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all 113 comments

[–]onanym 8 points9 points ago

I do believe it's the other way around. They're not uncertain because they're wise, they're wise because they're uncertain.

But I'm not sure, obviously.

[–]TwystedWeb 4 points5 points ago

Doesn't everybody in r/atheism suffer from this? And suffer from the same condition Russell descibes?

[–]geodesic42 6 points7 points ago

Was gonna post that. Well played.

[–]Starstuck8 0 points1 point ago

Should this be the "Russell effect"?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]quakemazer 0 points1 point ago

Do you know anything about Bertrand Russell? This has everything to do with atheism.

[–]InterstateDonkey 0 points1 point ago

How is this different from hubris?

[–]Zerak-Tul 1 point2 points ago

Hubris only applies to inept people over-estimating their own abilities, not capable people under-valuing their own abilities.

[–]AzureTranquility[S] 0 points1 point ago

Ah yes. Very true indeed! Thanks for pointing that out.

[–]gabriot 0 points1 point ago

beat me to it...

[–]Xcaliber_2276 6 points7 points ago

It's actually from a very good poem by Yeats:

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[–]AbeDrinkin 1 point2 points ago

Control-Fed to find you! Yay creepy Irish poetry.

[–]Xcaliber_2276 0 points1 point ago

As many times as this gets reposted, some asshole like me posts this, lol.

[–]prezuiwf 14 points15 points ago*

Wow this such a great quote, I hope it gets posted on r/atheism 50 times a week!

Oh wait...

[–]iliveinyoureyelid 4 points5 points ago

This isn't even the right quote, which is:

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.

[–]TARDISeses 18 points19 points ago

But people look down on agnosticism for not being 100% certain?

[–]CaddyStrophic 6 points7 points ago

I would argue that people look down on agnosticism more for giving certain religions enough credibility to possibly be correct. (Weird sentence, I know.)

[–]nielish 7 points8 points ago

So you are certain that “religion” is wrong.

[–]CaddyStrophic 3 points4 points ago

If this is aimed at me, then yes, I am certain the bible is not completely correct.

[–]nielish 2 points3 points ago

More so, are you certain that there is no God? And I do apologize, I do not say make that statement as an aggressive argumentative one. I am truly curious, and yes I am a Christian.

[–]magicaldung 2 points3 points ago

As certain as I am about the question of the existence of unicorns, leprechauns, fairies and the motherfucking flying spaghetti monster.

I can't disprove any of these, including your god, but you can't prove your god. And your religion brought up the idea of a god without evidence, so why would we need to disprove it?

:) <-- smiley face, so you read this in a nice voice!

[–]AzureTranquility[S] 0 points1 point ago

The demand for certainty is natural to man, but is nevertheless an intellectual vice. As long as men are not trained to withhold judgement in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it it likely that their leaders will either be ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans. To endure uncertainty is difficult, but so are other virtues.

[–]reaganveg 0 points1 point ago

"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."

[–]CaddyStrophic 0 points1 point ago

I'm not certain there is no "God". But, I am certain he doesn't matter.

[–]aroundthehouse -1 points0 points ago

Are you certain that there is?

[–]nielish 3 points4 points ago

My friend, I have faith there is. I am certain of the peace in my heart and the love that surpasses all understanding that my faith in God provides. I am not going to go all Pasqual’s wager on you, my faith is simply that my faith. If there is nothing and no meaning to this life, and peace and happiness is all there is, I argue that I have found it, of that I am certain.

[–]instago 2 points3 points ago

On the flip side, there's war and sorrow, which somehow I doubt a benevolent creator would allow. That's the gist of the problem of evil.

Imagine if you were God, would you create a world full of evil and inequality? Even genetically, one could have allowed for people to at least be on a much more equal footing: equal fitness), essentially. I suppose it may be argued that this would limit the beauty of life in diversity, but I'd counter that in diversity there is so much inequality that it is somewhat evil. Why allow terrible genetic disorders or even mental disorders when an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being could simply will them away? I see no reason not to, unless one contends that God works in mysterious ways. That, then, brings its own problems. If God works in mysterious ways, and God desires our understanding, how can we understand him? We cannot.

If we can't even come to agreement on a definition of God, then it follows that perhaps God cannot even create his own beings to have the capacity to understand him, and thus believe in him. However, if we can all agree that God is omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent, and desires our love and understanding, then there exists very good reason that he does not exist, for the aforementioned reasons. If God lacks any one of the first three traits, he is not God.

Maybe I'm just a 'fundamentalist atheist', but I think it can be shown through logic that a deity under those conditions cannot exist. Maybe this also stems from my own battles with depression, and my definition of myself as unfit biologically, but I still think that we can look outside ourselves, and, through reason, determine that such a God does not exist.

If all we have is faith, then I ask, why did God gift us reason? I feel as if reason is our most defining characteristic as humans. If we abandon that in the face of the veil of faith, then what are we if not empty bodies devoid of wisdom? Maybe one could argue that faith exists, in a way, even in the sciences. How many of us take it that gravity exists, without rigorously testing it? I know we can all pick up an object and drop it, but who's to say it won't fly away at the millionth drop, or trillionth? I contend that reason is why it won't. We have no experience that suggests that the object will magically do something other than drop. That experience is all we have, and gravity has been observed for generations as acting the same way.

I'm not a great writer, and it's entirely possible I'm not getting my ideas across coherently without sounding like a fool, but this is where I stand. I don't believe in God, and I think there's reasonable logic to support that belief. Just because an idea may be difficult to prove, or is shrouded in doubt, does not mean there is no right or wrong answer.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

Kierkegaard, Dostoevsky, and many others believed that the existence of evil necessitated a belief in God. Someone who truly realizes the way of existence is going to be depressed at how hopeless the human condition is and God is the only way out.

Why does a God have to desire our love and understanding? Maybe this conception is just wrong and he doesn't give a shit about humans but that doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Human conception of God is an attempt to define God, not a definition of.

Reason does not make an accurate depiction of the future. All you know when dropping a ball is that every other time you have, it's fallen downwards. You don't know anything else. There's no reason that it should now other than it has before and reason can't help you with that.

Both Kant and Wittgenstein had their doubts about the extent to which reason can really help us to understand the world. Scientific laws and reason are almost definitely an accurate depiction of the way the physical world works but the physical world does not work that way because of science and reason. Science and reason are just humans doing their best to explain the way things are and probably will be but they are not absolute. Kant held that reason is certainly a superb tool for answering questions but that it is has its limits and it shouldn't be frowned upon to speculate as to what else there might be.

Disclaimer: I'm an atheist.

[–]SicSemperHumanus 2 points3 points ago

and peace and happiness is all there is

Is that all there is? I mean even without a god, surely there is more to life than that.

[–]TARDISeses 2 points3 points ago

Perhaps. My personal view is despite the absence of proof in favour of a deity, the universe may or may not be infinite in size and age - and in that anything could happen. I guess thats just my wild philosophical imagination wanting the ending in 2001: A Space Oddysey to come to fruition!

[–]spencer8ab -2 points-1 points ago*

Edit: Clarification

Infinite size does not imply infinite possibilities (Edit: This means laws, not actual arrangements of those laws.), if you ran a random number generator to give you an integer between 1 and 100 you could run it an infinite number of times, but you still could only get 100 different values. Edit: And of course their would be an infinite number of possible arrangements of those numbers, meaning an infinite number of "possibilities" in the way some people are defining it, but I am defining it as physical laws.

[–]vinvv 4 points5 points ago*

What if you ran a random number generator to give you an integer between 1 and ∞? 1-100 is a finite set of possibilities, so I don't really see what you're saying with this in talking about infinite possibilities.

[–]Spheniscus 2 points3 points ago

The impossible can't happen even in an infinite universe. A square will not be a circle no matter where you go. There might be an infinite amount of possibilities, but even that doesn't mean everything is a possibility.

[–]vinvv 2 points3 points ago

If a square were to become a circle it would no longer be a circle, but rather it would be a square. That's just a silly platitude. If Impossible becomes possible it no longer becomes impossible but rather it becomes possible. Impossible and possible are terms that affirm each-other. Basically you are giving both impossible and possible a definitive answer in being finite. Explain this to me if you can how you know impossible as well as possible are finite? It's easy to talk in abstract platitudes is the bottom line.

[–]Spheniscus 1 point2 points ago

I misread spencer's post, thought he was arguing something else. I never meant that impossible and possible are finite but that even if they're infinite and given infinite space, the impossibilities will still never happen.

[–]spencer8ab 0 points1 point ago*

Huh, I never meant that either. He's terribly misrepresented my argument. The point of using a random number generator as an example was to demonstrate how some parameters must be fulfilled. I was trying to use the finite number of "possibilities" as a finite number of laws of physics, not as actual configurations that follow those laws which of course can be infinite. In the random number generator example, there are finite numbers of individual numbers, but the possible configurations of those numbers are infinite. I don't know how vinvv has managed to twist the argument this much.

[–]vinvv 0 points1 point ago

It's because you spoke in abstract terms rather than saying exactly what you wanted to say. Allegory and scientific reasoning can be poor bedfellows especially when you speak in such abstract terms when you'd rather mean something that you take in more of a concrete manner such as laws. I'm still curious about my question I asked you on the other portion though.

[–]vinvv -1 points0 points ago

Totally agree, possibility wouldn't make sense without impossibility.

[–]vinvv 0 points1 point ago

As you know. Implying that the universe operates on our own model of physics and the unobservable aspects of the universe also operate on those same models. One can only posit that---as we know it now, not everything is a possibility and until it can be challenged it does not need to be considered. But just saying it outright is silly to me.

[–]spencer8ab -2 points-1 points ago

The point is that there are not infinite possibilities for the universe. Things have to follow basic laws of physics. The universe is infinite in size, not in possibilities.

[–]vinvv 2 points3 points ago

not in possibities.

Why is it not infinite in possibilites?

[–]spencer8ab -2 points-1 points ago

Because things have to follow the laws of physics for example. The law of conservation of mass (not at a quantum level I know). Impossible things are impossible no matter how many times you try.

[–]vinvv 1 point2 points ago

That's just paradoxical jargon limited by our constructs of language. What if one were to say that impossible things and possible things both reached a perceivable infinity? I'm just not getting the connection you are making.

The reason it's paradoxical jargon: IE platitude--is that if something were impossible if it became possible it would no longer become impossible. It was "impossible" to fly to the moon years ago too, but that is just a platitude to serve a point.

[–]spencer8ab 0 points1 point ago*

There are a finite number of laws which must be followed, which was how I was defining "possibilities" in my allegory. Possibilities as you seem to be defining are of course infinite, just like there are an infinite number of arrangements of numbers in the random number generator example, but the arrangements must be made out of the "possibilities," or laws.

[–]Krylancello 2 points3 points ago

Agnosticism is not a stand-alone belief. It's a statement of knowledge.

I would argue that most of us on this board are Agnostic Atheists. i.e. I don't know if there's a god, but I don't believe in one.

[–]awake4o4 1 point2 points ago

i don't really think agnosticism is the middle ground between theism/atheism but the only thing that really irritates me about these so-called agnostics is they are so deluded in their wishy-washy mindset that they don't value the use of reason, logic and evidence in the formulation of arguments.

[–]d1nt_ban_me_again 1 point2 points ago

wishy-washy mindset that they don't value the use of reason, logic and evidence in the formulation of arguments.

I'm an agnostic who I rejects all man made religions as nonsense. But I don't reject the idea of a god/creator.

Prove to my wishy-washy mindset that god does not exist.

[–]awake4o4 0 points1 point ago

Richard Dawkins, who's considered one of the most well known atheists in the world also doesn't reject the idea. I'm pretty sure most atheists are well aware of the null hypothesis and know that to come to a conclusion either way would be to step off the road of what can be known, and head in the direction of a belief. The fact is, however, that there does seem to be a rift between those who would call themselves merely agnostics (as opposed to agnostic atheists). These agnostics seem to be very against offending another's beliefs even if the argument for doing so is based purely on the best reasoning of the available evidence. Even if the idea is only in a book, that's not being flaunted in any way or having churches built to celebrate it's existence. No, it's wrong. And they will go so far as to say that in doing so equates the atheist with the theist which, in my mind, can only come from a wishy-washy attitude.

[–]d1nt_ban_me_again 0 points1 point ago

I'm pretty sure most atheists are well aware of the null hypothesis

Most atheists are retards. see r/atheism for proof.

These agnostics seem to be very against offending another's beliefs even if the argument for doing so is based purely on the best reasoning of the available evidence.

I, d1nt_ban_me_again, am not afraid of offending anyone. As I posted already, I think ALL man-made religions are NONSENSE. Do you get that? And equally retarded are atheist scum like you.

The best way to describe myself is ANTI-religious agnostic.

The feeble-minded atheist confuse their hatred of religion with the philosophical question of god/creator/origin/etc.

Religion, such as christianity, has been proved to be bullshit. Not only is it self-contradictory, it is full of scientific, historical and logically errors. The question of god/creator/beginning is still up for debate.

[–]awake4o4 0 points1 point ago

i think you're right.

[–]TARDISeses 0 points1 point ago

Well that's a bit of a generalisation, isn't it? You're implying agnostic atheists could be just as illogical and irrational as any religious advocate?

[–]awake4o4 0 points1 point ago

not agnostic atheists but those who define themselves purely as agnostics. those are the ones who think atheists are denying god/or making a claim that god doesn't exist. yes, those are the ones who are usually into whimsical thinking and are illogical.

[–]dVnt 0 points1 point ago

This is a confusion of logical context. One does not need to be 100% certain of their disbelief in something. Not being convinced by an argument is not a de facto positive assertion for which a burden of proof should be applied.

Atheism is simply an appropriate regard for agnosticism.

[–]ButtRockAnarchy 3 points4 points ago

posted on the most arrogant subreddit.

[–]TOMASPVP 4 points5 points ago

Oh god, the irony.

[–]presidentender 2 points3 points ago

How uncertain are you? How much doubt do you hold in your position?

[–]angelrosie090 4 points5 points ago

A healthy amount of doubt, being completely sure of something makes you either a fool or a fanatic.

[–]instago 1 point2 points ago

I disagree. Maybe I'm just taking your comment way out of context, but there are plenty of logical proofs in mathematics that would love for you to call the writers fools or fanatics. They're just about as sound as anything can be. And if we can accept some reason as sound, then we can accept that we can place this reason in the realm of the existence of God, and come up with a true or wrong answer. Personally, I believe the right answer is that there is no (theistic) God.

[–]gnothisauton 0 points1 point ago

Mathematics is just about the only arena where you can still find absolute truth, because nothing less than the absolute truth is accepted.

[–]HeraclitusCure 2 points3 points ago*

Wittgenstein was notoriously certain of himself, despite being a genius on Russell's own admition. Yet one might say that genius aren't always all that wise.

Doesn't mean they aren't right.

EDIT: But no, I won't upvote you for posting such an overused Russell quote. It's about as original as quoting the Lord's Prayer or Psalm 23 on r/christianity. Enough karma-necrophilia on this subreddit already, repeatedly chanting two dozen atheist mantras overr black and white pictures is pointless.

[–]Kombat_Wombat 2 points3 points ago

Seriously, this should be in /r/atheism's FAQ's. I've seen the Dunning-Kruger effect reposted at least 50 times. I think I've seen this more than I've seen cats on reddit.

Alternately, I can just post the Dunning-Kruger effect to prey on the egos of redditors to feed my own ego through karma points.

[–]darwins_spear 10 points11 points ago

The irony of applying that phase to this board has made my morning!

[–]Imperceptus 5 points6 points ago

Catholic Seminarian/Philosopher here, It's refreshing for me to see a quote by Bertrand Russell on r/atheism. The modern Atheist should look to great atheistic philosophers in past centuries rather then the awful work put out by Dawkins and Hitchens. It's like going from Bach to Justin Bieber. Tip for Atheists: Study good atheistic philosophers, not shitty ones. With love, your reddit catholic seminarian philosophical consultant friend.

[–]holyschmidt 0 points1 point ago

Tip for atheists: read all atheistic philosophers, not just the ones your catholic seminarian friend recommends.

I agree that everyone should read past philosophers, heck i would be happy if people just read more in general. But to say that Dawkins, and Hitchens (especially) are shitty is way off base.

[–]Drakkar_ 1 point2 points ago

[–]d1nt_ban_me_again 1 point2 points ago

pity, r/atheist so certain of themselves.

[–]MeshesAreConfusing 1 point2 points ago

Yeah man. Everybody knows atheist redditors are the wisest people on Earth, not some dumb fundies!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

can't think of anyone more doubtful in their beliefs than /r/atheism!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

This really shouldn't be a r/atheism post because it seems like it's suggesting that the theists are the fools and the atheists are the wise. You can apply this to both theists and atheists, democrats and republicans, and etc.

[–]nielish 8 points9 points ago

Honestly, as a Christian on reddit, the atheists are the ones who come across as the ones so sure of themselves. I do know that is a blanket statement, which is a bit unfair. But viewing the posts on r/atheism I really do not see much self reflection or questioning, I so see why many individuals think specially Christians are idiots, fool or whatever course word comes to their mind.

[–]awake4o4 1 point2 points ago

it's hard not to treat religion, as well as the religious, with contempt. imagine you're trying to solve a difficult equation and people keep telling you 2+2=5. after spending the better part of your life trying to explain that 2+2=5 isn't the answer eventually you have to either ignore, dismiss or have a laugh at their expense; that's all you can do.

[–]Tyranith 0 points1 point ago

That's one of the best analogies of religious thinking I've heard; consider it stolen.

[–]nielish 0 points1 point ago

well if this life is all there is, why waste your time having contempt for individuals who are in your view ignorant? Why not spend your time running through a field of flowers enjoying this very short life while you can?

[–]awake4o4 0 points1 point ago

well, reddit is one of many fields of flowers i like to run through. lol

funny thing is though, you really did hit the nail on the head. we never chose life, but we did choose to live. why did we do that? our own want drove us, and pain. these things make us all that we will ever be, and so we are creatures that will forever be grasping. but when you realize that and how life is just this vicious cycle of want and pain maybe it's easier to stop grasping. and when you stop grasping, you'll no longer be guided by fears and worries. don't let death drive you, but life. you can choose to opt out of this bondage at any time, because that's what it is, but we are so made that it's preferable to the one thing that's begging to relieve it. anddd... when you have contempt for your own want, and yet ironically go with the show and enjoy yourself anyway, and death is just a funny little thing that you're kind-of-sort of looking forward to, then i think you'll have a much more intimate experience with this one life you've drunkenly stumbled into.

[–]dVnt 3 points4 points ago

Honestly, as a Christian on reddit, the atheists are the ones who come across as the ones so sure of themselves.

This is ridiculous. For thousands of years people have been carrying on pretending to know things they don't actually know, and the moment a group of people get together and acknowledge this we are all of a sudden "the ones who come across as the ones so sure of themselves"?

When you realize that what we're "sure" about (and the word "sure" still doesn't appropriately apply to most residents of /r/atheism) is simply that you are not as sure as you pretend to be, it kind of takes the wind out of your sails.

[–]hammiesink 3 points4 points ago

the atheists are the ones who come across as the ones so sure of themselves.

I agree. Even my wife, who is non-religious and non-theistic like myself, took a gander at /r/atheism for a bit and asked me why these people are so certain. What they seem certain of, of course, is materialism: only matter and energy exist, and everything can be explained in terms of those. If I ever bring up abstract objects, they come out of the woodwork to try to find a way, any way, to get rid of them. Which makes it crystal clear that they do have a positive position and thus a burden of proof, yet they hide behind their "weak atheism" so they don't have to do any work.

[–]Tyranith 0 points1 point ago

What abstract objects?

[–]hammiesink 0 points1 point ago

[–]Tyranith -1 points0 points ago

Give me an example of an abstract object.

[–]hammiesink 0 points1 point ago

See the article. It lists examples.

[–]Tyranith 0 points1 point ago

I just want you to give me one example of an abstract object. Then I can formulate a counter-argument.

[–]hammiesink 0 points1 point ago

Why? To prove my point?

I'm not defending the existence of abstract objects, here.

[–]Binko -1 points0 points ago

The only thing that atheists tend to be certain about is rationality. And no, rationality does not bear the essential burden of proof when questioned by irrationality.

[–]hammiesink 3 points4 points ago

Not in my experience. Granted, this is inductive evidence only, and tends towards generalizing and stereotyping, but most atheists I meet are die-hard materialists.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

"Why does the cult call themselves the Reasonablists?"

"Well, they figure if people criticize them, it'll seem like they're attacking something reasonable."

[–]Binko 0 points1 point ago

From an atheist point of view fairy tales are simply fairy tales and not worth a lot of reflection. If you read Winnie The Pooh to your kids (if you have any) do you sit around and wonder if the Pooh world is real? Do you seriously question or reflect upon your rational belief system because of this fairy tale?

That's how atheists often view christianity as well as all other mainstream religions.

The reason chistianity gets the most scorn is that christians are the most numerous by far in America as well as being the only religion that actively pushes itself upon people. I really can't remember the last time a Muslim came to my door preaching or raised a stink about prayer in the public school or tried to promote local laws based on his religion.

[–]brownstoned 0 points1 point ago

Everyday I'm Russellin'

[–]TheJanks 0 points1 point ago

This speaks volumes to my psyche.

[–]agnusn 0 points1 point ago

I only wish this were so. The certainty in these posts proves him wrong

[–]ForgottenLore90 0 points1 point ago

... i think.

[–]protocos 0 points1 point ago

But who is the fool and who the wiser person.

[–]magnumdb 0 points1 point ago

I'm not sure about this.

[–]JFoggers 0 points1 point ago

All I could think when I saw this was that Bertrand Russell should be played by John Hurt if anyone ever makes a film about him.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago*

Russell made his career on Frege's doom through his work The Principles of Mathematics, which opposed Frege and was rumored to have been stolen from Ernst Zermelo, who had confided in Russell on many occasions and spit-balled his ideas in confidence to Russell. After convincing Frege his theory of mathematics was horribly flawed, Russel managed to usurp Frege's sovereignty as a philosopher of mathematics and as a result Frege fell into a huge depression.

Russell postulated his famous Paradox, which basically disproved Frege's theory of mathematics. Once Frege went insane, Russell applied the Axiom of Infinity, to save the day and therefore upheld that it cured Russell's Paradox, an argument which Frege continued to dispute to his early grave.

[–]Nottobetriffledwith 0 points1 point ago

I dunno, he says that so confidently.

[–]wanderederer1 0 points1 point ago

Like a baus.

[–]brianbrianbrian 0 points1 point ago

I am 100% certain that I don't know what I'm talking about.

[–]nthensome 0 points1 point ago

I upvoted this last week as well...

[–]nielish 0 points1 point ago

If one day you were to come across irrefutable proof that there is a creator, an architect to the universe, and at the end of this physical life there are consequences for our actions. Would you still not care?

[–]eyesayuhh 0 points1 point ago*

This entire thread is silly - it's become a contest of who's more doubtful. It's not a competition. My interpretation of this quote is simply of how someone can be confident by being dumb. I can see how this appeals to atheist because the idea of a man being eaten by a whale and coming out several days later alive is unbelievable. Who's really the fool for believing it?

fool noun 1. a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.

[–]XtortionBear 0 points1 point ago

r/atheism must be full of fools, then, because you all are the most self-congratulatory and self-assured people I've ever seen in my life.

[–]imbadatthese 0 points1 point ago*

I'm a Christian and I can get on board with this. Truly, the Christian doctrine states that men are fools. Any Christian who thinks otherwise is wrong.

[–]pakiman47 0 points1 point ago

No one is as certain of themselves as r/atheism. Be honest.

[–]ILoveJesusALot 0 points1 point ago

He also got totally raped in arguments by some kid in his early 20s named Ludwig Wittgenstein.

Checkmate, Atheists.

[–]andrewsmith1986 -1 points0 points ago

Has it been a month already?

[–]aceist 0 points1 point ago

OMG YOU'RE FUCKING EVERYWHERE!

[–]andrewsmith1986 0 points1 point ago

You mean in a subreddit with 545k users?