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Abraham Lincoln on Morality (imgur.com)
submitted 7 months ago by abrickofclay
[–]SgtEddieWinslow 105 points106 points107 points 7 months ago
spoken like a true Vampire Hunter
[–]Anticipator1234 21 points22 points23 points 7 months ago
A bad axe mother fucker.
[–]Chaoangmoh -43 points-42 points-41 points 7 months ago
I'm not sure what you atheists are talking about, but regarding the original post... Lincoln frequently referenced God and quoted the Bible and he accompanied his wife and children to services. Pretty sure he's a Christian (-:
I may get downvoted for this, but this is the exact reason why Christianity is so prominent in this country, as all the best presidents have been either Christian or had Christian background :-)
Lastly, there is no evidence that he ever said this :-) Checkmate, "rationalists" ;-)
[–]K0NFUSION 13 points14 points15 points 7 months ago
Too...many...smilies...
[–]lukkyjay 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Wow, you're Christian and require "evidence". Good on you. :-) Here you go: http://books.google.com/books?id=rywOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA439&dq=%22when+i+do+good+i+feel+good%22#v=onepage&q=%22when%20i%20do%20good%20i%20feel%20good%22&f=false
[–]windg0d 7 points8 points9 points 7 months ago
I'll give you Lincoln was christian, fine; although historically that has remained unclear. Matters of your opinion however, have no authority in a logical argument. "but this is the exact reason why Christianity is so prominent in this country, as all the best presidents have been either Christian or had Christian background :-)" As there was no evidence he said this quote, there's no evidence this is true either- so your proof/opinion is bunk. Additionally, while r/ atheism typically does not have a burning hatred for theists as is the common stereotype your massively condescending tone is noted and not appreciated- it's not the point you made, its how you made it. You could have easily have pointed out there was no evidence he said this and input your own opinion without patronizing us. So that is why you are being downvoted, not because you made a fair point. (If your post was actually satire, I'm an idiot and ignore everything I just said.)
[–]Harddaysnight1990 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
His post was trolling. Check his history. Professional troll.
[–]windg0d 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
My god...he's going to make a wonderful politician someday with that kinda rhetoric.
[–]Sakabaka 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I'd say amateur at best. I've seen way better.
[–]Anticipator1234 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Google: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter .. and chill the fuck out.
[–]LeDocteur 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
Successful troll is successful.
Check out dat comment karma, mm.
[–]lYossarian 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Are you genuinely as big an asshole as your comments indicate? The vast majority of your posts (you've only had the account for 18 days?) are negative, pissy gripes about the quality or veracity of other people's posts. You then usually invoke your status as a Reddit gold member and go out of your way to tell the poster that you are downvoting them.
Please tell me this is a novelty account because if you are actually as big an asshole as you seem then I've completely lost my faith in humanity.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
The thing that you are missing is that this quote has nothing to do with Christianity, unless you are trying to imply that only Christians could ever think like that.
[–]Harddaysnight1990 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
While Lincoln was Christian, he was also a humanist. And he understood that religion was not a basis for morality.
I do agree that quotes on the internets shouldn't be taken at face value though. There's a history professor at my school with this on his door:
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you can never really be sure of their validity" -Abraham Lincoln
[–]DeMartini 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I accompany my wife to church. Am I a christian? I have nipples. Can you milk me?
[–]dirtyiggy 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Speech given on Lincoln's faith at a freethinkers conference in the early 1900s. Enjoy!
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewis07.htm
[–]xerxes431 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Wow, out of all the presidents, 44 were christian. It follows that the best would be Christian. The funny part is, the best intellects in American history were not Christians.
[–]Anticipator1234 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Actually, Jefferson was clearly a deist at best. He edited the Bible cutting out any reference of supernatural acts by jesus.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I may get downvoted for this,...
Ask and you shall receive
[–]Finnn_the_human 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago
Don't expect to straighten them out, buddy.
[–]internetV -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
haha I see many people agree with you, nice karma bwahahaha
[–]verynayce 8 points9 points10 points 7 months ago
"When I hunt vampires, I feel like a badass."
[–]Flumptastic 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
and hemp smoker
[–]reidrk 36 points37 points38 points 7 months ago
"Be excellent to each other. Party on dudes!"
Sound advice for life.
[–]wayndom 33 points34 points35 points 7 months ago
My fave Lincoln quote:
"If slavery isn't wrong, nothing is wrong."
[–]Phallic 78 points79 points80 points 7 months ago
To which the South replied:
"Woohoo! Nothing is wrong!"
[–]AllDesperadoStation 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
Fuck that was funny.
[–]NOODL3 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
No redditor in the last several weeks has earned my upvote as much as you, good sir.
[–]EltaninAntenna 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
That became their unofficial motto.
[–]Doombringer223 11 points12 points13 points 7 months ago
“I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. And I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. … And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” – Abraham Lincoln in his fourth debate with Stephen Douglas in the campaign for the United States Senate on September 18th of 1858.
[–]fallore 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
that's a monster of a quote. i've had my reservations about abraham lincoln since i learned that he kept slaves or at least was ambiguous about his personal feelings on slavery, but that's the nail in the coffin. he did good things, but some of his beliefs were definitely incorrect.
[–]sje46 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
"Nailin the coffin"? So what does that mean...you consider him more bad than good?
He freed he slaves, entirely for moral reasons. He also happened to think that they were inferior to whites. But he--as we all are--was a product of his time. Nearly all people felt that way back then. The power of conformity, confirmation bias, and just poor education does that to people. In my opinion, you should judge people by how progressive they are in relation to the society around them.
For all we know, in thirty years the world would have turned vegan and they all judge us negatively for eating animals. Would that be fair? I mean, think about it.
[–]NicoBan 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
He freed he slaves, entirely for moral reasons.
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." Lincoln in a letter to Horace Greeley.
Entirely...
[–]-Mew 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
^ A more accurate way of viewing our history.
[–]Harddaysnight1990 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Abraham Lincoln was a racist mother fucker. But he was still a humanist. He still believed that people deserve basic rights. In fact, he didn't even consider blacks at the same level intelligence-wise until he met Fredrick Douglass.
[–]Lolo-loman -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
Imagine you spent your whole life being told that a certain group was inferior, and due to social circumstances (ie lack of education) the majority of which really were intellectually inferior. Then one day you meet someone from that group that contradicts all your years of experience. It takes a great man to realize his failings, and Lincoln was a great man.
[–]Lolo-loman 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I recommend you read "Team of Rivals" - both because it's an awesome book on leadership, and also because it gives a more nuanced perspective on Lincoln's moral views on slavery.
[–]Doombringer223 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I understand that Lincoln was opposed to slavery. I also understand that Lincoln was a pretty big racist. What I don't understand is why people quote him so much.
[–]wayndom 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Yes, Lincoln apparently never believed blacks were equal to whites, and worried about the consequences of freeing them, since he thought they'd never fully integrate into American society.
But it's to his credit that he didn't think equality under the law should depend on actual equality (i.e., that smarter people shouldn't have more rights than less intelligent people), and his conviction that slavery was unjustifiable was not influenced by his mistaken ideas of the capabilities of black people.
Have you ever read Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley.
"Executive Mansion, Washington, August 22, 1862.
Hon. Horace Greeley: Dear Sir.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.
As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.
Yours, A. Lincoln." Lincoln did not care about the slaves or slavery. He only cared about saving the union and only did what was popular to save the union. I believe that says a lot about the man's character.
Lincoln was acutely aware of the effects of anything he said on the general public, and how said effects would help or thwart his goals. He was also aware that while the North was largely appalled by slavery, northern whites were also ambivalent at least to the idea of blacks becoming equal citizens. There were Union battalions that swore to keep the Union together while also swearing to keep blacks from gaining legal equality.
There is abundant evidence that Lincoln was a passionate abolitionist. His rise to political fame was fueled entirely by the fact that he was the most popular and potent abolitionist speaker in the country. And in fact, his reputation as an abolitionist was so strong that his election alone was the trigger that started the civil war.
Given the conflicting evidence, and Lincoln's well-establlshed personal morality, I have no doubt that the above letter to Greeley was an outright lie, crafted to reassure the racist northerners who were willing to fight to prevent the South from seceding, but were uncomfortable, to say the least, with the thought of blacks becoming equal citizens.
Here's Frederick Douglass' account of his meeting with Lincoln in the White House in 1864, when the media was clamoring for an end to the war, and Lincoln was worried that an early end would seal slavery in place:
The increasing opposition to the war, in the North, and the mad cry against it, because it was being made an abolition war, alarmed Mr. Lincoln, and made him apprehensive that a peace might be forced upon him which would leave still in slavery all who had not come within our lines. What he wanted was to make his Proclamation as effective as possible in the event of such a peace. He said in a regretful tone, 'The slaves are not coming so rapidly and so numerously to us as I had hoped.' I replied that the slaveholders knew how to keep such things from their slaves, and probably very few knew of his Proclamation. 'Well,' he said, 'I want you to set about devising some means of making them acquainted with it, and for bringing them into our lines. He spoke with great earnestness and much solicitude, and seemed troubled by the attitude of Mr. Greeley, and the growing impatience there was being manifested through the North at the war. He said he was being accused of protracting the war beyond its legitimate object, and of failing to make peace, when he might have done so to advantage. . . He saw the danger of premature peace, and, like a thoughtful and sagacious man as he was, he wished to provide means of rendering such consummation as harmless as possible. I was the more impressed by his benevolent consideration because he before said, in answer to the peace clamor, that his object was to save the Union, and to do so with or without slavery. What he said on this day showed a deeper moral conviction against slavery than I had even seen before in anything spoken or written by him.
The increasing opposition to the war, in the North, and the mad cry against it, because it was being made an abolition war, alarmed Mr. Lincoln, and made him apprehensive that a peace might be forced upon him which would leave still in slavery all who had not come within our lines. What he wanted was to make his Proclamation as effective as possible in the event of such a peace. He said in a regretful tone, 'The slaves are not coming so rapidly and so numerously to us as I had hoped.' I replied that the slaveholders knew how to keep such things from their slaves, and probably very few knew of his Proclamation. 'Well,' he said, 'I want you to set about devising some means of making them acquainted with it, and for bringing them into our lines. He spoke with great earnestness and much solicitude, and seemed troubled by the attitude of Mr. Greeley, and the growing impatience there was being manifested through the North at the war. He said he was being accused of protracting the war beyond its legitimate object, and of failing to make peace, when he might have done so to advantage. . . He saw the danger of premature peace, and, like a thoughtful and sagacious man as he was, he wished to provide means of rendering such consummation as harmless as possible. I was the more impressed by his benevolent consideration because he before said, in answer to the peace clamor, that his object was to save the Union, and to do so with or without slavery. What he said on this day showed a deeper moral conviction against slavery than I had ever seen before in anything spoken or written by him.
[–]ChrisGentry 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Didn't Lincoln want to pack up black people and deport them to central america?
[–]sje46 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Wasn't that supposed to be voluntary?
[–]T-Luv 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Yes, free blacks in the north petitioned congress for colonies in central America. Lincoln explored the option. It's not like Lincoln wanted to just round up black people and throw them on a boat and whatever happens happens. The US was in a crisis. The north and the south were fighting, and the union was in jeopardy. I'm sure he was exploring just about every option available, not just packing up black people and deporting them to central America.
[–]lmrm7 35 points36 points37 points 7 months ago
Source?
[–]abrickofclay[S] 63 points64 points65 points 7 months ago
Source-Quote from 439 Hemdon's Lincoln (1890) p. 349 (en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln)
[–]lmrm7 20 points21 points22 points 7 months ago*
thank you very much
[Edit] After confirming not troll, I was finally able to upvote this
[–]thaddeusgreenhand 24 points25 points26 points 7 months ago
http://books.google.com/books?id=rywOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA439&dq=%22when+i+do+good+i+feel+good%22#v=onepage&q=%22when%20i%20do%20good%20i%20feel%20good%22&f=false
[–]lmrm7 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
thank you too
[–]generaladmission 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
After reading the passage, I think this would be more appropriate: http://imgur.com/ZwC5I
[–]thaddeusgreenhand 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
-Michael Scott
[–]CaidaVidus 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Has anyone actually read the passage?? They weren't Lincoln's words. They came from an old man Lincoln once met in Indiana. He only likened his beliefs to that quote, he didn't actually say it. I expected better from you r/atheism!
[–]Fletch71011 102 points103 points104 points 7 months ago
“The thing about quotes from the internet is that it's hard to verify their authenticity.” – Abraham Lincoln
[–]lmrm7 18 points19 points20 points 7 months ago
... I really should have seen that one coming...
[–]torah_sam 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
You should have put that Jesus quote in quotations. In the words of Carlos Mencia "its not nice to steal other peoples words and use them as your own"
[–]Oxupied 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Feeling bad or good about your actions depends on the culture you were raised in. An Apache in 1850 would have no qualms about torturing a captive for example.
[–]oblong127 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
hence why no one religion will ever dominate the world without (even more) massive amounts of bloodshed/ genocide.
[–][deleted] 7 months ago
[deleted]
[–]abrickofclay[S] 11 points12 points13 points 7 months ago
[–]rosts 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
That's closer to a proof he actually said it than most other quotes flying around.
[–]Haqpyfeet 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago*
OPs Ass?
[–]Penleg 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
foot?
[–]rufud 13 points14 points15 points 7 months ago
I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. ... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. - Abraham Lincoln, Letter to General William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864
[–]g_a_b_e_2_0_1_1 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
The fact that Lincoln (and the Founders) could foresee this sort of thing so precisely almost 150 years is amazing to me. Its such a coherent statement on the affairs of corporations using the peoples ignorance to further their own greed.
[–]NinetiesGuy 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Snopes calls bullshit on this one, but puts it at 1896, so it's really irrelevant who said it. It was still a long time ago. I've seen a lot of quotes like this from ~100 years ago until now, and I don't necessarily see them as the result of extraordinary foresight. I just think this stuff has been happening for so long that what we're seeing now is the culmination of a long period of infiltration. It says to me that the corruption and influence is probably even more entrenched than we realize, and we're starting to realize quite a bit. As an OWS supporter/participant, we've got a lot of work ahead of us to stop the inertia of a century or more of corporate string-pulling.
[–]jonorsi 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
100 years is really small compared to the centuries that many civilizations live.
[–]pissed_the_fuck_off 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Are there a lot of other civilizations to compare to?
[–]Ijuantbeans 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
I read this in Sylvester Stallone's voice.
[–]extreme_flounder 7 points8 points9 points 7 months ago
Wasn't he a religious man though?
[–]Cubetacular 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
In early life no, in fact he resented God for the loss of his Mother, first love (ann) and first son. Later and especially after losing his second son (willie) he became deeply, deeply religious. Spending a great deal of time at church and in prayer. This was the first time he picked up "church" really.
It also lead him to his decision on the Emancipation Proclamation. He was motivated by his religious beliefs to finally close the deal on it, even at the cost of pissing more people off. He did add in the clause about if rebel states rejoin the Union by X date, they can retain slavery. (Source: I worked for a Lincoln Historian during college and have read most of his biographies).
[–]extreme_flounder 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Thanks for clearing that one up
[–]Ins0mn1ac 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
As much as I would like to think he was an atheist, Lincoln was deeply, deeply religious. He learned to read primarily from Shakespeare and the Bible (this is per Doris Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals). This began a deep religious involvement for him. He frequently cited his religion in conversation with friends and coined the "this nation, under god" term in the Gettysburg address.
As an avid student of all things Lincoln, I can say that this quote does not seem at all like something he would say.
....I'm ready for my downvotes now
[–]Penleg 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago*
in his early life he wasn't very religious, but durring the civil war he began to read his bible religiously (if you'll excuse the pun) and became very religious. At least that's what my Civil War teacher told us. But he was in no way Atheist or Agnostic, Lincoln That is
[–]CaidaVidus 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Deeply. I can't find a single legitimate source (aside from coolquotes.com or some dumb shit) that attributes this quote to Lincoln. I call bullshit.
[–]servohahn 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
I'm sure that each of those words was uttered by Lincoln at some point in his life. Just take them out of context a little and viola!
[–]SpaceTurtles 14 points15 points16 points 7 months ago
"When I do... good... I feel... good... When I do... bad... I... feel bad... That's my... religion." - Abraham Lincoln, between the dates of April 13th, 1830 and January 5th, 1862.
[–]Haqpyfeet 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
I can count to potato
With all the upvotes this got, it's amazing how much blind faith people had in the quote really being from Lincoln. I find this belief with a lack of evidence quite disturbing.
[–]servohahn 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I find your lack of blind faith disturbing. Enough of this! Lincoln, release him!
I upvoted it because I like it, not because I give a shit who supposedly said it. I upvoted you for the same reason.
-pissed_the_fuck_off 2012
[–]thaddeusgreenhand 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
[–]CaidaVidus 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
That passage says that Lincoln likened his beliefs to that of an old man (Glenn from Indiana) that he once met. Not his own words. Just think we should be clear about that.
[–]Penleg 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
it's likely it could be from Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter, i haven't read it in quite some time but it may have came from that book.
[–]mikek44224 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Actually, the mainline Christians of his time hated him. A biographer of Lincoln named Jesse Fell said that Lincoln did not believe in the divinity of Jesus, the Atonement, the infallibility of the Bible, miracles, or heaven and hell. Evangelical preachers tried to make a big deal about his unorthodox beliefs in his campaign for Congress.
[–]pgibso 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Although he suffered from depression his entire life.
which lead to mercury poisoning durring the Civil War, he was taking Anti Depressants and they had traces of Mercury in them causing him to hallucinate occasionally and see ghosts of his fallen generals...until he stopped taking them of course
[–]DarrenBurton 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Saviour gave to the world was communicated through this book.
-Lincoln
[–]nthckr 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
What if they just switched the order?
When I feel good, I do good. When I feel bad, I do bad.
It seems more accurate that way...
[–]mandrilltiger 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Really he said that?
Kind of Ironic seeing that he is sort of the reason "Under God" is in the Pledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_.22under_God.22
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
A counter for this would be, "how does one define that which is good, and that which is bad?"
By the feeling we receive from it? Would that just be circular logic?
[–]futurepilotusn 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Definite a "man names Glenn" quote and not Lincoln's.
[–]Duck3h 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
You all do realize that although this is from a book, the book explicitly states that it was NOT Lincoln who said this. To quote: In illustration of his religious code I once heard him say that it was like that of an old man, Glenn, in Indiana, whom he heard at a church meeting and who said (As in Glenn said it) "Quote from the picture".
So Lincoln was like this, but didn't explicitly state it in those words.
[–]runtiferus 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
"Bustin' makes me feel good." - Ray Parker Jr
[–]Nikoras 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
This is actually a bad policy on morality. Morality shouldn't have to do with how you feel, you should be able to figure out what is right through contemplation and then do it regardless of how you feel after. Sometimes doing what's right makes you feel bad after.
[–]Eldias 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
You guys do realize as the war dragged on he had more and more theistic leanings right? By the time of his death he was pretty far from an atheist...
[–]TelegraphSexOperator 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
"You cannot trust everything you see on the Internet for its validity." - Abraham Lincoln
[–]wtfno 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
A stupid, empty quote. Plenty of assholes don't feel bad after doing something shitty. It's called the world we live in. Plus, on the flip side, feeling bad after doing something bad is after the fact, not preventative.
[–]Dereliction 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
That's a pretty shitty basis for a moral code. I mean, what if one is a sociopath?
[–]FuriousFapmaster 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."
-Thomas Paine
[–]Blandfrw 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Not sure if actual Lincoln quote
[–]atheist_maybe 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Sorry, this just sounds like a really, really bad morality. Plenty of people have done things that are wrong, and not felt bad about it. This doesn't make it not wrong. Morality should be based on human suffering, not your personal feel-goodness.
[–]jjness 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
http://youtu.be/eNNVONAeENo
[–]BLKavarice 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
He also believed all men were prompted by selfishness to do good. We only do good things because they benefit us.
Source: The Elements of Moral Philosophy
[–]EvilAnagram 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Gay!
No, seriously; there's compelling evidence that he favored men. It is a bit of a non sequitur, but I just learned this and I find it fascinating.
[–]wayndom 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
He's only known to have fallen in love twice in his life, both times to women.
The first was killed by a bastardly vampire! Those scoundrels!
[–]EvilAnagram 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RvoH_nJUDk
I think I overstated it when I said that there was "compelling" evidence that he was gay, but the notion intrigues me.
[–]SheaF91 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
How could this guy be gay?
[–]brosephjyant 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
By... liking men?
[–]SheaF91 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Oh yeah, forgot about that.
[–]knightofmars 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Perhaps him slicing a tree in half is a metaphor for his struggle with his homosexuality.
[–]sje46 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Did you make a sincere effort to understand the counterargument to that? Be honest. Are you sure you don't just believe it just because you like the idea of Lincoln being gay? Again, be honest...not to be, but to yourself.
Historians disagree with you because sleeping in the same bed with other men wasn't unusual or "gay" in those days.
I didn't say I believed it, just that it was an interesting idea.
[–]AllDesperadoStation -2 points-1 points0 points 7 months ago
Gay?
[–]PoopMachin3 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Sorry Abe, but thats philosophy, not religion.
[–]TheBobbyLean 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Are we talking about freed the slaves Lincoln or killed the Vampires Lincoln?
[–]cinnamonandgravy 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
does the reverse work? if you feel good, does that mean youve done good?
autoerotic asphyxiation for christ!
[–]omatic810 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Much like babies and underwear gnomes, I'd like to know where this is sourced from.
[–]WeekendWarrior25 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Earl hickey over there
[–]Prescription_pants 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
[–]Cubetacular 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
If you like Lincoln, read "A Team of Rivals." You will like him far, far more afterward.
[–]Izminko 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
NEVAAARR!!
[–]corpsefireNL 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
"Sometimes I like to ride my motorcycle and go ZIP ZOP ZOOBITY BOP down the treadmill redways" - Bill Clinton
[–]krypto1339 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Puts this song into much better context. Good on ya, Mike Skinner.
[–]jacobtaylor1987 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Awesome.
But, I need to ask (sorry to sound like a troll), how do we define what constitutes 'good' and what constitutes 'bad'.
[–]Crushader 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1611224/#lb-vi724476185
[–]wisenheimer 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Is that Abe in the corner?
[–]JohnnyLongarms 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Now... did the streets (whatever that word is that means not exact, regarding quotes)quote Abraham Lincoln, or is this one of those internet things?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNNVONAeENo
[–]TedyBearGumDrops 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Lincoln had a high pitch voice.
I see what you did there Lincoln. But What do you base "good" on? The word is arbitrary, it's not fact. So doing "good" or "bad" must be compared to something concrete.
[–]severus66 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
More like "that's my biology."
[–]Rayf_Brogan 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Which is why he always sat in the back and ducked out early. I hated it when people got to leave service early. We always had to wait until the final hymn was over(which want on forever).
[–]Krastain 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad.
A typical saying from someone who suffered from clinical depression and so felt bad more or less all the time.
[–]angelofdeathofdoom 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
This is kinda horrible advice. What if a person feels good doing bad things?
what better advise is there, though?
There are a lot of philosophies about morality and I'm not familiar with all of them. It is such a vast topic.
I like Rousseau's ideas on the state of nature i.e and emphasis on empathy.
Also there is Sartrean ideals which says that when you make a choice do to something you are stating that it is okay for everyone to make that same choice. For me this applies to the big questions of morality. Like why you shouldn't lie or murder. If everyone does those then society would fall apart.
However that idea falls apart in grey area topics, like abortion. Not everyone one can get an abortion otherwise our species would die out. But there are circumstances where it is necessary.
there is always the golden rule too, but that falls back to Rousseau a little.
In a very simple form, I guess i would go with don't harm others or restrict their freedoms.
[–]binge90 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Conclusive proof that fapping is a virtue.
[–]Flintlock_1 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I wonder how he felt after being responsible for the deaths of 600,000 Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause
[–]zip99 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I think he meant to say "When I do things that I prefer I feel good..." By using the term "good" he's implying as though there are moral laws that should apply to others. That wouldn't make sense in an atheist universe where chemical reactions in the brain are each person's only absolute.
[–]botena 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Narcissist.
[–]TonyJAMM 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
FUCK YEA LINCOLN!!!!
[–]Lincoln_A_Racist 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago
On November 5, 2006, Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death by hanging for crimes against the people he governed. He murdered over 100,000 Iraqis during campaigns against rebel uprisings. In these attacks he used nerve agents to wipe out entire villages (Washington Post). Now, imagine in 150 years he could be worshiped as a martyr, savior, and perhaps a deity. Twenty-foot statues could be erected in his memory and his birthday could be celebrated as a national holiday. Which is what happened to the most ruthless tyrant in United States history, Abraham Lincoln?
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” – Abraham Lincoln (Lincoln, Fourth Debate)
Before anyone can attack the god-like persona of Lincoln they have to discredit his legacy. Lincoln’s two most historical accomplishments are The Emancipation Proclamation and saving the Union during The War of Northern Aggression. In the previous direct quote from Lincoln, he makes it obvious that he was a white supremacist. He was against slavery, but only in the way many people today are against hiring illegal immigrants for cheaper labor. He didn’t believe anyone should be in bondage, but he also held the belief that there should never be a biracial society and Negroes (as he referred to slaves of African descent) should not be allowed to have equality nor citizenship. During his second State of the Union address he presented a portion of his plan to deport all black people. “I cannot make it better known than it already is that I strongly favor colonization…” (Lincoln, Second State) Plans were researched and developed to send all blacks to Liberia, Haiti, Panama, or a number of other places during his presidency. In the first Lincoln-Douglas debate he said, “My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land. “ (Lincoln, First Debate) Lincoln made it very clear that he not only didn’t like the fact that black people were in the bondage of slavery, but rather he didn’t like that black people were around at all. Black people had no place in Lincoln’s ideal society.
By now it should be easy to see that when the southern states succeeded from the Union and the most gruesome war in American history was fought, it was not because of slavery. While, at the time, many referred to the colonies’ succession, not 100 years earlier, and argued that if the southern states felt the need to leave the Union, they should be allowed to do so, Lincoln's attitude was one of resentment against the confederacy, and he was determined to make sure that the South never tried to succeed again. Lincoln sent 75,000 militia men to put down an “insurrection.” (University of Virginia) There would be no compromise. There would be no negotiation. By the end of The War of Northern Aggression there will have been more than 620,000 casualties. (Public Broadcasting) Then why did Lincoln go to war?
More than keeping the Union together, he had to keep his sovereignty together. Lincoln would have lost approximately 75 percent of all ports in the United States, along with a very large portion of taxes. He wanted to colonize other nations with free blacks, but how could he accomplish this if he couldn’t keep his own nation together? Lincoln’s record shows that he would not suffer an uprising quietly. During the Sioux Uprising of 1862, Lincoln personally authorized the execution of 39 Sioux as a punishment for the uprising. The whole conflict was caused by the United States government failure to pay the Sioux for the purchase of tribal lands (University of Missouri). The Sioux men that were committed to death never received a fair trial.
Then why would Lincoln free the slaves?
Lincoln freed the slaves in order to attack the southern states economically. In a letter to Horace Greeley he says, “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it” (Lincoln, Three Letters). Lincoln understood that once the Union was restored, if he destroyed the labor force of the southern plantations he could ruin the economy of the South making his victory that much stronger. He also used it a pawn in a nearing re-election political campaign
What if Lincoln was never assassinated?
One can only speculate on what the world could be like if Lincoln was never assassinated. Would he have continued his plans to deport the black race? Would there even be a Barack Obama presidency? Would the civil rights movement of the 1960s have taken place if Lincoln hadn’t been stopped from his white supremacist ways? These items are just food for thought.
In conclusion, Abraham Lincoln was a bigoted white supremacist. He was a warmonger, a tyrant, and a figure shrouded in illusion. When Lincoln was killed he had just won the war. He was already an elevated figure because of that, but when he was killed he became a martyr. Lincoln, to some people, is a Christ-like figure that died on Good Friday for the sins of the nation. Temples of worship have been built in his honor, cities have been named after him, he is celebrated on President’s Day along with George Washington, his likeness is on American currency, and he is the subject of Hollywood movies. People don’t want to believe that their idols and heroes could have more in common with myth than truth.
Works Cited
Lincoln, A. (1858, August 21). "First Lincoln-Douglas Debate" Ottawa, Illinois. Lincoln, A. (1858, September 18). "Fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate" Charleston, Illionois. Lincoln, A. (1862, December 1). "Second State of the Union Address" Lincoln, A. (n.d.). Three Letters from Lincoln. Retrieved March 22, 2012, from Internet Archive: http://archive.org/details/threelettersfrom00linc Public Broadcasting Service. (n.d.). The Great War Resources. Retrieved March 27, 2012, from http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/resources/casdeath_pop.html Olusoga, D. (Producer), Salmon, C. (Writer), & Olusoga, D. (Director). (2010). Abraham Lincoln: Saint or Sinner [Motion Picture]. University of Missouri, Kansas City - School of Law. (n.d.). Chronology of the Dakota Conflict (Sioux Uprising) Trials. Retrieved March 27, 2012 University of Virginia. (1861, April 15). Key Events in the Presidency of Abraham Lincoln. Retrieved March 27, 2012, from http://millercenter.org/president/keyevents/lincoln Washington Post. (n.d.). Saddam Hussein - Life and Death of a Dictator. Retrieved March 27, 2012
[–]purplelephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
It's so simple, yet so complicated..
[–]fireorgan 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
problem is sometimes when you do bad, you feel great.
[–]HovarTM 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I'd say this doesn't always work especially with mentally disturbed serial killers.
[–]NicoBan 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Like Lincoln.
[–]novaff13 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Abraham must have been a very miserable man than... I recently read a book called "The Real Lincoln". It was very informative and expelled a lot of the Lincoln myths. He was actually a horrible president and a dictator. He is who started the militarization of the united states and destroyed the constitution by keeping states from lawfully seceding, starting the draft, locking people in jail for years for speeches and political believes without trial, and killed hundreds of thousands of men so the northern business interests (who put him in power) could keep their economic power. Unfortunately we praise him for ending slavery, but the truth is he didn't care about slavery one iota. Even his emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in "Rebel States" not slavery all together. So those states that were friendly were able to keep slavery going no problem. Sad... Very sad that he is worshipped in modern day politics. Slavery could have ended peacefully like everywhere else in the world, our civil war was due to this incompetent leader.
[–]zbishop -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 months ago*
I wish people would stop admiring Lincoln so much. A lot happened during his time and he did amazing drastic things and let's face facts here. Going to war with your own country is the #1 thing that can do wrong. As far as the emancipation goes it was all meaningless really. The main reason he did that was to make the south seem like a bunch of slavedrivers to the europeans so they wouldn't help.
[–]itsbrytonladies -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
When I do well, I feel good. When I do badly, I feel bad. That's my religion.
-Abraham Lincoln
FTFMe
[–]logifal -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
Hey, he said he has religion. Why are you guys not making fun of abe?
[–]axdirkadirka -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
When are we going to get a president like this again?
[–]Renegade86 -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
It's too bad his party has gone so far from this in the past 150 years
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
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