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all 74 comments

[–]hiccupstix 28 points29 points ago

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My mother was in the foster care system from her early adolescence through her late teen years. She really benefited from having stable heterosexual couples comprised of one man and one woman to neglect her in favor of their biological children, before shoveling her off to the next foster family. I mean, shit, she's now 53 and utterly incapable of establishing meaningful relationships with other human beings, but at least she wasn't exposed to any "non-traditional" foster parents. Thank god!

[–]Randyh524 6 points7 points ago

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Yup you have god to thank for that one.

[–][deleted] ago*

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[deleted]

[–]sciacl 5 points6 points ago

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When has the stereotype that "heterosexual couples that adopt are all horrible and gay couples that want to adopt are all upstanding citizens with incredible moral character" ever existed???

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]curr 1 point2 points ago

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The reason why negligent heterosexual couples are used to promote gay adoption rights is not to say that gays would be better parents than straight people. It is to show that it is not necessarily beneficial to have a male and female parent.

One of the major arguments against gay adoption is that a child needs a traditional father and mother in order to become a functioning member of society. To combat that argument, people can use examples of traditional parents failing, while further providing evidence of gay parents succeeding.

Trying to argue that "straight adoptive parents are bad" is a prevailing stereotype in society is just asinine.

/edit to add in "are bad" after "straight adoptive parents" because it didn't make sense otherwise.

[–]basmith7 2 points3 points ago

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Is it helpful to criticize this persons story about their mother?

[–]hiccupstix 0 points1 point ago

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Perhaps I should be thankful the poster to whom you're replying deleted their comments before I had the opportunity to read them.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]basmith7 0 points1 point ago

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He only stated facts.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]salavis 1 point2 points ago

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His story was to simply show that even heterosexual parents can be bad, I don't see where you are making the "he says all hetero parents are bad!" conclusion from?

[–]Italian_Barrel_Roll 1 point2 points ago

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I kinda wish I could have seen both sides of this conversation. Reading this is like hearing someone on a bus yell at a wingnut over the phone.

[–]LocalMadman 1 point2 points ago

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Reading this is like hearing someone on a bus yell at a wingnut over the phone.

Good description for this kind of thing. I will now steal it.

[–]zapakh 0 points1 point ago

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Probably not. Luckily, no one is doing that.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]zapakh 1 point2 points ago

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That is not a reason for why gay parents should be able to adopt kids. It is a refutation of a common argument for why gay parents shouldn't be able to adopt kids. A fine distinction, but important. Sorry just deal with it.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]zapakh 0 points1 point ago

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I yield to your superior bold text.

[–]placey07 9 points10 points ago

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This is my biggest problem with the marriage/adoption laws. In the case where kids don't have parents or a designated guardian, it's unconscionable to suggest that kids would be better off spending their childhood bouncing between different households, rather than being adopted by a gay couple. Not to disparage good foster parents by any means, or suggest that there are no bad gay parents. Point really is that there are good and bad parents who are both gay or straight (and atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, etc...). Sexual orientation doesn't make the difference between good or bad parents, nor does religion.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points ago

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African-American kids were bullied when schools integrated, should they have been kept separate for their well-being as well?

Denying people equal rights just because other people are uncomfortable with them is ridiculous.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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I'm saying that children should be able to choose which parents they accept so they aren't forced into a family where their societal interactions are filled with ridicules and insults.

That is so fucked up. No one gets to choose their parents, why should adopted kids? Kids still get mocked for being mixed race, for being poor, and for having disabled/mentally disabled parents as well; should bi-racial, poor, or disabled couples not have families too, just in case someone mocks their kids down the road? Saying kids should wait around in the foster care system until they can choose if gay parents are 'worth the mocking' is basically the same as not letting them get adopted at all.

Also way to assume I downvoted you, Mr. Gets-Mad-About-People-Making-Assumptions.

[–]Murrabbit 2 points3 points ago

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The proper response to negative consequence resulting from stigmatization of homosexuals is not to perpetuate stigmatization of homosexuals.

[–]placey07 1 point2 points ago

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Ridicule is worth taking into account because it means that we should act sooner. While some kids may bully them (probably because they were indoctrinated by their parents), others may realize that it's not all that different to have two moms or two dads. Eventually, it will become a part of the norm. Granted, there are still racists out there, but they are no longer the majority. They're a fringe group and looked down upon by the rest of society, and someday the remaining anti-gay bigots will be in a similar position.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]placey07 0 points1 point ago

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It's a tough issue. I agree that it's unfair for children to suffer. I was bullied pretty consistently in 5th-8th grades and it sucks. Consider though, whether the kid is going to suffer more being adopted by a gay couple versus not being adopted. As for whether they want it, I don't think that you can really give babies a choice in the issue, and chances are that when they're older they aren't going to reject their parents purely because they're gay. In the meantime, we can also work to decrease ridicule as much as possible. Mandate universal teaching about homosexuality in health classes (I think the lack of nationwide educational standards in general is also a problem), create stricter rules against bullying and improve efforts to enforce them. It's not going to stop all ridicule, but it starts on a path towards equality and tolerance.

Can you imagine in this day and age if the religious right argued against letting black parents adopt white kids, or against protecting black kids from racially motivated bullying in schools? Eventually, the issue of gay parents adopting won't be a big deal, but it takes action now to get there.

[–]turikk 4 points5 points ago

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If by most states, you mean 6.

Source: Human Rights Campaign, as of April 12th, 2011 - http://www.hrc.org/files/assets/resources/parenting_laws_maps.pdf

[–]CranialEruption 10 points11 points ago

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I have good friends that are foster parents, and my wife and I were getting ready to do it before she got pregnant. The main goal of the foster system is not adoption, it's reuniting the child with their parents. It puts the child in a good home until the parents have cleaned up their act, then they can get their child back. Failing that, then the child is able to be adopted. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that loving LGBT couples should have as much a chance to adopt a child as my wife and I do, but the foster system doesn't have as much to do with that as you'd think.

[–]kalliopehm 5 points6 points ago

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A good amount of foster systems don't allow gays to foster children, either, even if they will be reunited with their parents.

[–]CranialEruption 6 points7 points ago

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This is true, and it's unconscionable. Unfortunately, I live in Utah, so the odds of getting the laws changed anytime soon are about the same as the chances of god appearing while I eat breakfast tomorrow and revealing to me the previously unknown secrets of how to not collapse a souffle.

[–]kalliopehm 7 points8 points ago

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I'm not god (obviously) but a little milk into the yolk-mixture, whip the egg whites until they're as hard as you can get them, fold, don't stir, no longer than 13 minutes for small ones, 19 for large ones, make sure your oven is the exact right temperature, and pray (or not...).

[–]bamfsalad 3 points4 points ago

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You could be a god... A god of souffles.

[–]kalliopehm 1 point2 points ago

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...I think I need to get that on a business card.

[–]kissfan7 4 points5 points ago*

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Adoption by gay couples is banned in five states, not "most states". Nineteen states and DC allow adoption. The other states either allow it for step-kids only or they do not have laws on the books.

This country ain't perfect, but please do your research before pointing out its flaws. My boyfriend and I are trying to adopt and you're not helping our cause.

[–]ProfessorD2 1 point2 points ago

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FYI

Foster care <> Up for adoption

Foster kids are in abundance. Kids for adoption are in demand.

[–]TheGrantParker 1 point2 points ago

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All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

[–]Jeffuary 0 points1 point ago

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You see, if we let Gay People marry, we'll be turning orphanages and foster homes into a Butt-Sex Blockbuster for the gays. They'll check out the new releases, and return them without rewinding.

[–]AlexOnV1nyl 0 points1 point ago

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Shouldn't this be posted in politics?

[–]Pierre77 0 points1 point ago

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False, only banned. In 3 states...

[–]mrgoldbe 0 points1 point ago

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Just as an aside, gay adoption actually isn't explicitly banned in most states. I think only two or three. The issue is that unmarried couples are kept from adopting in some states, which makes adoption hard for gay couples since they cannot be legally married.

[–]Miora 0 points1 point ago*

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-Sigh- I hate foster care....No one loves you when your an older child...well except for this really nice couple who actually qualified but, where turned down because they where gay....On the bright side my brother and sister where adopted by our foster family though they already have 4 kids of their own...and they also take care of the husbands sisters kids on occasion who is also a single mother with 4 children....

At least there together.....sigh

[–]Murrabbit 0 points1 point ago*

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Is this claim true? Is it illegal in most states for Homosexual couples to adopt?

I know it must certainly be more difficult, especially because in most states they can not marry, and that counts against them, and then there's the fact that many orphanages are run either by religious organizations or religious people who might disqualify them either as a matter of policy or on the sly due to personal bigotry, but I was under the impression that only one or two states in the south actually had laws on the book banning homosexual couples from adoption.

Does anyone have a source for this information? Maybe we can get a map that shows the legal status of homosexual couples adopting children state by state?

EDIT: Ok so I did the obvious thing and looked it up on Wikipedia. According to the graphic there, adoption by same sex couples isn't outright illegal except for Five states (Utah, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Mississippi), which is fewer states than those where it is expressly legal. In most other states the issue is unsettled law, it would seem. So it's not technically true that adoption by same-sex couples is illegal in most states.

[–]birdmankustomz 0 points1 point ago

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Mississippi is the retarded cousin of America.

[–]Murrabbit 0 points1 point ago

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I think America has a lot of those, actually.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Don't put the scumbag cap on Washington! We like gay people!

[–]morellox 0 points1 point ago

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blame Santorum

[–]JustSmall 0 points1 point ago

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Scumbag thatsprobablytaken

Jokes about USA
Forgets Hawaii and Alaska

[–]barpredator 0 points1 point ago

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Don't you get it? Corporations are people, but gays are not people.

/s

[–]Italian_Barrel_Roll 0 points1 point ago

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Why is that a problem? Everyone knows children in America lose all their special rights and protections the second they leave the womb.

American fetuses: Full of potential.

American babies: Full of disappointment.

[–]unicorndisbelief 0 points1 point ago

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*hundreds of thousands

[–]LocalMadman 0 points1 point ago

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Inexcusable.

[–]edcellwarrior -1 points0 points ago

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I am good friends with these two gay guys who adopted two different retarded (<------ Or is it "Mentally Chalenged" now?) kids. Do you have any idea how much money that saves the government a year?

[–]MackLuster77 1 point2 points ago

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Are you really pretending that you don't know it's "mentally challenged?"

[–]AegisZephyr 1 point2 points ago

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I think the new clinical term is now developmentally disabled.

[–]edcellwarrior 0 points1 point ago

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No, I'm not "pretending". I wasn't sure.

[–]wronghead 0 points1 point ago

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To be fair, allowing gay couples to adopt won't do much to help foster children. I was adopted at birth. For newborns, the waiting list to adopt can be years long. Homosexual people and heterosexual people are all just people. Most people don't want older children for a variety of reasons. They would rather stand in line for a brand spanking new baby rather than risking getting saddled with "damaged goods."

This, of course, has nothing to do with whether or not gay couples should be able to adopt. Of course they should. This, however, is just not a compelling reason because it's not true that by allowing gay folks to adopt we'd make any kind of noticeable improvement in the foster care system.

[–]GAMEchief 0 points1 point ago

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Thousands of kids in foster care.

Still trying to outlaw abortion.

[–]Raxle 0 points1 point ago

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Thousands of hobos.

Still can't stab them legally.

Government, amiright?

[–]Foley1 0 points1 point ago

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I quite like America, fuckin' hate Amurrica though.

[–]MackLuster77 -3 points-2 points ago

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Scumbag Redditor, thinks this is /r/lgbt or r/gaytheism.

[–]seiyonoryuu 3 points4 points ago

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you see, the reason r/atheism is friends with r/lgbt is because lgbt rights are only, and i mean only an issue at all because of religion. this is, so to speak, the perfect example, the paradigm, if you will, of religion sticking its nose where it doesnt belong and ruining people's lives. this is the kind of nonsensical, illogical, completely irrelevent yet totally devestating sort of thing that really gets under r/atheism's skin. modern civil rights- it's what we're here for

it has everything to do with religion, and thus we are involved

[–]Toiletslave 1 point2 points ago

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Scumbag Redditor, you are a flaming faggot.

[–]MackLuster77 0 points1 point ago

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What kind of a way is that to talk to somebody, Toiletslave?

[–]Toiletslave 0 points1 point ago

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That's how you talk to people on the internet you fat bitch.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]MackLuster77 1 point2 points ago

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It's okay. You're not really a scumbag. There has just been a recent influx of LGBT posts here. The vast majority of us are in support of the ideas, but there are better places for them. Try r/gaytheism; it's brand new!

[–]PullOutBoy -1 points0 points ago

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I heard the opposite that there is a waiting list for children to be adopted??!?

is there a source you guys can pull up that says that are too many kids who have no parents or a citation that says "there aren't enough kids to be adopted"

??

[–]TheDistantPanic 5 points6 points ago

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Yes, there's a well known "baby shortage" when it comes to adoption. Foster care is a totally different thing and I wish people would stop confusing the two.

[–]bambam93 0 points1 point ago

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In the popular lexicon they are used interchangeably, as far as I can tell. Doesn't mean its right. Thanks for clearing it up for me at least.

[–]Namiriel 2 points3 points ago

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Actually, both statements are true.

423,000 kids in foster care as of 2009 (most recent data). http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/foster.pdf#page=1

"In general, waiting periods for a fixed list and a pooling program can vary from about 4-6 months up to several years." http://www.adoptionservices.org/adoption/adoption_waiting_period.htm

Note: while there are 400K kids in foster care, they are counting children and teens. Most people only want to adopt newborn babies, right after they are born. There is a first-come first-serve list for getting fresh babies to adopt. On the other hand, kids whose parents are dead, in jail, or otherwise unfit get stuck in group homes, and go a long time before they can be placed with foster parents.

[–]spaceboundmonkeys -1 points0 points ago

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Wow thank you so much for making this connection so easily visible to me, fucking politicians...

[–]cvillamizar -1 points0 points ago

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Please stop posting political issues that do not involve atheism in this subreddit. It is not the right place for it.

[–]samesies -1 points0 points ago

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Its a perfect solution! Give 'em to the gays! Is the government blind?!

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]TH0UGHTP0LICE 3 points4 points ago

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God_ Salvation redditor for 23 hours, total # of posts 25. Every post = "Reported for misleading misguided teenagers. This offensive content should be a witness to how retarded r/atheists are. God Bless You All."

Come on dude, you could at least put some effort into it. Trolling is a art

[–]yotta 0 points1 point ago

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OTOH, Poe's law.