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all 11 comments

[–]linearcore 5 points6 points ago

To be fair, science enabled both to occur.

[–]Boomsteak 0 points1 point ago

Science is not a double sided sword, humanity is.

[–]Chrome_Sponge 0 points1 point ago

But, if not for religion what reason would 9/11 have had for happening? Without science what reason would we have had for going to the moon. The source of the devices used doesn't matter. What matters is the reasons both were done. One was to better understand the universe, the other because of a superstitious belief in an afterlife.

[–]linearcore 1 point2 points ago

One word to both: politics. Politics could just as easily cause terrorism as anything religious. Anger with an enemy when you are woefully disenfranchised makes terrorism one of the only ways to strike back in a big public way, thereby making you famous and reenfranchising yourself.

And politics is why we went to the moon. Make no mistake. We didn't land on the moon because we wanted to know more about it. We landed on the moon because the Russians were trying to land on the moon and we had to prove we could do it (thereby depriving our enemies of the "high ground.")

[–]Chrome_Sponge 0 points1 point ago

And yet it seems as most countries we have actually gone to war with have had their governments intertwined with their major religion. Don't get me wrong, I get what you are saying completely. But wars almost always involve some sort of religious influence. In the 50s we had "in god we trust" printed on our money to separate ourselves from those "godless communists." Again, not arguing, though i am curious, can you think of any off the top of your head that didn't involve some sort of religious nonsense somewhere?

I'll probably be down voted but I'm honestly just curious.

-excuse the poor formatting, I'm on my phone and it's difficult to gather my thoughts and put them into words on such a small screen

[–]linearcore 0 points1 point ago

Both the Korean and Vietnam wars were relatively free of religion. I use the word relatively, though, because religion is so intertwined with a lot of other things it would be like saying "well, oxygen was sort of the cause of these wars" just because it was there. The influence of religion as a cause of these wars was so negligible, it isn't worth considering as "causing the wars." Yes religion was weaponized against Communism here in the U.S., but we weren't in the war because we wanted to spread Christianity anywhere.

I'm not saying religion wasn't the cause of two planes flying into the World Trade Center. I'm saying that it could have just as easily happened without religion.

[–]Chrome_Sponge 0 points1 point ago

Right, I know you never said that and I realized i sounded knit picky about"religion" and war being intertwined. I didn't mean it in that way. When i think of war i think of the middle east as we have been at war for half of my life so it is engrained in my brain. Vietnam and Korea completely slipped my mind.

[–]linearcore 0 points1 point ago

That's understandable. I was born after those wars too, so the only ones I can really remember are the first gulf war and everything after that. Looking at U.S. history, though, you'll see that most of our wars (being post-Enlightenment) didn't have much to do with religion. This is especially true of all the wars of the 20th century we were part of.

The fact that it is becoming more and more a part of our wars is definitely worrying.

[–]Chrome_Sponge 0 points1 point ago

I believe it mayhave to do with the fear of Islam. They geek they have to strengthen their "faith" because that makes them feel secure. Which alienates all other religions and the unreligious. I want to elaborate further but it's hard to do on my phone. (with Fundie family for good friday, Reddit is my only escape)

[–]linearcore 0 points1 point ago

with Fundie family for good friday, Reddit is my only escape

That's rough. Fight the good fight, or don't. Whatever it takes to get out of there alive.

[–]Chrome_Sponge 0 points1 point ago

As soon as I am completely out of my parents house I will, they've mostly accepted the fact, though I think they think it is a phase. I am as polite as I can muster with them, but they've tried making me read (biased) books (with no outside opinions whatsoever) with easily dismissed "proof." It eats me alive that my family believes in something that is so obviously untrue. My dad always taught me "Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see" and yet, even he was upset when I came out. As much as I want to show them I know trying would be like walking uphill in sand. one step forward 2 steps back. Sorry to ramble, there's a lot I need to get off my chest and reddit will slowly hear my story as it has heard everyone else's.