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[–]eurrps 696 points697 points ago

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That is actually all the money he has saved by switching his car insurance to Geico so your statement is no longer valid.

[–]allhands 85 points86 points ago*

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Nice try, Geico marketing!

[–]ryandaily 13 points14 points ago

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Maybe over the course of 25 years...

[–]CommanderAnaximander 12 points13 points ago

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This post is exactly why I feel like I'm stuck in a weird place. I despise SOPA/PIPA with the fury of a thousand suns, but at the same time, I dislike piracy nearly as much. I'm not saying piracy is an unforgivable sin because really, there are so many worse things you could do. But honestly, I only pirate when buying is an impossible option. And I'm just a poor college student. I refuse to believe that every single pirate in the world happens to be too poor to afford music.

Hell, being rich isn't even a reason to steal from someone. It might feel good at the time, but it's still a shitty excuse. And for every Lil' Wayne, Miley Cyrus, and Justine Beiber, there are literally dozens of musicians who are struggling to just get by. And honestly? None of them deserve to have their intellectual property taken from them for free. I think everyone has the right to set their price, regardless of how the market responds. Even if it dooms them, they have the right to at least choose that for themselves.

[–]Organs 2 points3 points ago

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Totally. It's like the whole peer2peer piracy thing is the big Flood and people like Lil' Wayne are on the big Ark while people desperately trying to eke out a living as an artist are lost in the flood.

I hate how people comment how the business is better now and artists just need to tour more to make their money but never bother to consider how much harder it is for them to make money anymore. I remember reading about some notable metal artist who maintains a day job at Best Buy and it almost made me weep.

[–]propellerphant 428 points429 points ago

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The problem is that Lil Wayne is such a huge huge minority of the music industry. For every mega star there are thousands of struggling artists making NO money. Yes, many of these small artists do benefit simply from the exposure of their music being pirated, but that doesn't change the fucked up power structure of piracy. If someone wants to give away their music for free, that is their CHOICE, not the right of the consumer. There's a mindset that musicians are entitled brats intent on screwing their fans when most fans never comprehend the amount of work that goes into writing and recording an album. It's funny problem that people expect to be able to consume music for free and still expect ample flows of quality music. Musicians like everyone else need money to live, and if you want them to keep making music, don't force them to give up music so they can survive and SUPPORT ARTISTS.

That being said, I give away tons of music with the band I work with. I firmly believe in building relationships with fans and I understand the reality of making money in the recording industry today, so I take the initiative to give away music and translate that into money through other streams. That being said, it's fucked for people to think they have an inherent right to take someones music for free regardless. We all do it, but christ people, support artists who have positively affected your life.

[–]doot_doot 69 points70 points ago

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well said. speaking as someone who works closely with small artists and small music companies, it's SO hard to get things done without any money. not only do artists not make money, the people that they need to hire to help them succeed can't get paid.

[–]wesman212 31 points32 points ago

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But do people actually pirate these small artists in large numbers? Would anti-piracy laws such as SOPA really help these small artists?

[–]jkdeadite 30 points31 points ago

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Yes, people do pirate small artists in vast numbers. No, anti-piracy laws such as SOPA would not help them at all.

As a musician and owner of a small record label, I can tell you that my music has been stolen thousands of times more than it has been purchased. I have multiple albums that have been downloaded illegally well over a thousand times, all the while selling MAYBE 50 copies over the course of a year.

SOPA and other laws would never benefit small artists, however. They aren't designed to. They're designed specifically to censor the web and help big corporations bring down some of their bigger competitors.

[–]CressCrowbits 8 points9 points ago

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I have a friend who runs a small label. An artist on it who might sell 6,000 copies of his album 5 years ago now sells maybe 500, but still sells just as many tickets for gigs - which it's worth pointing out - doesn't make them any real money.

People are pirating the fuck out of small independent acts as much as the big rich ones.

This IS a BIG fucking deal. I'm not sure I agree with SOPA and PIPA either, but something has to be done, at least this increasing attitude in entitlement and horrible arguments in favour of ripping off music. When I was younger I might copy CDs and download stuff every so often, but I'd certainly never try to come up with some kind of bullshit justification for it because of 'big corporations' or sticking it to the man or some shit. Nowadays, when an album costs about the same as a drink or two in a nightclub, any justification for not paying for it just sounds like bullshit to me.

[–]Salivation_Army 4 points5 points ago

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Out of curiosity, what's your business model? Only selling physical copies, or are digital copies available? What do you charge (if you set the price)?

[–]liquidcloud9 1 point2 points ago

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Even with releasing music under a Creative Commons license, people still violate the very clear terms of the license. Either by attempting to package and sell the music, or failing to give proper attribution.

[–]Veloria 4 points5 points ago

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It's not people pirating the small bands which is the problem. The problem is the labels making less cash from the major artists so then they have less cash to invest in smaller or less commercial music.

[–]EltaninAntenna 1 point2 points ago

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Out of sheer ignorance... What exactly do these smaller artists need the labels for? Make an album, put the fucker on iTunes, pay Apple their cut and let the market decide.

[–]Mr_Metropolis 24 points25 points ago*

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I never pirate local music or bands just starting. But I'll pirate the shit out of a Kanye West record.

[–]McMac 3 points4 points ago

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I'll pirate it twice and not listen to it, just to spite that motherfucker.

[–]space_paradox 4 points5 points ago

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But....that won't have any effect at all.

[–]McMac 7 points8 points ago

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SILENCE! I'll pirate it again just for that!

[–]liquidcloud9 2 points3 points ago

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What about all the other people that work at the record company - the receptionist, the people in IT, the marketing department, the talent scouts, the producer, the mailroom, the cleaning crew... The money from album sales doesn't just go to the label owner and artists.

[–]cahpahkah 8 points9 points ago

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Yes. In fact, most of the money doesn't, because the artists are only one part of the equation.

But pirate self-righteousness doesn't really handle complexity all that well.

[–]doot_doot 1 point2 points ago

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right. and people say "well fuck everyone for leeching off of the artist, they SHOULDN'T get paid." the thing is, most artists would have never gotten anywhere near as big as they are without thousands upon thousands of people working their asses off for them. yeah, fuck the salaries that some of the SVP/EVP's get and the CEO's and all that, but what about the underpaid underlings who do all the real work? i was that guy for years.

it fucking sucks having everyone treat you like you're the scum of the earth because you're a label employee when you're working close to 20 hours a day sometimes for less money than a garbage man makes.

the thing people who pirate don't realize is that recording an album or going out on a tour is an investment for the band. sure, when you pirate their album, you're not STEALING from them because you're not taking money away from them, but you're not helping them pay down the debt they accrued to create that album you're enjoying either.

so, they can't spend as much recording, or they can't do as big of a tour, or they can't spend as much time on music because they have to get side jobs.

the people who act self-righteous about piracy have little to no knowledge of how the business of music actually works. it's pretty bleak in there these days, and that's actually really sad.

[–]cahpahkah 2 points3 points ago

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Well-said. I'm on the TV/movie/publishing side of things, where there are lots of moving pieces and lots of people behind the scene whose careers live or die based on sometimes surprisingly thin margins. They aren't artists, but they aren't moguls either. They're just people doing their jobs -- and doing them well -- and revenue lost due to piracy quite literally can cost them their livelihood.

Some people will always steal when they think they can get away with it, and that's just life. But the completely ignorant attempt to rationalize it away really pisses me off.

[–]doot_doot 2 points3 points ago

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most people just don't want to or don't think they should have to pay for this stuff but they still want to get it. well, guys, if you don't pay for it, they're going to run out of money eventually and stop making it, or just bank on making crap since it's all they can afford.

[–]Pariah_22 42 points43 points ago

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This. My friends actually mock me for buying CDs for the bands I support instead of pirating the music. Lil Wayne becomes their example of how musicians have so much money anyways, don't understand how labels work, or seem to not know that non-popular artists exist. It sickens me to think that people really think this way.

[–]the_showerhead 3 points4 points ago

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You're better than your friends, but buying CDs isn't the best way to support the artist (under most labels at least). Buying merch in person, and seeing a show are. Basically everyone involved in the process of a sale takes a cut of the money before an artist gets it. So with a CD, that's the store you're buying it from, the publishing plant, and the record label. Also under a label, they see it as a greater priority for the label to profit rather than the artist (debatable if this is good or not, but you can't debate that this is how it actually happens). Stores take about 50%, and the label often takes just as much. Digital music isn't much better, I know for an example iTunes takes 40% before the label gets to take anything. (An exception are independent sites where the bands get a chance to manage themselves. Like Bandcamp. BC only takes 10% of sales and pays directly to the account holder).

Here's a really interesting AP article on the subject.

[–]EmpireAndAll 8 points9 points ago

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My boyfriend, his brother and their friends buy the vest because they like the quality better than rip the files onto theor computer. My being generally poor and not having my own computer anymore inhibits me from doing that, which i used to, but I still buy the music off amazon because something as simple as the wrong cover art it is me.

You might be called a dork or an idiot for paying, but at least you are a true fan by supporting the.music you care about.

[–]sophic 7 points8 points ago

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i hope they aren't ripping the files into mp3s, because that completely defeats the purpose.

[–]Shadow647 1 point2 points ago

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because they like the quality better than rip the files onto theor computer

wat. Ever heard of FLAC? Also, if you're "generally poor", you won't be able to hear difference between V2 MP3 and CD either.

[–]Pariah_22 1 point2 points ago

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Excaclty. People don't understand that we need to do what we can to support the bands we care about so they can tour and make their living. Plus I just love having the album art.

[–]EmpireAndAll 1 point2 points ago

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I saw a old friend of mine the other day and saw he had the cd of a band I love on his desk. Me: Oh, you like them? Guy who useually pirates: Yeah, I BOUGHT the CD.

if I want my favorite band to keep making music, I BUY their product. People need to stop acting like its trivial. It really is a big deal. Not everyone is Lil' Wayne.

[–]sonicice 39 points40 points ago

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Lil Wayne... huge minority...

[–]doot_doot 39 points40 points ago

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at 5'5'', he's actually quite small

[–]z0mbiassassin 7 points8 points ago

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Holy fuck really?!

[–]goddamnsam 24 points25 points ago

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he isn't called LIL for nothin'

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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I'm the same height as Lil Wayne...

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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¯(ツ)/¯

I like guys who are taller than me.

[–]jer420 1 point2 points ago

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His name is "Lil" Wayne.

[–]rock_kid 20 points21 points ago

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Huge minority... I'm picturing an obese mexican. Goddamnit, internet. Stop that.

[–]phazenator 2 points3 points ago

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This.

As long as people think the OP's point is the norm, any opposition against the music industry will continue to get labelled as petty, envious, and anarchic.

[–]phormality 2 points3 points ago

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I have no problem supporting smaller bands/artists. I was walking through an art fair in town a while back and had a seat where there was some live music. I like what I heard and stayed for the whole set, then went and bought their album after the show. It was nice knowing the money was going to them, I was putting the money in the lead singers hand. She also seemed genuinely excited by each person who wanted to buy an album which was cool.

I don't really like physical disks, but it's not too much trouble to rip it into iTunes.

[–]masterofunt 23 points24 points ago

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Most non-independent artists don't really get much of a share of the profits from album and single sales, anyway. A lot of them have to do lots of live shows (since the record labels don't take that part of the profit) to support their lifestyles. Royalty checks aren't even enough to live off, especially for relatively unknown artists, which are the ones you're referring to here.

HOWEVER, if an artist puts their music up for an affordable price on a website like Bandcamp and you choose to pirate their entire discography when you have the money to pay for at least some of it, you're a douche. I think Bandcamp gives them something like 70% of the profit from their sales, and it's free to set up a page.

If I pirate an album, and I end up wanting to give it more than just that first listen, I'll generally look for a donate button on the artist's website (and believe me, those buttons are there). That way they get a 100% share of the profit.

[–]DrDerpberg 5 points6 points ago

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Your first paragraph is a bit of a weak argument though (or at least what I think you're getting at is, if I'm misinterpreting you it's a common opinion and still worth rebutting) - even if artists get no royalties from album sales, the lump sums that record companies hand out will progressively only get smaller if there is less revenue to be earned from selling the album. Again, I don't know if that's what you were getting at, but if record companies don't think albums sell as much anymore because of piracy some bands won't get signed, or not for as much.

[–]masterofunt 1 point2 points ago

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Thanks for responding and opening up the discussion!

In response to your first point - once again, it's not that significant a number, and the kind of musicians who are generally earning good sized royalty checks (and we're still only talking MAYBE a couple hundos a month tops, and that's being generous, but hey, that's a car payment or something) are already rich, for the most part. If they're not, then their only musical-related revenue is from those royalty checks, meaning they probably don't really do any live gigs or much beyond creating some original stuff now and then.

Then we come to your next point: you worry that record companies will sign less bands if there's less revenue coming in for them. So what's the problem there? Record companies became relevant during an era when it was difficult for bands to market themselves to mass audiences, which was long before the internet became widely available. Right now we're sort of seeing this war between old media and new media - the record companies are fighting tooth and nail to hold onto the old ways when, in reality, the market is rapidly changing.

The problem I have with many of these major labels is that they're becoming so damn greedy, and they will basically leech as much money as they possibly can out of an artist until that artist loses popularity, at which point they just move on to the next big cash grab. There is one main purpose new bands will sign with a major label: to market themselves when they are still trying to expand their audience. There are also a couple of other reasons (one being that record labels have the means to create and distribute mass physical copies of their music, but that's not the only way to share it these days), but that's the primary one. They don't do it for a big sustainable income. That's just not being realistic. This is the reason many groups tend to create their own labels after becoming popular. While operating under their own label, they can take as much of the profits as they want.

Anyway, before I lose sight of my point, here it is: music isn't going to die that easy. If the greedy major labels who are already ripping their clients off stop signing new bands, sure, those labels may die off, or sign less bands. But that's not necessarily as big a problem as you might think - there are lots of new, cheaper tools nowadays to market oneself as a budding musician. Almost anyone can make it, if they have some talent and a computer with internet access. Plus CD sales are getting dangerously close to dying off in the era of downloadable content, so that's another reason the labels in their current manifestation are no longer relevant. The artist now has the tools to distribute his work himself, and inexpensively to boot (see Bandcamp above).

All of this not even to mention the fact that it is ridiculously cheap for labels to operate these days. Once again, the majority of sales are digital rather than physical now, so there is not much money going into production of CDs and Vinyl anymore. The losses are not as big as they'd have you believe, and they're still making enough to be wiping their asses with cash.

Plus think about this: no more labels, no more Biebers. I can't say I have a problem with that.

So there ends my tangent about greedy, and IMO, unnecessary record labels. You may disagree with me, and that's fine. I'm always willing to listen and have my mind changed.

[–]ZorglubDK 2 points3 points ago

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I completely agree with you!

Only thing I'd like to add, is that the recording industry isn't only a problem because they take around 50-60% of the profits (artists sometimes getting down to a few percent after copyright, distribution & promotional fees).

 - but they are often very unwilling to sign any new name, unless they are absolutely sure it will be a new fat cash-cow.

[–]jlettuce07 1 point2 points ago

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You can make, and I always do, the exact same argument for the movie and TV industries. Costs of production are no longer as huge a barrier to entry as they used to be, and a good artist, in any medium, can make a sustainable living from the internet. They won't become multimillionaire superstars, but it is very possible to create a sustainable small business based around your work, which I personally think is all most artists want anyway: a way to survive doing what you love. It also allows for much better niche marketing and can help artists find their audience in ways the mainstream labels simply can't because they have a model designed for mass appeal.

[–]Obj_solid 2 points3 points ago

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I love sites like Bandcamp, because of how open and feasible getting money from listeners to the artists is. allowing pay what you want options, either no limit or higher than a set price, and allowing you to freely listen to the whole album. I have to admit, I don't have a paypal, and have been shamefully putting in 0$ on some albums that are pay what you want. But once I get my money back in order, I'm for sure giving those artists a huge payback, removing my guilt.

[–]masterofunt 1 point2 points ago

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There's no shame in paying $0 for a "pay what you want" album, so long as you spread the word about those bands and do your best to give back when you can. If those bands wanted there to be a minimum price, they would have set one. Clearly they are making music because it's what they love doing, and they want to share that passion with everyone.

[–]pokerface 1 point2 points ago

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The small artists are probably the music most likely to be purchased by their fans and least likely to be found for free download.

[–]braedizzle 1 point2 points ago

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As a musician and as a marketing student, you are 100% correct throughout this entire statement.

If you love a piece of music or the artist, take the time to send them the $.99 for a track on itunes at the very least!

[–]PrimeIntellect 1 point2 points ago

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Goddamnit thank you. Anytime I ever hear something about musicians being rich in any way I laugh out loud and realize that person has never really actually met and hung out with musicians before.

[–]shredwerd 3 points4 points ago

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If I can't first listen to the music to see if i'll like it, i'll pirate THEN buy if I like it.

[–]ESJ 12 points13 points ago

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The reason I don't buy this argument: if you want to try before you buy, then try YouTube, or Spotify, or Grooveshark, or Pandora, or the good ol' radio. Once you've put in the effort to download MP3s for a band's whole discography, why bother buying those MP3s? I doubt very many people follow through on this notion.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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me too, a lot of artist have a listen party/streaming a week before the album comes out.

[–]Quazifuji 1 point2 points ago

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If someone wants to give away their music for free, that is their CHOICE, not the right of the consumer.

This pretty much sums up my feeling about piracy perfectly. The main reason I'm against piracy isn't about who's making money or has money or what's legal. It comes down to the fact that I believe in any sort of capitalist society people should have the right to do what they want with things they make themselves, even if those things are works of art that can be freely copied. People don't complain if a painter sells their works instead of giving them away for free, but for some reason people think artists do not have some right to profit from the music they themselves created if they so choose. Whether that is a good decision on the artist's part is a matter of debate, but I think it's up to them.

[–]insertAlias 1 point2 points ago

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Games too. I don't know how many times I've seen people talking about boycotting EA by pirating games, as if they have some right to play these games. Pirate if you're going to pirate, just don't pretend it's anything other than what it actually is.

[–]f0urtyfive 1 point2 points ago

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Are you suggesting that this was a different situation 15 years ago? Were small artists thriving before piracy?

[–]gnufender 1 point2 points ago

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i am till waiting for someone to explain how you can morally justify downloading someones hard work. How do you explain to the guy who lives of noodles that downloading his shit is right?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]weapons 12 points13 points ago

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This shit makes my head explode.

The money isn't lost due to piracy. The money is lost because of a paradigm shift in how revenue now works for digital media and people who fail to adapt to the new system by sticking around in the old.

Piracy has NEVER been proven to hurt anything, especially small artists. Great, 10 whopping people shared a CD. Probably gained 10 potential fans, instead people look at it as lost sales. Where is their opt-in list and offer for a free download link? Nowhere. They aren't even implementing a mindset to turn this into a profitable venture, yet bitch that they don't make money? I dont even.

The same backwards thinking that is making the current industry fail.

[–]propellerphant 1 point2 points ago

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I can sympathize with your father's friend but I actually completely disagree with SOPA. I really don't believe legislation is the answer to piracy. For instance, look what happened when piracy first became a problem with Napster. The RIAA and co's first tactic was to sue the shit out of some poor college kids and moms and try to scare everyone away from piracy. It didn't solve anything and pitted the industry against their own consumers. In a very similar way SOPA is trying to attack piracy head on. Not to mention SOPA grants broad powers that could possibly harm people and companies that aren't the problem. For instance, anyone with UGC (user generated content). Youtube is a beautiful thing for the music industry, putting handcuffs on it doesn't help anyone.

If you want to solve piracy the answer is in innovation. Find ways to incentivize fans. Make legal consumption of recorded music more appealing than piracy. Now, how you do that is a whole other argument, but there are tons of great ideas floating around.

[–]carneval 142 points143 points ago

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Don't worry your lil head Lil Wayne. I'll never pirate your music.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points ago

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"Music"?

[–]atafies 10 points11 points ago

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"like what I don't like"?

[–]this_sort_of_thing 6 points7 points ago

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HEY EVERYONE CHECK OUT THIS INDIE METALHEAD DOUCHEBAG MUSIC, THIS IS REAL MUSIC RIGHT, GUYS?

[–]TheNerdbiscuit 1 point2 points ago

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"Lil Wayne"?

[–]FallenRyuSaint 110 points111 points ago

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Why does everyone assume that artists make so much money? Stop using greed as an excuse for your greed to feel better about pirating.

[–]theramennoodle 6 points7 points ago

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The truth is that artists really dont earn that much from CDs but earn more from live shows. Thats why its the record labels who are more upset over pirating than the artists.

[–]hackiavelli 10 points11 points ago

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I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say if I was an artist I would probably prefer to earn a modest amount of money than none at all. But maybe that's just me.

[–]theramennoodle 1 point2 points ago

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Dont get me wrong, artists earn money from sucessful records, but not in the millions and millions that some artists' image lets on. rather artists earn a much larger chunk of money earned from live shows and earn more money that way.

[–]ModestMouseTrap 33 points34 points ago

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Actually the sad fact is that the majority of artists, even major labels ones dont make jack shit. For a large portion of artists, they only make about 30k a year, and that's selling a half a million records! Less then ten percent of artists break even, forever indebted to the major label. Thankfully many can escape this bullshit cycle via independent release, but they better have an established fanbase or it still doesn't mean crap, anyone curious about what real record contracts pay the artist read the article "the problem with music" by Steve albini

[–]pilvlp 4 points5 points ago

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They make plenty from gigs.

[–]mocotazo 2 points3 points ago

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The overwhelming majority of artists that make serious money from event bookings got there because a label dropped money on them. Production, studio time, engineers, advertising, album guest features. It's not like venue owners are going to look up popular Myspace artists and offer them 10k a show. They're going to book artists that are guarantee to draw a crowd.

[–]GeneralMillss 1 point2 points ago

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Not the struggling ones. Most of the time, they make enough to barely pay for gas and maybe a meal a day.

[–]alividlife 1 point2 points ago

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I have a bunch of friends doing this, and they do it because they love it. That's probably the only steadfast rule about following a career in music. Do it because you love it, because you are going to be pooping in strange places, constantly away from your friends and family, and always one thing away from being out of a job. There's not much money in it for a majority of my friends.

[–]ckb614 1 point2 points ago

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I have never purchased a Soundgarden album, but I have illegally downloaded most of their music. Last summer I went to see them live and brought a friend at $75 a ticket. By seeing one show, the band got more money than they would have from me paying for the entire collection. If I didn't download their music, I wouldn't have gone to the show, and I still wouldn't have bought their CDs.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points ago

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This kills the artist.

[–]Bipolarruledout 4 points5 points ago

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That's not always a bad thing.

[–]andrewsmith1986 220 points221 points ago

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Are you insinuating that if someone is rich, it is ok to steal(I know that it isn't exactly stealing) from them?

[–]notgeorgeclooney 159 points160 points ago

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Yea, were all actually being robin hoods!

God, I hate reddit sometimes.

[–]Generic_Redditor_13 25 points26 points ago

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He's rich. I'm poor. Therefore, I'm Robin Hood

[–]Iggyhopper 3 points4 points ago

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If you were on a burglary spree, going house to house, you would also be...

Robin Hood.

[–]danman11 1 point2 points ago

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I often feel like the average IQ here is around 90.

[–]cake4chu 1 point2 points ago

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I Like to Rob hoods..... mostly for rims and such.

[–]zoomzoomz 2 points3 points ago

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I know that it isn't exactly stealing

Then don't refer to it as stealing. I agree that it doesn't make it moral because someone is rich, but using language like this is disingenuous.

[–]Scallywagger 1 point2 points ago

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Hey, do you still hate cats and masturbate to Jenny McCarthy?

[–]Dr_Robotnik 12 points13 points ago

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Although, in this case, the producers get all the money from sales, and the actual artists only get payed for recording the album, but the way the message is conveyed here makes me think the exact same thing. "Rich people don't deserve the same rights as us" is a popular theme on Reddit, and it's one of the main things that drove me away from mainstream Reddit.

[–]Quazifuji 18 points19 points ago

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Well, I think most of the anti-rich stuff is more "rich people currently have more rights than us, but should have the same rights", rather than "rich people should have fewer rights than us." The piracy argument seems more an exception.

[–]mistoroboto 10 points11 points ago

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reddit hipsters?

[–]elcheeserpuff 3 points4 points ago

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The number of redditors who think that rich people don't deserve rights is infinitesimal. The actual thought about the rich on reddit is that the rich currently have more rights than the non-rich and are influencing our representatives disproportionately to how the country should actually be represented. (my apologies, that got a little loopy at the end there

[–]pnettle 2 points3 points ago

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Look at the image, this guy is justifying not giving them money because lil wayne is rich.

He's not doing it because lil wayne is improperly influencing his representatives.

[–]Bad_Sex_Advice 0 points1 point ago

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and what about the hundreds of thousands of people in the entertainment industry that have lost their jobs already. Your money doesn't go straight to the artist - these are people that make less than 60k a year

[–]elcheeserpuff 4 points5 points ago

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I agree with you completely, but I still find it infuriating that the middle-class man will suffer unemployment while the producer/ceo will get a bonus for cutting costs.

[–]digmachine 12 points13 points ago

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I've seen so many shows, supported so many bands, bought so many shirts, and, yes, so many albums, etc. All of which would have never happened if I wasn't given the chance to explore their material ahead of time. Paying for an album you haven't heard and not sure you like is akin to buying a brand new car without test driving it.

As a musician and producer, I don't expect a single intelligent soul to buy my albums based on the merits of one or two singles. You can't know if you like it until you've heard it.

[–]squeezycheeseypeas 1 point2 points ago

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I agree, I love having the CD on my shelf but have been sorely disappointed in the past (Stereophonics Language. Sex. Violence. Other?). I have since pirated some music but I have bought more than ever because of it. I heard of a guy called John Mayer, he's not particularly big over here in the UK so I downloaded one of his albums and found that I liked what he was playing and bought some more. I now also have a paid subscription to Spotify which means that all of my music is legal and it's purely because I got used to "trying before buying".

I heard an argument that if the ones I had downloaded and didn't like were still in my possession then I had "stolen" that music but if I didn't like it I didn't see the point in keeping it so I always deleted it.

[–]DiscordianStooge 1 point2 points ago

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There's something to be said for hitting the club, paying a small cover and seeing a few bands you've never heard before. Are they any good? It's worth the money for a night of entertainment. Do they suck? Well, that's an experience you can share with your pals as well.

I'm happy to explore content ahead of time. I'm willing to pay for it if it's good. Most people think they deserve it for free.

[–]indignation01 1 point2 points ago

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No. Most people pirate because it's easy, convenient, and free. The convincing themselves that they deserve it for free comes afterwards as a justification for the action they know in their heart is wrong and damaging.

[–]FoundPie 2 points3 points ago

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Oh, so it's okay to steal if it's a small enough percentage of the original owner's wealth. Thanks for clearing that up.

[–]abw1987 12 points13 points ago

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I don't get this. Are you saying that if [person] makes [large amount of money], you should be able to steal from them?

[–]JonathanUnicorn 5 points6 points ago

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I believe the argument is that a lot of people who download music illegally wouldn't have ever bought the album to begin with? So it's not really stealing, as the money wasn't gonna go to them anyway. Just listening for free...?

[–]fotorobot 46 points47 points ago

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what really happens is you get mp3 files to a dozen mediocre songs that your cheap ass didn't think was good enough to actually purchase.

[–]Boycubpiglet 73 points74 points ago

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You're making the mistake of assuming people are rational. I know plenty of people who can't wait for a new album and immediately torrent it, rave about it, then laugh at the concept of supporting it by buying it. Those are the types of people who make piracy an issue

[–]Wondering_Wandering 9 points10 points ago

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The problem is, even if you do buy it the artist makes a negligible amount of money anyway. It all goes to record companies. Sites like Bandcamp are artist heaven. Bandcamp charges a flat rate and the artist keeps the rest.

[–]Boycubpiglet 6 points7 points ago

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Don't get me wrong the setup of the music industry is ridiculous and needs to be restructured, but torrenting isn't the answer either. It sounds like Bandcamp has the right idea though.

[–]Bipolarruledout 1 point2 points ago

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This is highly unethical and something I would never do especially with a highly anticipated release. If the music is worth paying for then pay for it!

[–]Dream4eva 7 points8 points ago

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Make a site where I can go in, buy a song and actually own the file on my computer in 5 clicks, isn't over price and locked to a format and I will buy your music.

[–]4160l23 20 points21 points ago*

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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If you want multiple formats go with bandcamp. They usually offer 320kbps mp3/VBR0 mp3, FLAC, AAC, many more I can't remember.

There is google music, amazon mp3, itunes..they all offer high bit rates on their downloads. really easy to purchase too. if you are such an audiophile that you need a lossless format, you'd probably be better off buying the physical CD/vinyl and ripping it yourself.

[–]millionsofcats 3 points4 points ago

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Do you consider Amazon.com's downloads to be overpriced?

Personally, I can justify .99 for a song that I think I'll play a lot, but I think I would probably spend more money on music if I could find a service that offered unlimited, DRM-free downloads for a monthly fee. And had a wide-ranging selection. Staring at that .99 pricetag and making individual decisions just makes me more choosy and I usually won't go over $10 a month.

[–]Kinseyincanada 2 points3 points ago

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Almost every single online music store is drm free

[–]NonPermissive 10 points11 points ago

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Unless you download Miles Davis FLACs

[–]ForrestFireDW 15 points16 points ago

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Thats classy piracy.

[–]mindaika 4 points5 points ago

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And just how do you expect Miles Davis to make money off that?

[–]Deadnettle 1 point2 points ago

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what really REALLY happens is what you said AND also you get a dozen other songs you would absolutely purchase at full price but don't because there they are right in front of you in a 20 sec torrent/usenet download instead of some online store, and GETTING FREE SHIT IS AWESOME. for an enormous proportion of people, they'd pirate songs available for $0.29 just as fast as those for $5 each, and in fact would probably pirate songs that are free but you have to spend a minute registering on the artists website or something.

[–]methshin 4 points5 points ago

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Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person that buys CDs

[–]masterofstuff328 1 point2 points ago

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While I do pirate the majority of my music, when I can afford it, I go out and buy the vinyls of albums. That way, not only do I get the music, but collecting records is just neat in general, and there's something to be said about the audio quality of a record.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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This is idiotic. Okay, watch me say a differing opinion and get downvoted to oblivion: pirating is bad. It is illegal for a reason. You are not entitled to free access to media. Music, movies, etc. are someone's intellectual property and they deserve to be compensated for it. I'm so sick of this entitled attitude I keep seeing that's basically "ugh! why should I have to pay for this?" It's spoiled. I agree, SOPA and PIPA are awful, but piracy needs to stop, and I hope the rules get MUCH stricter for illegal distribution of media. It actually IS really really really damaging to the artists and media creators. You want a CD? Pay 10 fucking dollars for it. Not that hard. You aren't just entitled to get this stuff for free.

[–]Bacon_Face 5 points6 points ago

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As much as I dislike Lil Waynes music, he has released many mixtapes for free and actually doesn't have a problem with piracy.

[–]qlz 1 point2 points ago

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I see 28 listed, probably has more. http://www.lilwaynesite.com/LiLWayneMusic

[–]Professor_Neckbeard 126 points127 points ago

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Lil Wayne is a lot of things but he's no artist.

[–]naengmyeon 54 points55 points ago*

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You should check out the documentary on him "The Carter." I never was a fan of his, but after seeing it I definitely have more respect for him. It is also a really good film.

edit: added link

[–]mightbetrolling 89 points90 points ago*

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Isn't that the movie where Samuel L Jackson coaches a basketball team of a bunch of troubled youth?

[–]nagatake 37 points38 points ago

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No, you're thinking of Coach Carter. The Carter is a documentary about the declining quality of education in the United States.

[–]mja123 122 points123 points ago

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this stops here and now

[–]HorizonShadow 33 points34 points ago

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I rather enjoy reddit's correction segment =[

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points ago

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Really? You may get one or two clever comments but the rest of the thread is just a clusterfuck jammed with inanity.

[–]HorizonShadow 10 points11 points ago*

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Reddit's nothing without its circlejerk.

Edit: Grammar mistake.

[–]AriBBCP 14 points15 points ago

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so brave

[–]Shabla_goo32 3 points4 points ago

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Your'e doing god's work son. Have an upvote.

[–]emceelokey 2 points3 points ago

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Funny because this whole thread is about piracy and you post a link to a documentary that gave you more respect for him that's on a "tube" site where he and the producers are probably not going to get anything from it. On top of that, it made me want to find a download of it so I can check it out later.

Even though that may seem bad, this documentary would have been dead and forgotten by now. I was never even aware of it until now. At the very least, I'm now thinking of Lil Wayne, which I never have any reason to do so. I'm not going to buy any of his albums because of this but I'll probably check out a few of his videos on youtube in which he'll make some sort of money from and if these guys were smart, they'd start selling some product placement in their videos.

[–]IsomorphicAlgorithm 4 points5 points ago

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[–]buddhassynapse 2 points3 points ago

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I watched it and both gained and lost respect for him but net respect was a slight gain.

[–]s13coupe 3 points4 points ago

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off to the pirate bay..

[–]Erickj 7 points8 points ago

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So after releasing multiple albums and mixtapes for years and being featured along with other musicians, Lil Wayne isn't an artist?

[–]danman11 5 points6 points ago

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You need to understand that reddit has been and will always be a circle jerk. Say something positive about Louis C.K. and you'll get all the upvotes in the world, say something negative about Palestine and they will downvote you to hell.

[–]DJCjr24 1 point2 points ago

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I swear I find the most ignorant shit on this site

edit sometimes

[–]drweezyfbaby 1 point2 points ago

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I disagree

[–]goddamnsam 1 point2 points ago

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Prepared for some arguments here, but Lil' Wayne can be a pretty fucking fantastic rapper when he's not trying too hard. Carter II is a pretty great album, but past that it's pretty hard to listen to any album of his without cringing a good 4/5ths of it.

[–]under_the_gun23 14 points15 points ago

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What about all the bands not played on the radio all the time? I don't see them laying on stacks of money. Hell, just about any good metal band is probably mostly broke. Fuck this post.

[–]mocotazo 4 points5 points ago

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I'm in the music industry. Most rap artists I know make their real money from shows or guest features on other albums. But the overwhelming majority won't get decent show bookings unless they're popular. Radio spins and video play is what gets them there. How do you get spins? A label will typically spend money on producers, guest features. And depending on the label, DJs and program directors will get cash under the table. If you make a record label think twice about investing six or seven figures on a rising artist because the profit isn't the same, you also impact the artist. Backing from a label (and heavy radio play) can be the difference between an artist doing two shows a month at $500 each versus $30,000 from one show a month.

[–]nagatake 21 points22 points ago

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If Panda Wok wants to give away free samples of their lemon chicken to gain exposure, then it's okay to take it. It's not okay to reach into the buffet and take a handful of lemon chicken, not pay for it, and say it's all good because you're distributing it to other people in the food court.

So many of you are confusing the fact that free music makes life easy for you with the idea that it is moral.

[–]griffcon 6 points7 points ago

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Is this buffet capable of producing infinite copies of lemon chicken at little or no cost to the restaurant?

[–]lolipopp 3 points4 points ago

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Is the lemon chicken almost indestructable to the point that once one has lemon chicken, they can continue eating it for years?

[–]sirfergy 4 points5 points ago

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How does that change the fact you're choosing how to distribute their products?

[–]1l1k3bac0n 2 points3 points ago

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While I agree that piracy shouldn't be used, that's a poor metaphor for pirating. Pirating (while it can be just as bad) isn't the same as stealing.

[–]nagatake 1 point2 points ago

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Usually when you disagree, you offer a counter-argument other than "you are wrong."

[–]rxshea 2 points3 points ago

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here's an article i read a few months ago that made me consider the difference between the value of a song and it's cost. some indie musicians make great music because they're great artists. all this pop hype shit is contrived garbage.

[–]Farn 2 points3 points ago

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I guess this is targeted at people who hate Lil' Wayne and don't want him to be rich. Those people probably wouldn't be pirating his music. When you pirate music, you're only hurting the artists you do like, and guys like Lil' Wayne don't care, because his fans all pay for music.

EDIT: Well, it's more accurate to say you're hurting the labels. I'm really arguing against this particular image rather than piracy as a whole.

[–]Artisyn 2 points3 points ago

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This is only the case if your on a major record label, and or a very mainstream artist.

[–]DasBlanco 2 points3 points ago

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i pirate music but support my favorite artists by going to their shows and buy their merch.

[–]travdood 2 points3 points ago

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I'm prepped for down votes, but you hurt more than just the artist. There are plenty of other people in the industry that are part of the whole process of making those album. Their pay has been cut and there are plenty of he lower jobs that have been lost due to piracy.

The bottom line is this. If something is too expensive in your opinion, don't buy it. If you wouldn't buy it anyways, it doesn't mean you deserve it for free. People who pirate are people who just want free shit. Period.

[–]seanraf 2 points3 points ago

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Also, the reason why mid to high-level rap artists get paid tons more than the average mid-level rock or pop artist is guest verses. Wayne steps into the booth, throws down 16 bars, and gets paid a million+ of the HOST artists record budget. Wayne's label gets no cut of that money unless terms are negotiated between Wayne's label and the label of the artist he did a verse on before he's allowed to do the verse. Even when terms like this are negotiated, the money isn't royalty based nor does Wayne need to pay back an advance (it's not his record after all), it's just a couple hundred thousand straight into his pocket.

[–]Vexal 9 points10 points ago

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Downplaying the negative effects of your actions is not a valid way to justify doing something illegal or immoral.

[–]DistinctlyRandom 96 points97 points ago

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There is no justification for piracy. I'm sorry but no matter how much money someone has, you are still not permitted to listen to or watch something they made without paying for it. simple as that.

[–][deleted] 97 points98 points ago

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your downvotes just further verifies reddits entitlement problem.

[–]cornpwn12 57 points58 points ago

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reddit DOES have a huge entitlement mentality

[–]rab777hp 8 points9 points ago

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Hey! Take that back right now! Or else!!! Do you have any idea who you are talking to?

[–]mckelroy88 6 points7 points ago

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yeah bro. we're from reddit. we can like, give you downvotes and stuff.

[–]gnufender 4 points5 points ago

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TIL that reddit is full of spoiled brats who thinks thay can get everyting for free

[–]harbeas 12 points13 points ago

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Totally agree. Why should an individual write music if they are not going to make money from it? Stealing music from the author without reimbursing him/her is wrong.

[–]PrimeIntellect 1 point2 points ago

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I've never met anyone who wrote music to make money that didn't make complete shit. People don't make art and music for money, but they do need to support themselves some how.

[–]Stone_Pilot 4 points5 points ago

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Why would anyone pirate Lil' Wayne's music?

[–]KronktheKronk 6 points7 points ago

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STEALING FROM PEOPLE IS OK BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH!!!!

Great argument, asshole.

[–]Godspeed122 13 points14 points ago

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yea, It's definitely okay to rob from people as long as they're rich.

[–]jaico 8 points9 points ago

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Well, diamond studded swimming pools don't grow on trees ya know.

[–]yep45 1 point2 points ago

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Because this is how musicians truly live their lives.

[–]Tymo55 1 point2 points ago

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Lil Wayne not withstanding, how would YOU feel if you made something with the intention of selling it, and people took it for free? Would you like me to start doing this?

[–]velvethammer44 1 point2 points ago

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Not all people who work in entertainment are rich artists. Maybe you forgot that.

[–]Viridovipera 1 point2 points ago

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While Lil Wayne, Lady Gaga and other top 40 stars may not notice if a few nerdy folks pirate their music, consistently pirating all your music and not supporting artists in other ways (i.e. shows, merchanidise etc.) makes it extremely hard for artists to actually make a living making the music that you enjoy.

By saying that it's ok to download music for free and expecting artists to make their money by doing more shows not only makes life for the artists harder (touring can be hell), but will also drive up the price of concerts.

So let's hear alternatives. Support artists the smaller labels that do not take absurd amounts of profits from the artists? Pirate music and then buy the CD if you really like the band? Or accept the fact that with cheap music, concert ticket prices will increase and pay the fee?

TL;DR Sure I wanna pirate music because I love music and don't like spending money, but I also think artists should be paid fairly for their work. What DO we do?!

[–]Young_Clean_Bastard 1 point2 points ago

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So just because someone is rich it's OK to steal from them? Is that what you're saying?

[–]lostgam3r 1 point2 points ago

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I hate this apathetic attitude towards piracy. "What's $1 less doing to do, HURR?" If everyone adopted that attitude, there would be a lot less music out there.

[–]mulligrubs 1 point2 points ago

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Hey you, artist. Here's a $500,000 advance payment on your record. Take a photo with it. Man, you look good. Just don't forget you owe us $500,000. With interest, bitch.

[–]FiniteBlank 1 point2 points ago

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Haha, yeah, what's up with people getting paid for the work they do? What bullshit.

[–]cdzrom2 1 point2 points ago

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This picture ignores the literally hundreds of thousands of artists who aren't Little Wayne. Small time artists, FX guys, storyboard guys, the list goes on. Think about how many people work on films, produce records, etc. How does this shit get upvoted?

[–]lumpypoptarts 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah because all artists/bands have as much money as lilwayne. What about small time music? Why would it matter anyhow? Stealing from anyone isn't ok.

[–]Lovebeard 1 point2 points ago

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If you're a musician, maybe you should prove to me through free recordings and live shows that you're actually fucking worth my money before I buy your shitty album. I'm not going to go out and buy it on faith alone, you entitled cunts. Sorry you think you deserve my money just being you're "following your dream."

[–]BlondeJesus 1 point2 points ago

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When you pirate music you hurt the record company

FTFY

[–]alexnoaburg 1 point2 points ago

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Movies, books, music are part of what make this country great. If you want to see how piracy is beneficial to a country, look no further than Spain whose industries have been obliterated, and the people there have now ingrained in the mentality of not having to work to get things. This attitude is reflected in their government-brand of socialism and is destroying their country. They lose hard power and they lose the soft power that comes with media, not to mention jobs of those in the industry and those who supply that industry who are in the restaurant sector, retail, manufacturing. That country is in the doldrums precisely because of the everything is free mentality that has made them lazy and unproductive. If that is your vision of America, then by all means keep illegally downloading. I agree, SOPA is not perfect. But work with the lobby who represent people who wish to protect their jobs and feed their families. Work with the senators and iron out the kinks so that we can go after foreign web sites who are killing American jobs and enriching their own criminal enterprises. Show your support for Americans and the work they put in by spending that 3 bucks for a movie or that 1 buck for a song. If you don’t think anybody other than corporate suits get the money, ask the Spanish in those affected industries who now don’t have jobs how much they could use the money and work.

[–]gnufender 1 point2 points ago

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How the fuck do you guys think that you can just get someones hard work for free? you're just a bunch of spoiled brats if you ask me.

and i'm not talking about lil Wayne because he's not making music, he makes shit.

[–]MattyHavok63 1 point2 points ago

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i can glady say ive never ''stolen'' music. if i want an album i go out and buy it

[–]Lord_of_the_Dance 1 point2 points ago

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My friends are in a band and they said via their fan page on Facebook "we don't care if you pirate our music, we just want everyone to hear it"

[–]PsychoxCliff 6 points7 points ago

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If it actually hurts him....I'm downloading his entire discography.

[–]Watawkichaw 1 point2 points ago

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it hurts him if the people downloading are people who would have normally been in his record company's demographic. All you're doing at this point is suckin up bandwith from punk ass middle schoolers trying to maintain their "cool."

[–]TheJanks 3 points4 points ago

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My mother has a favorite song that I barely remember from the 80s.

Mac Davis - "Me and Fat Boy"

No luck on Amazon.com MP3 nor iTunes. For the longest time I could not hunt it down for her, and lo and behold I just found it on Youtube - uploaded June 2011! This is another reason people pirate - it's not available anymore in a media currently being used.

[–]FoundPie 1 point2 points ago

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Lil Wayne ≠ Me and Fat Boy

[–]creepyeyes 1 point2 points ago

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The only reason I will ever pirate music, when I literally can not buy it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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basically you just fuck the sound engineers over

[–]voteferpedro 1 point2 points ago

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You mean auto tune monkeys?

[–]Sopwith_Camel 4 points5 points ago

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[–]tracer_t 3 points4 points ago

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Hurt the artists AND help yourself!

[–]ENKC 3 points4 points ago

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What the fuck kind of pathetic attempt at justifying piracy do you call this? "Oh, someone in the music industry has money, therefore artists aren't being harmed."?

Not seeing where the 'funny' part comes in here.

[–]weatherwar 3 points4 points ago

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Very relevant

[–]rainydayglory -2 points-1 points ago

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i think it's the audience that needs to learn that lil' wayne, and other stars, are just images. no one really has that kind of money. if they did, many more problems would be solved with said money. do you really think matt damon can afford to feed a village? cuz if he could, he'd fucking do it.

the record industry wants you to believe 'cribs'. every kid who makes their way up the chain to be famous spends incredible amounts of money trying to get there. money that the exec's will use to pay their rent, rather than get an actual job that contributes something.

'whitney houston' doesn't sell sixteen million records on a tuesday. the label purchases from themselves those records at cost and sells them in 'bargain bins' over a long period of time to make up the loss. but they're buying those records AT COST. the reason they do this is so that maybe 50,000 people actually walk into a record store on that tuesday. because they read the news that whitney houston sold 16 million records on a tuesday. lies.

wake up. the music industry is FAR more evil on WAY more levels than you could possibly fathom.

[–]Kuusou 17 points18 points ago

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The aid I get to go to school could feed a village. What are you talking about?

[–]girlnextdoor480 14 points15 points ago*

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Kim Kardashian's wedding alone could have paid for me to go to college for over 2000 years. You are naive if you think that they only thing stopping these people from feeding the poor is money.

*edit for maths

[–]carneval 1 point2 points ago

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All of reddit? ~13.7 million users as of this blog post (I believe it's something like 20 million now but I could be wrong). The average cost of an undergrad education in the US is/was 54,924 USD. So....that means her wedding cost over 752 billion dollars?

I think you've stumbled upon the solution to the debt crisis!

[–]girlnextdoor480 3 points4 points ago

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I KNEW I WAS A GENIUS

[–]Stu8912 2 points3 points ago

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You don't know what you're talking about. Matt Damon makes around $24 million a year. If he just gave up half of that (even after taxes) the interest off it alone could feed several small villages for generations.

[–]BaconChapstick 1 point2 points ago

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This is why I only buy music from artists I respect.

[–]Z0mbiemaster 2 points3 points ago

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lol artist. that's a good one.