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all 83 comments

[–]zeroempathy 20 points21 points ago

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I want to see one of those for how religion has evolved since the dawn of time.

[–]cykloid 31 points32 points ago

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[–]JimPick 3 points4 points ago

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Looks like a game of RISK.

[–]doom_bagel 3 points4 points ago

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More like the little show after a game of Civ III where they show you how the nations grew

[–]skeptic11 2 points3 points ago

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That shows Judaism as non-existent for 500 years before the birth of Christianity. That can't be accurate, can it?

[–]Embroz 6 points7 points ago

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It was the Diaspora. Before that, Judaism was the religion of Israel. After the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed, the Jewish people lacked any true area of influence. The Jewish people were scattered to the surrounding countries but the largest population was in Babylon because they were more tolerant of the Jewish religion than other places. It was during this time that the importance of Rabbinic led worship became especially important. Before this, it was thought that proper worship only took place at a temple, but after the Diaspora it was accepted that reading, learning, and praying could occur anywhere that there was 3 Jewish adult males (over the age of 13) and a complete Torah.

Sorry if any of this is incorrect. I am typing this from memory from a class I took last semester.

[–]ZeroAccountability 0 points1 point ago

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I think it was more that it wasn't very widespread and didn't really control (er was present in?) a lot of territory.

[–]doom_bagel 0 points1 point ago

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They were never the majority anywhere until Israel was founded

[–]smokinDND 0 points1 point ago

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In Babylonian times they were always considered like a sect, they were different jewish groups and they pretty much kept to themselves. They were pretty much outcasts in the cities. sometimes they would come in in masses and do like a pilgrimage through the cities. stay a while for business then move on. They were different types, some where more tradesmen between cities, other pure fanatic, superstitious sects.

[–]Wxnzxn 2 points3 points ago

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It's OK, but I really would have liked it with all religions considered. At least one category for aristocratic Polytheism, like the Greek, Roman and Norse myths. Egyptian and Persian religions also merit a categroy of their own. And maybe also one for Animism, Shamanism and the likes.

We know those religions certainly weren't spread through peace and love. This just makes it seem the main religions of today filled a void, when they of course replaced other religions that were there before. I mean, this affects us even today - without it we wouldn't even have christmas, easter and whatnot.

But for the sake of simplicity, it is still pretty good.

[–]phys1cs 1 point2 points ago

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Sikhism too - it's bigger than Judaism AFAIK.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Almost 10 million followers larger

[–]chuckfinley31 0 points1 point ago

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Thank you so much dude! I'm going to spend so much time on this website.

[–]billyup 11 points12 points ago

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I can instruct you on how to make one. Take a pen and a piece of paper, then draw 1 straight line. Now that the pen and stab yourself with it.

[–]Likes_Your_Name 12 points13 points ago

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I don't think that works.... I seem to be bleeding uncontrollably from my chest...

[–]writesomethingwitty 3 points4 points ago

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Don't worry, that's just the devil leaving your body. You'll be fine.

[–]Puschkin 2 points3 points ago

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That.

[–]see0red 27 points28 points ago

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The outer edge of the graph can also be labeled "mass extinction".

[–]studmuffffffin 6 points7 points ago

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Isn't the outer edge now?

[–]Greasy_Doug 18 points19 points ago

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Yes it is. The background rate of extinction is roughly 10 species per year. The current rate of extinction is about 17,000 species per year. This makes current day potentially the worst mass extinction event, but it is taking place over a longer period of time than others.

So please don't downvote see0red

[–]aroomacanvas 1 point2 points ago

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Oh I thought he was just making an apocalypse joke but that's actually pretty interesting. Do you have a source?

[–]Greasy_Doug 1 point2 points ago*

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I will try and get a source for you this is just from my recent lectures and text books.

EDIT: Source, actually decided to put this up, arguing against the claim I made, still up for hot debate. Sorry I couldn't get a digital copy of the whole journal, hopefully the abstract will do.

For 30 years some have suggested that extinctions through tropical forest loss are occurring at a rate of up to 100 species a day

For those that don't want to do the maths that is over double the extinction rate I mentioned.

[–]swaniefrmreddeer 6 points7 points ago

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My brother in law was contracted to teach evolution at the Christian school here. The government requires the teaching of evolution, but none of the staff would teach it. He's an atheist too.

[–]TheSarahj 6 points7 points ago

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The government requires the teaching of evolution

TIL... I graduated from a public high school in '06 without having learned a thing about evolution :( I don't even recall finding a section in our texts about it.

[–]PJL 1 point2 points ago

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Public high school where (Country + State/Province... no need to give away a city/school)? Did you have a biology class?

[–]TheSarahj 2 points3 points ago

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I did, though I opted not to take any sciences in my final year. This was in Southwestern Ontario, in a school known for its academics no less. Now that I think about it, I did learn about evolution in class, but it came from an introductory anthropology class.

[–]WhitePostIt 2 points3 points ago

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The "opted not to take any sciences" part is just a tad bit crucial to the story. I didn't opt out of science courses, and I learned plenty about evolution. And, I'm in Texas, go figure.

[–]ZeroAccountability 0 points1 point ago

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This, in the Ontario curriculum they don't start it until grade 11 biology which is an elective, which is when I learned it because I decided to, you know, learn about things in science.

[–]WhitePostIt 0 points1 point ago

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Ah. Biology was a requirement in my school, but they teach Evolution in a class called Planet Earth, which is also required. It was one of the easiest topics of the class though, because I read about evolution on my own years ago.

[–]TheSarahj 0 points1 point ago

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I opted out of it for my final year because I took the mandatory two years plus an additional course in bio in grade 11. If the gov't truly made teaching evolution mandatory, then you'd think they would teach it before students have the chance to opt out...

[–]Fedcom 1 point2 points ago

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Well you chose not to take science (not that that's a bad thing!) so you can't blame the school for not teaching it to you... :P

[–]TheSarahj 0 points1 point ago

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Well, the thing is, when I hear the government makes it mandatory for them to teach it, I'd think they would get it in before students have the option of choosing other courses. Science is only required in grades 9 and 10 where I'm from. Anything beyond that is optional.

[–]jared1981 0 points1 point ago

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They don't teach it in middle school?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Viandroto 1 point2 points ago

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Isn't it great you don't have to be executed anymore for stuff like this?

[–]kent_eh 2 points3 points ago

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At least not in most countries.

[–]courier1009 2 points3 points ago

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I wrote a report at catholic school in 4th grade about the evolution of man. Whooo Hoooo!!! Chicken Dance!!!! They asked me where I had found the information in my report, mt answer was umm.... "The Library", I then had me point out the books which were then destroyed. I do have to give Fr. Phillman props for defending me, and to Sr. Mary Theran, I'll see you in hell, except I'll be in the fun part....

[–]PJL 4 points5 points ago

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I'd be interested if there's actually data behind this -- I'll of course agree with the concept, I'm just curious if those terminated lines all have a corresponding (named, known) species, or if this is just generated randomly to look like it should if it were an actual record.

Also, what were "mammal-like reptiles" -- were they mostly reptiles but had some mammalian features (hair, live birth, or warm blood?) or are they defined more by their behavior or something?

[–]Vietoris 1 point2 points ago

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First on the mammal-like reptile, look at Therapsida and Pelycosaurs for just a few examples.

Now for the data behind the tree. I don't know if you are talking about this particular tree given by OP, or if you speak of more general phylogenic trees ? Probably this one is more or less randomly generated for the little terminated lines in the middle of the tree. However, you can get a much much more precise and accurate tree than that. With all known species on earth, this would be a huge tree (there is more than a million described species of insects. Meaning they all have a name, and we know their place in the tree.) And yes, there is a lot of data. Really a lot.

[–]jared1981 0 points1 point ago

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I'm sure it could be proven with genetic tests and fossil records, and a rough estimate of when species split off.

[–]jrdepalma 2 points3 points ago

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I love it, is there a name for this type of chart? I am having a hard time getting my parents on to talkorigins.org. I feel like if i slap this chart down on the table and start talking about it they may listen. They won't go on the website because there is too much, stuff, for lack of a better word.

[–]eriktheguy 1 point2 points ago

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In the most general sense, it is a 'phylogenetic tree'. The huge ones that try to cover all life on earth are generally called a 'tree of life'. Since 'tree of life' is associated with other ideas, try searching for http://www.google.ca/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1599&bih=759&q=phylogenetic+tree+of+life&gbv=2&oq=phylogenetic+tree+of+life&aq=f&aqi=g2g-m1g-S1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=2717l7751l0l7929l27l27l1l8l8l1l147l1497l13.4l17l0

[–]redjelly3 0 points1 point ago

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To add onto that, the chart in the original post is more aimed towards visuals than accuracy. As far as I know, the Wose/Pace "3 domains" type trees are the most accurate but will probably not help you out. The length of each branch represents genetic differentiation. Also, Norm Pace often wears a tee-shirt with his tree.

[–]bassmusic6 1 point2 points ago

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that's how we do

[–]chemchik 1 point2 points ago

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This is beautiful. Who wants to make a poster?

[–]kent_eh 0 points1 point ago

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They are available at the URL that's in the corner of the graphic:

http://evogeneao.com/store.html

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I went to catholic highschool and elementary school in ontario, east of ottawa, very close to the Quebec border, so it was very Catholic. I was taught evolution in Grade 9 biology class I believe it was. I still had to go to mass in the library or gym, and we even had school wide feild trips to anti-choice rally's. But creationism was never taught as a science, they kept that shit in religion class, in fact in ontario grade 11 religion is a world religion course, they cover the beliefs of Hindu, Muslim, sikh's, buddhism, etc, and in Grade 12 they turn it into a philosophy based course that studies ethics and morality, using some Christian moral philosophers as the basis, kant, st. Thomas Aquineas, and even Aristotle.

[–]ZFanatic 1 point2 points ago

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It's funny because even as an Atheist and Biologist, I still sometimes have some trouble grasping the idea that we could come out of simple bacteria.

But diagrams like that just go to show all the tiny baby-steps that don't come intuitively.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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just looked at this for a half hour lol now I know the lineage of evolution

[–]Nestorow 1 point2 points ago

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Ive seen this picture thrown around alot but i never did biology so never had it explained. Con someone enlighten me?

[–]zetim 1 point2 points ago

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It's a visualization of how everything relates back to one-ish ancestors. The closer to the center you are the further back in time you go and the more related things are since the bush hasn't expanded as much. Each branch denotes major evolutionary changes and the short stubs that just end are examples of species that came around and then died out. Of course this the number of branches here is not a direct correlation to the total number of species that have existed because if an illustrator tried to do that it wouldn't show up on your monitor at the resolution you're seeing. So it's just a simplified visualization.

[–]Bewilderforce 0 points1 point ago

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We weren't explicitly taught evolution in school where I am (Manitoba). It was more given a nod and assumed to be a given in most cases. The only few times I heard it mentioned explicitly were a few times in Elementary by excited classmates talking about dinosaurs evolving into birds of prey (two of the awesome-est animals ever) and a few times in highschool when it was mentioned as part of the definition of biological life. It was also mentioned a few times when our most awesome chemistry teacher decided that tuesdays were to be TED tuesdays and we ended up finding a lecture on chemical self replicators.

[–]kent_eh 0 points1 point ago

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also in Manitoba, I don't remember much depth on evolution other than that it exists, and explains how stuff happened. But this was over 25 years ago, so things are probably different today.

We had to take 2 sciences, and I chose physics and chem, so it's possible the biology classes spent more time on it.

I do remember that our physics teacher spent a full week making us understand critical thinking. And he was a lay pastor in his church, so pretty religious. (but never in the classroom)

My 11 year old son did answer some questions astutely in class regarding natural selection. When the teacher talked to him about it, he offered to bring in the National Geographic article he read about it. The teacher shared that article with the class.

Yay

[–]TheSilverFalcon 0 points1 point ago

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So beautiful! <3

[–]jared1981 0 points1 point ago

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The Tree of Life project has more detailed information.

[–]WhitePostIt 0 points1 point ago

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ToLP is a good resource, but the visuals are somewhat less inspiring. A big poster like the one posted is what gets kids' imagination.

[–]jared1981 0 points1 point ago

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Oh, no doubt, I was just saying that if someone wanted more info, they could visit ToLP.

[–]atheist_verd 0 points1 point ago

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Where can I get a poster of this?

[–]WhitePostIt 0 points1 point ago

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That is beautiful. I want a poster.

[–]kent_eh 0 points1 point ago

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[–]WhitePostIt 0 points1 point ago

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$48 bucks. I can take the image, go to Office Depot, pay $5 and get a decent print.

$48 bucks.

[–]psyceratopSB 0 points1 point ago

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I can see only kiwi!

[–]Fordiman 0 points1 point ago

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That is a beautiful piece of infographics.

[–]aazav 0 points1 point ago

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Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[–]rogueencampment 0 points1 point ago

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how arrogant, putting the humans on the very end of the tree

[–]chasegreist 0 points1 point ago

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Damn Canadians...

[–]BriskyPie 0 points1 point ago

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I went to a Christian high school and it was rad (Northern IL, USA). We read Nietzsche in my junior year religion class.

My senior year class though, fuck that shit. Teacher was awful.

[–]veritasius 0 points1 point ago

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Awesome chart, should be mandatory that all world citizens view it

[–]bananasdoom 0 points1 point ago

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religion and science can co exist but sooner or later one will win out over the other, we just have to make sure that the real one wins

[–]AlexDeLarge4848 0 points1 point ago

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If you learned that in high school...well, I better go back, and take classes there.

[–]doom_bagel 0 points1 point ago

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My public school doesn't even teach it that well. We get a whole lecture first about how the school is not trying to convert us or tell us that what we believe is wrong.

[–]bananasdoom 0 points1 point ago

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in Australia private Christan schools make "religious studies" a compulsory subject and regularly teach creationism/intelligent design but have no obligation to teach evolution unless the student takes biology

[–]EmpRupus 0 points1 point ago

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[–]daveburnt 0 points1 point ago

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I want to see religious schools be privately funded. Not taking public money with one hand, begging for donations with the other and end up being the best funded schools in town with the best equipment and on-site daycare 'cause they make up the majority of teen pregnancies in town. Meanwhile the public schools have to be underfunded so they can have one school on par with the catholic ones and the rest, well, there's a reason it's called the rest.

[–]mnemonie 0 points1 point ago

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It's pretty, but so animal-centric. Surely there is more diversity in plants and bacteria than depicted?

[–]apopheniac1989 0 points1 point ago

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Was it a Catholic school? If so, that's probably why. Catholic schools teach evolution.

Here's an upvote for the content of the image. Probably my favorite tree of life out there.

[–]freedomtarian 0 points1 point ago

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I went to a Catholic highschool and in grade 11 we watched lots of videos. The first video in the first week of the semester we saw "Quest for Fire". The Catholic Church has already accepted evolution as a fact of life. It's the cranks and morons who reject it.

[–]Crownowa 0 points1 point ago

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Was it a public Catholic school? A lot of them around me have better programs than the normal public schools >.>

[–]godlessatheist 0 points1 point ago

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So is this an actual gif?

[–]Some_Lurker_Guy 5 points6 points ago

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I assume you're wondering why it isn't moving. If that's the case, gifs don't always have to be animated. They're actually smaller in size sometimes than jpgs, and in that case are better to use.

[–]PJL 2 points3 points ago

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Adding on to that, for other people who may find information about gif vs jpeg interesting...

If an image uses a few limited colors, gifs are far better than jpegs -- a jpg file will end up with these weird squiggly discolorations (artifacting), especially near color borders. This is an effect of the compression algorithm jpgs use to reduce file size. jpgs work much better than gifs on things like photos, which have a wide range of colors.

[–]knupauger -4 points-3 points ago

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See, religion and science can exist side by side. It doesn't have to be either religion or atheism, and religion doesn't have to be the stuff about "god created the world in six days" and "Jesus said this, Jesus said that, so do it and stop thinking for yourself!"

P.S.: Don't get me wrong, I reject any form of religion since I think that people got it terribly wrong, even in Europe.

[–]ZeroAccountability 1 point2 points ago

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See, religion and science can exist side by side.

No. The two are exact polar opposites, one operates strictly on observable fact and data while the other spits in the face of that, requiring only and nothing but blind belief. I'm tired of people trying to marry the two, keep religion the fuck out of science, it's a complete insult to all of those who dedicate their lives to it.

...religion doesn't have to be the stuff about [religious stuff]

What do you suggest religion be about then? What you listed is EXACTLY what religion is about. People didn't get religion wrong, they did it just the way it's supposed to play out, it's just a really shitty thing when done properly.

[–]knupauger 0 points1 point ago

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Well, then maybe the interpretation of religion I grew up with cannot be described as religion. Actually that's something I tell may fellow countrymen, when they claim, that Christianity, other than the Islam, is compatible with democratic values. I usually answer "No, it is not! We've just removed everything from our interpretation of Christianity, that don't do well with democratic values, and replaced it with scientific fact and common sense. If we would have a more strict and traditional interpretation of our religion, we would have no democracy as well!".

However, here, where I live and grew up, religion usually isn't mixed up with science and politics. There surely are people, who believe in god as a creator and who consult their "handbook" instead of using their brains and scientific fact, when it comes to matters like homosexuality or abortion. But they usually keep it private and don't interfere with education, scientific fact and politics. It's still not perfect though. While children receive an education free of religious attempts to explain the world we live in, religion is still thaught at schools. In a more theoretical and scientific approach (e.g. history of Christianity), but I still do not like it, that they are such classes, which is why I switched to philosophy as soon as I had the chance to. And I'd prefer to get rid religions like Christianity or Islam, mainly because they rely on religious literature that mislead people and, in worst cases, make them hate and oppress other people or even fight them in wars - which is surely not what god had in mind with her creation. Which is strange, isn't it? All day long the hardcore-Christians talk about altruism and equality and god loves everyone - until you are gay.

What I suggest religion to be about? Maybe a god, that is not the creator of the world, nor does he/she/it judge about the world. People should not attach human values to him/her/it, nor should they try to explain him/her/it with human concepts. As soon as they do, they start to exploit him/her/it to enforce their values on other people. This might be the point were any kind of religion becomes impossible because people will always try to enforce values through their religion. While it can be good thing, if these teachings are things like equality and altruism, sooner or later it will be contaminated with ideas like "Being gay is unnatural and should be abolished!". While we could maybe create a "perfect" religion from scratch, it won't work in reality. And apart from that scientific fact, common sense, education and experience should be enough to "teach" people values like altruism or equality. In a perfect world there world be no religions because we would need no religions. And maybe you are right. Maybe "we", here where I live, just don't do it properly. Which makes me wonder, if creationists see us as their "fallen brothers". I hope they pray for our souls ;-)