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An interesting perspective on death. (imgur.com)

submitted ago by REDDIT_HARD_MODE

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[–][deleted] 47 points48 points ago

My favorite quote about death comes from Mark Twain:

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

[–]Time_splitter 8 points9 points ago

The discomfort from the thought of death is from the fact we are given life in the first place. Painfully ironic life. It hurts to know we will lose all we are. In this life at the very least v.v

[–]on_the_redpill 0 points1 point ago

A common criticism of that is one cannot be dead if they did not exist, but I still like the perspective.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

What's the difference between being dead and not existing?

[–]corny414 2 points3 points ago

what hes saying is that for one to be dead one has to have been alive before but yeah being dead and not existing is basically the same thing.

[–]Archangelus -1 points0 points ago

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/not-sure-if-gusta-face.png

[–]nomogoodnames 2 points3 points ago

Being dead is to no longer live, therefore, a dead squirrel is dead, but a rock is not a dead rock, it never lived, so it is nonliving. Although when something doesn't exist at all, it is non existing

[–]Archangelus 2 points3 points ago

The body may be dead, but doesn't oxygen deprivation cause the consciousness to become damaged beyond repair within a few dozen minutes? If your consciousness is brought to a full stop by death followed by that which houses it rotting away don't "you" cease to exist, in the same manner that data stored on a RAM stick disappears when you shut down your computer? The data didn't die, or break, as is the case for inanimate objects. Everything resets to 0 (or whatever), it is simply gone, like a drawing in the beach swept away by the tide.

I think that's what they meant in the picture when they say "we are not" when death comes. Not the body, but your brain's stored version of self.

[–]nomogoodnames 6 points7 points ago

The brain is pretty much the vessel for which we exist, and very much like ram, our consciousness only exists as long as our brain keeps functioning. All our memories, thoughts and otherwise are contained within brain cells. It's really fascinating, and in fact, the entire body is nothing more than a machine for keeping the brain alive. If we didn't need our organs to get energy to the brain, we wouldn't have them. And if we didn't need a form of matter to contain intelligence, it would probably be found in the form of energy as well.

[–]Archangelus 1 point2 points ago

Too bad we don't have backup hard brains. Slower access, but worth the backup rate for the restore. That Arnold Schwarzenegger clone movie did that, didn't it?

[–]ForgettableUsername 0 points1 point ago

If you had never existed, wouldn't that be worse than being dead?

[–]delinquentme 0 points1 point ago

And he was a writer instead of a scientist. this is why he had no say in how long he lived. And thus needs to come up with justification for THE single heaviest source of cognitive dissonance.

[–]davorzdralo 0 points1 point ago

he was a writer ... this is why he had no say in how long he lived

The fuck did I just read?

[–]delinquentme 0 points1 point ago

non-scientist

hes not fighting death and decay ... SO better get comfy with death.

Roll over and accept it == better chances it will take you

[–]Explodian 15 points16 points ago

Epicurus also said "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

It's always nice to have a Greek philosopher to quote on our side of metaphysical discussion.

[–]CountRepula 2 points3 points ago

Semi-professional classicist here: It is very unlikely that Epicurus would have been engaging with a strict monotheist God as represented in this quote, hence the dispute surrounding the quote. He addresses the gods (plural) fairly frequently, but never a God as such. Further, evil and good were not really decided upon by the gods themselves, but were thought, in Greek mythology by Epicurus time (~4th-3rd century BCE), to be decided by Tuche (aka 'Fortune, Lady Luck, Etc.').

Epicurus did, however, base his scientific teachings on Democritus and had an atomic theory about all sorts of things, which is pretty cool, when you think about it.

[–]SomeCar 0 points1 point ago

This is the reply I was looking for, and I agree with what you wrote. The term "god" did not come about until recently (recent in human history), and well after Epicurus' time. Also, he was alive well before the beginning of Christianity so it is very unlikely that he would have ever referred to a single god.

[–]Wissam24 0 points1 point ago

But, as we've seen many, many times in translations and works from not so long ago, they tend to translate into "God" rather than naming a specific one.

[–]CountRepula 0 points1 point ago

Yes, Christian translators often impute a sense of their monotheistic religion (famously in the Christus Patiens, which is a re-working and re-arranging of the text of a tragedy by Euripides into a story of Jesus' suffering). I took a look, because this interested me, at all of the primary source texts I have from Epicurus (which is not all of them, but certainly a very goodly portion thereof) and I cannot find this quote or anything resembling it.

[–]Wissam24 1 point2 points ago

Well, Epicurus was very into the notion that the gods were real, but non-interventory. It's very tempting these days to see this as an atheist viewpoint: "Oh, they exist but they might as well not because they don't do anything." Which is of course silly. I can't say this quote seems familiar from Epicurus, but I could see it being a logical extension from one of his proponents.

That said, I'd be surprised if it were because they concept of the "omnipotent" god who prevents evil was not really a thing back then. None of the gods were at all "benevolent" as the Abrahamic god is supposed to be. Hell, they fucked pretty much anyone over who got on their bad side them. This quote has far, far too modern a ring for my liking.

As a side note, damn it pisses me off when I hear people calling him "Epicurius".

[–]CountRepula 0 points1 point ago

Also infuriating: "Epicureanism" = "Hedonism".

[–]weepingmeadow 1 point2 points ago

I'm not sure if Epicurus actually did say that. I haven't find this anywhere except internet images.

[–]Eavangel 2 points3 points ago

I've seen it posted in the lyrics of The Ocean's Anthropocentric album. Along with other atheist quotes such as this one.

"If God is omniscient, he must already know how he is going to intervene to change the course of history using his omnipotence. But that means he can't change his mind about his intervention which means he is not omnipotent" -Richard Dawkins

A different album for them and very anti-theist, but still heavy and metal \m/

[–]The_Gares_Escape_Pla 3 points4 points ago

I'm not anti-theist but The Ocean is an amazing band. I may not agree with their lyrics but they make some damn good metal music. The Origin of God is my personal favorite.

[–]weepingmeadow -1 points0 points ago

I know this band and it's really good, especially the album precambrian! About the quote, I answered here.

[–]bad_ask -4 points-3 points ago

An atheist who studied theology here. Dawkins is a noob. No, really, I love the way he challenges religious idiots and thugs, but in terms of theological reflection, Dawkins is a noob. In this particular argument he is discrediting a child's notion of change with magnificent subtlety. It's a pretty trivial insight.

[–]Freikorp 1 point2 points ago

So you "studied" theology and you don't give any backing whatsoever but to call a well respected person a "noob"? Does this work out for you a lot, professor?

[–]bad_ask 0 points1 point ago

"noob" is admittedly and intentionally flippant. I understand that he's a folk hero in this neck of the woods.

[–]bad_ask -1 points0 points ago*

Edit 1: I meant the chapter on "General Transcendent Knowledge" not "Special Transcendent Knowledge"

Review and understand past theological reflection, and you will find this is pretty old ground, and covered centuries ago as one possible (and markedly undeveloped) manner of understanding divine causation.

Like I said, he begins with a silly notion of change and proceeds to refute it. I'm not doubting his sincerity and he definitely has a niche following. He also is effectively refuting a common position inhabiting the imagination of, say, a run of the mill Southern U.S. Baptist or long-haired friend of Jesus, no doubt there.

I'm not going to be able to convey the relevant insights in this context. Augustine would be a good place to start. For a more contemporary account incorporating probabilistic notions, something like the chapter on special transcendent knowledge in Bernard Lonergan's book "Insight: A Study of Human Understanding" is a good source.

I'm an atheist. No, really.

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

Can you elaborate further please?

[–]bad_ask 0 points1 point ago

See my reply to Freikorp.

[–]YourConsciousness 0 points1 point ago

I found it in 5 seconds with a google search.

[–]weepingmeadow 0 points1 point ago

That's not an original source dude.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

It's disputed, but had been attributed to him at least as early as 1700.

[–]weepingmeadow 0 points1 point ago

So there is no original source. It's just a quote attributed to him 500 years after his death, so I think calling it an "Epicurus quote" is not accurate. Probably the original source of this (Lactantius) is talking about the epicurians and not Epicurus himself.

[–]badoo123 1 point2 points ago

Epicurus should be an atheist's idol (it certainly is mine).

The quote from OP is one of the "cures" of his Tetrapharmakos:

Don't fear god,

Don't worry about death;

What is good is easy to get

What is terrible is easy to endure

[–]GummiRock 9 points10 points ago

Interesting indeed, and almost calming since I'm about to fly 2000 miles to see my dying father tomorrow.

[–]HyperGiant 2 points3 points ago

My condolences.

[–]DrMirabilis 7 points8 points ago

Diablo font, I can never not see it when I see this poster. I downloaded it so I should use it in school reports as a kid.

[–]glhanes 1 point2 points ago

Ctrl-f'd for it: first thing I noticed!

[–]Sotsie -1 points0 points ago

"Oh hey that looks like the..."

"Oh no, 39 comments already, I bet I'm too late"

-click-

-Ctrl F : Diablo-

-Nooooo-

[–]AtheistKharm 4 points5 points ago

Why are Greek names so bad ass and American names so terrible?

[–]Korbie13 2 points3 points ago

"I'm American, honey. Our names don't mean shit."

[–]AtheistKharm 1 point2 points ago

Pulp Fiction ftw.

[–]Wissam24 2 points3 points ago

I absolutely subscribe to Epicurean views on death, except I add one corollary, which is that death should affect us when we have an emotional investment in that person or thing. I don't think this necessary violates his views on death, as I think the psychological impact of that investment being suddenly destroyed is inevitable.

[–]CompSci_Enthusiast 1 point2 points ago

I totally agree. People seem to think that just because atheists don't believe in a deity/afterlife/whatever that life somehow matters less and that they care less about things they love in life. I think life matters more to atheists because they don't believe there is an afterlife where you can see all your loved ones again. Also, the belief that nothing you know will exist for you or anyone you care about after death lends itself to the concept of enjoying life for what is here and now, instead of simply living while you wait to die and be reborn in some sort of paradise.

[–]weepingmeadow 1 point2 points ago

Awesome drawing. And ofcourse awesome quote too. Epicurus ftw.

[–]76goodspeed 1 point2 points ago

I would love to have a poster of this

[–]gaelorian 1 point2 points ago

Holy shit! It's General Kael!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

This has been my background for a year.

[–]LukaCola 1 point2 points ago

Is there a 16:9 one out there somewhere? The image itself is very very nice.

[–]mrselkies 1 point2 points ago

Fuck yeah Diablo font.

[–]Everto24 1 point2 points ago

This has been my wallpaper for a very long time. I love it.

[–]Grelf 0 points1 point ago

Same here. It's on my laptops, desktop and iPad.

[–]Everto24 0 points1 point ago

Hardcore bro. Hardcore.

[–]dmzmd 1 point2 points ago

Yet immortality is preferable.

[–]spehizle 1 point2 points ago

This is my desktop wallpaper, and has been ever since I learned I have Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy. My heart is thickening, it's genetic, it's irreversible, and it may one day kill me. Seeing this every day reaffirms how I feel about the whole situation: not that bad.

:)

[–]ditditdit 1 point2 points ago

I fear the death of others more than I fear my own death.

[–]Ree81 1 point2 points ago

So... if time is eternal, as in, you can't create or destroy matter, only change it. That means eventually the universe we live in will reappear in this exact configuration, and we'll literally reincarnate.

The freaky part is, it's perfectly logical too.

[–]prattja8 0 points1 point ago

This disagrees with the current cosmological theory that involves the universe expanding forever (eventually faster than the speed of light). Lawerence Krauss discusses it at length in his youtube lecture: "A Universe From Nothing".

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

[–]Ree81 1 point2 points ago

Even if this universe suffers a heat death, nothing actually suggests it's the first or last universe that has and will ever exist.

Basically, a universe exactly the same as this one could eventually spawn.

[–]prattja8 0 points1 point ago

Oh ok, that's what you meant. I'm terribly sorry I misunderstood. A multiverse is certainly possible, an infinite # of monkeys on an infinite # of typewriters reproducing the works of shakespeare and all that.

I thought you meant that this universe would eventually crunch back an infinite number of times. Thanks for clearing it up. :D

[–]Ree81 0 points1 point ago

Well it's not like you were wrong. I do tend to favor that theory in front of the heat death one, as the heat death one doesn't really explain why we're here to begin with. At least with a big bang>big crunch one you get infinite time.

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but if primordial black holes are proven to exist then it may suggest that our universe is just one in an endless cycle of universes. There is something calming about knowing that even when I am dead there may be an infinite amount of mes running around.

[–]Ree81 0 points1 point ago

What I don't get though is where energy comes from in that case. If universes "die" by heat death, doesn't that mean the energy stays in that universe? How can universes be created from that if no new energy is added?

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

I'm not really sure. I think that the hypothesis also deals with one universe ending in a "big crunch' and it will then go back to the singularity like state from whence it was originally.

[–]Pink401k 0 points1 point ago

I'm taking an entire class based around this quote and the discussion raised from it.

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

What is the class called?

[–]Pink401k 0 points1 point ago

The Philosophy of Death :)

[–]Raven_Rise 0 points1 point ago

Seen this before but upvoting anyway because it's badass

[–]enrac 0 points1 point ago

Is there a version of this image without the quote?

[–]SorryFortune 0 points1 point ago

Love this quote

[–]Frembo 0 points1 point ago

Damn how many reposts of this are going to make it to the front page again?

[–]Sreyz 0 points1 point ago

I was so happy to see that the resolution was massive.

I made it my background.

[–]Breakfast_Whenever 0 points1 point ago

Someone make this into a wallpaper

[–]Bilibond 0 points1 point ago

I'm not really scared of death as much as I don't want to go through the process of dying.

[–]Dartimien 0 points1 point ago

DIABLO TEEEEEXT!

[–]pattywagon 0 points1 point ago

I thought that was Darth Vader riding a horse...

[–]Valkyrie2 0 points1 point ago

Nice use of exocet font!

[–]pyroxyze 0 points1 point ago

I would love to fully understand the old latin.

[–]fistsofdeath 0 points1 point ago

I wrote my honors thesis on Epicurus' perspective on death. The other quote I love is from Tolstoy and slightly more depressing

"Today or tomorrow sickness and death will come (they had come already) to those I love or to me; nothing will remain but stench and worms. Sooner or later my affairs, whatever they may be, will be forgotten, and I shall not exist. Then why go on making any effort?"

[–]Flaptothejack 0 points1 point ago

This has been my facebook timeline for like 2 months now :) favorite quote

[–]JFOJFO 0 points1 point ago

And now I have a new background image.

[–]Sharkhug 0 points1 point ago

I absolutely love the Diablo Font. And also, Epicurus has another AMAZING quote.

"Is God willing to prevent evil? But not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence commeth evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present.

  • Ludwig Wittgenstein

[–]Darkstrategy 0 points1 point ago

This is my new wallpaper, this is just plain perfection. The font, the art, the quote. Thank you for posting.

[–]SonOfSatan 0 points1 point ago

I find it incredibly irritating to try and explain this to some theists, they simply refuse to understand.

[–]Notosk 0 points1 point ago

You can not spell Epicurus without epic

[–]googolplexbyte 0 points1 point ago

That's a very self-centred stance.

"Death is something to us, since when we are, death looms, and when death has come, they are not." - Me

Death is the one thing that can steal something away from you forever, it doesn't steal you away, it takes away everything else.

[–]Xandralis 0 points1 point ago

Found a brother! You were in that wallpaper thread, werent you?

[–]whiteknight521 0 points1 point ago

As long as death doesn't come for me in the form of a Nazghul I will agree with this quote...

[–]Mount_Bugatti 0 points1 point ago

This is my desktop background - love it!

[–]flanl 0 points1 point ago

Somewhat relevant wallpaper.

[–]qbslug 0 points1 point ago

Death is easy. It's the dying part that usually sucks

[–]narwhalcares 0 points1 point ago

Letter to Menoeceus

"Accustom yourself to believing that death is nothing to us, for good and evil imply the capacity for sensation, and death is the privation of all sentience; therefore a correct understanding that death is nothing to us makes the mortality of life enjoyable, not by adding to life a limitless time, but by taking away the yearning after immortality. For life has no terrors for him who has thoroughly understood that there are no terrors for him in ceasing to live. Foolish, therefore, is the man who says that he fears death, not because it will pain when it comes, but because it pains in the prospect. Whatever causes no annoyance when it is present, causes only a groundless pain in the expectation. Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not. It is nothing, then, either to the living or to the dead, for with the living it is not and the dead exist no longer."

[–]narwhalcares 0 points1 point ago*

The quote in the image is actually the wording used in Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

[–]SpoonyJank -1 points0 points ago

"Quotes are all just oversimplifications"

-SpoonyJank

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points ago

It is an interesting perspective. And if r/atheism adopted it they would probably spend fewer nights with CoD and WoW marathons in mom's basement pausing infrequently only to scarf down Totino's Pizza Rolls and masturbate to tranny porn. But I guess the distance from the death bed to the ground is short, and I'm sure the wasted time won't sting too much as you lay there during your final hours.

[–]Freikorp 2 points3 points ago

the self-loathing redditor, my favorite caricature.

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

Almost 1500 negative karma, bravo.

[–]delinquentme -3 points-2 points ago

fuck this. coping mechanism.

Hes dead, and had no chance of changing that fate. Therefore he is of the belief of " get used to it "

Nothing more than that. Give him the chance to continue living with youthful vigor for thousands of years and he wouldn't have thought twice on taking up that offer.

[–]Colemanimation 1 point2 points ago

I keep searching through the quote, but nowhere do I see him mention that he had a chance to change fate or that he abhorred the idea of immortality.

Perhaps you read the wrong quote?

[–]delinquentme 1 point2 points ago

Its the subtext of rationalizing being OK with the idea of death.

Why is it silly that people are more afraid of public speaking than being killed?

[–]REDDIT_HARD_MODE[S] 0 points1 point ago

I'm not sure you stated this as clearly as you could have. What are you saying exactly?

[–]SovietSolipsism 1 point2 points ago

He's saying, I believe, that we should not admire the coping mechanism called fatalism, however dressed up it might be.

The truth is that death is abominable, and he presumes [and I agree] that Epicurus would have, like most of us, much preferred an option of self-determination.

He coped via acceptance -because he had no choice. He, also, was a slave to the inevitable.

~"You, too, will be made to crawl."

Fortunately, current projections almost unilaterally find it very likely that the first [relative] immortals are already living, and may even be approaching middle age. Hope! I choose to fight; I've never had any intention of bowing to ragnarok.

But then, I may have a chance, whereas Epicurus never did. His point.

/walking on the shoulders of giants

[–]KidzKlub -3 points-2 points ago

I think this is the biggest misconception that atheism community seems to have. I think people should start to see that we are literally all one. William Blake once said "Nothing is lost."

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

In what are we all one? Are we interconnected through our consciousness? Do our common struggles bind us as one? I am perfectly fine with the idea that I am myself and you are yourself.

[–]REDDIT_HARD_MODE[S] -2 points-1 points ago

This is beautiful =) I submitted this about half a year ago on my other account and got shittons of karma. Now I submit it on this count and get shittons of karma. All from an image I stole off someone in r/new.

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