"How is tax a punishment?"

It's a punishment when you make the people successful people pay 90% in taxes, THAT is a punishment. I live in Norway and here we have progressive taxing, and thats fine, but suggesting taxing 90% is just silly and will do no good for the society.

"False. You've made two claims thus far. The first is that people who earn >1m (annually) generally work harder than those earning 50k. What about the Nurses who work long shifts in arduous conditions? What about Store managers who work 12 hour days and earn little more than cashiers? What about waiting staff who earn sweet fuck all in your land of free and impoverished, home of the brave and manipulated? Your claim that executive types work harder than anyone else is laughably absurd."

Based on the amount of hours, nurses make earn as good as engineers here. And engineers have a starting salary of little under 100 000 dollars. Sure, they work hard hours, and I'm not saying earning a lot of money equals working hardere than the blue collar guys. There will always be hard jobs who doesn't pay good, but the average guy doesn't work as hard as the guy who works his way up to become wealthy. That often means sacrificing a lot and working terribly hard weeks for years. If they then, at age 40+ doesn't work as hard as they used to, they have still earned their money. Most people don't work their asses off, most rich people have.

"Bernie Madoff was financially successful"

Bernie Madoff was a successful criminal and obviously not relevant to the my use of the word successful. Unless you are saying that all rich guys working on wall street should be taxed hard because they might be criminals?

"But what is their value? Nothing. All of these things are only detrimental to society and offer nothing of value, yet they are profitable. Cigarettes are profitable. Derivative trading can be profitable. Is this the success you want to promote? You want to live in a country where money=respect? If you do not earn >1m, you're a fucking loser, is what you would have us believe."

This is crazy and you have clearly entered a state of mind where I am some kind of asshole rich guy. Their value is entertainment for the masses, the masses normally don't like high quality entertainment and thats how it will always be. It's like claiming football has no value, but it does. It provides entertainment, and people want/need entertainment to be happy. It's part of our nature. It's not about promoting derivative trading, you are talking like all jobs making a person earn good money has no value and this has nothing to do with money=status. A society where everyone is the middle class because you can't handle people earning more/less? Is that what you want, a society that keeps everyone making good money down, just because? It's important to have a fair society. How is it fair that if a guy starts a business, people love it and the guy earns good money, then he should be punished so he won't make TOO much, because that can make the 'average guy' feel bad? basically making everyone earning more than 1m a loser, great.

" You probably don't think it's worth getting out of bed in the morning for a 300k salary. Why start a business when any income I make over 300k is taxed at 50%, you ask. I mean, that's only 6 times the income of an ordinary person, but hell, that's not enough for you. Fuck innovation, fuck creativity, If I can't make a sweet billion or two what's the point? Here's the thing. You don't need that much money to be successful and happy, and nobody deserves that much money. "

Oh jeez. Here we go again with the stereotype. You have a picture of me as the rich capitalistic asshole. I'm a normal guy idiot, focus on the case. What you are doing now, and your whole text is showing it, is starting to make arguments based on emotions. I don't care about your emotions. I'm not rich, and I don't care if it makes you feel bad that there are rich assholes among the rich.

"Why start a business when any income I make over 300k is taxed at 50%, you ask. "

Nope, I ask why start a business when any high income I make is taxed at 90%. Why are you twisting my words, pretending I write something I do not write? You clearly have a personal agenda and this is actually the way Bill O'reilly argues, on emotions not logic.

"Fuck innovation, fuck creativity, If I can't make a sweet billion or two what's the point? Here's the thing. You don't need that much money to be successful and happy, and nobody deserves that much money."

Ah, what a moron you are turning into. How do you expect people to discuss with you when you're acting like this? What a behavior. Great innovation and creativity combined with HARD work often makes good money, and that money is deserved. I'm not saying you need much money to be happy, what I am saying is that if you earn that money, you have as much right to it as the lazy guy who works half the amount of time and earn half the amount of money.

"and nobody deserves that much money"

Look at this, are you fucking serious? Of course they do. Sure, people who fuck others over like they have been doing on wall street doesn't deserve it, but that is not the case. If you have made a product, lets say windows, then you have earned the money that this product will get you.

"You seem like the type of person who stays awake at night crying that Beyonce and Jay-Z lost a couple of million to piracy, and now they have to make do with their countless millions, all the while not giving a fuck about all the other struggling, yet equally talented artists out there."

Here we go again with the emotions, stereotyping and asshole behavior. I don't give a shit of Jay-Z lose a couple of millions to piracy, piracy is good. Tho this has nothing to do with piracy and is just a idiotic attack on me personally, way to go!

"Cry me a fucking river over the fact you can only afford one Ferrari this year". No, it's not caring about money, its about fairness and not punishment. What you want to do is to keep people making good money down. What a retarded way to think the society should be driven, hold people down so they don't make too much. Just tax the shit out of them so they won't be able to harvest the success of their businesses. You are one little angry communist aren't you.

"Your fundamental claim that high taxes kills incentive requires that ~300k is not a fuckload of money"

My claim is based on statistics, evidence, knowledge of how the society works. That is all. I do not care for helping rich guys out, I care for having the society work in a good way, and punishing people with extreme taxes is not good for the society. If you want to know why, go to the homepage of The Economist and search for the aricle "Hunting the Rich".

"Why would I have any respect for someone who insists on the right to hoard wealth without limitation or concern for societal wellbeing"

Oh you should take a trip to Norway and see how much the rich are contributing the society. Probably much more than in your country, where are you from? Funny that you assume I am an american, so much you resemble one.

" The fact that you think the money someone makes is a better indicator of success and worth than the actual work someone does disgusts me."

Here we go being and idiot again. A successful business is one that makes good money, thats one of the usual ways to define success. I've never said anything about money being more worth than someones actual work or worth, again with the silly presumptions.

Success may refer to: - a level of social status - achievement of an objective (goal) - the opposite of failure

Success is to each his own, so what? Is it not success to make a product that sell good? Of course it is.

" I understand that Americans have been raised in a culture that worships money above all else and assume that all financial success is earned. Personally, I prefer to judge people on their own merits."

I do the same, I don't judge based on money, but that is one thing that can make someone successful. I'm raised in the richest country on earth (based on how much each person earn) and here it's the opposite of America, money is not everything at all.

" You can tell me how proud you are of having the 'liberty' to let 50,000 of your fellow citizens die needlessly every year because your failure to instate what is a basic human right in any civilised and ethical society; universal health care."

And again you make a fool out of yourself. You forgot I am in fact norwegian and live in a society where everyone gets free healthcare, free school, and everyone gets every human rights possible. Nice try.

"Meanwhile, I'll just be over here thinking about how I can further contribute something of value to society, while you seek to leech maximum wealth from others in a self-deluded quest for what your corporate media has convinced you is success, much like a cancer consuming its host until nothing is left, and both are left to die."

Again, hostil ridiculous hatred who have nothing to do with me or what we are discussing. Funny thing is, if you are able to contribute to the society in a great way, its a high risk you will also make good money while doing it.

"Enjoy your nation's position in the global drivers seat while it lasts, because as long as you continue to clutch to your superstition and consumerism while others seek scientific development and innovation, it is sure not to last much longer."

Oh I'll enjoy my nations free healthcare, free schools, welfare etc.

Hah, scientific development and innovation. How you manage to think America is not one of the most innovativ and scientific nations on earth baffles me. Although they are on the way down, they still are the biggest attraction for intellectual capacities with their schools. Surely thats changing, but you let once again you're silly childish hate getting in the way.

Grow up.