, the tradition christians should be pitied more than the atheists.

[–]itsamericasfault 0 points1 point ago

Maybe they have read r/atheism and don't want to be one of "those people"

Wouldn't blame them.

[–]Indypunk 1 point2 points ago

No, they don't Reddit. Whenever it comes up, I kind of get the impression that they are scared of atheism. They would rather believe there's something after death and that we're meant for something more. Also, they've read that statistically atheism is more hated than any belief system, so they don't want to be labelled as one.

[–]kingseed 14 points15 points ago

The amount of times I've practically seen a religious person say that in a debate (albeit in a slightly different form).

"I see your point... but I know he's real and I'm gonna continue believing in him"

[–]Gemini4t 2 points3 points ago

You can't have an overnight release of these beliefs. The arguments are important so they can think about them, nobody should realistically expect an instant deconversion. Mine took years.

[–]dietotaku 3 points4 points ago

[–]RunningBearMan 5 points6 points ago

Excellent summary of reddit!

[–]TomBlogDotBiz 0 points1 point ago

My thoughts exactly

[–]evolvequick 4 points5 points ago

Pretty sure this also references much of r/atheism if you lay out anything that is remotely anti-r/atheism

[–]Sit-Down_Comedian 39 points40 points ago

Not sure if referencing theists... Or every woman I've ever dated...

[–]MisogynyPoweredLich 9 points10 points ago

死神の骸骨が見てる

[–]betterwithgoatse 34 points35 points ago

That's funny, because the fake opposition of "emotion" and "reason" is a hallmark of a lot of double-standards used historically and in our present culture as subtle tools of misogyny.

In reality, the categories of mental events vernacularly referred to as "emotions" generally don't involve the sort of high-minded idealized abstract reasoning and executive decision-making that people on r/atheism like to espouse themselves as exemplars of despite the currency of their understanding of scientific epistemology having stopped in 1982.

The "emotions" more often than not direct our attention to a different facet of the perceptual world and might illuminate us to what values we hold, rather than the ones we just say we do. Think for a moment of someone "blinded by anger." With the proper orientation they can be capable of all sorts of brilliant inference and probability calculus to kill indiscriminately and effectively, but they may simple not consider all the consequences. What is important to them has a different scope than under everyday circumstances.

After all, "reason" can get you nowhere but from point A to point B. It can't tell you why you want to get there, or as the scottish philosopher David Hume once said "reason is the slave of the passions."

Think about highly emotional episodes in your own life, perhaps arguments with all those women you insist were emotional and thus, though it is a non-sequitor, thus "irrational." Did you really apply in every circumstance and in every facet of your life the rigid, structured reasoning, deference to statistical inference over heuristic assertion, and willingness to say when you can and cannot know something that a graduate student defending their thesis might?

Disbelief in a deity and acknowledgement of historical biology facts does not grant you the keys to the functioning of the whole human cognitive apparatus or grant license to conclude that the most difficult struggle in all of human history--the question of how do we know what we know?--can be reduced to a simple story like this.

Oh and this is a novelty account. So I'm going to say that the following image is "not-safe-for-work" and maybe make another point about the mind.

Did you get a gross-out reaction and close the link?

Now, if you did and if we follow the picture of things presented in the OP, you're being irrational. You're letting your disgust reaction dictate things for you and clinging to that emotional position rather than embracing rationality and realizing that this cubist representation that enables you to see all sides of one asshole from one perspective can do you know harm.

In reality, it further highlights that rationality and emotion are not opposed on some sliding scale. The shape of the stimulus flags your disgust reaction, nothing more.

[–]albequirky 3 points4 points ago

tl;dr - We use reason as a means to satisfy our emotions. Therefore reason and emotions are not mutually exclusive, and it's fruitless to assume they are always in contention.

But you already knew this. It's just easier to feel superior when everything can be branded as 'right' or 'wrong'.

[–]Recall_Coordinator -2 points-1 points ago

1 upvote per paragraph is a bad ratio.

[–]JCrayfish[S] -1 points0 points ago

Hahaha maybe a little of both.

[–]Aloooon 2 points3 points ago

repost! but still extremely relevant.

[–]ekbowler 2 points3 points ago

[–]JCrayfish[S] 1 point2 points ago

That's one of my favorite movies! I love that scene, it applies so much to the actual way trials are run in this country as well.

[–]Captain_Ligature 2 points3 points ago

It's good that you can make fun of yourselves.

[–]ge83 4 points5 points ago

Funny to see this here, all my atheist friends do this.

[–]Veract 1 point2 points ago

Every time a theist says that I'll usually reply with "So?, Bigfoot, Nessie, and the Chupacabra have very valid points against them, but I'm gonna believe in them anyway"

[–]Jerzeem 2 points3 points ago

It's funnier to me to say, "Hm, I see. There's pretty solid evidence that you're not a homosexual, but it's funnier to me to believe that you are."

You know, if they're one of those homophobic-type theists.

[–]Mr_Zarika 1 point2 points ago

Well, I have Facebook screenshots too...

[–]repmack 1 point2 points ago

You should probably drop that pic off at /r/politics.

[–]o08oo 1 point2 points ago

what the fuck! I posted this a few weeks ago and got down voted, but congratulations for your success.

[–]RhinoMan2112 0 points1 point ago

"no facts or evidence" equals faith. Im tired of my idiot brother always going on about how 'faith is a theory' and it's 'based only off of evidence'.... GRRRR it urks me

[–]aesu 0 points1 point ago

If only it happened this way...

[–]TheEpicFails 0 points1 point ago

Because well fuck you

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Could easily apply to any political discussion from either side...that's why I'm a Ron Paul supporter.

[–]c00yt825 0 points1 point ago

This is my mom.

[–]unampho 0 points1 point ago

I have this pastor's son I'm talking to often, and you pretty much just summed him up. poor guy.

[–]TheDudeaBides96 0 points1 point ago

Great.

[–]pablothe 0 points1 point ago

In their defense we also do not have any evidence against the existence of god, just about his mediocrity and/or evil.

[–]LunarMist2 0 points1 point ago

Trying to convince anyone religious that their God does not exists is like trying to convince teenage girls that Justin Bieber's music is horrible. Or apple fanboys that Steve Jobs is not some Genius that invented the computer.

Heck, any fanboy, for that matter.

On a side note, remember that evolution is just a theory. Explaining one piece of evidence does not constitute proof.

[–]braedizzle 0 points1 point ago

This is the way it should be. Recognizing that someone made a good point, but hey, who's anyone to force people what to believe? If they two aren't cramming it down each other's throats, that is how you reach harmony.

[–]chillyhellion 0 points1 point ago

From now on my reply will be "That was a very well laid out, rational point. But I will still hold to my emotional opinion because fuck you."

[–]TheDennisBlack 0 points1 point ago

I am still confused as to how many things, like this, end up on r/atheism.

[–]funsizek80 0 points1 point ago

This is exactly how Easter conversation with my mom went. Face-palm.

[–]eyeherpes 0 points1 point ago

Scumbag boss

[–]Thakartz 0 points1 point ago

My mom in a nutshell

[–]jmack5656 0 points1 point ago

I was reading earlier that we evolved reason to help convince ourselves of our emotional responses. That is, anything that appeals to that gut emotional level is beyond the reach of rational counter arguments.

I notice it more and more everyday.

[–]heff17 0 points1 point ago

happens with my girlfriend, every damn time, talking religion.

[–]Ragnalypse -5 points-4 points ago

Reminds me of people who support Obama.