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Help Atheist Organizations! Voting is done: SSA: #47 with 4387 Votes FBB: #56 with 3162 Votes CC: #81 with 2248 Votes Thanks to all who voted! (full results)
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CC: #81 with 2248 Votes
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theism (imgur.com)
submitted 6 months ago by Klokateer
[–]kavorka2 57 points58 points59 points 6 months ago
No matter who, what, or why we are all here (and not just us but the universe, the dinosaurs, etc.) the whole thing is pretty fucking unreal when you think about it.
[–]Burpeeddit 13 points14 points15 points 6 months ago
I agree. Thinking about the universe certainly has a way of making one feel smaller.
[–]tierranieve 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
We're fucking star people damnit!!
[–]onfia 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
As Sagan would say: "Star stuff".
[–]Gunderfro 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago*
As NdGT would say: "[A star's] enriched guts"
[–]CameraCreep 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
As I, currently intoxicated, would say it: "Shit, man."
[–]Scadilla 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Our real parents are now black holes or neutron stars.
[–]Gunderfro 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
I think that it's close to, if not the most beautiful thing to think that the greatest astro -physicist can only comprehend our origins through mathematical and theoretic practices. A tribute, if nothing else, to the power of the human mind.
[–]thatunoguy 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago*
also NdGT would say: "The Universe is in us." -linked-
[–][deleted] 6 months ago
[deleted]
[–]Schmittydude 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
For me, what's almost crazier is thinking that everything is physics. Everything. And by extension, the entire existence of our universe can be encapsulated by a math equation.
[–]bapzannigan 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
I'm slowly starting to think that matter/energy has just always been here. I have no fucking clue why and it doesn't make much sense, but its the only explanation that even makes a little.
[–]Korkymann 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
When you think about, the whole thing is the most real thing there is.
[–]holyice7 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
"Modern science is under no obligation to satisfy the expectations of your five senses." - Neil deGrasse Tyson
[–]Powerfury 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Yep, I don't think the current humans are smart enough to understand this concept, yet. Maybe one day, if our brains continue to evolve, we will be able to grasp some of these concepts such as infinity or other paradoxes.
[–]bapzannigan 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
I think we'll probably all kill ourselves/die out before we get to that point.
[–]FastCarsShootinStars -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
Yeah. I always had one question though. WHY does the universe have to exist? Why did it "decide" to exist one day? WHY is the norm or status quo simply, non-existence?
[–]HerticHero -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
That, my friend, is why we're going through all this trouble to find out. You really couldn't have worded that question in a more inspirational way.
[–]rasputine -9 points-8 points-7 points 6 months ago
Just because we have tiny brains does not mean it's unreal.
[–]mattwaver 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
He doesn't mean unreal as in "not real," he means it like "mind blowing" or something to the affect of "it's crazy to think of all of it because we know so much yet so little."
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Yes, because we have tiny brains. If we had better brains that could comprehend the vastness and enable us to develop technology to traverse it then it would not be as "mind blowing".
[–]Osmium44 -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
I wouldn't say we have tiny brains. We have quite large and sophisticated brains, they are just honed for tasks other than traversing the cosmos, and are prone to error.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
We have excellent brains for comprehending a small scale planet.
We have terrible brains for comprehending a mega-big-huge large scale universe.
[–]mattwaver 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Not sure if trolling because of username, or your actual ideas.
But yes, I would agree with you. Not that having tiny brains is anywhere in our control.
[–]GHDUDE17 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago
That's... the point of calling something mind-blowing: "Blows a human's mind". Saying that the origin of the universe is only mind-blowing because we have small brains is like saying that shit only tastes bad because humans haven't evolved to enjoy eating it. You're just arguing to argue.
[–]vinylapps 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Relevant Daniel Dennet TED talk on which came first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzN-uIVkfjg
[–]everflow 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago*
I agree. And I keep on hearing from people that they choose to believe in God because it comforts them to know reason and purpose of our existence. But then I think, actually it does not. Honestly, what is it to us whether the universe comes into existence naturally or God made the universe? Suppose he did, then he still created the whole freaking universe, super novas, black holes, arguably aliens somewhere in outer space, dinosaurs etc. It is still pretty fucking unreal when you think about it. Believing that God did it gives you not any more insight as to why and how and what the purpose of everything is. What is God's will regarding Mars? Who can tell?
Oh, I forgot, you guys probably met people who deny the existence of dinosaurs. Where I come from, mostly everybody recognises scientific advances, they just claim that God was behind it all. But if you believe God caused the Big Bang, that brings you not an inch nearer to any actual answers. Makes the whole thing not any less pretty fucking unreal when you think about it.
[–]RZA1M 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Our understanding of life is so primitive. I can't wait for the day that people drop religion and actually strive to learn the truth of our origin. Maybe we were created, probability and logic tells us it's most likely not a omnipotent god, or maybe we weren't created at all and the need for a 'creator' is as much created as our need for an origin. Either way it's completely fucking bonkers to think that you can look up and there's no ceiling.
[–]aec10 -11 points-10 points-9 points 6 months ago
You mean that there are no not religious people that look into that matter? You know, like Dawkins?
[–]randomly-generated 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
I think he's saying we'd be much further long if all of human society dropped religion and focused on advancing human knowledge.
[–]aec10 -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 months ago
So instead of going to church or reading the bible in their free time, the scientists should do extra hours in the lab?
[–]randomly-generated 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
The entire populace should at least become supportive of rational thought. That in itself would go along way.
[–]aec10 -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 months ago
You are making it sound as if science==rationality. It is not always this way. I can give you many examples, but I will stick with one that is pretty relevant. During WW2, both the Germans and Japanese conducted some really fucked up medical experiments on civilians and PoWs.
There are many other examples, like research for biological weapons, for methods of torture and so on. Those things are very scientific, but not entirely 'rational'. So you see, you can't say: science is good, religion is bad. It's not that simple.
[–]randomly-generated 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago*
I feel the same way about it as ND Tyson does.
Science is a far more rational endeavor than religion. There's no way around that. You can't even argue it. The scientific method has no agenda. A world society based upon secular reasoning and the scientific method would be fucking leagues ahead of what we are likely to ever have.
Scientific fact is objective truth/observation. It's what people do with it that concerns morality. I can put my laptop in a pillowcase and club someone to death with it. That doesn't make laptops evil. That makes me a fucking asshole though.
[–]aec10 -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 months ago
Are the scientists that develop bombs the only one responsible for their use? No, of course not. But you can't say that someone who creates things that have one purpose only (to kill/destroy) is not responsible for his creation. Guns, for example, can be used for many purposes (sport, hunting, home defense). Someone who creates guns is not responsible for their use. Biological weapons, on the other hand, have only one use. Conducting medical experiments on unwilling subjects is even worse, of course.
The scientific method has no agenda, of course. But most scientists do have an agenda. I don't deny that laws should not be made on religious grounds. But saying that "a world without religion is better" is very simplistic. Did you watch the "Go God go!" South park episodes?
[–]randomly-generated 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago*
I don't base judgments off of south park episodes.
If a scientist tortures people or tries to wipe out loads of people with chemical weapons science is still not to blame. The person is to blame. Science itself is not the problem.
You have to take science and apply it rationally and reasonably. Secular humanism would be a good place to start. You cannot have one without the other and build a great society. You will never have a perfect society. What I know is that superstition only harms society.
Science does not automagically make everyone reasonable. You need a society that accepts science and are willing to back scientific endeavors. A society that is for evidence based changed in their government and one with reasonable moral values so they use their knowledge acceptably.
Consider for instance if everyone on Earth was like Sagan, Tyson, Krauss, Harris, Randi, etc. Not even as scientifically capable as them, just as morally thoughtful.
A world without religion is a very simple idea. Take a look at the world's most atheistic countries. Compare their crime rates and standards of living to any extremely religious country. The basis is there.
The solution isn't one thing. A society must adopt all of the above to be successful. Isn't that not extremely obvious?
Embrace facts, don't be superstitious, be morally accountable and responsible. Not that hard to grasp right?
I think there is something very wrong with the human race when the majority can't even meet such simple standards. Such obvious ones.
So if some scientist does something really fucked up, it is his own fault. But if a religious person does the same thing, it is the religion's fault. Is that correct?
[–]guy_lovejoy 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
theism = the beleif god(s) exist
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago
heism = the belief He-Man exists
[–]Riceater 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
ism = a cool suffix that makes everything sound better.
[–]imafunghi 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
sm = s + m
[–]mskyring 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
nooooo sm = s*m
[–]HerticHero -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 months ago
sm, sadism and masochism.
[–]5lbCockSlap 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Where Skeletor is the new Satan.
[–]garygaz 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
That's one of the thoughts I had once, the trouble with the idea of a god (raised a Catholic). I mean, the idea was that god wasn't created, and hence you can say that he must have thus been here for an eternity.
So, what was he doing before he made the universe? I mean he had an infinite amount of time before that, did he make other experiment universes or did he randomly go 'you know what, I have a pretty fucking good idea' and bam, we exist. How can you believe this shit.
:(
How can you believe this shit.
I don't know.. hmm.. the same way you can believe that there was no time before the big bang, but there was after?
[–]garygaz 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
How can you measure time if there is nothing to measure it against? If nothing is happening there is no time. It's actually pretty simple.
[–]PullOutBoy -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
Time is a constant.... I mean.. even before the big bang things were happening... right? right?? :(
[–]nodefect -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
*Raises "Nobody knows" card
The Big Bang is THE greatest mystery of science today, and its relation with time is a big part of this mystery. Was there a "mirror" time before the Big Bang, with the universe contracting into it just like the current universe is expanding from it? Is the universe a cycle of Big Bangs and Big Crunches? Or is there just no such thing as "before" the Big Bang? We don't know, and although I think the latter is currently the prevailing theory, some scientists say we might never know.
[–]garygaz 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Well, I used to think of a sort of omniscient clock which kept ticking no matter what happened. I mean, it's a voyage of discovery realising how little we know about basic concepts such as time, e.g. when I first discovered how when you move you are essentially time travelling, albeit an unbelievably small fraction.
For example if a man was travelling at the speed of light and a man was standing still, after a second the clocks would show drastically different times. So what is time? We know it isn't constant, we know it changes when velocity changes. So knowing this, if there is nothing, then there is no time. It may not be easy to wrap ones mind around but science doesn't claim to give easy, satisfying answers.
Yes, of course, but there was no time (nothing happening) and then suddenly a lot of shit started to happen. That's not very easy to explain or understand.
Well, I don't see what the fact of difficulty of understanding has to do with it. Religion is easy to believe, with no facts supporting it, science is hard to believe with facts supporting it.
I mean, personally, I found it difficult to grasp a lot of the concepts when I first started trying to question my religion but with some research and education it makes a lot more sense than religion does.
[–]aec10 -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 months ago
Religion is not concerned about physical facts. Facts are the realm of science (how things happen). Religion is about making sense of why things happen, and for what purpose. Since can never answer the question of purpose, there is no such scientific concept.
You might say: "But there is no purpose, things are the way they are just because." But I am sure even the most hardcore anti-theist will sometimes ask: "Why the fuck is this happening to me, what did I do to deserve this?"
Besides for that, there are other questions since can't answer. For example, what was at the time of big bang, what was before it, why did it happen? There are mathematical limits to those questions, it is impossible to even make a good guess, let alone to prove anything.
[–]aec10 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago
So, those who downvoted me, mind if you refute my argument?
[–]mleeeeeee 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
You're assuming that there is a purpose, which is assuming that the universe is guided by some intelligence, which is assuming theism. So you're just elaborately begging the question.
[–]aeoliscams -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
The question of "why" is itself retreating every day. Using rational arguments and science we have been able to answer "why" for a great number of things: why the winds blow, why the planets go into retrograde, why certain stones attract other metallic stones, etc. You surmise that one day we will reach the "end" of science, and on that day no more questions could be answered and all we would be left with is the solace that "god did it."
That day will not come. Yes, there are many processes which we do not understand today. There are more that we have an idea, but lack the ability to test that idea. Perhaps even more still that we don't even know that we don't know! But to confuse our current lack of an answer for a philosophical inability to reach that answer is naive.
As for your example about the big bang, there are ideas about what happened and why. I'm not a cosmologist so I lack the training to properly evaluate these ideas, but they do exist if you do even a cursory search for them.
[–]aec10 -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 months ago
The question of "why" is itself retreating every day. Using rational arguments and science we have been able to answer "why" for a great number of things: why the winds blow, why the planets go into retrograde[...]
That's not the "why" but the "how". How does the wind blow? What causes it to blow? In my post above, I used the "why" as in "what is the purpose".
As for your example about the big bang, there are ideas about what happened and why.
There are ideas of what happened AFTER it started. There are no ideas why it started, what happened at the very instant it started, or what was there before it started. So there is no valid scientific theory of the true origins of everything.
[–]aeoliscams 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
I think thrakhath summarizes my thoughts well. Reframing "why" in that poetic sense just seems to muddle the argument. Even if we could agree on what "why" is asking, we would then have to agree on why the "why" matters at all. Humans may crave answers and purpose, but would that purpose be significant even if we could identify it?
To respond to your second point, I think I watched a different special than the one I linked before. It was fairly recent, and Hawking was just the host of that episode (not the entire series). I'll keep searching for it.
[–]aec10 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
I don't see how that is in "poetic sense". it is in philosophical sense, and a great deal of people wonder if there is a purpose, and if there is, what is it. Why would it be significant? Because knowing what life is about helps you make the right choices. And since is never going to be able to bring us those answers.
[–]thrakhath 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
That's not the "why" but the "how". How does the wind blow?
And that's the other half of what he is getting at. The question "why" is itself problematic. Does it even mean anything to ask "why"? Every time we have pushed on that point we have realized that it doesn't mean anything, it's just a quirk of the egocentric human mind. The wind is a thing that the atmosphere does under certain conditions.
Unless you are going to get poetic, why doesn't mean anything. You want to think it does, but you can't even explain the concept of purpose without dipping into egocentrism. We have good reason to think that's a silly way to look at the universe because the universe appears to not care what we think about it.
[–]Ford_Imperfect -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 months ago
LOL cant tell if serious.....
[–]Riceater -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago
What's weirder is before he supposedly created the universe, there was no time. I feel that no matter what the origin of this reality/universe is, it will probably have nothing to do with any religion we've concocted thus far. If there is something out there that we could consider a God, it's pretty clear that he's indifferent to our suffering or our success.
Scientifically, yes, there was no time. But I think if you're going to subscribe to the belief that god created the universe (or at least a christian god) you have to concede that there was time before the big bang (I can't even remember if the angels pre-dated humans tbh).
If I was god and had heaven to myself with some sexy angels, I'd probably just throw a never ending party and not have to worry about all the shit that my pet hamsters keep fucking up.
[–]EverydayRapunzel 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
"...a bunch of everything rearranged itself for no reason what so ever..."
Or you know, it rearranged itself because it was not currently in an optimal state, and/or because it was acted upon by physical forces. But clearly that's improbable, and it would make more sense that an all-knowing being did it.
[–]HerticHero 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
The whole "it doesn't make sense that things just arranged themselves" argument is completely destroyed with a single word: entropy. You make a good point, sir.
[–]haneef81 -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
I highly encourage the distinction between Christianity and other religions. While convenient for this block of text, it is overreaching.
[–]ItsBecauseIm____ -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
This makes more sense than the original unedited version.
[–]fivo7 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
yes basically they are both cheer squads for different colors
[–]HellHaven 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Just so we're clear on this, the original was made by 4channers to troll other people on 4chan.
[–]deathcapt 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
It's funny I'll read these, and they'll like explain science, and it like makes perfect sense sometimes, and then after I'm thinking, why are you saying this? It's just a bunch of truth, then there's a line like "NO WAY JosE!". I then just feel bad for them.
[–]BBWasabi 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Wrong! God didn't create dinosaurs. He went and created modern animals and humans right from the start. Or at least that's what the bible says.
I wonder what christians think of dinosaurs.
[–]fuckinhell 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
I like the "Christians KNOW a wizard did it." response better.
[–]constantvariables -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
The irony of the word "magical" being used to fault atheist theory burns.
[–]parttimehuman 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
His point is that religious accounts of creation require a magical element. An incantation spell. It doesn't actually explain anything. It's no different than proclaiming that a giant troll farted the cosmos. It's a made up explanation. Science doesn't work like religion does and the original creators of that jpg are blind to that fact.
[–]postguy2 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
So...your contention is that nothing caused nothing like the original image says?
I fail to see how "An infinitely powerful, omniscient, conscious being came from nothing" is somehow more logical.
"The universe is too complex to just exist! So something more complex must have existed in order to create it!"
Ah, so logical.
[–]keeblur 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
More like "The belief that God poofed things into existence. The End"
[–]luckyman13 -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
I thought religious people dont believe in dinosaurs
[–]newtoschool -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago
Nice blanket statement. Can't tell if serious.....
[–]randomly-generated 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
The religious people around me, here in NC, go crazy when I suggest dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.
[–]newtoschool 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Like I said. Blanket statement. There are TONS of religious people who are fine with dinosaurs, and even evolution.
*Disclaimer: I am still very against their religion.
EDIT: millions of years ago is a different issue than simply their existence. Linked, but different.
There are tons that aren't. The bottom line is that their "beliefs" are wrong and the world is worse off for it as a whole.
Of course. We're worse off, too, for the ignorant being able to look at our apparent ignorance when we say things like "they all don't believe in dinosaurs", though.
I just wish people would be a little more careful not to give them that kind of mild ammunition.
They'll always be using NERF though, so there's that.
[–]Ford_Imperfect 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
i believed that religious people didnt believe in dinosaurs....this throws my whole belief system into whack....
[–]InsaneDrunkenAngel -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago
I can't tell what you changed in the picture...XD
[–]Xtinguish 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
You're forgetting the creationists who believe that it wasn't magicially rearranged that it appeared
[–]PullOutBoy 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
everytime I see the original photo of text that says "atheism" is "nothing came from nothing and that nothing exploded magically" bullshit it just drives me so fucking mad!!!
Seriously Christian retards... how could you be so divorced from reality, how can you be far gone and so arragont about your ignorance that you can't just step onto a college campus or library, talk to the professors, read the books and see for yourself that you are fucking wrong... grow the fuck up and stop being a fucking child. Atheism is not science. Its just the lack of a belief in stupid shit like religion. You want to put up a fight with science, I fucking dare you to go into a college classroom and try. The teacher will school the fuck out of you and shame you! but don't think atheism is one bit tied to any sort of science cause it isn't... goodness its so upsetting how stupid people want to be....
[–]Steve4727 -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 months ago
Idiots! Why cant I find one person to be somewhat intelligent!?! You guys do not even deserve to know what exactly occurred in the creation of our universe. Why is it that I hate just about everybody? Back to the lab with me I guess...
....uhm....you okay?
[–]Ford_Imperfect -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 months ago
Rannnnnndommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm LAAAAUGHGGLLLL _^
[–]ThreeKoolCats 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
WELL THIS CONVINCED ME. BYE GUYS, I'M OFF TO JOIN A CONVENT.
[–]Krupsky 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
Obvious troll is obvious.
[–]prattja8 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
obvious troll is obvious, 0/10 see me after class.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
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