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[–]hksteve 139 points140 points ago

I volunteer every weekend with a christian organization helping refugees learn English. About 5 weeks in, a man started a discussion about interacting with other religions. All the volunteers and most of the students stated their 'belief' status. ALL of the volunteers in the room were atheist. Felt good.

[–]FreeThinker76 35 points36 points ago

If this is true I am overwhelmed with joy!

Where is this?

[–]hksteve 30 points31 points ago

Hong Kong

[–]MegatronRx 20 points21 points ago

Hence the name Hong Kong Steve. It all makes sense now!!

[–]hksteve 74 points75 points ago

You know too much, time to die.

[–]MoonshineDan 4 points5 points ago

I tagged it yellow.

[–]killerMinnow 4 points5 points ago

I thought it was Heckler and Koch Steve.

[–]seeBurtrun 1 point2 points ago

Just so I am understanding it correctly, this was a christian organization, but all of the volunteers were atheist?

[–]hksteve 0 points1 point ago

Boots on the ground the day that came up, yes. Can't speak for every volunteer affiliated. I've met some of the higher ups, they don't 'scream' christian, but I'm not going to speculate on them.

[–]gg4465a 17 points18 points ago*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

First paragraph mentions Operation Blessing International Relief and Development Corporation, which Robertson started and which donates over $200 million annually (a lot of which goes to CBN but a lot goes to real humanitarian causes too.)

Y'all are killing me lately. So many posts on r/atheism have clearly not been researched at all. The whole point of this is that we hold ourselves to a higher standard of belief, and yet all I see these days are hur-dur posts that can be debunked with 30 fucking seconds of Googling. Step it up, folks.

EDIT: I dug a bit further and found that Robertson donated $36M in 2006 and $25M in 2005. The rest comes from contributions, but again, I think Robertson deserves the credit for driving many (if not most) of those donations in the first place. It doesn't make sense to say that he had nothing to do with it.

[–]robociv 2 points3 points ago

and yet this has close to 900 upvotes, the problem also lies in the uneducated general population. You're right, this is a joke

[–]cd7k 0 points1 point ago

How much has Robertson donated personally thought?

[–]gg4465a 2 points3 points ago

Immaterial. I am no Pat Robertson fan, but it's really petty to say that he doesn't get credit for the foundation he started. No one on r/atheism would ever imply that Bill Gates shouldn't get credit for the work done by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or that Warren Buffett wouldn't get credit for the Buffett Foundation. Those organizations raise money independently of the endowment they get from their namesakes but the credit goes towards the people who started them, and rightly so.

[–]cd7k 0 points1 point ago

I see your point but there's quite a difference between getting others to donate and donating yourself. That's the distinction I'm making.

[–]gg4465a 0 points1 point ago

See above. In a two year period he donated $60M to the foundation.

[–]brezzz 297 points298 points ago*

You know what I dislike most about this repost? The original campaign had a great, positive message, and then somebody tacked on a comparison to Pat Robertson to make it an "us verses them" pissing contest, completely changing the whole meaning. Now the argument goes from the influence of religion on charity to rightful accusations of cherrypicking, ones that likely would not come up had Pat been omitted. It's garbage if you ask me, nothing worth upvoting, unless you wanted to intentionally put out a bad argument.

[–]rubelmj 48 points49 points ago

Agreed, a wasted chance at fostering some common ground with theists, the majority of whom are good people, just like the majority of us.

[–]Gozerchristo 5 points6 points ago

Until it comes time to vote and their bible interpreter abuses their faith by feeding the flames of their fear.

[–]yes_thats_right 3 points4 points ago

I think you are referring to the Christians in the US which make up a bit less than 3.5% of the theist population of the world. This is not a representative sample at all.

[–]Krazinsky 0 points1 point ago

To be fair, Reddit is not a representative sample of the world. The vast majority of Redditors are from the US, so it's almost inevitable that conversations will gravitate towards the experiences of US residents.

[–]elbenji 7 points8 points ago

...as a Theist, I'd rather my leader do his job and not get into theology.

Thanks.

[–]TheLordOfTheFryer 0 points1 point ago

Agreed

[–]Good-WilledHeretic 1 point2 points ago

Elaborate.

[–]sjsmith074 17 points18 points ago

Agreed. There are good atheists and bad atheists just as there are good christians and bad christians. I think a better way to get the message across is to just focus on the good and not just find a bad christian.

[–]KodyxDestroyer 9 points10 points ago

Dang I wish there were more Atheists like you guys. I'm religious and some of my best friends are atheists. Its ridiculous that you have people from both sides making us all look like terrible people and then the good people in the groups always feel like the other side hates them.

[–]elbenji 1 point2 points ago

Pretty much this.

[–]satereader 2 points3 points ago

I produced the original ad, and I agree completely.

[–]gg4465a 1 point2 points ago

Posting this up here because my other comment is languishing in downvote oblivion and I think everyone is missing an important point here:

Not only is this post petty and vindictive, it's also factually inaccurate. Robertson's foundation, Operation Blessing International, donates over $200 million every year to humanitarian causes (a large part of which is CBN but other causes as well, including a lot of disaster relief.) Robertson himself donated $36M to the organization in 2006 and $25M in 2005.

r/atheism has been really disappointing me lately. As atheists, we often pride ourselves on requiring a higher standard for belief, yet clearly this post was not researched at all, nor were many others that have been quickly debunked by their comments sections. We should all take a little more care to fact-check before we post things just because they sound good.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

Disagreed. Whether or not an "us vs them" mentality is good or not, you have to accept that an "us vs them" actuality does exist in the hearts and minds of millions of Christians. If talking openly about this actuality is taboo, then we can never hope to defeat it (because you won't let anyone even be aware of it).

[–]Rhadamanthys 10 points11 points ago

Defeat the us vs. them mentality in Christians by fostering it in the atheist community?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

By being aware of it and aware of what it can allow (Pat Rabinson is something that Christian exceptionalism has allowed to exist, in this case).

[–]Rhadamanthys 1 point2 points ago

How does this increase awareness of an us vs. them mentality in Christians when it is clearly an example of an us vs. them mentality in atheists?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

It's clearly an example of Christian exceptionalism. Pat would never get away with what he did if he were in charge of a normal charity.

[–]Rhadamanthys 1 point2 points ago*

You know what? I came on this site for some laughs, not to get into an argument. I mean honestly, does it really matter what in particular this image is trying to convey? It will have vanished from the hivemind's consciousness in a matter of hours never to be seen again (unless another person reposts it). I genuinely and sincerely sincerely wish you a good night because I'm going to bed.

EDIT: Realized this might come off as agressive, but I'm being sincere here

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Protip; if you do not want to get into arguments, don't start arguments.

[–]Rhadamanthys 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, my bad

[–]Memphisbbq 1 point2 points ago

Maybe so but that doesn't mean we should acknowledge or foster the us vs them mentality. You beat them by being better, setting the example, seeing them as people and not the bad guys.

[–]auntie_eggma 0 points1 point ago

And then we all shit rainbows. But not the gay kind or the Christians will start howling oppression again, because nothing says oppression like supporting equality.

[–]yes_thats_right 0 points1 point ago

shall we talk about the recent repressive dictatorship Athiest regime and how they abused human rights for years and years?

Fidel Castro repesents all athiests just like Pat Robinson represents all Chrisians, right.. right? Do you see how choosing one person and assuming they represent everyone with the same religious belief as them is wrong?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

You can, but you would be talking outta yo ass! A dictatorship founded on and motivated purely by atheism, no such thing exists!

[–]kioni 2 points3 points ago*

But they have to realise that it isn't "us vs them." We don't believe in a god not because that is what we believe, but rather we don't believe in a god because there is more evidence against the claim than there is for. We are not an organization and we do not have an agenda. Some atheists lose sight of this.

[–]anonington 1 point2 points ago

I'm not sure why you were downvoted. That is exactly the point!

[–]kioni 3 points4 points ago

Most of the atheists here seem to be antitheist, and not specifically antitheist in the sense that they oppose religion for their political power and socially damaging decisions, but primarily antitheist in the sense that "someone is different from me, so fuck those guys."

It makes sense that they would, people rally behind emotion, but it certainly misses the point and may even exacerbate the problem.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

But it is. Christian exceptionalism is obvious. It is a core principle of Christianity, in fact.

[–]kioni 1 point2 points ago

They do see it that way, and apparently we justify it.

[–]suppleman459 1 point2 points ago*

It's like this, atheists dont have television hotlines that force elderly and not so bright individuals to send us money. I know force seems a harsh word but they tell their followers that God or the holy ghost has spoken to them. They then go on to say that they were "told" by God or the ghost that they needed to raise money for such and such. If you read the bible you will see that it is clear, if a follower doubts the word of the holy ghost they go to hell no matter what. So they force followers to ask, "if I doubt the televangilist am I also doubting the holy ghost? Did the holy ghost really speak to him? Is it worth guessing or should I just write the check to be safe?" Thats the wonderful art of theft and scare tactic that results in their primary source of income. They prey on people who decide not to think logically. When was the last time Bill Gates asked you or anyone for money? How about Buffet? yes there are Atheist con men but do they have private jets, multiple million dollar properties and a spot on Fox news? Religion is a powerful money maker and it's sad. Yes there are bad atheists but do they have near the massive mind control and pull that the christian tv thieves have? Absolutely NO! Edit* auto correct on the iPad.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

Also, the "bad atheists" that are out there, they aren't conning people in the name of atheism. Unlike Christianity, there is no core belief within atheism that says you have to believe anything anyone says.

[–]daewangbo 0 points1 point ago

anyone who has an us vs. them mentality and claims to be a Christian is a charlatan and isn't really practicing Christianity. they may have been raised in that setting but it doesn't make them one. just because a man was raised by wolves doesn't mean he's a wolf.

[–]yes_thats_right 0 points1 point ago

talking about it openly is not taboo - however encouraging it is wrong. These "millions of christians" are just as wrong as the athiest who also see it this way.

[–]dangeraardvark 0 points1 point ago

You see Us vs Them, I see 3 true statements in a row. If Christians choose to interpret it that way, that's on them.

[–]buttholevirus 0 points1 point ago

[–]dangeraardvark 1 point2 points ago

[–]sn1p3rb8 -1 points0 points ago

No it's not cherry-picking. You have the two richest atheists compared to the richest Christian.

[–]elbenji 4 points5 points ago

It's picking the richest televangelist.

There are richer Christians. I believe the richest man in the world is a Catholic if I'm not mistaken.

[–]DracoObscura 2 points3 points ago

You probably thought it was a Cardinal, NOPE! It was-a the POPE!

[–]elbenji 1 point2 points ago

I was thinking the Telecom king of Mexico...

[–]DracoObscura 1 point2 points ago

It's a line from Sweeney Todd, actually

[–]elbenji 1 point2 points ago

...

...

Fuck how did I miss that. I love that musical >>

[–]DracoObscura 0 points1 point ago

Haha, me too. No worries though man, we all miss the obvious from time to time

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, ugh. Need to see it again XD

[–]Youre_Always_Wrong 0 points1 point ago

Not to mention: COLTAN. Millions of child slaves, reportedly.

Plus, almost all the chocolate you eat, from another 2 million child slaves (minus fair-trade certified chocolate, I'm assuming), not to mention Victoria's Secret lingerie and a zillion others who use cotton and even coffee.

Millions and millions... of child slaves.

Also see:

http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/mctiy/til_the_majority_of_chocolate_consumed_today_is/

http://www.reddit.com/comments/kfrsn/npo_18_million_children_are_working_on_cocoa/

As for Buffet, chances are roughly 1000% that Berkshire-Hathaway has holdings in every horrible industry in the world.

Bill Gates made his money thanks in large part to retarding the computer industry by a decade (so many examples; one that is familiar to most people is Internet Explorer) along with Microsoft's many anti-competitive practices.

And don't forget about the Coltan, and Asian sweatshops making the hardware which all that software runs on.

For that matter, just go to a department store and try to buy any item of clothing. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Fucklaborregulationsstan. The problem is institutionalized and endemic.

Anyway, Buffet and Gates are just modern versions of Robber Barons who established gigantic endowments later in life to whitewash their misdeeds. It's standard PR.

This doesn't mean they don't ALSO do good deeds, but it's a mixed bag. Plus, context matters: Vaccinating millions of African children against rotavirus, without further intervention, simply punts the problem laterally. Lack of clean drinking water, sanitation, food, and prevalence of other diseases plus exacerbating overpopulation in areas with limited resources may either result in no net gain, or possibly an even worse population die-off slightly later from the resulting temporary population boom.

Read Jared Diamond's Collapse and see what precipitated the situation in Rwanda.

Which is worse, a higher child mortality that curbs population growth, or genocide?

This may sound harsh, and I am not at all speaking against helping people. I am simply pointing out that assuming everything will go to plan and trying to assign points for "good deeds" may be premature.

[–]Labut 0 points1 point ago*

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert Einstein

And that is why I believe people who think like you are MORE destructive than the people trying to do something by pointing out the "evils" that exist.

Down vote, yet /r/athiesm has completely gone down hill since it hit the front page. For shame...

[–]anpegi 2 points3 points ago

Please, explain how taking the richest of every group and comparing them is Cherry picking.

[–]dirtydoorknob 0 points1 point ago

Yea, that killed it for me too. Mostly because I didn't even know who Pat Robertson is.

[–]redkey42 -3 points-2 points ago

Well, let's build on it. Someone come up with some shitty examples of atheists to go along with Buffet and Gates. Someone also include some good examples of believers to counter Robertson.

Message: Good and bad has more to do with character, and humanist principles, than belief.

[–]Fletch71011 17 points18 points ago

Stalin and Mao.

And I hate to admit this in r/atheism, but there are plenty of good Christian choices. Oh man that hurt to type.

[–]god12 8 points9 points ago

0 upvotes? I will save you friend. upvotes

[–]gheis 3 points4 points ago

God saves?

in /r/atheism?

[–]god12 8 points9 points ago

I had completely missed that... Praise me!

[–]jesuscthulhu 2 points3 points ago

For theism. Martin Luther King, the Muslims who stood as human shields for the Christians in Egypt. ect...

I mean face Ideology not just religion can cause people to do some rather crazy things. Religion is just the popular choice.

[–]a4moondoggy 0 points1 point ago

Atheist: Kevin Bacon Christian: Mother Theresa

...this is actually a tough one

[–]Memphisbbq 1 point2 points ago

I'm guessing you're being downvoted because you're in /r/atheism and there could never be any asshole atheists.

How about this one, I had a friend that did nothing but do blow and looked for shit to steal so he could go buy more. He also swore up and down all kinds of hate and prejudice against religion and the religious(mainly christians)

This person has since turned around and is a pretty cool dude now. There's assholes everywhere, in every group of people. /r/atheism is no exception.

[–]redkey42 1 point2 points ago

I had no illusions that it was Eutopia, particulary that I just made the point that there are terrible religious people and non-relgious people. It would seem a little too sad if I didn't understand that parallel to r/atheism.

[–]Memphisbbq 0 points1 point ago

lol, I was agreeing with you.

[–]anpegi 0 points1 point ago

The atheist examples should be as respected by the more extreme atheists as Robertson is respected by extremist Christians.

[–]redkey42 1 point2 points ago

No one is really arguing with that. Not sure why I'm being downvoted for daring to suggest that assholes and good people exist among the religious and non-religious. I don't think theism does any good for scientific progress, or government, but I can see reality.

[–]anpegi 2 points3 points ago

The more militant faction here doesn't appreciate it, when they think you're helping the "enemy".

I just wanted to add something to your proposal, to make it more balanced. No criticism was intended.

[–]redkey42 0 points1 point ago

Ah. Have an upvote. :)

[–]thenicolai 36 points37 points ago

I'm not discounting the fact that Gates and Buffett have made very charitable contributions to society as atheists, but to pick a single theist as representative of the entire community is inaccurate and unfair, in all honesty. Turning it into a competition removes any sense of integrity that could have otherwise been present.

[–]Zariwoop 1 point2 points ago

Hey! I'm a member of the secular group that created the first two images in this panel and I totally agree. The third was tacked on by a Redditor after we posted this for the first time about a year ago.

[–]shit_reddit_says 0 points1 point ago*

He's not just a single theist. He's the richest theist in existence. He's not only the RICHEST theist alive (in America?), but he's a motherfucking preacher.

[–]elbenji 8 points9 points ago

He isn't the richest theist...

[–]shit_reddit_says 0 points1 point ago

I have absolutely no idea why I said that, to be honest. I may have been under the influence.

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

It's alright =)

[–]buttholevirus 1 point2 points ago

despite your bold and BOLD CAPS you are still incredibly wrong

[–]shit_reddit_says 0 points1 point ago

Too late. I already know this.

Also, dat username.

[–]shit_reddit_says 0 points1 point ago

Doesn't cite religious beliefs...

[–]greym84 5 points6 points ago

This is a typical bullshit repost. Rick Warren is an evangelical pastor that reverse tithes. That means he gives away at least 90% of his money to charity. Rick Warren is rich and a Christian and not a "cruel heartless man" like Pat Robertson.

For every greedy Christian you find, I'll find a greedy non-Christian. For every stupid Christian you find, I'll find an idiot atheist. If you want to play ball, you've got to rise above this ad hominem bullshit and philosophically actually challenge what Christians believe.

[–]Trepan 0 points1 point ago

I think the reason you see things like this is because of the religious argument that without religion you have no morality.

[–]greym84 2 points3 points ago

My point has nothing to do with that. It's simply that to go "Well, one guy who shares your belief about any given subject is a douche bag, and that automatically makes anyone who agrees douche bags and you're wrong. The end!" is really intellectually dishonest. And to top it off with "Look how awesome all of these guys who believe this one thing are" is really just icing on the cake. The game of "mines bigger than yours" isn't going to work on the cosmic scale of whether or not a god exists.

[–]anonington 1 point2 points ago

Exactly. The funny thing is that some atheists will do this and contradict themselves completely. It's not rational thinking when you start to argue ad hominem

[–]Trepan 0 points1 point ago

Technically I agree with you. However I don't think that the graphic was written with such a mean spirited message. Clearly anyone with any intelligence can see that just because two rich guys that don't believe in god donate money doesn't mean all non-believers do. There are a great deal of religious charities that religious people donate to that help everyone regardless of religion, color, creed.

I think the graphic is meant to show, look, here are moral Atheists that many religious people claim are nonexistent, and here's a crook religious leader to show you that not all religious people are perfect.

I am sorry that you are offended by it, I certainly didn't make the graphic, however I really don't think it represents what you feel it does. I really think it's a reaction to a very commonplace attack on atheists regarding 'morality is impossible without religion'.

If you watch any mainstream media coverage of 'lets talk with an atheist' the first thing they bring out is, stalin, pol pot were atheists and they had no immorality because they had no religion, and look what they did. I truly believe this graphic is intended as a form of defense against that sort of attack which is an attack that makes no sense and is truly ignorant.

[–]17Hongo 9 points10 points ago

"Pat Robertson is a cruel heartless man". Not to mention a bit of a wanker as well.

[–]JarrettP 7 points8 points ago

I almost read that as "Robert Pattinson is a cruel heartless man"

[–]Rhadamanthys 4 points5 points ago

I'm too tired right now, but if someone hasn't photoshopped a parody with Robert Pattinson by tomorrow morning, I'm so doing it.

[–]I_RARELY_RAPE_PEOPLE 0 points1 point ago

I'll be waiting for you. And if you don't deliver...

[–]17Hongo 0 points1 point ago

No -Just an actor in some genuinely awful films.

[–]ClusterMakeLove 2 points3 points ago

Are Gates and Buffet atheists? Or are we just assuming because they're smart and live secular lives?

[–]daLeechLord 2 points3 points ago

Yeah I agree the message is diminished somewhat, but Pat Robertson can seriously go fuck himself.

[–]Untitled86 2 points3 points ago

...I tried the website mentioned in the pics of Bill G and Warren B www.secularsamaritan.com ...It doesn't exist!?! I'm left wondering why this got upvoted with a bunk website on it.

[–]Zariwoop 0 points1 point ago

It used to redirect to our club website but this ad campaign is over a year old. Great to see it's still resonating! And to be clear, the first two in the series were created by our group and run on buses in the area. The third was created by a Redditor after the fact.

[–]N0v1K 1 point2 points ago

gods plan - make the riches men in the US Nicer than one who is "talking" to god. makes real sense.

[–]Sucks_At_Insulting 2 points3 points ago

You're all just a bunch of atheists.

[–]I_RARELY_RAPE_PEOPLE 0 points1 point ago

you're off to a bad start friend, but I have high hopes for this account...

[–]IamA_Jesus_AMA 15 points16 points ago

You pick the best atheists, and the worst Christians. You're as bad as the Christians that compare us to Stalin.

[–]OPsEvilTwin_S_ 12 points13 points ago

No, he picks the richest atheists, and the richest Christians.

[–]yes_thats_right 5 points6 points ago

he also picked a Christian whose charity donates hundreds of millions of dollars each year and lied about it.

As an Atheist I find this to be a complete embarasment from the OP

[–]CampHope 2 points3 points ago

Actually, he cherry picked one wealthy Christian. Robertson isn't anywhere close to one of the wealthiest people in the world. Here's the wealthiest Christian- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim

[–]freklz 4 points5 points ago

Which some could argue means the same thing.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

I remember reading Bill Gates lost his "Richest Man In the World" title either in 2011 or a few years earlier because of all the money he has donated into making this world a better place.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Pretty sure the richest man in the world is some Mexican tele-com guy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Yes, but you could say Bill Gates is 'rich' in a different way now.

[–]Gneal1917 0 points1 point ago

Carlos Slim

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

Yup, the man pretty much has a monopoly of all telecommunication in Central America and is basically AT&T in Latin America.

[–]GoJohnnyGoGoGoGo 1 point2 points ago

all that it shows is that people can be great or people can be assholes. There are many reasons to pound on religion but ascribing character traits as being caused by having religion or not having religion is exactly what the religious do.

[–]marmk 1 point2 points ago

Both Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are agnostic...

[–]MastaGrizz 1 point2 points ago

survival of the fittest my friend

[–]Zealex 1 point2 points ago

I never heard of Pat Robertson, but he looks like a douche so I'm going to assume he is a douche.

[–]Aiiimytoe 1 point2 points ago

People like Gates would have been good if they would have created decent jobs for the people they exploited so they can throw them a bone now, to ease their own conscience.

[–]ferguson133 1 point2 points ago

[–]freklz 1 point2 points ago

I love how r/atheism deals in either huge generalities or way too specific single examples.

[–]deadthoughts 1 point2 points ago

Solipists don't care about anyone but themselves.

[–]robociv 0 points1 point ago

not enough people understand this apparently, so A+ for outsmarting reddit

[–]deadthoughts 0 points1 point ago

lol i figured it just got overlooked. thanks for appreciating it though.

[–]pablothe 1 point2 points ago

Richest Person in the world, Carlos Slim, religious and doesn't give anything back to my country. ಠ_ಠ

[–]Droid017 1 point2 points ago

NO ONE ACTUALLY FUCKING SAYS THIS

[–]gajano 2 points3 points ago

How dare anyone say Pat Robertson "doesn't give back?" Why, he once purchased a $520,000 Thoroughbred race horse which gave considerable profits to the breeder. The man is a Saint! A Saint I say!

(By the way, the horse was named Mr. Pat. Seriously, I'm not making this up, check the wiki and see for yourself.)

[–]neogenic 4 points5 points ago

EVERYDAY IS REPOST DAY!

[–]twentyone_21 0 points1 point ago

welcome to r/atheism!!!

[–]JackTrickleson 5 points6 points ago

welcome to reddit

FTFY

Seriously the repost complaints are ridiculous, just downvote and move on.

[–]samurai712 2 points3 points ago

There are, of course, dickish atheists and awesome Christians. There is no real correlation to generosity between the two: Christians do nice things to please God, Atheists do nice things based on rational thought.

[–]fascistgases 1 point2 points ago

Do I get to post this next week?

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]anpegi 1 point2 points ago

I agree with you on Personalism. A lot of atheists won't have the same opinion as a theist. But Atheism dosn't contradict Communitarianism in any way. Or do you imply that one can only feel the need to help his community if he believes in a higher being?

I don't see how Personalism influences how one relates to those around them. Even if he thinks that humans are animals, the relation between him and others doesn't change, as he too is an animal then. So no better than his next.

I have no Idea why cultural relativism is too collectivist for you. Can't answer that point.

Your last point makes more sense, but I don't agree that Atheism is a movement at all. The only thing atheists have in common is the lack of belief in a higher being. That's not enough common ground for a movement.

As for being extrospective. Well, yes... We talk about the only thing we have in common. And that is Religion. Or the lack thereof. We act differently in our real groups, be it social or political.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]anpegi 0 points1 point ago

I don't see how the secular stance can be seen as not solidly articulated. Humanism is a quite thoroughly articulated philosophy.

Why assume that theism is necessary for altruism or respect for human beings?

I think the problem is that secularism never claims absolute and definitive truth, as it is based on human reasoning. Seeing itself as imperfect, it can change it's position when new facts are found.

A theistic philosophy must by definition stay unchanged, as it is divine. I can see how a Theist could feel uncomfortable about humanism. Everything is changeable, that is contrary to his worldview.

[–]BiblioPhil 0 points1 point ago

that was quite confusitivist to me

[–]Dammit182 1 point2 points ago

Robert Pattinson is an asshole

[–]madethistopostthis 1 point2 points ago

Neither of them are atheist. The best we know about Warren's religion is an accountant saying he is agnostic. As for Bill, he is also agnostic but about as far from anti-theistic as you could get.

[–]KiNGFroG 0 points1 point ago

Agnostic is a term used by people who are to afraid to admit that they are Atheist so I still go with that they are Atheist.

[–]robociv 1 point2 points ago

not even close to true. Athiests claim to have no faith, to be sure there is no God. Agnostics just dont know. They're the Swiss of religions

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g

^ interesting to think about when categorizing warren buffet/gates as "good"

[–]Andrichuk 0 points1 point ago

But Pat Robertons did a hell of a lot of praying!

[–]whiteknight521 0 points1 point ago

Is Warren Buffett openly atheist? I didn't know that.

[–]pahina1 0 points1 point ago

Is there any definite proof that Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are atheists?

[–]TexDen 0 points1 point ago

You know, believing in something just because you are afraid of what will happen if you don't believe it, is no reason to believe in something.

[–]Aussom 0 points1 point ago

I don't understand how people feel like they can categorize a whole group with one personality trait. I mean, haven't we been over this before humanity? Even this is just you guys "cherry-picking" some people to suit your argument. Not all Christians are evil and not all atheists are saints.

[–]Avasimos 0 points1 point ago

Good god (pardon the expression,) can we get something on this subreddit besides reposts?

[–]UltraJay 0 points1 point ago

Every time I see this I think those are spoiler tags. I think I need to get off Reddit.

[–]tiffanydisasterxoxo 0 points1 point ago

Being stingy has nothing to do with religion. Using that against someone for not donating money is just stupid.

[–]blowconfused 0 points1 point ago

It kind of does. The Bible says to feed and give to the needy. It also calls for Christians to tithe. Pat Robertson, as a Christian, should be doing those things.

[–]tiffanydisasterxoxo 0 points1 point ago

But if someone isn't charitable and happens to be a Christian they shouldn't be jumped on and their choice of religion shouldn't be the issue.

[–]blowconfused 0 points1 point ago

They should be jumped on. Reddit hates cherry picking. Giving is a major part of Christianity, so if a Christian doesn't give, they are leaving out a huge part of Christ's message.

[–]anonington 0 points1 point ago

There's a subtle double standard, though. If someone thinks that Bill Gates is good for giving (which the author does), and that Bill thinks it too, then they both believe that giving is good. So they both agree that it is morally right to give. But if that person doesn't give at all, then they should be judged the same as a Christian who doesn't give because they share that moral and don't follow it. It has nothing to do with being religious.

[–]blowconfused 0 points1 point ago

I somewhat agree. I think that if you're a religious, is does have to do with being religious. But at the same time, like you said, even an atheist should be judged for not giving, you just can't do that on a religious scale. I think people should give what they can, and if they can't give money, you can at least volunteer a little. It is what I try my best to do.

[–]anonington 1 point2 points ago

Of course, but it comes down to morality anyway. You can judge someone by your own morality, but if you share morals with them and don't adhere to them, you're just as accountable for it as they are. I find that some people would make the argument "Bill Gates gives his money and Pat Robertson doesn't", yet they probably do nothing either and hold similar morals to a Christian. It's hypocritical. And you're right, giving a little doesn't mean you're not following that moral - you're still giving, no matter how much or little it is.

[–]blowconfused 1 point2 points ago

Glad we can come to a conclusion! Have a good night fellow Redditor!

[–]anonington 1 point2 points ago

Same here, my friend! Goodnight!

[–]robociv 0 points1 point ago

the Bible also says eye for an eye, but we dont do that now do we?

[–]blowconfused 0 points1 point ago

You're ignoring the other half of the verse.

Matthew 5:38-42

38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’g 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

[–]jsphillips86 0 points1 point ago

Pat Robertson is a gigantic douche who exploits naive Christians into giving him money. I am a Christian who refuses to acknowledge that he is on our side. He is a bitter evil man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

If Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are so charitable and selfless, how did they get so rich?

[–]blowconfused 0 points1 point ago

The stock market and Microsoft.

[–]nickle_zmt 0 points1 point ago

I hate it when we nitpick like this. I am sure, by now, that we have established that in a large group of people there will be assholes on both sides. We are better than this reddit.

[–]Im_just_saying 0 points1 point ago

Christian here. No significant arguments with this post; but really, Pat Robertson is the wealthiest Evangelical? I find that hard to believe.

[–]Deadnettle 0 points1 point ago

Source of this ""Atheists don't care about anyone but themselves!" quote that we are debunking here? Other than your imaginations.

[–]habibU12 0 points1 point ago

The last guy isn't even necessarily in the same wealth group as them. It says he's the richest Evangelical, not the richest man. He could only have a mere 45 million dollars. Tricky wording but easy to see through.

[–]robociv 0 points1 point ago

Bill Gates has never outright said "I'm an Athiest", he has, however, claimed he does not know whether God exists, therefore making him agnostic

[–]Hootietang 0 points1 point ago

OOOOOohhhh thats a burn

[–]packerfanforlife 0 points1 point ago

I'm tired of this fucking post! As an atheist, I'm partially ashamed of it because it doesn't send the message of "you don't need Christ or any religion to be charitable." Instead, it sends the message of "Atheists are more charitable than Christians" and is just a religious-bashing type post.

Just, please, for the love of FSM, stop it!!

[–]igreenranger 0 points1 point ago

This is the one reason I hate people...

Fuck your argument

I'll just leave this here and this, I guess I can leave this) here too for all you young circle jerkers. ^ was intentionally worded that way... You should realize that even though Buffet gives his money away, he isn't really accomplishing anything...Any millionaire or billionaire can look like a saint or a philanthropist, simply by giving away money to different charities and organizations.

This has nothing to do with Atheists, Agnostics or Christian, just everything to do with people and Money... FUCK PEOPLE....

[–]zzPirate 0 points1 point ago

I've always been one to believe that organized religion was meant to be a set of guidelines for living well. A sort of aid to people that don't grasp the basic concept of not being a douchebag unless they are threatened with eternal torment. Somewhere along the line the concept that "This book helps you better yourself as a person" became "Believing in this book means you're a better person than everyone else"

[–]gaspah 0 points1 point ago

I don't think this is the best example.. these people made their empires by any means necessary.. putting people out of work, crushing smaller businesses, stealing etc etc...

I think somebody who has $10 donating $1 as far more charitable than someone with $1B donating $950M...

[–]rinon 0 points1 point ago

very nice image

[–]northbayray 0 points1 point ago

What about the Pope and his sweet hats, all paid for on the congregation's dime?

[–]BetaReality 0 points1 point ago*

I think the term atheist is not applicable if it is suppose to mean something in the general sense in lacking faith. Even though atheists claim to simply refute an existence of god and thus are atheists the problem is two fold. Limits on human knowledge and the human senses and how we categorize god in different ways. God is about a good presence and therefore a faith in good can be categorized as a faith in something spiritual and super natural ( edit: defining super natural is also abstract and saying humans are inherently good due to some universal code implies a super natural theme. That is why in the general sense an atheist is confronted with making sense of the world and similarly will make leaps in judgement like a faithful person) Therefore community service in helping humans to improve is a faith that humans will benefit and are good, and is a kind of prayer.

Also the limits on the human senses means that humans will also have to believe to a certain degree on how their surroundings are working. So by default humans are not perfect atheists or people who only operate on facts. Since a blind person will never know how the world looks like and must trust others. So any human with limited senses is already less of an athiest than a person with eyes.

Is atheism just about lack of faith. Or about following only the facts. I already covered lack of faith.

However if it is only the facts, then the problem of limited senses should be an example. Also limited knowledge and having faith in our current knowledge being true ( things which are questionable) and having faith beyond it as well. Also humans are emotional which is another reason why humans can not be perfect atheists. Their emotions are irrational, their emotions demand more than just facts.

What is an atheist? There is no perfect example of atheism when looking at the human as the model to define atheism from.

You say they are atheist but they are spiritual people in tune with their emotions.

[–]jwwiii1982 0 points1 point ago*

"Atheists don't care about anyone but themselves!" This is something I have yet to understand because atheists do not believe that what they do today is going to help them when they die, they do it because they feel it is the right thing to do. I was in a car wreck, and it was the other persons fault, and after I realized I was OK I got out of my car, saw the other car was smoking, and the other driver hadn't gotten out. I ran over there and got an 80 year old lady out of her car with the help of another man. Just for the record I am an atheist, so I do not believe in God, I believe we serve our purpose for the earth and basically become food for insects. So by the first statement, I should have let her stay in the car and not give two shits about her, especially since it was her fault. I hear this bull shit all the time about if you don't believe in God you can't be a good person. I actually wonder what the woman that I helped out of the car would say if she knew that I didn't believe in God? I wonder that only because I live in the bible belt and I'm surround by this on a daily basis. I don't dislike people who are religious, I just dislike people that think people are their religion before they are a human being.

[–]IloveQueen 0 points1 point ago

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are agnostic not atheist.

[–]Lots42 0 points1 point ago

Slave labor? First I heard of that related to him.

[–]ariah 0 points1 point ago

I don't think that Warren Buffett and Bill Gates' religions are actually known at all (and frankly it's not anyone's business). It is believed that they are both agnostic. Bill Gates has even talked about some of the merits of religion (especially Christianity) and has described himself as "blessed." You guys should be screaming your lungs out at him saying things about Odin and whatever else to belittle him into accepting your beliefs.

[–]The_Seventh_Seal 0 points1 point ago

I can't be the only one who thought he saw Gabe Newell in the preview....

[–]LowHangingTesticle 0 points1 point ago

Confirmation bias.

[–]sandman273 0 points1 point ago

Since when can two atheists and one Christian represent two entire cultural subgroups? Cause if we're going to do that, then why not go big and say all blacks are ignorant and poor, all hispanics should work in manual labor (specifically home construction and landscaping), all Asians have little dicks but are wickedly smart with technology, all white people are racist hypocrites (since they're bitching about slowly becoming the minority in America), and all women are sluts that are only good for making sandwiches and having babies. Yay generalizations off of one or two specific examples!!!!

[–]Bigman675 0 points1 point ago

Well sometimes i see post from atheist saying sorry for one of there members being stupid, so here's me saying for Christians sorry for one of our members or any of them that have wronged you. not all of us are bad. I hand out food to homeless people every saturday, all Saturday.

[–]nostrotep 0 points1 point ago

This just in- Atheism causes glasses.

[–]edteach 0 points1 point ago

Sources?

[–]viggysmalls 0 points1 point ago

Mohatma Ghandi said "I like your Christ but not your Christians", and I'm pretty sure the Bible says that its harder for a rich man to get to heaven then it is for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle. I don't know much about Christianity, but I would assume that many people who say they are Christian are not actually Christian and use the religion as an excuse to a) not donate (absolution of responsibility, god will help them) and b) control other people. By choosing the richest Christian aren't you picking someone who is less likely to have donated in the first place, because if he donated his wealth he wouldn't be as wealthy? So someone who is more Christian could not actually be the richest Christian.

I'm not a Christian so forgive me if I got anything wrong. Also however, I think both of them are "agnostic" which does not mean "atheist". Agnostic can mean you would like there to be a god and a heaven but you have found no conclusive proof. I think some atheists not only not believe in god because of no proof, they would rather there was no god.

[–]purebishop 0 points1 point ago

Too bad they can't spell "Evangelical" and have a parked domain. What's the point of promoting a website that isn't there?

[–]Mr10001 0 points1 point ago

It took me some time to figure this out, but it sure seems like smart people that are involved in religion are there to use it as a tool to use on other "weak" minded individuals. I apologize if this is offensive, but science.

[–]cmg0033[S] -2 points-1 points ago

I did not post this to try and give personality traits and morals to entire groups of people. I only posted it because I had never seen it here, and when I originally saw it the first thing that came to mind was the cliche that I titled it with. I was trying to show an example of the cliche being untrue; I was not trying to prove that the antithesis of it were the truth. And I don't want to sound like I'm whining, I'm not. I just like to be able to give my side of things whether it be in a face-to-face argument or on reddit.

[–]anonington 0 points1 point ago

Fair enough, but I think most people here are upset that the irrational argument that they get from Theists was used as a counterargument.

[–]onyxsamurai 0 points1 point ago

Objective comparison. Choose the best atheist examples and find the worst christian example and put them next to each other.

Christians agree Pat Robertson is a crazy shit.

[–]necroforest 5 points6 points ago

Well, he does have quite the following. HIs shitty 700 club show has been on for longer than a creationist will admit the world has been around for.

[–]onyxsamurai 0 points1 point ago

You can't fix crazy.

[–]elbenji 0 points1 point ago

There's a reason for that. He basically forced ABC/Disney into a lifetime contract and since they use ABC Family to dump the stuff in between Disney Channel and ABC, to keep the ratings for stuff like Secret Life, they keep 700 Club because Pat Robertson wont let it exist without his show as part of his contract.

[–]nilum 2 points3 points ago

Christians agree Pat Robertson is a crazy shit.

Some liberal Christians might. It doesn't change the fact that most (if not all) conservative Christians subscribe to his bullshit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

If you do that then you'll probably see that nonreligious are as moral as the religious population.

Morality has more to do with human traits than religion.