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all 79 comments

[–]MrPsyentist 56 points57 points ago

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The quote is actually credited to Scott D. Weitzenhoffer, if anyone's interested.

[–]cynognathus 36 points37 points ago

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It's also misquoted. Here's the actual quote:

Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon -- it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

And here's where it originates.

The picture here is of Troy Britain and taken from his website "Playing Chess with Pigeons."

[–]Ivan_of_Zeta -1 points0 points ago

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I remember seeing the quote on a youtube comment, that is why it is quoted as Anonymous, therefore not misquoted technically

so really its their interpretation of it

[–]niggachu 0 points1 point ago

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Thank you, I was wondering about this.

[–]RoundersBat 22 points23 points ago

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If the pigeon represents the christians, why's it playing chess with Jesus?

[–]mtldude1967 5 points6 points ago

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You beat me to it!

shakes fist

[–]RoundersBat 4 points5 points ago

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But you sir, are my first orange envelope. Therefore you have beaten those who shall bless me with this pixelated envelope of acknowledgement in the future.

[–]mtldude1967 1 point2 points ago

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Had I known I was your first, I would have been more gentle.

[–]invisibleninja7 2 points3 points ago

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It looks like Alan Moore to me...

[–]deejayalemus 0 points1 point ago

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Beat me to it.

[–]nesatt -2 points-1 points ago

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Wait, didn't Jesus have brown skin? And what about his very characteristic mole above the left brow? Can anybody point me to the part of the bible, which describes his body characteristics?

[–]Keldrath 5 points6 points ago

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Every William Lane Craig debate I have seen.

[–]cavortingwebeasties 2 points3 points ago

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Right? While searching for a sam Harris quote the other day, I ran across a site talking about the Harris/Craig debate, saying Craig 'thrashed him like a naughty puppy'. Strutting indeed...

[–]SilverBlooded12 1 point2 points ago

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You see, your question that I can't answer isn't the topic of the debate tonight. Repeat same argument

[–]KnockYourselfOut 9 points10 points ago

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Yeah, because all Christians are like that. And all Atheists are respectable gentlemen who are never wrong ಠ_ಠ

Sure, some Christians are dumb. But so are some Atheists. Let's stop throwing around stereotypes, shall we?

[–]harabanaz 3 points4 points ago

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Agree. The quote is a good one, but in my opinion the targets of it should be Those Whose Minds Are Made Up And Refuse To Be Confused By Facts.

[–]snipawolf 0 points1 point ago

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It is more than that. Presuming you are arguing about the veracity of their beliefs, they won't be able to come up with valid reasons for their positions and will start doing dumb things, like questioning the very truth of science and going into epistemology when you tell them evolution is a fact.

[–]SilverBlooded12 1 point2 points ago

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Repost, Now in Demotivational Form!

[–]fudge_mokey 1 point2 points ago

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Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

I believe that is the original quote.

EDIT: http://pigeonchess.com/playing-with-pigeons/

[–]JackNO7D 1 point2 points ago

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Why the fuck would you ever try to play chess with a pigeon?

[–]Tsukuyomi 0 points1 point ago

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Because they knock on your door sometimes or fly into your windows.

[–]ZergBiased 0 points1 point ago

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Hmm, I have run into the door knockers.... but through your windows??? That is an aggressive marketing strategy.

[–]Tsukuyomi 0 points1 point ago

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They actually knocked through my windows and yelled if anyone was home. I responded by yelling No.

[–]cameron1612 0 points1 point ago

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It's hard being a man among a huge flock of pigeons.

[–]FairlyInconsistentRa 2 points3 points ago

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Wait... I just thought of something. When you argue with a Christian, you're trying to disprove thier beleif. By arguing with them , you yourself are forcing your own beleif on to them.

Now I've noticed that people around these parts dislike having a Christian forcing thier views on to non beleivers, but do you realise that if you choose to argue with a beleiver, call them stupid, call them whatever, that you are forcing your views on them.

It works both ways. I myself have no problem if you're not a beleiver... thats your choice, and i sure don't force my views on to anyone, but by trying to tell a christian that they're wrong or whatever, you're forcing your views on to them.

I don't insult no beleivers, but plenty of people around here are quick to insult people who do beleive.

[–]Fearsome_Mudcrab 6 points7 points ago*

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I disagree with the whole "don't argue with me let me believe what I want" mentality.
Please,if you believe something try to convince me that you're right,if I don't believe that,I'll try to convince you you're wrong.That's the only way we can share knowledge.

[–]cameron1612 2 points3 points ago

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omg guys I finally stumped the atheists.

Who said anything about calling somebody stupid because they're a Christian? Arguments can be constructive, rather than destructive. Plus, it's usually the theist engaging in an argument, at least in my experiences.

Yet it is easy to insult people when you know that they're wrong.

[–]joshg8 4 points5 points ago

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The difference to many around here is that "non-believers" aren't forcing a belief most of the time, they are "forcing" provable truths ("please revise your views on how the earth and diversity of species came to be based on this evidence") or "forcing" believers to see the inconsistencies and falsehoods in their beliefs, or at least to consider how the "ideal morality" of their religions teachings may horribly clash with the reality of putting them into practice ("please recognize that making abortion illegal will not, in practice, stop abortion or benefit our society pragmatically").

[–]LiveOnSteak 5 points6 points ago

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Reality is not a belief. If you go around thinking that people can fly, I'm not forcing my beliefs on you if I tell you to stop pushing people off buildings.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points ago

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I don't think anyone has a complete grip on reality. Unless you know and understand everything, don't call your viewpoint reality. That's a little narrow-minded of you.

[–]LiveOnSteak 2 points3 points ago

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It's not my viewpoint, it's reality. Reality is reality regardless of what I or anyone else thinks. Reality doesn't care what I think.

[–]mybadalternate 1 point2 points ago

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"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points ago*

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I understand that reality is reality. I don't think it is possible to know reality in it's entirety so every stance, thought, etc is an interpretation (or at least a simplification) of reality with an incomplete set of facts. Calling your viewpoint reality doesn't affect reality either. What you are saying may or may not be reality. There have been many things considered a blatant reality that have been overturned throughout history. It would behoove us not to confuse what we think to be true with reality. Everything that we know has a possibility to be overturned by future evidence.

[–]JReAlity 1 point2 points ago

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My view on reality is this: There are no miracles in life; only Physics, Chemistry, and Mathematics. That's all life is, and it's all it will ever be.

[–]Lots42 1 point2 points ago

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Prove God is real and I'll stop giving religious people such a hard time.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago*

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I didn't say I was going to prove God is real. I was saying that claiming your viewpoint is reality is arrogant and illogical. I am all for providing evidence behind viewpoints to show how likely they are. However, I don't feel like we can perfectly know reality (we are always capable of being biased or making imperfect observations), we can just test it and make conclusions from the results and determine likelihood. I assume that's why scientists use the word theory instead of reality. Scientific theories are able to be overturned if there is overwhelming evidence contradicting them (more than the evidence supporting them). I don't see why our viewpoints should be any different, or why we should claim anything to be a reality if there is a possibility that it could be overturned. Reality isn't subject to change. Our understanding of reality is.

[–]Lots42 0 points1 point ago

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I can prove that religion has been the driving force behind a lot of hardships. This is why -I- give religious people a hard time.

[–]Zorgius 2 points3 points ago

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But a talking snake is fine?

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points ago

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Harry Potter is just a kid's book.

[–]Zorgius 4 points5 points ago

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I was talking about bible.

[–]phillycheese -1 points0 points ago

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It's funny because you're stupid.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points ago

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I am so stupid.

[–]Ninbyo 1 point2 points ago

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You're right, if we're speaking of walking up to some random Christian minding their own business. However, it's an entirely different matter when the argument is a result of either the Christian's proselytizing, or matters where laws or policy unfairly favor or promote Christianity.

[–]Lots42 1 point2 points ago

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Zero. Zero is the amount of fucks I give.

[–]Zorgius 1 point2 points ago

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It's more about what's "real" and by which "process" we should come at it. I would say "scientific" process is the most credible and it's deductions are "reality".

Now a christian can keep his beliefs to himself and i am cool with that(although it's a delusion and he's mentally ill) but when u say to teach creationism in classrooms then i promise i will shit on your face, kick your ass and throw your ass out of my sight. It's just not acceptable to indoctrinate our new generation with this crap. So we must be aggressive and be done away with ALL the religions.

[–]troncmaster 2 points3 points ago

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It depends on the source of the argument.

The usual chain of events is;

Wildly outlandish / obnoxious / hypocritical claim by theist.

Logical reposte by atheist

Unrelated counter-claim by theist

Logical reply by atheist

Claim by theist that atheist is persecuting their religion / is too closed minded / just doesn't understand.

One party may now draw a relation between their opponent and Hitler

No Atheist can force their belief's on anyone as by definition an Atheist doesn't have any belief.

There's nothing wrong with a straight argument / debate but if either party descends to the level of calling the other person stupid etc then they have lost any argument immediately.

I believe it is a variant of Godwin's Law.

[–]VariousTimes -2 points-1 points ago

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Great post, I'm gay.

[–]troncmaster 1 point2 points ago

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Thank's for sharing that with us. I'm not but my ex-wife is if that helps?

[–]HyperGiant 0 points1 point ago

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This isI the third time this has been reposted abhh

[–]OneDayBeRelevant 0 points1 point ago

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Checkmate, atheists

[–]Gravyness 0 points1 point ago

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Did this repost just made the creator of this anonymous?

[–]Gravyness 0 points1 point ago

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[–]iamlazyandyouaretoo 0 points1 point ago

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Also works if you replace christian with politician. Where's the repost of that one?

[–]GreatGroovyGood 0 points1 point ago

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Seriously?

How many times are we going to do this, guys?

[–]menonono 0 points1 point ago

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i go to a high school and i can say, yep that sums it up in a nutshell.

[–]rahtin 0 points1 point ago

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Could also just be changed to "Arguing with anyone on the internet"

I feel sorry for any of you that end up emotionally invested in an argument with my dumb ass.

[–]sreyemhtes 0 points1 point ago

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i have no problem with Christianity. the only thing i don't like about it is that apparently, Christians need the threat of hell in order to be a good person. be a good person because it's good. not because you'll go to hell otherwise.

[–]TheMormonAthiest 0 points1 point ago

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Their IQs are about the same too.

[–]c00yt825 0 points1 point ago

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Think outside the box. Stab the pigeon and feast upon its corpse, knowing that you killed in the name of rightiousness, and added to the survival of mankind.

[–]RICK_SANTORUM_R_PA 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah, when you're right you've got to make a scene to get your point across. This strategy has paid dividends for me in my debates.

[–]deejayalemus 0 points1 point ago

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ethinks whoever downvoted you didn't get the joke.

[–]AustinTreeLover 0 points1 point ago

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I often say it's like trying to win a poker game when the other guy is using an Uno deck.

[–]Office_Account -1 points0 points ago

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As a Canadian, I`m extremely thankful we dont have these religious types actually running around with any fucking authority.

[–]09112001 -1 points0 points ago

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One thing you can count on in every frontpaged /r/atheism post: Canadian superiority complex.

[–]TheElephantRiders -1 points0 points ago

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Whether the quote is correct, it's funny and sums up the arguments we all have pretty well.

Good stuff.

[–]Edodge -2 points-1 points ago

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Then why debate at all? Let them bask in being the mental equivalent of winged rats.

[–]troncmaster 1 point2 points ago

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Because some of them get to make laws and stuff.

They like affect everyday life in ways that's just not cool, man.

[–]Edodge -1 points0 points ago

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And I'm sure all the arguments you've had where you prove that you're so much smarter than them really gets them to reconsider those laws. Instead you have to spend your time reasoning with the non zealous to get them to realize what a threat the zealous truly are, and to vote accordingly. Most non political junkies have no idea how crazy some peoples stated views really are in politics. Some are learning now with little ricky showing the way.

[–]troncmaster 1 point2 points ago

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I agree that arguing with the zealous in public has no direct effect upon that particular person. The fact that someone has faith infers that they've suspended logical thought. It is extremely rare that such a person will be swayed by any argument regardless of the sense it makes.

However, and this is the thing...

Arguing with the zealous, in the public arena in the right manner i.e. by providing balanced reasoned argument will have the desired effect on the non zealous as it provokes them to think and see how unreasonable the zealous appear.

Allowing the zealous to promote their idiocy without counter argument only serves to make their statements appear part of the norm rather than the extreme.

[–]xdzgor -1 points0 points ago

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This is really nonsensical. Pigeons are birds. Christians are people. Of course a pigeon is just gonna strut around pecking - that's what they do! Christians have actually thought about things and taken a stance.

[–]Gravyness 1 point2 points ago

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For them I'm on hell, for me they are birds. But now we already insulted the Pigeons.

[–]xdzgor -2 points-1 points ago

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You'll need to rewrite that in English.

[–]deejayalemus 0 points1 point ago

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I think your post made me laugh harder than any of the others.

[–]winglessveritas -3 points-2 points ago

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You do realize that this works both ways, right? Either way, you're arguing something that you believe, not something you can prove.

[–]deejayalemus 0 points1 point ago

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So, we're both pigeons? Is that the false equivalency you're going for?

[–]winglessveritas 0 points1 point ago

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Depends on the person, honestly. Why is that so hard to accept? Do you think all christians are foolish, bigoted, judgmental assholes that are unwilling to have an intelligent and meaningful discussion about their beliefs? Would you entertain the possibility that maybe, just maybe, an atheist could exhibit the same behavior?

Do you somehow think EVERY atheist presents their thoughts (beliefs) in a respectful and non-condescending manner?

So, yes. Isn't it obvious that anyone can be the pigeon, regardless of subject matter discussed?

[–]imnotahick -5 points-4 points ago

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I would also agree thats a win, checkmate theists once again I love winning. This is a really poor attempt at a laugh

[–]Splatterh0use -4 points-3 points ago

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So true, mind blown.