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Voting runs from September 6-19
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Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by Socially Awkward Penguin (i.imgur.com)
submitted 7 months ago by HoppyMcScragg
[–]Retortoise 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Great now I have to re-examine "malicious" social situations in my life and also imagine who thinks I'm malicious on account of my awkwardness.
[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Just yesterday someone was opening a door and I kinda just walked through in front of them. They paused long enough that it wasn't clear if they were holding it for me or not, but it was pretty awkward and I probably seemed like a dick. Just SAPing every day...
[–]JesusLives 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Why would you throw away a book, man? Any book.
[–]HoppyMcScragg[S] 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
Because it's a cheaply produced copy* of the most published book on Earth, you don't want it, it has no resale value, and you don't want to figure out what to do with it?
(*When I've seen people hand out Bibles anyway, they've been pretty cheaply made.)
[–]nolsen01 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
The person who was actually there felt that they had reason to believe that they knew the man was watching them as they threw them away. People are mean, rude and inconsiderate - especially when it comes to controversial topics like religion and politics.
Eyewitness testimony and induction FTW.
[–]HoppyMcScragg[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
You are still making an assumption that they meant it maliciously. It's impossible to say from that post if they did or not. It could be that they were too sheepish to not take them when he was holding them out right in front of them, and their desire to get rid of the books overwhelmed their desire to please a stranger once they were a few steps away.
Have you never met someone handing something out and accepted it, figuring you can throw it out once you get a chance?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
/r/atheism : Won't believe in the bible, but will defend a Facebook anecdote because it made them sad and stuff.
[–]nolsen01 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago*
The Bible makes claims about people walking out of their graves, walking on water and being the child of God. The facebook anecdote makes claims about people being malicious. Clearly one is more believable than the other.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Haha, well put!
[–]nolsen01 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago*
Of course its possible - lots of things are possible. We don't come to conclusions based on what is possible, we use reason and evidence. In this case, the eyewitness who was there felt that they did it maliciously. This is not an incredible claim. We're not talking about somebody who claimed to see a dead person walking around. We're talking about somebody who saw something that probably happens everyday.
Lets not be so quick to cast into doubt any claims that some skeptics of religion may be rude, mocking or vicious. It happens all the time. I see it all the time. Lets make an effort to be easier to get along with. Lets acknowledge when people on our side are rude.
edit: Of course, that doesn't mean to let religious people push you around. We have every right to articulate our (non)beliefs though some religious people may make you think otherwise.
[–]HoppyMcScragg[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
the eyewitness who was there felt that they did it maliciously
She thought they were being disrespectful. That's clear. It wasn't clear she thought they were malicious.
The subject line I used is a bastardization of an old saying, "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." I think we would all do well to give people the benefit of the doubt more. If it's not clear someone is doing something to be mean, you'd do well not to jump to that conclusion.
(OK, so it's more important to keep this attitude when you're actually dealing with people, as opposed to when you're discussing Facebook screenshots that talk about people that may or may not even actually exist. Ha. But still, as a general rule...)
Then these girls walk 10 feet, look back at him, KNOW[sic] he's looking at them, and all of them throw all 4 of the bibles in the trash can, and walk off.
While the old saying is noble, there is point at which it becomes naive. At some point we have to yield to the evidence at hand. In this case, it is clear she thought they were malicious.
Sorry if it sounds naive to you if I think people are assuming the worst from a vague story and overreacting with anger.
Read what you quoted. The fact that they know the man is watching does not mean they did it with the intention of being mean.
Maybe they were timid 10-year-old girls who took the Bibles because they wanted to get away from the strange old man standing in front of them, holding them out right in front of their chests. As soon as they start walking away, they want to ditch these books. They see the trash can and go to pitch them. They stop and turn, hoping he's not looking. He is. He already knows now that they have no intention of keeping them because he sees what they're about to do. They awkwardly drop them in and hightail it out of there.
I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm saying that is completely consistent with the story as written. A group of 18 year-old atheist bitches who laughed at the man as they left is also consistent with the story as written. I'm saying you don't always have to assume the worst about people's motivations.
You are making the same mistake many creationists make. Possibility does not imply plausibility. There are an infinite amount of possibilities but there is one most plausible conclusion.
This person saw the event, came home and wrote about, and didn't object to any of the comments made after writing the sentence they wrote above.
Its possible that they didn't feel the girls were malicious. Its possible that aliens inhabited her body and changed her mind. Its possible, but not plausible.
Well have fun rushing to judgement about everyone's motives.
Creationism? Ha! Well then you are like the theist who believes in God because they want to know how the world came about and they don't consider "I don't know" to be an acceptable answer.
There is no need to get defensive.
[–]jjlegospidey 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Did this at my school but I made sure he saw me do it
[–]TodTheTyrant 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
you are misintepretting yesterdays story dude. I'm pretty sure those girls did that shit on purpose. I'm the biggest fuck christians person here but that was rough on a brotha...have some respect for the old (if dumb) man.
[–]Rekhtanebo 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
A facebook account is hardly reliable imo for a multitude of reasons.
The person watching may have interpreted the situation as malicious and wrote story with that prior in mind making story sound as if they were malicious.
The person may have religious background and expected to see any affront on holy book as being some degree more malicious than intended because she deems it as sacred, while others may asign it little value.
When telling a story, people tend to write the story in a way that makes it interesting which may include exaggerations and bending of the truth; if a story is not like this then the story can be deemed not worth writing or reading and would not have recieved attention, thus providing incentive for spicing it up or bending the truth a little in order to recieve attention.
There are many reasons the account provided in the original story could be wayyy off, so many details could have been changed, and in general, I honestly think the SAP explanation is more likely to be true.
[–]DaySeeMeTrollin 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
I normally walk on auto pilot so when someone gives me something i take it without thinking. If it was religious material I would abruptly stop, crumple it, turn direction to the nearest trash can, and go on my way. I did it for teh lulz.
[–]jenniferwillow 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Insanity wolf would have taken the bible, set it on fire, then put the fire out by pissing on it, all in front of the old man.
[–]Thor_is_god 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
You got shy / asshole confusion, my friend.
[–]ScottFree37 -1 points0 points1 point 7 months ago
No no no. From the account given these girls were deliberately vicious not socially awkward. More than likely these girls are the elite of their social circles and are perpetrators of the kind of bullying that leads to teen suicides. This story made me hope there is a hell and there is a special place reserved for these cunts.
[–]HoppyMcScragg[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
No, it's not clear that the girls were "deliberately vicious." The writer was sad and thought they were disrespectful. She did actually use the word "awkward" to describe them. It's reading between the lines to assume they did it maliciously.
You could be right, I just couldn't help but think of them as SAPs when I read it.
ok let's look at use of the word awkward. now think of some immature girls who hatch a malicious and thoughtless prank. How do you think they might be carrying themselves as they implement this? They might seem to a little awkward as they walk together, ensuring that their actions are still being affirmed by their peers. The part that confirmed it for me was when they apparently looked straight at this man and threw the bibles in the bin. they walked up to him. it's not like he approached them, so to me this seems like a deliberately malicious premeditated act. Prank or not this was a cruel thing to do to a person. You're right that I'm reading into this, but as a sociologist I can't help but do so. Your reading of it is an interesting perspective though, and realistically we are both relying on someone elses account so we'll never really know what the situation actually was.
[–]Keljhan 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I literally laughed out loud at this comment. Were you being sarcastic? If not, reread this in a week, and think of who you sound like. Especially:
This story made me hope there is a hell and there is a special place reserved for these cunts.
Really?
[–]ScottFree37 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
no not sure what I sound like to you, but i will say, that line was more of an analogy. I did find it personally amusing to use that particular analogy in R/Atheism. I still stand by my reading of the situation and was really just expressing my disdain at what, from all the information given by the OP, was an extremely malicious and premeditated act to hurt another person. You don't agree that these girls acted with malicious intent?
I agree that they might have acted with malicious intent. My point was, after all of the /r/atheism hate about Jessica Ahlquist going to hell or being shot, or the thousands of other condemnations for atheists, gays, women, dogs, raccoons, etc., you decide to say something like that. You sound just like the religious fanatics that this subreddit so heatedly despises. It just amused me is all.
On the subject of whether or not they had malicious intent:
The most incriminating evidence I can see is this
...look back at him, KNOW he's watching them, and all of them throw ALL 4 bibles in a trash can....
While that seems pretty cut and dry malice, that is, technically, just Kendall's point of view. They may have looked back to see if he was watching, thought he wasn't, then throw them away. Clearly he was watching, as he later took the bibles out of the trash, but you can't be 100% sure they knew he was.
Also, Kendall made no approach nor comment to the man, which strikes me as odd. She didn't even mention picking up a bible from the man afterwards, which is what I think 90% of people would do, especially after contemplating it for 20 minutes. This sort of makes me think she may have embellished the story, adding in the part about the man taking the bibles out to strike her point home. But I have no idea. I tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, no matter how deserving of it they are.
Yeah it amused me too. But I do despise these type of people and for the record I would actually say that they probably weren't atheists, but i'll get to that. See below my post to the OP that where I have analysed some other actions that could point toward their motivations
It saved me from repeating. I think we agree on a couple of key points. With the information at hand, it seems like a deliberate act of cruelty that the teenage elite in America are renowned for. this is why I question whether or not they are atheists. from all I read here I find it unlikely that atheist would be "the popular crowd" and if my reading is correct this act has the hallmarks of cowardice and mob mentality are associated with them. I think if these girls were atheist trying to prove a point it would have been handled differently (much more talking). So this is just four people bullying one and doing it in a very cruel way. What he was doing was a mainly irrelevant (apart from that it could give us some insight into who he was as a person) and it was just an act inhumanity. And i think she didn't pick up a bible because the man walked away crushed after that. To me it was quite a sad story, But my hell comment was just to me an ironic way to express my disdain. I do find the analogy of a special place in hell terribly amusing.
[–]Keljhan 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
Lol, I like your description of atheists. "I think if these girls were atheist trying to prove a point it would have been handled differently (much more talking)." From what I've seen from reddit, this is so true it hurts. I don't know any other atheists IRL, so you seem legit to me. Thanks for the insight.
Really, you don't know any other atheists? wow that's amazing to me. Where are you from? I'm actually not an atheist. Richard Dawkins would call me a pantheist. it seems like the closest description to my beliefs. thanks for appreciating my insight. As a sociologist, I feel I have a unique perspective. Don't get me wrong, I won't always defend the actions or even the ascertains of atheists, but from the information given this seem more of an act of random cruelty than an ideological act of defiance.
Well, I don't think I know any other atheists, anyway. I'm in the East USA, in a fairly privileged area, for lack of a better description. I was brought up as a CEO christian (christmas easter only), and I only realized I was an atheist/agnostic (I really need to decide on one; the young me still hopes there's a god) about a year ago. We don't discuss religion around here much, so I never really had to think about it.
[–]ScottFree37 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Religion is really done very wrong in your country so I can understand the backlash. but you don't have to go one way or the other. I grew up catholic so I understand where your views are at the moment. You're probably starting to realise that the wise old god in the clouds sound way too improbable too be true, and you'd be right. I'd love to believe it but I just can't. The problem is that attitudes seem to just polarize in America and you're going to feel the need to choose a side eventually and I personally don't think the question is that black and white. Research some eastern religions. Taoism has got some really good aspects, which can give you a better way to question what the word god can actually mean. That doesn't mean you should completely renounce Christianity because it has some great ideas as well. At the end of the day learn all you can about religion and more importantly the way humans interpret and use it and always remember that no argument can conclusively say what occurs after we die. We'll know when we get there or we won't and we won't care. Find what makes most sense to you by reconciling what you learn from others, reading and what you experience. As an ex Christian I'd urge you to check out the movie dogma. It questions Christianity without trying to destroy it completely. Good luck with it.
Wow! Thanks for such an in-depth, honest, helpful reply. I almost wanted to quit reddit earlier because of some shit over in /r/politics, but you have restored my faith (pun intended).
[–]HoppyMcScragg[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago*
About the "teenage elite" -- they could have been teens. For all we know, they were 8 years old. It just says that they're girls.
They way you describe it is consistent with how it was written up. This is also consistent:
When I've seen people handing things out (brochures, Gideon's bibles, whatever) the people who are most successful (in terms of giving out the most) are the people who aren't timid about it. So, let's say there is a group of tween girls. They're walking down the street and this old man positions himself in front of the group, holding a small Bible right in front of the lead girl.
The girl doesn't know how to react, and doesn't want to talk to this stranger. He asks her to take the book and she does. He has several books ready in his other hand and quickly passes them out. The girls don't really know what to say, but they don't want to argue with him and they just take the books.
They continue walking away and are still struck by the oddness of the encounter. The lead girl doesn't know what to do with the book, but she spies a trash can right there and makes a beeline for it. The girls all reach out to chuck their unwanted items, and they pause and turn back around. He's watching them. What do they do? They're right there -- he already sees that they're going to ditch them. They take the easy course, drop them in the bin and hurry on their way.
It could be that they were 18 year old girls who wanted to be mean to an old man. It could be as I described. Both are consistent with how it was written up.
As I said elsewhere, the subject line I gave this post is based on an old saying, and it's one I agree with. We shouldn't jump to the conclusion that people are doing something just to be mean. Perhaps you are misreading the situation and they weren't doing it to be mean at all.
Yeah I agree i definitely could be misreading it. We'll never know what the real story is. You have a benefit of a doubt view and I tend to view people with suspicion so we read these events with our own pre-conceived notion of human behaviour. your account sounds plausible but in my view two factors don't add up. I know those zealots you are referring to and the way this man is described he doesn't seem like that type. Also Kendal states that the girls approached the man, so that is also inconsistent with the way you described it. Again we won't know, and we both seem to agree that each others accounts are plausible. I still believe my own reading is the more likely and stand by my disdain, but then you would believe the same thing about your position.
[–]lollerkeet 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
What kind of sociopath are you? There is no level of evil which would make me wish hell upon anyone.
read replies. but I am slightly sociopathic. Thanks for noticing.
[–]honeynoats -2 points-1 points0 points 7 months ago
What ScottFree37 said.
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