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[–]tuffbot324 28 points29 points ago

I think there is a lot of truth to this. I think to avoid emotional turmoil, believers keep themselves in a box... afraid to research their own beliefs.

[–]Colemanimation 34 points35 points ago

Absolutely. When I was a Christian and I started reading something that was a convincing atheistic argument, I would immediately stop and go read the Bible.

I thought Satan was attacking me, and I prayed for God to give me sensible answers to the questions I had.

Well, I didn't get any.

[–]adrian5b 6 points7 points ago

Thus spoke Philosoraptor.

[–]sireatalot 3 points4 points ago

When I was a Catholic kid, they tought me that the one and pnly paryer that is always heard and immediately satisfied by God is "God, please make my faith stronger". It works, it works real well, but not in the way Christians think it does: it's just self-brainwashing.

[–]RaindropBebop 0 points1 point ago

Is this legit? I guess I have a hard time believing people actually think like this because even when I was religious (Catholic), I didn't believe Satan actually existed.

Then again, I might have just been an odd religious person, because I never believed that god could "talk to me".

[–]Colemanimation 1 point2 points ago

Very legit. I never 'heard the voice of God' or anything, but I interpreted the little tempting thoughts in my head to be Satan putting stumbling blocks in to trip me.

I'm certain I'm just one of a very large group of people that thought or still think this way.

[–]anon-2012 -3 points-2 points ago

I find the precise opposite. When confronted with what seems like a plausible argument for atheism, further investigation invariably presents equally plausible opposing arguments. We believe what we want to (or don't want to) believe, regardless of logic or evidence.

[–]Colemanimation 0 points1 point ago

Sure, there's confirmation bias, but that's the result of people keeping themselves in a box.

Yes, everybody more or less believes what they want to, but you can't just deny the influence of logic and evidence. I came into atheism kicking and screaming because I could no longer believe the faith that I so badly wanted to.

[–]anon-2012 -1 points0 points ago

Confirmation bias applies to theists and atheists alike.

What faith and was there one thing in particular that convinced you in the end or was it a culmination ?

[–]Colemanimation 0 points1 point ago

Of course it applies to everyone and anything, I never said it didn't.

My faith was WELS Lutheran and it was a culmination of many things and a painfully slow progression out of the religion. I couldn't say there was a day that I stopped being religious.

[–]leylanna 2 points3 points ago

This is very true for me. I still havent let go of an afterlife of some sort. I just am too afraid to believe in the nothingness.

[–]Colemanimation 2 points3 points ago

Here's a concept that helped me become more comfortable. Perhaps it's faulty logic (if so correct me) but here goes:

There's a certain probability that caused your conscious mind to exist. Imagine it like a trillion sided die, and if it rolled 4,983,746 your conscious thought would exist.

Granted that's not good odds, but what if either time or space, or both, is infinite?

So while one out of a trillion doesn't seem likely, if you roll the die an infinite amount of times your number WILL come up again. Infinitely.

I find it to be an amusing thought to entertain at least.

[–]leylanna 1 point2 points ago

That is amusing. Im not quite sure if comforting, but I like it.

[–]electricmonk9 1 point2 points ago

Something that helped me was thinking about where I was before I was born. I didn't exist then but it was alright since I wasn't there to be unhappy about it.

[–]juice_crew_all_stars 1 point2 points ago

Look, you've already not existed for billions of years. You're simply going back to doing what you're best at.

[–]leylanna -1 points0 points ago

I know, I know, Like i said Ive just been having a hard time letting go of that part. Knowing conscious and all...

[–]pointis 0 points1 point ago

I hold out hope that science will invent immortality sooner or later.

If jellyfish don't have to die, eventually we'll crack the code.

[–]leylanna 0 points1 point ago

Hopefully before we die...

[–]pointis 1 point2 points ago

I don't know how old you are, but I'm in my 20's and I'm not worried about it. Most of the following is highly speculative, but predicting the future always is. Let's look at ways of extending life that we're already working on:

1) Growing artificial organs from our own cells so we can replace your heart as easily as your car's brake pads.

This guards you against trauma, cancer if you catch it early, heart disease, etc. It even guards against old age itself to some extent, although you'd still have Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and the like to worry about. This is maybe 20 years away from being widespread, at least for major organ transplants.

2) Stem cell research

This promises to deal with most of the remaining "old people" issues such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. It's especially important because living a long time wouldn't be worth it if you can't remember breakfast.

3) Freeze yourself like Walt Disney until we develop effective immortality.. You need money, but it can be done.

4) Go live on Newt Gingrich's moon base when you get old. The lower gravity will allow you to live perhaps decades longer than you otherwise would have, and more comfortably as well.

5) Brain transplant

If we can accomplish a brain transplant, you become basically immortal, although stem cells might be needed to keep the brain healthy. We could hook your brain up to a clone of your body, and you could live another biological life, complete with the memories of your last one. Or, we could give you an android body like Data from Star Trek, and your consciousness could exist forever without needing to poop.

So, all of these technologies and advancements extend human life, and possibly significantly so. Cloning our own organs will be particularly useful, as it fights old age itself, but it doesn't get us all the way

Now, let's the tech (still in its infancy)that could ACTUALLY make you effectively immortal: telomere research.

Basically, if we can figure out how to manipulate telomeres, we can just tell our cells not to grow old and die, and they will comply. This would be the fountain of youth, so to speak.

Edit: Because incomplete

[–]leylanna 0 points1 point ago

I love this. By the way Im a 28 year old female. You can adjust accordingly. Im all about stem cell research so im hoping some serious advancements are able to come my way.

[–]RaindropBebop 0 points1 point ago

There's no pre-requisite, if you will, of comfort in life. Nature is harsh: one day you're alive, and the next you're not.

You can, however, take comfort in the fact that you'll live on in the memories of the people who loved you. To me, that thought is even more comforting than the thought of an eternal afterlife.

This might sound depressing, and I mean it as a compliment, but you must have a pretty good life if one of your major fears is dying (that is, not having your life anymore). So there's maybe another thing you can take comfort in: that you're leading a good, rich, envious life?

[–]leylanna 1 point2 points ago

True. Depression does happen mostly amoung first world nations. Im not offended. Im actually loving the different perspectives on this comment. Its been giving me some food for thought.

[–]neatospiderplant 2 points3 points ago

The thing that helped me is realizing that non-existance before birth doesn't bother me, so why should returning to that same non-existant state?

[–]Iconochasm 6 points7 points ago

Because you now have something to lose, namely everything you value about your life and being alive. The better point (but still not that comforting), imo, is that, once it happens, it's not like you'll really be around to be depressed by it.

[–]The_Holy_Handgrenade 1 point2 points ago

It can be comforting. You no longer have to worry about living. It has a bit of freedom in it. No longer having to take care of yourself, having to eat, or pay bills, or wonder about the well-being of a loved one.. you will no longer have to bear any negative thought.

I think that is a good way at looking at death.

[–]yabaininja 1 point2 points ago

I did, and that's why transition was painful and scary. I'm glad I did it, and now I'm happier and a lot of other good things, so it was worth it.

[–]PsychicKay 0 points1 point ago*

I agree, and it doesn't make sense (to me) to feel bad (but I do) for the "boxed-in" as it were, but the idea of wanting to steadfastly avoid emotional turmoil, or even SLIGHT emotional disturbance, implies that always being happy is paramount and perfect. It wrongfully standardizes and condenses human emotion down to the range of a teaspoon, by saying that feeling unhappy/this/that way is always, always "wrong." If one thing is always "wrong" and avoiding "wrong" has been ingrained into your life, then I truly commend anyone who has changed/really considered their views in the face of what appears to be overwhelming opposition against doing so. Now, as for how we can break the cycle of repetitive/habitual (particularly those with "negative" consequences) thoughts, I'm off to read more r/atheism!

[–]AnticScarab3 7 points8 points ago

Relevant (as an analogy).

Sometimes, men who have same-sex attractions hate gay people more than men who don't. I think there's a similar mechanism at work here.

[–]highlogic 0 points1 point ago

Upvoted! Now, take the next logical step - this observed "homophobic" mechanism most likely applies to anyone who has "extreme" views/beliefs.

Do you hate gays? You are probably in denial of your own homosexuality. Do you hate atheists? You are probably afraid of your own atheistic doubts. Do you hate the idea of a god?...

[–]AnticScarab3 2 points3 points ago

TIL I'm probably God and I just don't want to admit it.

[–]highlogic 0 points1 point ago

TIL subconsciously I think I'm probably God and I just don't want to admit it.

FTFY ;)

[–]AnticScarab3 0 points1 point ago

Not sure if sarcasm...

[–]highlogic 0 points1 point ago

Perhaps a little... :)

[–]sugarm 0 points1 point ago

sigh

but thanks for repeating the belief that atheists hate god

[–]highlogic 0 points1 point ago

Not atheists - "extreme" atheists!

I.e. those that are most vocal (in a hateful manner), those that are very easily angered (to the point of violence), etc.

[–]JEEZUSCHRYSLER 0 points1 point ago

I have literally never once seen the 'hateful atheists' that you are describing. Maybe you made it up so that you would have a group that you could justify talking shit about.

[–]highlogic 0 points1 point ago

Surely you must be blind not to see the visceral crap that is spewed forth from some of the assholes within /r/atheism. They speak out of pure contempt (and pain), in a vain attempt to buttress their weak internal sense of being... Or maybe I am wrong. By your anecdote, since you have never seen "hateful atheists", they don't exist!

My intent was not to talk "shit" about anyone. I was stating, reinforcing, and expounding upon an observation of a truth originally brought to light by AnticScarab3. Should I apologize if that truth leaves a bad taste in your mouth?

With out talking, what progress can be made? The "shit" really starts to fly when we stop talking. We are all too sensitive sometimes...

I'm sorry if I hit one of your "buttons" - I did not intend to offend. This world is made up of a wide spectrum of unique people. Whenever we attempt to stereotype anyone we risk offending them... But, stereotypes help to discuss complex issues that would be impossible otherwise.

I do not know you personally, but if I did I would tell you plainly that any stereotype you may identify with doesn't mean "shit" to me - you are you. I appreciate you because of your uniqueness.

[–]JEEZUSCHRYSLER 0 points1 point ago*

When did I say I didn't agree with him? All I said is that I don't think that you will find any instances of atheists that are 'easily angered to the point of violence'. When I said I hadn't seen the angry atheists I should have explained that I have seen loads of atheists, and some of them were somewhat angry, but never as hateful as you were saying. I'm not really sure what the point of the rest of your rant was. You sort of went on a tangent that had nothing to do with what I said.

[–]sydneygamer 1 point2 points ago

I think this is the first philosoraptor meme that lives up to its name.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

Source? Cannot find this on a few lists of Nietzsche's quotations.

[–]Shiboro 11 points12 points ago

Velocerapticus 10:27.

[–]dtsuzuki 6 points7 points ago

"The Christian faith from the beginning, is sacrifice: the sacrifice of all freedom, all pride, all self-confidence of spirit, it is at the same time subjection, self-derision, and self-mutilation. There is cruelty and religious Phoenicianism in this faith, which is adapted to a tender, many-sided, and very fastidious conscience, it takes for granted that the subjection of the spirit is indescribably PAINFUL, that all the past and all the habits of such a spirit resist the absurdissimum, in the form of which "faith" comes to it." #46 in Beyond Good & Evil

"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life." The Birth of Tragedy, p.23

"Other fears, other securities.-- Christianity had brought into life a quite novel and limitless perilousness, and therewith quite novel securities, pleasures, recreations and evaluations of all things. Our century denies this perilousness, and does so with a good conscience: and yet it continues to drag along with it the old habits of Christian security, Christian enjoyment, recreation, evaluation! It even drags them into its noblest arts and philosophies! How worn out and feeble, how insipid and awkward, how arbitrarily fanatical and, above all, how insecure all this must appear, now that the fearful antithesis to it, the omnipresent fear of the Christian for his eternal salvation, has been lost." #57 in Daybreak

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Thanks. So OP is basically paraphrasing Nietzsche? Kind of difficult to fit all that into a meme. At least it's not an outright lie or misquote. I've decided I'm not going to take any quotation posted here at face value in future until I see a source.

[–]dtsuzuki 1 point2 points ago

i'd say he's interpreting. but it's an interpretation i think gets the spirit of the matter correct. nietzsche absolutely thinks that the christian believer is a victim of their faith in ways that cripple them. so to say that he may ask you to cut them some slack gets that part right. of course, nietzsche also detested pity. so there is a fine line to walk.

it's always a good idea to look for a source, too.

[–]Mac0swaney[S] 0 points1 point ago

It's not a quote, but I wouldn't have had the epiphany if not for reading a line from his KSA that discussed how people who are in societies in nihilistic phases tend to manifest a feeling of dissonance because the values of society no longer reflect that of the individual. (This condition might also explain social phenomenons like the Tea Party.)

[–]SirChuntsaLot 1 point2 points ago

"is man one of god's blunders, or god one of man's"

[–]InaccurateStatistics 0 points1 point ago

What do Christians believe they'll gain in the afterlife anyway? Sure the bible talks of streets of gold but gold and money is worthless since the desire for that is a sin and will probably cease to exist. Speaking of sin, there'll probably be no sex since there's no lust or a need to procreate.

There'd be no more concept of marriage or family (or at least in the way that we're accustom to. I mean wouldn't it be awkward to meet your current wife and the first wife you lost due to cancer in heaven?). Everything that you hold dear and cherished in this life is no longer relevant in the afterlife.

Christians that I know tout about eternal life, but what good is that if eternal life is a life without the things you know and have come to love (ie. hobbies, family, memories, etc)?

[–]Crownowa 0 points1 point ago

They are afraid of not having a god to ask, blame, and thank for things, to take control of their lives out of their hands, to be responsible for their one and only life, to have two ets of laws to follow (the country's and the religious set), etc.

[–]fatfook 0 points1 point ago

Yep, this is closer to the truth than even they realise.

I've lost count of the amount of religious people I've debated who have thrown the towel in and just said that "I don't care, it makes me feel better".

[–]niczar 0 points1 point ago

Consider this: when a religious nut job come and tell you that the earth is 6000 year old, you just laugh at him, even though you believe differently. Yet when you make fun of religion, the retards are offended, often to the point of murdering.

[–]Keldrath 0 points1 point ago

There is a lot of truth to it, it has to do with insecurity, when people are insecure about something, then something else that is different from them scares the hell out of them. It's part of why Islam is so vehemently against free speech, free speech, when it does not reaffirm their own beliefs, plants seeds of doubt. They built their house on quicksand, and doubt will tear it down faster than anything, so they will stop at nothing to censor it. It is why many theists get angry about atheists, their insecurity demands they react in a negative, sometimes violent way, because they can't bear the thought that they might have been wrong, that maybe they were indoctrinated and lied to their entire lives, that their invisible friend was never really there and it was them pulling themselves through all the bad times. They can't stand the thought that their life is built on a lie.

[–]PeterMus 0 points1 point ago

The majority of my christian friends, well more precisely over 80%, Major in a field of science. I live in Massachusetts, so we do see things a bit differently then some other areas.

[–]flyonawall 0 points1 point ago

Yes, there is a lot of truth to this. I see it with my parents. They can't bear to hear about the possibility that god might not exist. It scares the shit out of them, especially since they based their lives on that belief.

[–]Jabullz 0 points1 point ago

I wasn't aware atheism was something to be feared.

[–]achshar 0 points1 point ago

wrong meme? should be conspiracy keanu.

[–]Bilbo_Fraggins 0 points1 point ago

Empirically verified through Terror Management Theory, well explained in this award winning documentary, which is free on Hulu.

[–]FuriousJ 0 points1 point ago

Were we not assuming that, that is exactly what they were afraid of? I thought we were all already on board with this idea.

[–]Negro_Napoleon 0 points1 point ago

There is a lot of anecdotal truth to this from friends of mine.

Some of them refer to the bible because its the only book with that much "fame" or "appeal" to them that they have ever known.

Some of them think that without it, they would just be liable to to really shitty things.

[–]Circlejerk_Leak 0 points1 point ago

What if atheists don't really not believe in God but don't believe in themselves?

[–]chzchbo 0 points1 point ago

Tell 'em, philosoraptor!!

[–]maeelstrom -1 points0 points ago

Full of win.

[–]natholomew -1 points0 points ago

I doubt some people could live without their imaginary father figure.

[–]illegal_people -2 points-1 points ago

I think it's pretty clear religion exists to ease the minds of those which can't accept the probability that religion is a lie, those which fear the very same idea, and those which need something to look to for answers. But it all boils down to this. Soon, maybe they'll get with the program and open their minds. Oh yeah, we're the closed minded ones... Never mind.

[–]oohdatguy 0 points1 point ago

we're still a young species. we'll get with it eventually... or stay in the past, trapped by our own minds. one of the two.

[–]HobKing -3 points-2 points ago

obvi, amirite?