this post was submitted on
177 points (80% like it)
236 up votes 59 down votes

atheism

subscribe1,142,426 readers

1,048 users here now


Help Atheist Organizations!

The Secular Student Alliance, Camp Quest, and Foundation Beyond Belief were all nominated for the Chase Community Giving program, which awards grants based on the votes of the public. Everyone gets 2 votes on Facebook, plus an additional one if they share a CCG page. The links for them are:

SSA | CQ | FBB

Voting runs from September 6-19


Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome here. Please read our FAQ.

New posts: New Rising
Self posts: New Relevant
Non-image posts: New Relevant

Recommended reading and viewing

Thank you notes


Related Subreddits <--the big list

GodlessWomen YoungAtheists AtheistParents
BlackAtheism AtheistGems DebateAnAtheist
skeptic agnostic freethought
antitheism humanism Hitchens
a6theism10 tfbd AdviceAtheists

Events
10/5-6 NAPCON2012 - Boston
08/11 Regional Conference - St. Paul MN
Giving
DWB/MSF fundraiser
Kiva lending team
FBB's Appeal to Freethinkers to Fight Cancer
Camp Quest
Ex* Groups
ex-Muslim ex-Catholic ex-Mormon
ex-JW ex-Jew ex-SistersinZion
ex-Bahai ex-Christian ex-Adventist
Assistance
Coming Out
Atheist Havens
Start an Atheist Club at Your School

Chat: #reddit-atheism on irc.freenode.net

Watch: #/r/atheism on reddit.tv

Read The FAQ


Submit Rage Comic

Submit Facebook Chat

Submit Meme

Submit Something Else

a community for

reddit is a source for what's new and popular online. vote on links that you like or dislike and help decide what's popular, or submit your own! learn more ›

all 25 comments

[–]arbitraryentry 10 points11 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Rather than arguing, I usually just reframe it as something they'll agree with, but which will take them to a problematic conclusion once they think about it.

I call it time-release logic.

[–]kunstschmiede 3 points4 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Ooh, sounds good, examples?

[–]simonsarris 5 points6 points ago*

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I actually posted a few of these last night. I very rarely want to dispute things said in the bible of their beliefs. Instead I want them to tell me about their beliefs and what they think of them. I want to know how they feel about X, Y, and Z and I think asking good, sincere questions is a lot better than trying to debate.

Here's what I had posted last night as questions to ask. Some of them are a little confrontational, but I really try not to be. I don't necessarily even want an answer, I just want them to consider the questions. You can always tone them down and still ask the same questions.

The point here is to be sincere. Actually want to know what they think. Don't challenge their answers, just let them answer and move on.


What exactly did Jesus sacrifice when he died if he received eternal life? Isn't merely a horrible weekend a pretty good deal for eternal life, salvation, and sitting at the right hand of God? Haven't people been tortured much worse for much less in human history? What about the god Prometheus, who has his liver pecked out by a hawk every day just for giving man fire? Pretending both Jesus and Prometheus were true, which is the bigger sacrifice?

Do you believe it is better to be dead than alive? Do you think Christianity portrays it to be better dead than alive? Why or why not?

Do you think God's doctrine of being "all-loving unless you sleight him, and then you're going to be damned" is fair? How does it compare to say, an abusive boyfriend?

Put another way, The Biblical God is supposedly a God of love yet I demonstrate more paternal concern for my cat than he does for all of mankind even though he has infinite resources, infinite power, and infinite love for his children. My cat piddling on the rug is "wicked in my eyes" so I have appeared to him and demonstrated that this will not be tolerated. You’ll also note that I far more often appear to him and demonstrate my love by petting him, washing him, taking him to the doctor, and sundry other practices in accordance with my responsibilities to a creature under my care. God fails in this constantly and consistently. Why?

If you look at the Biblical God's power over time you notice that it diminishes rapidly up to the present day. It starts with creating the universe, then flooding the planet, causing plagues, walking on water, curing syphillis, and these days apparently appearing on toast. What gives here? Why is it that operationally, the Biblical God resembles not a ruler but the last fading smile of a cosmic Cheshire cat?

Would you rather live with someone who does not kill people because God says it is immoral, or a person who does not kill people because they think it a cruel thing to do?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Upvotes for the whole thing, but especially for "the last fading smile of a cosmic cheshire cat". Very poetic and I like it as an analogy for the diminishing of his presence.

[–]Man_with_the_Fedora 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

My buddy was talking about how all LGBTIA are abominations "and should be killed", so I asked him what he'd do if his son, who he loves immensely turned out to be gay.

[–]AnotherClosetAtheist 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Heliocentricity is Satan's lie!

loljk we knew thew whole time

Planets orbit in perfect circles!

loljk God revealed this thru scientists

Evolution is blasphemy! No global warming! No peak oil!

[insert retraction and acceptance here in 200 years]

[–]juturnaamo 6 points7 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Up vote, because he's sexy.

[–]Countshane 6 points7 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I stopped arguing because I am never going to change anybody's mind. I'll just keep quiet because I don't want to deal eith the stupidity.

[–]LtDanHasLegs[S] 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

I've heard people say that, but it's just not true. I know watching people discuss it from the sidelines was instrumental in getting me to confront my cognitive dissonance.

[–]cran-apple 1 point2 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

if an argument hits the core of your beliefs, it's hard not to have those thoughts linger whether they're reassessed orn't.

[–]bazookafox 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

It's a matter of choosing your battles. Of course I can argue until my face is blue as to why religion is (insert something bad here). But many times it is not worth it.

If it comes to someone actively calling me out and belittling my lack of faith... well then son, those are fightin' words.

[–]gmxpoppy 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

this is me with my boyfriend lately. he's coming around, but soooo slowly!

[–][deleted] ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

[deleted]

[–]gmxpoppy 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

nah, I kinda like him =)

[–]Kuroto 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

What movie/show is this? Looks really familiar...

[–]Vlyn 4 points5 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Firefly! Look it up, it's brilliant!

First watch the series, then the movie (Serenity) :-)

[–]cleversoap 5 points6 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Actually this is from Castle; I'm pretty sure as I'm detecting a distinct lack of spaceship. To be safe just watch everything Nathan Fillion is in.

[–]Vlyn 2 points3 points ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

What? O.o But I've seen him doing this gesture tons of times in Firefly.

Well, there are episodes without a spaceship too… but alright :-(

[–]Kuroto 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Hah, thanks for the replys, i'll check both out!

[–]violaceous 0 points1 point ago

Aha! I thought he looked a little too clean.

[–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

That's the wrong usage of 'anyway', by the way.

[–]d1jeditech 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

It doesn't usually do much good to argue with a believer, cause like William Harwood said: "The difference between faith and insanity is that faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence, whereas insanity is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence."

[–]i_like_bill_murray 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

So true. You get to a place in your atheism where you say to yourself..."What's the fucking point? This douche isn't going to change his stupid mind either way."

[–]OverlyHelpfulAdvice 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

this gif is getting old.

[–]Sandbox47 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Yup. This is me regarding religion, politics, nuclear power and Simon's Cat.

[–]aazav 0 points1 point ago

sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

Your title makes no sense.