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all 84 comments

[–]think_free 21 points22 points ago

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I really fucking hate looking at Kirk's stupid face...I think he should go suck a bag of dicks.

[–]first_day_on_reddit 20 points21 points ago

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Why? I think he seems like a decent guy.

[–]think_free 10 points11 points ago*

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Serous? I understand it is your first day and all but come on.

[–]crimsonslide 3 points4 points ago

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Being an idiot does not preclude someone from being a decent guy.

[–]think_free 3 points4 points ago

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If said idiot is actively attempting to spread their idiocy to others than they are no longer a "decent guy", he is a charlatan, a snake oil salesman...a dick.

[–]crimsonslide 1 point2 points ago

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Idiots and the ignorant are not always fully aware of their state.

Where as charlatans & snake oil salesmen are aware they are selling bogus cures.

It is an issue of comprehension and intent.

[–]first_day_on_reddit 11 points12 points ago

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Maybe it's the hat. Not a good fashion choice.

[–]think_free 10 points11 points ago*

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[–]first_day_on_reddit 8 points9 points ago

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How do you do that? That's cute.

[–]ConstipatedNinja 8 points9 points ago

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I thought this was your first day on reddit, not your first say on the internet.

[–]first_day_on_reddit 8 points9 points ago

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I've got a lot to say about the internet. Where should I start?

[–]megacurtains 4 points5 points ago*

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Youporn.com has well moderated video forums full of mature individuals (many of whom are female) with interesting points of view, allowing you to see the internet in all its glory.

[–]PaperbackBuddha 0 points1 point ago

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At first glance it always reminds me of Jughead.

[–]Giant_Ian 1 point2 points ago

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Every time I see him I want to punch him a little more.

[–]think_free 0 points1 point ago

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I am normally a peaceful person, but yes, something about that smirk makes me want to punch him.

[–]Norannyo 1 point2 points ago

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I don't remember ever reading that Kirk Cameron wanted to get religion in the schools. However I do know many Christians that are very much opposed to the idea of anyone other than a Christian teaching and preaching the gospel.. think about it. Would you want a southern "hick" teaching Astrophysics, if he doesn't have a degree in that field?

I think the last thing Christians want is a atheistic fueled teacher getting a Christian message across. really, think about it?

[–]think_free 3 points4 points ago

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Creation "science" in schools = religion in schools...

I think the last thing Christians want is a atheistic fueled teacher getting a Christian message across. really, think about it?

This is relevant to what?

[–]Norannyo 0 points1 point ago

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i was meaning to reply to the OP, and creation in schools is exactly what I'm talking about. Educated Christians don't want it taught in secular schools, why would they? I know there are some groups that are for the idea, but I know many who are not.

[–]test_tickles 5 points6 points ago

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if creationism is to be taught in schools.. then evolution needs to be taught in church.

[–]LaVieEnRose0 7 points8 points ago

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I know a family like this. Their sun was beating his wife. He decided he didn't want to be married anymore so he made up some lies about her and his family took him and the kids away and kicked her out on the street. We are now helping her get custody of her kids and we know this will happen because he doesn't pay taxes!

[–]Battlesheep 12 points13 points ago

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Wait, they own a star?

[–]TwoTacoTuesdays 1 point2 points ago

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If you can pay and "name" a star...

[–]AwakeningtoLove 12 points13 points ago

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Honest question here, would it really be that bad for religion to be taught in public schools - if they were taught non-evangelically?

My point is, religion has been a MASSIVE part of human history and culture, whether people believe it or not / agree with it or not. Of course, in any good school you'd learn about world religions in history class, but not very in-depth, which sometimes is necessary to have a better understanding of why something happened, how a culture evolved, and a plethora of other things that fill in the dots of history.

Just my two cents.

EDIT: Sorry for the run-on sentence! Don't kill me internets!

[–]kreaturesleeper[S] 22 points23 points ago*

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I believe it would be a good idea for religion to be taught as a part of history, but not as a moral guideline or glorified in any way. If you were to read EVERY verse in the bible to a grade school level class, you would hit a few snags in terms of "things children shouldnt hear." People nowadays of modern day religion laugh and scoff at mayan sacrifices, but in the future we will be doing the same for christianity, islam, etc. Id like to jump start it, if you will. If you were to teach it an angle similiar to presenting the culture of a certain people, and relating their actions because of their religous beliefs. Then you could go further into their holy books and belief system and explain WHY they believed and lived the way they did.

[–]georgeeking 1 point2 points ago

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That's roughly what happens in the UK already.

[–]kreaturesleeper[S] 6 points7 points ago

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I live in the bible belt, and went to a private christian school until 10th grade. We had "Bible Class", where we would memorize verses, but never discuss them ಠ_ಠ

We also had chapel every day for an hour. We had guests come in one day to sing and stuff, and the headmaster ended up kicking them out because they were dancing...

[–]Endlessxo 1 point2 points ago

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As somebody who went to a very secular public high school in the northeast, I'm curious.

  1. Is there a grade in bible class? And if so, is it factored into your GPA that colleges will see? Are there tests, homework, projects (other than memorizing verses)?
  2. Is there such thing as AP bible class or honors bible class? Is it possible for students to transfer out of bible class?
  3. Is there any teasing or hazing between protestants and catholics (i'm assuming they have a denomination in the bible belt), during school?
  4. Do kids actually.. well.. want to be in bible class? Is there any penalties in skipping?

[–]kreaturesleeper[S] 2 points3 points ago*

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  • Yes, we had tests, and it had an impact on our overall GPA. We didnt have projects as far as I can remember.
  • No, it was just bible class, each grade had a different teacher, as in EVERY teacher was qualified to teach bible class, just because they were christian.
  • Not that I can remember, but they didnt believe in dancing. We didnt have prom, we had an "awards ceremony", where they would book a restaurant in a hotel, and you sit there (segregated) while they gave out trophies for different sports. I always went to prom with girls from public schools (which wouldve gotten me kicked out had they known). The boys had to wear collard shirts, tucked in. You got in trouble if you didnt wear a belt, or if your hair wasnt 2 fingers above your eyebrows, or was touching your ears. Girls could only wear dresses or skirts, and they had to be loose fitting. And Im not talking about the awards ceremony dress code, this was our dress code for just going to school. No t shirts EVER. Our cheerleaders wore pants at football games ಠ_ಠ. It was a souther baptist school fucking nightmare.
  • Some of them did. Looking back on it, some were insane when it came to christianity. We had a "bible quiz club", that would travel around and compete against other christian schools about the bible. It was like jeopardy for morons.

We did have a debate club, which I was in every year. I liked playing devils advocate. This also cost my parents 330 dollars a month, while they were still paying taxes that would go to public schools. Luckily I started on the basketball team. It was cool being 6 4" at 13 years old, one of the few things that kept me from losing my mind before I transferred to a public school. Also did I mention... christian girls are freaks in bed.

[–]onemanband420 0 points1 point ago

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Ugh man "fucking nightmare" sounds about right. I was raised in a Protestant family and it wasn't until I was about 14 when I started thinking for myself and I realized that it was mostly, if not completely, bullshit. I honestly would have gone to a teacher or someone in authority and said "I'm an atheist" just to get kicked out so that I could go to a normal school. As a freshman in college who has hair down to my shoulders, full beard, wears t-shirts all the time, and curses like a sailor, I shake my head at these kinds of schools. I would classify these requirements as human rights violations. My extremely Catholic grandma asked my mother last Christmas, quite condescendingly I might add, "Does his school not have hair or facial hair standards?" to which I replied "No, we have freedoms."

Fuck everything about that.

[–]tlydon007 0 points1 point ago

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I went to Catholic School in northeast and I think you have some misconceptions.

For question 3, I don't think you understand that Bible Belt is strictly Protestant. The more extreme ones regard Catholics as no different or better than Atheists or Muslims.

[–]Endlessxo 0 points1 point ago

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I thought that would be the case at first, but I didn't want to label everybody in the bible belt as protestant. I just thought that there was a small, but significant section of Catholicism in the south. I find it sad that protestant extremists see Catholics that way.

[–]tlydon007 1 point2 points ago

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I actually find it a little fascinating how they view Catholics. A couple of my siblings lived in the Bible Belt and when they mentioned they were Catholic, people would mention that they don't look very Mexican(as if it was synonymous with Catholic).

Much of the prejudice is from an outdated view about a century old when the Catholic Church was the pro-union, liberal, social justice church. If they were still anything like that today, I'd probably still be Catholic. Since then, they've turned into something I doubt Jesus(God or not) would ever approve of.

[–]bloodyflux 1 point2 points ago

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the historicity of religion was taught in my high school. But it was taught by Christians, so the part of the chapter about Christians came across like an ad, but the other religion just got the basic couple of facts then move on. The issue is that most teachers are not capable of teaching their beliefs impartially. Have atheists teach religion, then we'll talk.

[–]VPCockPistol 2 points3 points ago

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if it wasn't for religious persecution pilgrims wouldn't have come to america to enforce their own religious persecution. also i agree with you.

[–]Izawwlgood 2 points3 points ago

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I'm cool with religion being taught in school; in 4th grade, we covered a fascinating year of Greek mythology that I think broadened my horizons and exposed me to beautiful and weird stories. In 2nd, we did a unit on Japan, which covered Shinto, and was fascinating. In 8th, I remember taking a class on Viking Mythologies, and felt it was the coolest shit ever. Teach religion in class, just make sure it's taught as 'Myths and Culture'.

[–]Ebilruler 2 points3 points ago

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Eh I believe it should be taught, but taught as a myth like any other ancient belief, the Judeo-Chritian myth is no different, its literature and architecture does affect us today (that being the only good things I can think of that come from it), just like ancient Greece and the Romans, but teaching religion as fact along with creationism? No.

[–]ZiggityHuff 2 points3 points ago

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kind of like greek mythology

[–]Jswizzy84 4 points5 points ago

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Public schools can teach religion as long as they do not promote one religion or sect before another. Most school systems just don't want to hassle with the drama and red tape of having religion classes or see it has part of world history.

Ironically one of the reasons why religion isn't taught in schools anymore is because of the archbishop of New York, John Hughes. Dagger John, as he was called, wanted to obtain state funding for Catholic schools in New York which were Protestant at the time. He used the Catholic objection to the use of the King James version of the Bible as rouse to claim religious discrimination and demand equal funding for Catholic schools. The state rejected his bill to fund catholic school and did away with the use of the KJB in schools instead. The secularization of the school system was never his goal.

[–]think_free 1 point2 points ago

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No issue with that at all. Religious studies should be taught to all students if we want them to understand human history properly.

[–]zenlite 0 points1 point ago

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You really don't need to understand religions to understand the role of religions in history, you just need to understand hierarchy.

[–]instapunish 0 points1 point ago

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I think the problem is that the possibility for the regional religion would have a very high probability of being given preference over the others. If I could make it so that all religions were taught with the exception of the primary religion, I'd be all for it. We all know that wouldn't go over because the main reason "people" want religion taught in school is so theirs will be taught.

[–]shortkid123 0 points1 point ago

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We learn this well enough in my ap world history class imo.

[–]Ragnrok 0 points1 point ago

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Honest question here, would it really be that bad for religion to be taught in public schools - if they were taught non-evangelically?

They are. I got the spark notes of most major world religions between 8th and somethingth grades.

[–]TwoTacoTuesdays 0 points1 point ago

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Certainly. I'd imagine you wouldn't be able to find a public university in the nation that didn't include The Bible in a historical literature class.

[–]breakbread 0 points1 point ago

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The problem is teaching it objectively in public grade schools. There's absolutely no way you're going to please every one within reason, so it's easier to just not deal with it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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But which religion? Sure we could put Mormon chaplains in every school to spread the good word, but what about Scientology chaplains? They will want to be represented too. And what about the Ultra Orthodox Jews? They will want a presence in every school. But they won't want other religions to have female chaplains. So how do we work this out if Scientology wants to have female chaplains spreading the good word about Xenu? Will they take it in shifts so they don't offend each other?

See, it's all a big mess. It's easier to just not spread any religion in schools.

[–]Namiriel 0 points1 point ago

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The Bible can already be taught as literature in American public schools. That's a non-issue. And you can already discuss religious culture in history classes.

Teaching the fables within a bronze age book are literal and factual accounts of human history, that's a different matter.

[–]brezzz 0 points1 point ago

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If the church operates as a non profit, they would not be taxed much anyway. I don't' really see the hypocrisy in the situation, which I'm convinced that you were going for, just the defiance of the intent of the framers of the constitution.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Has anybody else ever thought this guy's head is just simply enormous? We have a five-head here.

[–]deefrances 0 points1 point ago

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leave mike seaver alone-he didnt go into the bathroom with boner

[–]Tbonethedstroyer -1 points0 points ago

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Churches don't pay taxes?

Or do you mean they should be taxed again?

The members all pay taxes at their various jobs and you think the already taxed money they are donating should be taxed again?

Fucking democrats. . . How do they work?

[–]ThirdDegreeRape 0 points1 point ago

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You could use that same logic to say that any organization shouldn't pay taxes. All money that doesn't come directly from the government has already been taxed.

You're saying that if an organization recieves money that has already been taxed, then they should be able to operate tax-free. What about starbucks, then? I recieve my paycheck and pay my taxes, then take the extra money and go buy coffee. But the money I'm buying coffee with has already been taxed, so according to your own logic we can't charge taxes on Starbucks.

Please explain to me why my Starbucks example is different from a church.

[–]Tbonethedstroyer 0 points1 point ago

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1st off, Starbucks is a FOR PROFIT business with obligations to stockholders, capital investments, employee obligations, payroll taxes and other big words and stuff.

Churches generally don't use their money for. . . paying their members back as if THEY were the employees like Starbucks.. . Most of the well meaning Churches, believe it or not, DO use the money for benevolence practices.

This of course also enters a fuzzy area whereas the Catholics, for example, are one of the richest organizations in the world. Why? Why do they need to save and hoard all of that wealth? It makes no sense when applying it to the principles that they themselves claim to adhere to.

I digress. . . Maybe there ought to be a law stipulating the maximum allowance for a 501C3 to be set at say 1 mil. $ on the books? And void the Non-profit status after the million? IDk?

That should suffice.

[–]soulsanctuary 0 points1 point ago

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It's okay if you need help we are here for you :) http://www.rainn.org/

[–]soulsanctuary 0 points1 point ago

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It's okay if you need help we are here for you :) http://www.rainn.org/

[–]Nillerz -2 points-1 points ago

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Downvote for image macro

[–]s1thl0rd -4 points-3 points ago

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In all fairness, the members of the Church DO pay taxes. There are better reasons as to why religious folk are scumbags with a heightened sense of entitlement.

[–]LucifersCounsel 2 points3 points ago

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Actually, they can deduct their donations to the church from their taxes, so in fact you could argue that money that would otherwise have been taxed by the government is being given to a church instead, resulting, essentially, in government funding of religion.

[–]Tbonethedstroyer 0 points1 point ago

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False.

You can only deduct up to a certain amount.

[–]LucifersCounsel 0 points1 point ago*

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Up to 50% of taxable income. That's a lot.

Your deduction for charitable contributions is generally limited to 50% of your adjusted gross income, but in some cases 20% and 30% limits may apply. See Limits on Deductions, later.

...

50% Limit Organizations

You can ask any organization whether it is a 50% limit organization, and most will be able to tell you. Or you may check IRS Publication 78 (described earlier).

Only the following types of organizations are 50% limit organizations.

Churches and conventions or associations of churches.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p526/ar02.html#en_US_2010_publink1000229649

You ever wondered why the Westboro Baptists have a church made up of 40 people yet can afford to spend 200,000 a year on travelling expenses for their protests? Because that family figured out a damn good way to avoid paying taxes while still being bigoted assholes. Tax money that their congregation should pay has been redirected to the church so that it can protest at funerals.

[–]Tbonethedstroyer 0 points1 point ago

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Your argument is basically broken down as "one person does so everyone else does it too"

It's just false.

In Westboro's case, they use the money for a cause that they believe in. If you think their cause is unjust then that's your opinion just as theirs is another. That's how this "freedom" thing works.

[–]soulsanctuary 0 points1 point ago

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It's okay if you need help we are here for you :) http://www.rainn.org/

[–]soulsanctuary 0 points1 point ago

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It's okay if you need help we are here for you :) http://www.rainn.org/

[–]s1thl0rd 0 points1 point ago

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True, yet they still pay taxes on other portions of their income so... They are still taxpayers.

[–]LucifersCounsel 0 points1 point ago

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I believe the maximum they can deduct is up to 50% of their taxable income. That's a pretty big discount. Still the point was being made that churches don;t pay taxes, then it was said that the people who donate to the churches pay taxes, but they do not pay tax on the part donated to the church. The church itself is tax exempt. It doesn't have to pay the taxes on that donated money, and neither does the person who donated it.

[–]Christian_And_Proud -4 points-3 points ago

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It really should be taught in schools. Even if you poor people don't believe in our Lord, the most popular and important topic in our world today needs to be broadcasted to our youth. Hopefully this attitude will die soon, and the word of Jesus Christ will reach our later generations, and once again Christianity will dominate our thought processes. Don't be so closed minded.

[–]kreaturesleeper[S] 1 point2 points ago

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first day of trolling not going so well huh?

[–]Vormav 0 points1 point ago

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Once more, with feeling.