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Heroes of Newerth in a nutshell. (i.imgur.com)

submitted ago by middo

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[–]Fallacylolgrim 38 points39 points ago*

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Words fail to describe how uncomfortably accurate this is.

[–]Ruscour 27 points28 points ago

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He just won't give it up. He doesn't take your CS if you stay mid and try and tough it out, but he tries, just narrowly missing the creep so that dies an instant after he hits it so you can never last-hit it.

[–]Shaan/ShaanixSworn 18 points19 points ago

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Note that this will always happen, no matter which lane OJ goes to or what he plays. He will always miss lasthits so that no one gets them.

[–]kiddigudna 0 points1 point ago

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what does oj mean?

[–]Nerdz 5 points6 points ago

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Orange player

[–]xpinguxxpingux 2 points3 points ago

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OJ stands for Orange Juice. But in this instance it's just a reference to orange (Just elaborating on what Nerz said).

[–]Modern-Messiah -4 points-3 points ago

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The design of the lowest MMR (read: worst) player on the team being automatically orange is just another reason why the HoN community is so toxic. :(

[–]Fallacylolgrim 3 points4 points ago

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I disagree - the rating system is in place to determine where you stand in regards to the rest of the population. Logically, if you have the lowest MMR on the team, you're supposed to be the worst player, comparatively speaking; if you have the highest, the best.

It's not to say that I've never had an OJ/Brown surprise me and dominate, or that I've never been an OJ/Brown myself, but that's how the game is designed. Not to mention that, as far as I've experienced, it's maybe 1 in every 20 games where the rarity can be found.

You can't blame the community for reacting as the system clearly intends.

[–]Modern-Messiah -1 points0 points ago

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That's sort of my point. The system itself caters to the extreme elitist attitude that personifies the typical HoN player. Also, it's not just the way MMR is designed. The way in depth statistics are tracked and public to everyone caters to this exact same problem. I've have experiences where a player would flee from combat at the first sign of danger to preserve their precious K:DR when their presence could have turned the tide of battle in our favor.

You are right though, it was designed this way. However, that doesn't change the fact that it was a silly design choice by S2.

[–]SchwanzKafka 0 points1 point ago

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Except the guy that doesn't man up will still end up losing games, so who cares? (And if he consistently wins, then it turns out he had better judgement)

One of the few things that I totally agree with is that the final arbiter of placement should be wins vs losses - which is what MMR is. It's got problems adjusting to trends & compensating for high-grade bullshit (leavers, intentional feeders etc.), but I don't think it could be really done that much better.

(Maybe pay x silver for a placement match at +20/40/whatever MMR, with a color to denote that you're in your placement match. You win, you keep that - so you don't have to grind to have more interesting games. Might also make peoples attitudes towards losing MMR somewhat healthier.)

[–]ForeverAProletariat 0 points1 point ago

I've seen a lot of blue/pink that have high MMR but have no team play skills at all. They can mid pretty well but fail at everything else including map awareness and ability to not fight outnumbered.

[–]Modern-Messiah -1 points0 points ago

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I actually didn't really think about it that way. In regards to wins and losses. To be honest my experience with the MMR system is almost solely based upon queuing up with friends.

The issue is that the people I played with had a wide range of skill levels. Our MMRs ranged from 1300 to 1650 roughly (before the whole rebalancing of MMRs). Often the people who had the higher MMR would only lose 1 or 2 points for losing a match while the lower MMR players would lose somewhere like 20 points. This caused the higher MMR players to become overly concerned with maintaining a certain K:DR and less about whether or not we won the game.

Because of this I always said they should implement some sort of "Team MMR" system which basically gives you a new MMR for whenever you are playing with certain people. Essentially a system closer to what you see in StarCraft 2 where you get placed in a different league depending on who you are playing with.

[–]aterian 1 point2 points ago

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My experience queueing with friends is almost the exact opposite. We do worse on average and have more difficult games. My solo sub-account typically has the highest MMR. The reason is simple: when I play with friends (groups of 4 or 5), we're basically no better than 4 or 5 solo players with the exception that we don't rage at or troll each-other, and about half the time we bring some organization to the picking phase. However, it seems to me that many groups of four or five at our level bring a lot more to the table in terms of in-game organization or very well-organized draft plans.

That said, I like the idea of a "Team MMR". The only thing is, it should (also like Starcraft) start a new team at an average of their two seperate skill ratings, and quickly place them through provisional matches.

[–]McBurgerMcBurger 1 point2 points ago

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People forget that they are oj/brown 20% of the time.

(Making the statistic up, no source, but I'd assume it's true in the long run of 1000+ games)

[–]SchwanzKafka 0 points1 point ago*

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Depends. If you're above the mean of active HoN players, you'll tend to be in the top slots. If you queue with somebody lower as well. At around 1700-post/1800-pre it's rare that you're not at the top and exceptional if you're not in the top 2.

On the obverse, if you're grouping with a higher ranked player, you will consistently be brown/orange. That's also how the really annoying smurfing works: Fake-1500 brown on one team, real 1500-orange on the other. Boom, massive imbalance.

[–]Shaan/ShaanixSworn 0 points1 point ago

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I haven't been orange or brown for hundreds of games. That only applies when you're low mmr.

[–]kingofthedutch 1 point2 points ago

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HoN needs more gggs like you

[–]Ginga 0 points1 point ago

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Ahh the second to last hit. Dem creeps need that gold!

[–]FourIV 15 points16 points ago

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I hate going mid, even if i'm the highest PSR. If you go mid, you will get screamed at, even if you do well. Science forbid you do poorly . . .

[–]AnnoxTaradactel 5 points6 points ago

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So true. I have been up 4-0 ganking top twice and and even killing the other mid player in under 8 mins. While the other bottom lane lane has already fed ~5 kills and blames me for not ganking enough. When they dont even have the decency to put up ward for protection.

[–]Nerdz 4 points5 points ago

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Or the lane is push on the opposite tower

[–]esotericdistilledawesome 17 points18 points ago

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"I MID PLS" PRESSES RANDOM

[–]lolimnotactuallyagirlParalyzing 1 point2 points ago

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Is there a list of commands other than #brownoj?

[–]esotericdistilledawesome 2 points3 points ago*

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(There's also #hon and /heroname. )

[–]klmann 2 points3 points ago

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OJ?

[–]benay123 17 points18 points ago

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Orange juice.

[–]-Businessman -5 points-4 points ago

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That literaly made me laugh

[–]spacemanoncrack 1 point2 points ago

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yeah it was funny but i want a clarification aswell.

[–]MarZBarZmZbZ 4 points5 points ago

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OJ = orange, the lowest person on the legion

[–]VajtasticFrinkFactor 2 points3 points ago

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http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/AndyFrink/Untitled.png

FIFY

[–]LikeRainspiffelight 1 point2 points ago

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Never realised there's a man in that goofy-mask, I thought it was some kinda goofy/man-hybrid.

[–]HoNeyiBKBtehKids 1 point2 points ago*

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as long as the player is not obviously awful I honestly am not bothered who goes mid (beyond being hard countered naturally). we all deserve a chance to try laning against people who might be better than thus, that's how we improve.

[–]soggit 4 points5 points ago

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I think the more telling thing is that the person on the ground automatically assumes orange is trash just because they are the lowest mmr out of 5 heroes.

I've had games where I'm dg or something and lb says "YEAH WHATEVER DG" when he was like 5 mmr above me.

the whole color=skill misconception in hon is one of it's worst features by a long shot.

[–]Crustycrustacean 4 points5 points ago

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This is true for DG and LB but if blue or pink wants to mid then they shouldn't be stopped by OJ or brown. There is usually at least a 50 MMR difference between them and it's there for a reason. Almost every time I am blue or pink and I let OJ or brown go mid I have regretted it. When I am the worst on the team I usually acknowledge that and pick support. I wish other people would do the same.

[–]Clavicule_ 1 point2 points ago

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What is this horrendous mistake I'm reading ? Support is for bad players ? It takes a lot of skill to be a good support dear sir.

[–]Crustycrustacean 3 points4 points ago

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I didn't mean all support is for bad players but there are definitely some easy ones. Plague rider is not difficult to play for example, just get that ult off and you have done your part. Pollywag is hard to play really well but it isn't hard to throw down her wards during a fight. Neither of these heroes requires much farm to be good and are easy to contribute with.

[–]Sauron`Mercfh 0 points1 point ago

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Pollywag....lol

[–]Fallacylolgrim -1 points0 points ago

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Pollywag is hard to play really well but it isn't hard to throw down her wards during a fight.

Because it's super-easy to trap a fast-moving target with a non-targeting ability that places objects in a vaguely-circular shape centered on your cursor? I'll rephrase what you wrote:

Pollywag is hard to play really well. but it isn't hard to throw down her wards with shitty placement and rapidly tapering usefulness during a fight.

[–]soggit 0 points1 point ago

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lol so fucking wrong it hurts

the entire prejudice that orange or brown have is so fucking retarded. it's just an ego boost for whoever is blue/pink who ends up being terrible anyway. people have good games, people have bad games.

also bad players shouldnt be picking support by default - another retarded hon mentality. support heroes are probably the hardest to play and most important heroes in the game. you know what is hard? keeping an anti mage cc'd for 10 seconds straight. or keeping tammates alive with heals and shallow graves. you know what is easy? right clicking to auto attack.

thank god dota 2 doesnt color code its players to give them a nonsense reason to shit talk their teammates off the bat.

[–]Crustycrustacean 7 points8 points ago

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Agree to disagree I guess then. OJ and brown are by far the most likely to fuck over a team with stupid picks and game decisions in my experience. There is way more to playing a carry than right clicking. Most OJ and brown simply don't know how to farm effectively. They pick predator and they still have shit items at 30 minutes in despite spending all game farming the jungle while refusing to help the team. Either that or they get themselves repeatedly killed doing something stupid which demolishes any farm they have.

[–]soggit 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah except I've seen the same exact thing from blues and pinks hundreds of times as well.

My point is that having orange and brown automatically be assumed to be the "worst" gives the typical raging pink and blue a reason to just rage out and throw in the towel immediately. It's completely unnecessary.

How many games have you been in where the orange picks some hero, maybe a carry, and before the game even begins someone is fucking raging out "omfg gg fuck this noob ass orange picking hard carry"

I've been playing dota since wc3, was probably one of the very early players to switch to hon when it was still in closed beta (and invites were not being given out like candy), and played hon all the way through till getting the dota2 beta.

I've played in both systems and I can unquestionably say that assigning colors randomly is way, way, way fucking better.

[–]Shaan/ShaanixSworn 1 point2 points ago

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How would assigning colours randomly change anything? The lowest MMR player will still most likely be the worst on the team. Also, playing pubs in original DotA is nothing like HoN.

[–]soggit 1 point2 points ago

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because its better to hide who is the lowest/highest mmr on the team.

[–]Shaan/ShaanixSworn -1 points0 points ago

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Then you're suggesting a change to the entire way HoN stats work, not just the colour.

Edit: I also don't agree. Sending your lowest MMR mid tends to make games very one-sided and boring.

[–]kiddigudna -1 points0 points ago

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What does oj mean?

[–]Platanium 0 points1 point ago

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Orange

[–]SOLO MID I CARRYrea_ 1 point2 points ago

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YEAH WHATEVER DG

[–]TrappedInThePantry 0 points1 point ago

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The guy arguing for OJ/Brown tending to be worse/should pick support types well and isn't swearing or using hyperbole. The guy arguing the opposite types like a typical HoN forum-goer. Coincidence?

[–]kiddigudna -1 points0 points ago

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What does oj mean?

[–]Taco_Bueno 0 points1 point ago

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Obvious brown player who first picks scout.

[–]soggit -1 points0 points ago

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Yep obviously since I'm not a raging hon player anymore I must be a terribad. Good hon player reasoning skills.

[–]Taco_Bueno 2 points3 points ago

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You might not be a hon player, but you haven't lost the raging.

[–]kiddigudna -4 points-3 points ago

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What does oj mean?

[–]xpinguxxpingux 0 points1 point ago

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http://www.reddit.com/r/HeroesofNewerth/comments/ou6u2/heroes_of_newerth_in_a_nutshell/c3k997b

[–]luckyclamluckyclam 4 points5 points ago

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ITS FUNNY BECAUSE ITS TRUE HEUHEUEHUEUEHU

[–]benay123 1 point2 points ago

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Insta pick's NH Me carry

[–]nubcaekknubcaekk 0 points1 point ago

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why is it goofy?

[–]retardtentwanker 20 points21 points ago

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Because hes a fucking retard

[–]nubcaekknubcaekk 12 points13 points ago

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lol i just read "GOING MID" in goofy's voice.. fucking hilarious

[–]Nemoder 0 points1 point ago

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Wow I haven't seen a Plif comic in ages.

[–]trollolz123 0 points1 point ago

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I used to be 1600 but then i lost a lot and got all the way down to 1550, whenever we lose i always ask myself, Why do i let brown or Oj carry... please tell me I'm not the only one

[–]MaNgAmAnIaCGodeye -3 points-2 points ago

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Then there's those times when I'm smurfing and wind up as brown/oj. LOL BROWN UR BROWN. k kid look at my 80% winrate 3.0 KDR let me mid you fuck

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