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My response when a theist ask me "what if your wrong" (i.imgur.com)
submitted 6 months ago by orteps
[–]jenkins567[] 15 points16 points17 points 6 months ago
Somebody needs to change this image so that the quote is no longer attributed to Marcus Aurelius. At least if it's going to be reposted all the time (which I wouldn't mind, I love this quote), it would do well to be correctly quoted.
[–]samisbond 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
http://i.imgur.com/Hxjra.png
Took a couple hours in photoshop.
[–]norisu 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Do we know who actually quoted it, though?
[–]samisbond 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago*
There's this:
"Since it is possible that thou mayest depart from life this very moment, regulate every act and thought accordingly. But to go away from among men, if there are gods, is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve thee in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a universe devoid of gods or devoid of Providence?" - Meditations, Book II
but it's not the same thing. As far as I know the above quote is simply fabricated. I simply quote is as 'Anonymous (misattributed to Marcus Aurelius)'
[–]thedufer 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
From what I've seen, it appears to be a mistranslation of that passage.
[–]TooMuchTony 14 points15 points16 points 6 months ago
They use the wrong your when they speak? These theists are worse than I thought.
[–]Deathfire138 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
So um... 'Atheists' Wager' anyone?
[–]yesitsrob 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
My response would be:
you're*
[–]apache_alfredo 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
We're pretty sure this is a mis-attributed quote, right? We are better than this.
[–]DoubleXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
No, this is Patrick.
[–]tahackzors 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
amazing quote :)
[–]ThatLuckyBear 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Thanks for this. I love it, regardless of the original source.
[–]stan542 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
I realize that I'm being selfish, but if you know god exists (as the quote assumes), and you know there is an afterlife, it seems like there is more to be discussed. It raises a disputable ethical question, but this quote just glosses over it. Heaven poses an infinite good. I wouldn't be so quick to reject that because the arbiter is unjust.
I would actually really appreciate other people's thoughts on this.
I reply with another quote:
"My wager says that you should in all cases wager on reason and accept the logical consequence, which in this case is atheism. If there's no god, you're correct; if there's an indifferent god, you won't suffer; if there's a just god, you have nothing to fear from the honest use of your reason; and if there's an unjust god, you have much to fear but so does the Christian." - George H. Smith
If the arbiter is unjust, I do not trust that heaven is a paradise.
If we do take it one step further as perhaps you're suggesting and say there is a heaven that is paradise (and perhaps a hell that is torture) and amoral or even moral acts will prevent you from entering and knew this to be undeniable fact than would you live your life accordingly? I'd like to think I could stand up to a god but I doubt it. I don't think I'd be able to stand up for what is right if I knew I was going to suffer in eternal hellfire for it.
I can't imagine the possibility though nor am I sure there can be a truly infinite good when its rules are so greatly unjust. So with the current information we have, I'd wager on reality.
Given the current information, I completely agree.
I just feel like too many quotes on /r/atheism are not subject to scrutiny as a result of confirmation bias.
As most other atheists, I value reason and skepticism. It is why I'm an atheist. However, we must apply skepticism to statements that affirm our values as well.
I like your way of putting it: "I'd like to think I could stand up to a god but I doubt it. I don't think I'd be able to stand up for what is right if I knew I was going to suffer in eternal hellfire for it."
This counter argument to pascal's wager goes too far, and isn't a devastating reply to pascal's wager as OP seems to imply. All I mean to point out is that there are problems if you postulate a God in order to reject Pascal's Wager.
I prefer Dawkin's response to it, that an omniscient God would know that your faith is based in bet-hedging, and wouldn't truly take you as one of his sons/daughters in heaven.
[–]Jayda5th 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Ehh... I would much rather use this response when asked if you're wrong. Of course they'll use the bible as the source of information but that's circular logic so it should be easy to defeat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg
[–]Demosius 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
Perhaps my favourite quote. =)
[–]galaxian84 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago
My response would be "What if my wrong what?"
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
[–]jenkins567[
] 15 points16 points17 points ago
[–]samisbond 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]norisu 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]samisbond 1 point2 points3 points ago*
[–]thedufer 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]TooMuchTony 14 points15 points16 points ago
[–]Deathfire138 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]yesitsrob 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]apache_alfredo 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]DoubleXX 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]tahackzors 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]ThatLuckyBear 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]stan542 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]samisbond 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]stan542 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Jayda5th 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Demosius 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]galaxian84 0 points1 point2 points ago