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top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]InfernalH 724 points725 points ago

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this shit's real. Kyle Hockenberry of 1st Infantry. Lost his legs and his left arm to an IED in Afghanistan last June. full story

[–]Dekar173 34 points35 points ago

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If only the people sending troops out for nothing were the ones who fell victim to such violence instead.

[–]carpe_deez 3 points4 points ago

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I agree. I also agree that citizens choose to be in the military on their own accord. Where does that leave us now?

[–]baykid27 3 points4 points ago

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Don't wish injuries or violence like that on anybody....

[–]lomesh 27 points28 points ago

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This really should be at the top, I came back to the thread hoping for more information after seeing the picture.

[–]potato11teen 30 points31 points ago

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May your wish be granted.

poof ↑

[–]Wakamezake 6 points7 points ago

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Who you callin' a poof!

[–]isthistheinternet 3 points4 points ago

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Another read is the story that this was actually taken from. Journalist flew around with my buddies medivac unit for a while in Afghanistan. They always fly low, and never fly straight. original story

[–]NewDrekSilver 142 points143 points ago

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Man, war sucks.

[–]xyroclast 142 points143 points ago

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Completely avoidable war sucks even more.

[–]PipingHotSoup 4 points5 points ago

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Yeah... I just wish I could make it clear to these people that I, at least, do not consider what they're doing a sacrifice. I consider it a waste of a beautiful and precious life by an uncaring entity.

[–]snipes1191 34 points35 points ago

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am i that drunk or did this actually hit me fucking hard. fuck war and fuck people dying for bullshit reasons.

[–]hombreesecholo 39 points40 points ago

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Imagine what you would say when you see a picture of the thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women, and children in the Middle East killed by the hands of the American gov't and military. It's so strange how isolated and cut off from the actual world we are in America that we don't feel the destruction and potential blowback we are causing around the world and continue to vote in Presidents and Congressmen so willing to wage war. The Military Industrial Complex rules our culture and we desperately need it to collapse. Yes, war sucks and we need to do something about it.

[–]NewDrekSilver 16 points17 points ago

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I know man, it's crazy to think about. Over 110,000 innocent civilians killed in Iraq. That's insane! And only about 3,000 died on 9/11? What America did to Iraq was the mathematical equivalent of approximately 37 9/11's. And yet we still bitch about it.

[–]theparagon 6 points7 points ago

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Roughly 13% of the civilians killed in Iraq were killed by US/Coalition forces.

In Afghanistan, roughly 80% of civilians were killed by the Taliban

[–]lurkersaurus 2 points3 points ago

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Of course, most of those innocent civilians were killed by bombs and mortars fired by insurgents, but who gives a fuck about facts, right?

[–]Sanity_prevails 25 points26 points ago*

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I was going to say, sacrifice for what? For "liberating" a dirt hole somewhere? I am sure his loved ones did not want him to sacrifice both legs and left arm. Or did he love Bush? Just sayin'

EDIT: Anticipception

[–]ArecBardwin 5 points6 points ago

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Obama was president when this kid enlisted. What does loving Bush have to do with anything?

[–]heygabbagabba 3 points4 points ago

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He did it for cash.

[–]breakfastman 8 points9 points ago

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I hope all you bastards that said, "hur dur, he volunteered, he's stupid hur dur" fucking voted, because if not, you all are a bunch of assholes.

[–]BBEnterprises 1 point2 points ago

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Yes, because voting is the panacea to all societal woes.

[–]9teendelta 6 points7 points ago

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This guy stepped on an IED right behind my brother in Kandahar Valley, Afghanistan. I still keep in touch with him via facebook, he has lost both legs and left arm. Besides that he has made a full recovery and still loves America! It makes me feel good that you guys still care. I posted this to r/military a few months ago as well.

[–]clarithium 318 points319 points ago

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Except he's sacrificing his life on a rich man's whim, not for anyone he loves who is in danger. that's why it is sad, that someone willing to put shit on the line is being taken advantage of for stupid shit. fuck the world

[–]tehvgg 89 points90 points ago

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Not sure why you're being downvoted, it's true. War is waged by men in power, and good men and women die for it while the ones in power sit in safety.

[–]thepriestofhiroshima 5 points6 points ago

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Logged in to upvote this.

There is no excuse. This man lost the use of his body for the rest of his life because rich men needed military contracts filled and he signed up.

Which is deeper now, your outrage? Your pity?

[–]YesYesLibertarians 74 points75 points ago*

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What an overwhelming image. And yet all I can think of is Henry Kissinger.

Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.

Leave it to the federal government to take the selfless valor of young men like this and pervert it into a tool of power and politics.

[–]lajksdgbiu 4 points5 points ago*

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I'm trying to find this quote in context but I'm not having any luck. It was supposedly taken from Kissinger's book “Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW’s in Vietnam.” This quote doesn't sound like Kissinger to me, and I honestly don't know why someone who thought soldiers were "dumb, stupid animals" would write a book about the tragedy of their deaths... Can someone provide some context?

[–]copperpony 1 point2 points ago

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Also, someone who was in the Army himself.

[–]Kalium 5 points6 points ago

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Leave it to the federal government to take the selfless valor of young men like this and pervert it into a tool of power and politics.

Please explain to me at what point in history this was ever any different.

[–]Tabdelineated 1 point2 points ago

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"War is when the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing each other." -Niko Bellic

[–]Pressondude 1 point2 points ago

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War is when the old and bitter trick the young and stupid into killing each other.

[–]christianrightwing 122 points123 points ago

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WHAT IS HE SACRIFICING HIS LIFE FOR?

[–]k1down 16 points17 points ago

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The gears of the machine are greased with blood and sweat.

[–]silencer1581 1 point2 points ago

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Great comment that really sums it all up.

[–]GummyGummerson 145 points146 points ago

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Around $24,000 / year.

[–]Xerxys 21 points22 points ago

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My fucking god ... NO!

Oh gosh, I just checked ... I make MORE than an ARMY person??? Fuck the US army! And to think there was a time I contemplated joining ....

HOLY FUCK!

[–]necroforest 23 points24 points ago

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Not quite.

You only make $25k a year, but all of your expenses (housing, food, medical insurance, etc) are paid for by the government, so your "real" compensation is worth more like $50k.

[–]mamamamaa 16 points17 points ago

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Funny when I bring this argument to the debate about european social system, all reddit is "you can't count it like that"

[–]big99bird 4 points5 points ago

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That has never happened before on reddit.

[–]angrydrone 30 points31 points ago

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Did you figure in housing allowance, food allowance, special duty pay and medical coverage? That's a huge chunk of pay that is in addition to the base pay.

[–]Trumanator 15 points16 points ago

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not to mention the signing bonus, and free training (not just how to kill people).

[–]flex_luger 6 points7 points ago

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If he was an officer at home in the States, sure. If this guy is a lower rank he doesn't get a housing allowance, he lives in shitty barracks that are worse than any dorm room. He doesn't get a food allowance, he gets food from a chow hall that no shit has Grade F meat labeled "For Prison and Military Use Only". He gets special duty pay because getting blown up should net you a bonus. Ditto for the free medical coverage. Or in your opinion should he have to pay co-pays and other medical fees in order to be saved from the wreckage?

[–]angrydrone 9 points10 points ago

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I'm just saying that pay is after he gets all that paid for so it's not as terrible as it initially seems. Nobody joins to get rich. Of course I don't think he should pay for medical. I never said anything like that. People that put their lives on the line for our safety shouldn't have to worry about anything like that.

[–]serc0 1 point2 points ago

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Don't know about the army... I was in the Navy and everything you just said is completely false.

[–]Csusmhistory 1 point2 points ago

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Don't forget Educational benefits.

[–]ethertrace 7 points8 points ago

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Well, that's their take home pay. They don't have to pay for rent or food or medical costs or anything like that. Of course, as we can see, there are other costs they tend to bear.

[–]OuchLOLcom 1 point2 points ago

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I bet you dont get free housing/food/clothing/medical care.

[–]wateristasty 35 points36 points ago

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Haliburton's stock price.

[–]piraterum 34 points35 points ago

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Obligatory: I can't help but think that those he loved would have been infinitely better served if he had stayed home to be with them.

[–][deleted] 433 points434 points ago

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You know what hits me hard? People dying for no fucking reason other than corporate greed.

[–]xyroclast 22 points23 points ago

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This. The majority of American/allied soldiers today are risking their lives only for their government, not their loved ones, no matter how much they wish that weren't the case.

[–]tehsage 113 points114 points ago

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Government greed, mostly.

[–]new_math 164 points165 points ago

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same thing.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points ago

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Exactly. The military-industrial complex.

[–]XcuseM3 9 points10 points ago

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That, ladies and gentlemen, is the sad truth.

[–][deleted] 61 points62 points ago

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I really wish I could see the world in such black and white.

[–]strapt313 69 points70 points ago

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I really wish someone could give me even ONE good answer as to what in the fuck we are still doing over there.

[–]jonnie5 36 points37 points ago

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Women can vote, and go to school. Urban areas have grown. Kabul went from around 300,000 before the invasion to over 3 mil now.

Take what you will from that. I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I feel it's important to know what positive change the coalition occupation has achieved.

[–]Csusmhistory 12 points13 points ago

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Medical schools are back up, we are training their doctors, we treat hundreds of their poor, sick and crippled every month (Wednesday = general surgery day and Thursday is ortho day) at Balad Air Base alone...its not all shitty.

The unfortunate part is some parents are actually hacking the limbs off of their children so we can provide them treatment (along with that comes food/shelter/etc for a week or so).

[–]Fa1nT 14 points15 points ago

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That's not our responsibility.

[–]guynumberthree 13 points14 points ago

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If not us, then who? Do you honestly believe that regimes like the Taliban should be allowed to stand indefinitely? Don't get me wrong, I know that the Taliban is, by-and-large, our fault to begin with, and that quite often the US is driven by less-than-pure (to put it mildly) motives when we intervene, but I don't think condemning the very concept of intervention is the answer.

Seriously, I'm very, very liberal but I find the "we shouldn't be the world's policeman" and "take care of Americans first" etc... arguments extremely unpersuasive.

[–]wshs 12 points13 points ago

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If we are going to be the world's policemen, we should do it to those who need help most, and do it right. The people of North Korea are starving, thanks to government genocide, and we haven't done shit to help them. Providing food is a bandaid on a broken arm. Then there's the Taliban. We created them. We trained them. We financed them. If we stopped doing shit like that, perhaps we'd have fewer enemies, and countries around the world would have more freedom.

[–]whatevers_clever 10 points11 points ago

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because they have/are working on nuclear technology and constantly threaten south korea. Different situation.

[–]drock66 5 points6 points ago

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Not to mention iirc it has the largest build-up of military personal on the earth.

[–]unheimlich 1 point2 points ago

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I seem to recall another nation said to possess WMDs and partial to threats.

[–]mainsworth 1 point2 points ago

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North Korea

You realize there is a very big and powerful country who we have contentious ties with that claims N. Korea in it's sphere of influence, right?

[–]r4nge 1 point2 points ago

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a million dead. gg.

[–]secretvictory 1 point2 points ago

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If not us, then who?

America has its own Martin Luther king Jr and Elizabeth cady stanton. According to your philosophy, America should have been invaded and forced to act nice by Poland because they had women's suffrage before we did. Also, by your logic, we need to unilaterally invade, pretty much, every country in the world that doesn't treat women exactly the way we do. Finally, I have never heard g.w. bush use feminist rhetoric as a reasoning behind the invasion... So there's that.

[–]fuckyoubarry 4 points5 points ago

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Hmm, well it was in Afghanistan. Corporate greed and revenge then.

[–]jackskidney 26 points27 points ago

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What I find truly tragic is that soldiers are amazing people who are willing to undergo extreme hardships and stress for what they (generally/often) believe is a worthy cause. Unfortunately they are abused and misused by their superiors, governments, and politicians and end up fighting for nothing in impulsive wars that possibly cause more harm than good.

I have an immense amount of respect for soldiers, but I feel many lack the opportunity or provocation (or other options from joining the military) to think critically about the military prior to signing up . I often think about how much time and effort I put in to researching and choosing a career, then I wonder how many soldiers thought and researched the military to the same degree before joining.

One of the main reasons serving was never a real option in my mind is because I do not trust anyone to make such large decisions for me.

Again, I respect those who serve and have served very much. I do however wish that reasonable criticism of the U.S. military was not an issue heaped in rhetoric or ideology (on both sides).

TLDR: Soldiers are heroic and admirable. Sadly, I feel the trust most of them place in their (and our) leaders is horrifically abused. War is a means to an end, and that end rarely has the foot soldier in mind.

[–]radredditor 1 point2 points ago

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This is in serious need of a Metal Gear Solid 4 reference

Edit: or MGS3. Not really worthy of an edit, but I enjoy wasting your alls time. See that? You're my bitch.

[–]ManicParroT 3 points4 points ago

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Well Americans let it happen. Politicians didn't appear out of nowhere - they get voted for by Americans, and raise money from Americans, and in fact, they are Americans (except for 0bama amirite?), so it's a bit much for Americans to complain that the government they voted for is doing what they said they'd do when they campaigned.

PS: Voting for defence spending is voting for war. When a hammer is your biggest tool, every problem looks like a nail.

[–]vedran_ 1 point2 points ago

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Amen.

[–]g1bb0n 33 points34 points ago

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He had good intentions maybe, but he was used to do bad things by bad people.

[–]gives_you_cookies 10 points11 points ago

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and he did it willingly, which i think people are forgetting.

[–]StabbedAt711 1 point2 points ago

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Tell me these bad things I did on deployment. I can't think of anything but surely you seem to know all about what my fellow serviceman and myself did. So would you please enlighten me?

[–]iamtechnicolor 4 points5 points ago

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This picture makes me want to be a better person...

[–]TheGreatPastaWars 127 points128 points ago

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I once let my friend eat the last slice of pizza.

[–]SoBraveTearsToMyEyes 12 points13 points ago

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ಥ_ಥ

[–]Electro_Syphilis 43 points44 points ago

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You're the true hero here. Sheds tear

[–]toinfinitiandbeyond 5 points6 points ago

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There is no cure for Electro_Syphilis it is best just to ride it out. Just pee and enjoy the burn...

[–]ribald86 1 point2 points ago

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True American story of bravery.

[–]allysonwonderland 23 points24 points ago

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so brave

[–]potato11teen 2 points3 points ago

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His friend could have starved without it. What a good guy.

[–]SexDrugsRock 20 points21 points ago

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THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!

[–]pismosi 8 points9 points ago

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We all made sacrifices during the pasta wars...

[–]249ba36000029bbe9749 1 point2 points ago

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Wait...pizza isn't pasta.

[–]FlockaFlameSmurf 12 points13 points ago

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I hate the hivemind so much...

[–]revolting_blob 45 points46 points ago

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... until you realize that his sacrifice has very little to do with those he loves

[–]iorgfeflkd 80 points81 points ago

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Huh? The war has been going on long enough that people who sign up for it know what it's about, and that it's not about protecting their country.

[–]Greglast 3 points4 points ago

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The first thing thought was "I wonder if this is really an Indecision tattoo?".

[–]BarnaBacon 1 point2 points ago

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It is. Confirmed by JB from Indecision/MPB. He has spoken with his family. I have the tattoo also. Feels bad man.

[–]Greglast 1 point2 points ago

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I can't say I haven't thought about getting it.

[–]actonesceneone 114 points115 points ago

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As someone who has been deployed, seeing this brings out an insane amount of emotion. Incredible shot!

[–]Hindu_Wardrobe 22 points23 points ago

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I'm just here to say I'm happy you're back home safely. Hate the war, respect the good soldier. Thank you.

[–]MiddleNameS 0 points1 point ago

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thank you for your service. you have more balls than I ever will for doing what you did

[–]Ocrasorm 124 points125 points ago*

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Genuine question. Am Irish so I don't really know. But why do you thank your soldiers for their service? We don't do it over here. I don't think they do it in the UK either. Maybe during the big wars but not now.

Is the Army not a job like any other public sector job over there. Like doctors or teachers. When you come across other public sector workers are they also thanked? I am just interested, no political motivation behind this at all.

[–]AccusationsGW 10 points11 points ago

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No one will tell you this, but opinion is deeply divided on our wars, and the value they have to us.

Those who feel they are under attack are very grateful for the protection of the armed forces.

Others know the problem of terrorism is bigger than any war can fix, examine our actions closer, and feel uneasy celebrating the casualties.

[–]logged_n_2_say 30 points31 points ago*

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a lot of it has to do with vietnam guilt. after the vietnam war some of the returning vets were treated poorly simply for their service by the typically politically active youths. ironically, many vietnam vets weren't even volunteers and were drafted into service, but that didn't disuade the sentiment.

to tell you the truth, i'm not sure how widespread the behavior actually was but whether true or not; it exists in the american consciousness.

now our entire military is a voluntary force and while it is still, "a job" it carries a lot of respect, especially with (but not limited to) right leaning conservatives.

the treatment of vietnam vets is seen as disgraceful now, and many make sure not to repeat nor to be seen as accepting of the previous behavior.

[–]Ocrasorm 10 points11 points ago

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Thank you.

It is mad. It is hard to comprehend. I imagine no matter how much public support was against the occupancy of Iraq. And say that doubled. I could not see the American people turning against the individual solders like they did with Vietnam.

[–]k1down 13 points14 points ago

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Vietnam was culture-shocking due to the stark change in war coverage and what was shown. People were not nearly as desensitized to visual depictions of violence back then and for many people seeing the horrible images on the news were incredibly shocking. It was the first time that war was depicted with any realism. Not just pictures of planes dropping bombs and marching regiments, but pictures of bloody bodies and charred death. I think that the modern appreciation for soldiers in America is due to our hindsight in our mis-step of our treatment of Vietnam vets and a more realistic knowledge of the actual hell that is war. They are willingly submitting to that so I can eat cheeseburgers and my mom can watch Dancing With the Stars.

[–]thebart 2 points3 points ago

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Also, during the american war in Vietnam, USA had free press who reported what they saw in pictures and words. The US dont have free press anymore. Today it is forbidden to show pictures of dead american soldiers. The official reason is "show respect for the families". The real reason is to avoid lack of support for the forever ongoing american wars all over the world. The US government knows that if ordinary americans can see dead american soldiers on TV every day, many of them will stop supporting wars.

[–]Heimdall2061 2 points3 points ago

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To be fair, much of that was very likely a highly visible minority. Certainly the majority of Americans never detested veterans, but a very vocal, if small, group did. A large portion of the issue is the accusations that the government effectively forgot about the veterans after they were home- an unusually large proportion of Vietnam vets ended up homeless.

[–]plagman1 15 points16 points ago

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Canadian here. We make sure to thank everybody for doing their job. Especially bus drivers.

[–]filoufil88 14 points15 points ago

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Canada here and I get thanked quite regularly when I meet people while wearing green. Probably for the same reason that I was thanking allot of soldiers before joining; because they die so others may live. How could not thank someone who risk their most precious thing?

[–]Ocrasorm 7 points8 points ago

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Yeah. I understand the thanks given. Our troops do they same in war torn nations but they are never thanked. I just don't think we see the army as helping us directly so this is why we don't thank them. If we were invaded and our army protected the people directly I am sure that might change.

[–]noogin 11 points12 points ago

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I think the most disturbing thing about American culture is the obsession with the military. I'm British, currently staying in Okinawa, Japan. There's a huge American military base here, it has it's own Radio station. The rhetoric, and frankly complete jingoistic bullshit that comes from that station is ridiculous. For a European anyway (Canada doesn't seem to have this problem either).

[–]redbosn 5 points6 points ago

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We thank soldiers and give them public lip service, so that we can underpay them for the work they do ^ ^

[–]BlandGuy 23 points24 points ago

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I thank service members because it's more than a job, more than a dangerous job, more than a poorly paid dangerous job - what draws my specific thanks is that a service member gives up civil liberties and freedoms and adopts a life that demands unusual adaptations by their family as well. They enter it having fuck-all knowledge of what they're getting into, yet very few actually bail on the job; mostly, they stand and do what they see needs doing. It's a continuing inspiration to me, and I thank them for that.

[–]iamthemeg 28 points29 points ago

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Troops are very much respected. Doctors and teachers are respected, but not thanked. The valor and courage of our troops is unparalleled and for that, we thank them.

[–]Awesome_Oil_Paint 19 points20 points ago

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[–]frigginyates 1 point2 points ago

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Its times like this I wish I had some artistic talent...

[–]joeyoungblood 6 points7 points ago

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This is PFC Kyle Hockenberry. According to news reports he lost his legs and an arm in a bomb blast.

His friends still pay tribute to his sacrifice on his facebook group page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/217687891595414/

[–]BuckeyeBentley 8 points9 points ago

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Hey, at least he has a non-rebreather on instead of a mask and someone breathing for him. So he has support of his own airway and is breathing on his own. Already a positive sign.

[–]Noino1966 9 points10 points ago

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I just get hit hard by misplaced loyalties...

[–]begui 6 points7 points ago

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What was the reason for being in Afghanistan again?

[–]mobastar 13 points14 points ago

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Too bad he sacrificed himself for big money interest and not actual freedom. I fucking hate our government, a big reason I got out was because I wasn't willing to die for billionaire fuckholes.

[–]Storming 51 points52 points ago

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Another jingoist circlejerk, nothing to see here folks.

[–]Cyralea 5 points6 points ago

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Us non-Americans are particularly non-plussed.

[–]Pteryx 14 points15 points ago

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The circlejerk is pretty equal parts pro and anti, I think.

[–]forthewar 5 points6 points ago

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So it's not a circlejerk at all then.

[–]weiss5256 9 points10 points ago

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It's two simultaneous circle jerks.

[–]Andynym 1 point2 points ago

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Figure eight jerk

[–]StarTrekMike 3 points4 points ago

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How?

[–]MrFacetious 2 points3 points ago

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Is there really any weight to the "It's just rich people wanting oil" defense? Seriously, I'm curious... source please?

[–]EsslingenAmNeckar 2 points3 points ago

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I didn't expect all these anti-militarism comments (not that I'm against them).

[–]headbanger141 2 points3 points ago

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oh, good...a pissing contest between two groups of people who can't throw a punch. I'm so proud of Reddit right now.

[–]ropers 12 points13 points ago

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Yeah, yeah, y'all go ahead and circlejerk your militarist patriotism boners over this – but of course when young shaheeds who defend their homelands from the actions you take and sponsor exhibit the exact same attitude, it's suddenly a bad thing...

[–]wateristasty 22 points23 points ago

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Terrible that our country throws these young men's lives away.

[–]Animal_King 18 points19 points ago

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What are you talking about? Last I checked all these soldiers volunteered to go to through this shit. The only person that threw their lives away were themselves.

[–]LORDJEW_VAN_CUNTFUCK 54 points55 points ago

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Am I the only one that doesn't feel anything looking a this?

[–]Mitchellonfire 47 points48 points ago

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Does eye rolling count as a feeling?

[–]thomassive 9 points10 points ago

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i as well feel nothing. all i feel i that he brought that upon himself and i wish him all the luck

[–]Letsgomine 17 points18 points ago

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Wouldn't expect you to Mr. Van Cuntfuck.

[–]MostlySentient 9 points10 points ago

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Would that be Lord Van Cuntfuck, or is Lordjew his first name?

[–]Letsgomine 7 points8 points ago

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These are the questions that keep me up at night.

[–]LORDJEW_VAN_CUNTFUCK 3 points4 points ago

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Me too.

[–]serpix 1 point2 points ago

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Whatever the reasons for his situation, you could feel compassion for a fellow human being in pain.

[–]SaltFrog 9 points10 points ago

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:( I feel for this man. But he is hurt for nothing. This war isn't his to fight. v___v

Please bring home the troops.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points ago

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For those I love, I will secure petroleum assets in the Middle East.

[–]hanksredditname 18 points19 points ago*

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Hate to break it to you but nearly all of the oil contracts that came available in the Middle East over the last 10 years were won by Chinese oil firms. The US companies (like Haliburton for example) are making big money through rebuilding the infrastructure we demolished though.

Edit: Non-US oil companies

[–]TheGOPkilledJesus 1 point2 points ago

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100% wrong. Unless Shell, BP, Exxon, Occidental, etc. are Chinese

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2011/12/28/20111228132834721734_20.png

[–]joeyoungblood 7 points8 points ago

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This occurred in Afghanistan, they have no oil.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points ago

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Yeah man there is so much oil to secure in Afghanistan, which is where he is fighting!

I can't tell if people like you think you are smart and railing against the system with your counterculture, or you just parrot shit you hear.

[–]BufferUnderpants 26 points27 points ago

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There isn't much oil to be found there yet, but there will be a lot passing through this pipeline.

[–]drugaddledfiend 7 points8 points ago

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Yeah we're fighting the terrorists! Right? Right!?

[–]hexhead 12 points13 points ago

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'In September 1978, the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued its “Review of U.S. Strategy Related to the Middle East and the Persian Gulf,” in which it named ensuring “continuous access to petroleum resources” as the primary U.S. priority in the region, along with ensuring the survival of Israel.'

'National Security Directive (NSD)–26, issued by President George H. W. Bush on October 2, 1989, stated, Access to Persian Gulf oil and the security of key friendly states in the area are vital to U.S. national security. The United States remains committed to defend its vital interests in the region, if necessary and appropriate through the use of U.S. military force, against the Soviet Union or any other regional power with interests inimical to our own.'

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2009/RAND_MG838.pdf

[–]needed_to_vote 10 points11 points ago

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because afghanistan is on the persian gulf, and it's 1989?

[–]Wooknows 1 point2 points ago

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and keep the military–industrial complex busy

[–]gojirra 6 points7 points ago

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I'm sure that's exactly why he signed up...

[–]fermented-fetus 2 points3 points ago

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You do realize that the Taliban were/are responsible for countless crimes against humanity, especially when they were in power. Maybe there are people in this world that are willing to fight for the idea that is America, and not sit back and let oppression rule. Just because the people who are suffering are not American makes it no less worthy a cause.

And that is leaving out the fact that the people we are fighting allowed a safe zone for the people who attacked us. Allowing the Taliban to regain power would be setting us back 15 years in fighting terrorism.

[–]megrussell 1 point2 points ago

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Let's not kid ourselves, the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan was not a humanitarian intervention. It was an underplanned and poorly executed prelude to the invasion of Iraq, one of the main goals of the neocons in office at the time. If "fighting terrorism" had been the main goal, then a military intervention like the one that eventually killed bin Laden in Pakistan could have been staged in Afghanistan - but neither deposing of bin Laden nor humanitarian intervention was the main goal of the invasion.

[–]TableManner 19 points20 points ago

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No it doesn't.

[–]concretebox 57 points58 points ago

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Stop it. Dying doesn't make you a hero. Joining the army doesn't make you a hero. Stop worshiping soldiers, start thinking.

[–]AirborneAmbition 40 points41 points ago

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I'm an American military member because I believe in the constitution and the American people. I believe that some things are worth being ready to protect, regardless of whatever miserable fuck currently holds public office. Less than 40% of the population turned out to vote in federal elections in 2010. That means that only about 21% of the country has to be complete fucking lunatics for my friends and I to get sent to war. But you know what? We go and we go happily. Because the constitution says we go. We go because we believe in the 79% of the country who are good, decent, same people. We go because those people may need to have might behind their diplomacy so that they can get good and decent things done in the world.

Remember that the soldier joins to stand up for you (the people), but by the nature of any military, orders have to come from one place. Your job is to make sure the person giving the orders is on your side. So get the fuck out and vote. And get everyone you know to get the fuck out and vote.

In the meantime we'll keep serving, fighting, and dying for you. Even though you (the people) haven't had the common fucking courtesy to hire us some decent bosses.

[–]Laidbackstog 5 points6 points ago

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Thank you

[–]themightybaron 12 points13 points ago

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Just too damn bad he lost it fighting for nothing. Not his fault at all, but absolutely our fault.

[–]jskeetjr 22 points23 points ago

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It's his fault too.

[–]DesertOTReal 9 points10 points ago

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Yeah, he was stupid enough to sign up. I feel bad for him and all, that sucks. But yeah, definitely mostly his fault for signing up.

[–]Hindu_Wardrobe 6 points7 points ago

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Fuck war.

So happy my loved one came back safely. Fuck everything about war.

[–]OmNamahShivaya 31 points32 points ago

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I really don't give a shit about soldiers anymore. I mean, as human beings, I respect them. I don't want any harm to come to them. But I don't get emotional when I see a dead soldier. It's a soldier. Their job is to die for politicians. Not for their family (even though that's what they think they're doing), but for political and corporate gains. At least in the Iraq/Afghanistan/soon to be Iran wars.

This image does not hit me hard. Call me heartless, call me an asshole, call me whatever you want. I don't give a fuck about a soldier dying in a pointless war that is draining all of our tax dollars, making more enemies along the way, and making Americans look even more foolish and arrogant than we already were. The only thing that "hits me hard" is the fact that this soldier died for NOTHING of value. He put his life on the line because he wanted to protect his country or his family (or both), but that's not what these wars are about. It's about protecting corporate and political interests.

So mourn all you want over his "bravery".

[–]grisioco 4 points5 points ago*

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can you still not mourn the life given in futility? that someone who thought they were giving themselves for their friends and family, was, in reality, serving a less noble cause? and does that not make is death more tragic, as it was in vain?

[–]OmNamahShivaya 16 points17 points ago

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Yeah, I guess. But did he not choose to fight? Was it not his own choice to put himself in a situation that he knew very well he might die at any moment?

And why mourn over death in the first place? Everyone dies. This man probably died with honor (in his view). Why mourn? The only thing I feel is frustration. Frustration because our soldiers don't have the balls (even though they love to boast how manly and brave they are) or the intelligence to figure out that the wars are bullshit and refuse to fight in them.

[–]grisioco 6 points7 points ago

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to be fair, ron paul recieves more campaign contributions from soldiers than anyone else, and his stance on the war and our military is very well known.

[–]OmNamahShivaya 7 points8 points ago

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This is true. I don't see why soldiers simply refuse to fight, though. If they know the wars are bullshit and are only hurting our country, why continue to participate and contribute to the suffering?

[–]grisioco 1 point2 points ago

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because its a paycheck, or because the fear of reprisal is strong, i assume

[–]OmNamahShivaya 1 point2 points ago

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because its a paycheck

Well, if we assume that a soldier knows what he's doing is wrong, but still does it just so he can earn a paycheck....well that's fucked up. Especially on the magnitude of what's happening.

but like you said:

or because the fear of reprisal is strong, i assume

do you happen to know what would happen to a soldier if they decided to just leave the military? if one day they were just like "fuck this shit" and left (not go AWOL, I mean do it in a way where you let your superiors know that you are leaving and no longer want to serve in the military.).

I would imagine it would not be easy (from a legal stand-point) and you would probably be hated by your fellow soldiers.

[–]malcolmreynolds1989 6 points7 points ago

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This picture could be an amazing ad for WelchAllyn. Many thanks to those in the Armed Forces!

[–]evilpenguins 3 points4 points ago

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Is it sad that Welch Allyn was the first thing I noticed thanks to waitressing in their event center in high school? And that it made me happy before it dawned on me what the rest of the picture is?

[–]bigmad50 10 points11 points ago

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Why is he sacrificing??? What country puts us in any danger? Seriously, has there been any threat to the United States since the Cold War? I respect our troops (lord knows I don't want to do it!), but I don't understand the notion that they are keeping us safe from anything. They are doing the governments bidding and too many of them are losing their lives to do it. Bring the troops home and put these brave men to work doing something that actually helps the people of the United States!

[–]RtasVadum 3 points4 points ago

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Canadian here, it's not uncommon for a civvy to see someone in uniform, and pay for their coffee/doughnut/whatever at Tim Hortons. Just a small way to show that we respect them for what they're willing to do for their country.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Really awesome pic. Too bad it turned into an anti war /r/circlejerk

[–]HashRunningRapist 3 points4 points ago

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Came here to see if Reddit would belittle and insult someone for losing his limbs thousands of miles from his family. Satisfied. Seriously, I understand the anti-war sentiment, after serving in Afghanistan I'm 100% behind an immediate withdraw, but insulting one of my brothers for losing hos limbs is distasteful, disgusting, and frankly, below you Reddit.

[–]twilightpanda 4 points5 points ago

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I can't express this enough; Ask any soldier or marine who's seen combat. Most of them don't fight for a cause of a purpose, but they fight and die for the men watching his back.

A brotherhood baptized by the fire of combat you will find no stronger. It's very likely that the "ones I love" refer not to his loved ones at home, but the men fighting along side him.

[–]jasno 9 points10 points ago

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Lets be honest, do most people join the military to sacrifice for those they love? Do they join for a decent wage? Do they join to protect their hometown from terrorist threats? Do they join to liberate the world and bring freedom to the oppressed? Do they risk their lives and kill for some America that doesnt even exist?

I used to look up to military people. I actually would thank them for their service, until I started thinking about why these people join in, and what exactly they do.

Are soldiers too stupid to question the people sending them off to kill or be killed? Do the soldiers even care if the wars they fight are ethically right or wrong? Or do they just want a paycheck and food in their kids bellies?

It may be hard to generalize about all of them, but lets just say I dont thank American soldiers anymore.

[–]yangl123 1 point2 points ago

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I feel a bit guilty for assuming this was a Welch Allyn advert at first glance...

[–]animateclay 1 point2 points ago

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It is very sad. Unfortunately the people who profit from the wars don't care about guys like this. They recruit them, tell them they are saving us from evil and their banks balance grows. If he didn't come home like this I'm sure they'd send him to Iran next which is all based on lies like Iraq.

[–]nickles69 1 point2 points ago

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I thought this said "this picture gets you hard" then I felt like a terrible person

[–]aCRACKbaby 1 point2 points ago

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I thought it was going to be a duck with a pirate hat...

[–]erock0546 1 point2 points ago

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I am in tears. I hate war, but love those who serve. Damnit, I promised I wouldn't cry.

[–]Pantsuz 1 point2 points ago

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wow. Profound. Thank you.

[–]mmmjon 1 point2 points ago

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As someone who is in the process of joining the military (not American), this hit me hard. Real hard.

But I'd like to ask, how the fuck does someone go from joining to being deployed on a year long tour in 4 months?!?!?!

[–]brettjerk 1 point2 points ago

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This comment will get buried, but: These are lyrics to a song by Indecision. The full lyrics are "For those I love I will sacrifice, not for those I've never seen."

[–]jorgander 1 point2 points ago

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Except from All Quiet on the Western Front. Sorry for the TLDR

I can see him now, as he used to glare at us through his spectacles and say in a moving voice: "Won't you join up, Comrades?"

These teachers always carry their feelings ready in their waistcoat pockets, and trot them out by the hour. But we didn't think of that then.

There was, indeed, one of us who hesitated and did not want to fall into line. That was Joseph Behm, a plump, homely fellow. But he did allow himself to be persuaded, otherwise he would have been ostracised. And perhaps more of us thought as he did, but no one could very well stand out, because at that time even one's parents were ready with the word "coward"; no one had the vaguest idea what we were in for. The wisest were just the poor and simple people. They knew the war to be a misfortune, whereas those who were better off, and should have been able to see more clearly what the consequences would be, were beside themselves with joy.

Katczinsky said that was a result of their upbringing. It made them stupid. And what Kat said, he had thought about.

Strange to say, Behm was one of the first to fall. He got hit in the eye during an attack, and we left him lying for dead. We couldn't bring him with us, because we had to come back helter-skelter. In the afternoon suddenly we heard him call, and saw him crawling about in No Man's Land. He had only been knocked unconscious. Because he could not see, and was mad with pain, he failed to keep under cover, and so was shot down before anyone could go and fetch him in.

Naturally we couldn't blame Kantorek for this. Where would the world be if one brought every man to book? There were thousands of Kantoreks, all of whom were convinced that they were acting for the best--in a way that cost them nothing.

And that is why they let us down so badly.

For us lads of eighteen they ought to have been mediators and guides to the world of maturity, the world of work, of duty, of culture, of progress--to the future. We often made fun of them and played jokes on them, but in our hearts we trusted them. The idea of authority, which they represented, was associated in our minds with a greater insight and a more humane wisdom. But the first death we saw shattered this belief. We had to recognise that our generation was more to be trusted than theirs.

They surpassed us only in phrases and in cleverness. The first bombardment showed us our mistake, and under it the world as they had taught it to us broke in pieces.

While they continued to write and talk, we saw the wounded and dying. While they taught that duty to one's country is the greatest thing, we already knew that death-throes are stronger. But for all that we were no mutineers, no deserters, no cowards--they were very free with all these expressions. We loved our country as much as they; we went courageously into every action; but also we distinguished the false from true, we had suddenly learned to see. And we saw that there was nothing of their world left. We were all at once terribly alone; and alone we must see it through.

[–]venividivixi 1 point2 points ago

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I fully believe that this man believes he is fighting for your freedoms.

[–]Mitchellonfire 8 points9 points ago

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It does not.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]mrRabblerouser 7 points8 points ago

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the tattoo should read "for corporate greed, I will kill innocent people"

[–]Phantomass 18 points19 points ago

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Who else here now feels like a total pussy?

[–]devilsadvocado 9 points10 points ago*

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I'm down for a total pussy.

[–]takowolf 1 point2 points ago

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I'll take half now and the rest in a doggy bag for later tonight.

[–]smoochy2012 3 points4 points ago

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Support the troops by not supporting war.

[–]serrit 4 points5 points ago

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It really doesn't.

[–]DrunkmanDoodoo 5 points6 points ago

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If you don't want to get your limbs blown off then don't join the military. How fucking hard is that to understand?

[–]silencer1581 1 point2 points ago

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It's not about the fact he wasn't willing to do this. How hard is that to fucking understand?

[–]Evanderson 3 points4 points ago

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Too bad all his sacrificing is for a barrel of oil.

[–]BrainInAJar 6 points7 points ago

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He loves oil barons?

[–]Gnarwhalrus 1 point2 points ago

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[–]grepe 1 point2 points ago

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right, he loves gun makers and silly politicians

[–]punkdigerati 1 point2 points ago

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As a masochist I feel let down by the title