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The reddit admins were sent an excerpt of chapter one of Penn Jillette's new book for r/atheism to preview.

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all 43 comments

[–]postguy2 15 points16 points ago*

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Every time.

Just yesterday I was telling a Creationist how evolution works, even explained for him the answer to the "why are there still monkeys" question (which he admitted "makes sense"), yet after I clearly answered a few more of the typical fallacious challenges ("only a theory", microevolution vs. macroevolution, missing links), he said, "Well I hope someday you accept the truth and validity of Creationism. Bye."

[–]venusdances 4 points5 points ago

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That doesn't mean that you didn't make him question things & help put things into perspective for him, it just means he wouldn't admit it to you. I hope.

[–]marc_jw -5 points-4 points ago

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I think your versing this too much against the faith as a whole, rather then just the thoery of our existence. "We came from primates, so God doesn't exhist." 200+ billion galaxies each with 200+ billion stars in each. No one has the answer, so anyone who claims to is a fool. Athiesm or Thiesm included. That's why both are faiths.

[–]postguy2 5 points6 points ago

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anyone who claims to is a fool. Athiesm or Thiesm included. That's why both are faiths.

Sorry, but that is absolutely ridiculous.

That's like saying, "Some people believe that giant, fire-breathing leprechauns farted the universe out, and others don't believe it. Since none of us know, both are faiths."

That is absolutely absurd, and with all due respect, I don't see how a thinking brain can produce the "logic" that you just did.

[–]WoollyMittens 0 points1 point ago

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Argument from ignorance: "I don't know how this works (yet), therefor God did it."

[–]Miss_Squeak 15 points16 points ago

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Batman shows up when you talk to Christians? Fuckin' a. That's kind of awesome.

[–]HairyAsHull 5 points6 points ago

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Hes there when hes needed.

[–]DimityGirl 5 points6 points ago

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I was having lunch with a Christian friend and for the first time the subject came around to evolution vs creationism. When I found out she was a creationist I just walked away.

[–]seanomenon 2 points3 points ago

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I hope you laughed as you walked away.

[–]DimityGirl 3 points4 points ago

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I was stunned. I knew she was dumb...but not this dumb.

[–]ataraxiaZERO 2 points3 points ago

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Good move too many redditors are wasting their time trying to convert religious types. You can't fix stupid!

[–]Skwerl23 0 points1 point ago

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Education fixes stupid.... problem is most people assume stupid means low brain function. There are many variations of it and some are fixable. Dont give up. Ever.

[–]Eskelsar -4 points-3 points ago

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I bet your friend was touched that your friendship relies solely on whether or not she agrees with you.

[–]DimityGirl 1 point2 points ago

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Well I never said that I am no longer friends with her. I was just a little shocked.

[–]Eskelsar 1 point2 points ago

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Sorry I just assumed that you waking away meant that you were no longer speaking to her.

[–]DimityGirl 0 points1 point ago

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I might be a admittedly aggressive atheist but I am not a dick to my friends.

[–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 1 point2 points ago

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It's one thing to not agree with someone over what sauce to use on a steak or whether Justin Bieber is a waste of space.

It's a different thing entirely to discover your friend thinks that gravity is a hoax.

[–]Eskelsar -2 points-1 points ago

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Well I've always been the person who's friends wit everybody. I really don't care what people believe in, even if it's ridiculous. And though I know what you're trying to say, the gravity being a hoax thing just sounds like a petty way to insult people. I've never seen anyone who has believed that.

[–]whatevesbro 1 point2 points ago

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I really don't care what people believe in, even if it's ridiculous

I don't think you really mean that.

[–]Eskelsar 0 points1 point ago

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Oh I do.

[–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 0 points1 point ago

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I do care what people believe in because one way or another it affects me and people I care about.

In this example, 'gravity is a hoax' is analogous to 'evolution is a lie'. Both have the same status and standing. It's not an insult, it's a reflection of reality.

[–]Eskelsar 0 points1 point ago

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Okay, maybe that's your situation, but it's not mine. My entire family is Christian. So are a lot of my friends and coworkers. Does religion come up with family? Yes, sometimes. But it comes up just as often as them asking me if I'm in a relationship. Should we never be friends with people who have an SO because it's possible that they'll prod you about your relationship status? Maybe you want to live that way, and maybe you're in a situation where people of religion affect you more, but I'm not in that situation. Unless I'm looking for a friend to talk science with, I'm not interested in people's opposing views on the origin of the universe, and they aren't interested in mine.

And I understand that they are basically the same, but again, most Christians do not believe that and to say that someone believes in something that they don't for the pure purpose of commenting on how ridiculous their views are is an insult. Not that I don't agree with you on how ridiculous Christianity (or all religion for that matter) is, but I choose to be someone's friend, whether or not they believe in something that isn't true.

[–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 2 points3 points ago

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Actually it is your situation.

I'll assume for a moment that you're from the United States. The disaster on 9/11/2001 was religiously inspired. The current conflicts in the Middle East are religiously inspired. The chances are that your family has been directly affected by one or both of these. Either way, everyone in that country is affected by them because of the effect they have on your elections, laws, taxes, television shows and, well, a million other things. If you've ever gone through customs, if you've ever heard of the Patriot Act, if you've ever disagreed with WBC, if you've ever seen a televangelist show or seen a campaign ad feature Romney or Santorum then you have been affected by religion.

Ridiculous beliefs lead to ridiculous acts. Acts which are often harmful. Even moderate religious people are problematic because they form a society in which extremists can exist. The fact of the matter is that, one way or another, you and me cannot peacefully coexist with people who think their god is going to send us to a place of eternal punishment simply because we disagree with them about what constitutes proper justification.

If someone wants to feel insulted because I point out that their views are ridiculous then they can go ahead and feel insulted. It doesn't change the fact that their beliefs are ridiculous and deserving of ridicule. People are entitled to their own opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts.

Many Christians believe that evolution is a lie and many Christians disparage the term 'theory'. To say 'evolution is just a theory' as if that doesn't also mean it is a fact is equivalent to saying 'gravity is just a theory' as if that doesn't also mean it is a fact. They reject the explanations of science while embracing all it does for them. This is not only ludicrous but hypocritical.

You may choose to be someone's friend even if you disagree on some fact or other and that's fine but how far can you push it? I imagine a friendship can easily survive differences over statements like "Justin Bieber is a good singer" or "Peanut Butter is the best sandwich topping". What about "Everyone should be vegetarian" or "Monkeys don't brush their teeth so I don't need to either"? What about "If you don't recycle then you hate the planet" or "The world will never run out of oil"? What about "All non-Muslims worship the devil" or "Abortion is murder"? What about "People who eat beans should be stoned to death" or "It's okay to kill slaves but only on Wednesdays"? What about "You voted for Obama? Don't you know he's an evil socialist? Why do you hate America!?" or "The world is flat and it's going to end on the first of April"?

You have to draw the line somewhere because at some point it's going to be your life on the line and you're going to have to care whether you like it or not.

[–]whatevesbro 0 points1 point ago

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Well put. That was solid.

[–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 1 point2 points ago

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Thanks man, I appreciate your taking the time to read it through :)

[–]Eskelsar 0 points1 point ago

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Right. I didn't say that no Christian affects me, I said being friends with Christians doesn't. Do I hate it when people like Rick Santorum use their religion to justify ridiculous agendas? Yeah. But that has nothing to do with me being kind to my fellow man regardless of his beliefs.

And that is not always true. You can't just take the extremists and say "here! This is what Christianity is all about!" Simply believing in a god is not dangerous whatsoever. I did for years and years, and I've always been against violence and I've always made friends with people regardless of their beliefs. And now I'm just doing the same as an atheist.

And again, why should I care if the guy next to me believes in a god? I really give absolutely no fucks. Should we also throw schizophrenics in the trash if they believe that aliens live on earth? You can be an asshole to them, but I'd rather be someone's friend, rather than their enemy.

And the thing is, I never said that religious beliefs can't get out of control. You're putting words in my mouth. Did I say that I had friends who told me I would burn for eternity or that I was dirty and worth nothing? Nope. If my friends did that, they would no longer be my friends.

Again, maybe Christians shit on your life on a daily basis, but that is not my situation.

Apologies for any spelling mistakes, going back through a comment on mobile is a bitch.

[–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 0 points1 point ago

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I'm glad that you have resolved to be kind to people regardless of their beliefs but the major religions today do not feel the same way. Their religions instruct them to either convert you or destroy you. Coexistence requires both parties to cooperate, it cannot be one-sided.

Sure, 'simply believing in a god' isn't harmless but beliefs don't exist in a vacuum. The consequences of believing in a god are harmful even when the belief itself is not. We don't throw schizophrenics in the trash but we do have places to send people who are too crazy to be part of normal society.

The thing about extremism is that these people are following the exact same book as 'moderate' religious people are. You can point to them and say 'here, this is what that religion is about' because they are justifying their actions with the book that defines that religion. Extremists are allowed to exist because moderates don't stop them. Moderates can't say 'no, that's not what the religion is anymore' because then they'd be disagreeing with their own holy text.

I never put words in your mouth, I just asked where you draw the line. You are happy to be friends with people who believe in god but not with people who think you're worthless and should burn forever. The problem here is that most of those people who believe in a god believe it based on the book that teaches them you should burn forever. It's not up to me to tell you where to draw the line though, you can put it where you want. I'm just saying that where you draw the line might not be as clear a proposition as you might think.

And your spelling is great :)

[–]Eskelsar 0 points1 point ago

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Fair enough. :D

[–]IAmBJ 2 points3 points ago

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Same deal with a girl who tried to tell me my grandfather should try 'crystal healing' instead of hormone treatment and chemo for his prostate cancer. I've never wanted to smack a bitch harder in my life

It's called alternative medicine for a reason

[–]seanomenon 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah, they're good at that.

The most amusing is when you make a good point and they reply with "stalemate." No, when you get up and walk away from the board, it isn't a stalemate. It's quitting.

[–]Altrieth 1 point2 points ago

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So, what's going on in this gif? I can only assume that it's a reverse of the "I'm Batman and I can breathe in space" bit.

Well, I can assume other things, but that one is the most awesome.

[–]punbot_9000 1 point2 points ago

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That's a jarring way to end a conversation.

[–]Zealex 0 points1 point ago

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So... did he suffocate?

[–]nurdboy42 0 points1 point ago

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What is Batman's religion?

[–]kragmoor 0 points1 point ago

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hmm which religions hate rock and roll

[–]Skwerl23 0 points1 point ago

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Not the church of the fonz

[–]zengeist 0 points1 point ago

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It was better in slow motion as the gif loaded.

[–]blackened_sunn 0 points1 point ago

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Aqua man seems really confused for some reason.

[–]SwissFamilyRonminson[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Well, Aquaman is essentially useless in space so he's probably wondering why he's there. But I haven't read any comics in awhile so they might have changed his powers.

[–]kragmoor 0 points1 point ago

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i was in a comic shop a while ago and i heard the guy at the counter say that worldwide aquaman gets more sales than spiderman

[–]blackened_sunn 0 points1 point ago

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Exactly! There aren't any dolphins in space to save him this time!

[–]PwnBuddy 0 points1 point ago

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Batman, Robin, and... MermaidMan is it you?