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Irony (imgur.com)
submitted 7 months ago by Whiskeybent341
[–]tomkandy 352 points353 points354 points 7 months ago
Irony
[–]wintremute 111 points112 points113 points 7 months ago
Too bad that nickel isn't made of nickel.
[–]liveoakhef 123 points124 points125 points 7 months ago
I think it's like a quarter nickel.
[–]wintremute 48 points49 points50 points 7 months ago
Hmm, after checking Wikipedia, it appears that you are correct. I was under the impression that they were clad zinc over copper, much like pennies are copper over zinc.
TIL.
[–]MikkelHof 28 points29 points30 points 7 months ago
much like penises are copper over zinc
Wait what?.. oh never mind.. I just watched Spartacus.
[–]DrAwesomeClaws 14 points15 points16 points 7 months ago
Oz... where the HBO writers take you on an amazing journey <LOOK AT THIS PRISON WANG> through the heart of our <LOOK AT THIS PRISON WANG> prison industrial <BIG GIANT BLACK PRISON WANG!> complex.
[–]BoonTobias 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
So it's like oz then?
[–]taffystolemyteeth 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
less clothes and more hetero sex. but yeah, pretty much the same show
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 7 months ago*
Thomas was a deist, he believed in God.
[–]Djalohr 33 points34 points35 points 7 months ago
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-Thomas Jefferson
[–]F22Rapture 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
Upvote for my favorite Jefferson quote.
[–]PizzaSammy 16 points17 points18 points 7 months ago*
Wrong president friend.
Edit: The post before me used to say George.
[–]flanl 7 points8 points9 points 7 months ago
His pastor, the one whose comments drove him from attending church whenever the sacrament of eucharist was to be administered after the pastor had criticized him for leaving church before the eucharist, is said to have responded, "He was a deist, sir!" when asked if GW was a Christian.
ninjaedit: check out this book, it's worth the read
ninjaedit: check out
[–]YourphobiaMyfetish 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
He expressed a passionate belief in a god, and in Jesus as a moral teacher, not a miracle-performer.
[–]zugi 10 points11 points12 points 7 months ago
Portrait is of Thomas, but still a deist.
[–]wintremute 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
He was a Deist, so he believed in a concept of god, but not a practical application if that god, nor belief in the more modern idea of a "personal god". In modern terms, he would most likely be considered an agnostic apatheist.
[–]vdirequest 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
IIRC, they would say they believed in "Nature's God", the one who created the Earth.
[–]weissensteinburg 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago*
Farther down it says that since 2000, they've been made of plated steel.
EDIT: added 'r' to 'farther'
[–]chrome_slinky 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Who is Father down it?
[–]B0Boman 7 points8 points9 points 7 months ago
Wouldn't a quarter nickel be more like a penny? (1.25 pennies to be exact)
[–]kencole54321 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
If we're going to nickel and dime here, a quarter nickel would be 1.25 cents not pennies.
[–]greenthinker 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
What's the difference the value of a penny is 1 cent?
[–]1baussguy 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
the official name is the one cent piece, not the penny, unlike British currency which actually says one penny on it, our money only says one cent on it.
So while there isn't really a difference, if you're going to nickel and dime, there is.
[–]indigent3 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Written on the nickel is "FIVE CENTS". I think only the quarter and dime actually display their name whilst the nickel and penny display their value.
[–]1baussguy 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
yeah, I think the penny got its name just because of English heritage, and the nickel from what it's made of. Of course the names dime and quarter are the ones that actually make sense too(meaning one tenth and one fourth).
[–]aurisor 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Cent's etymology derives from the term for 100th of something. Like percent.
[–]wintremute 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
If you were an immigrant to a new world (maybe on some other planet, in the future) and someone handed you a small copper coin of the lowest denomination, wouldn't you call it a penny? I would. That's how the US $0.01 coin came to be called a penny.
[–][deleted] 7 months ago
[deleted]
[–]GenuineMeatloaf 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
No no, a quarter nickel is 30 cents.
[–]AffeKonig 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
So can I pass these off as quarters then?
[–]Gusteau 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
In 2004, this nickel WAS a quarter...
[–]bojang1es 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Oh the irony!
[–]weissensteinburg 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
[Fixed]
[–]byoonbyoon 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Came here to make this exact joke, thinking I was clever and unique...
[–]Grammar-Hitler 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Came for the joke about nickel being irony, left despising mankind.
[–]skraptastic 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I always thought irony was the opposite of wrinkley. - TIL
[–]convis 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
cast iron is super irony
[–]fallens 224 points225 points226 points 7 months ago*
Deliberate repost.
Also he was a deist, he still believed in a God. But he believed in separation between church and state. There is a difference. He wasn't a non-believer, (to Christianity yes, but to a deity in general no) but he wanted a separation between church & state.
[–]icanseestars 45 points46 points47 points 7 months ago
He actually re-wrote the Bible to be more to his liking.
Not a non-believer, just a really cool guy. I imagine today he would have been agnostic at best though.
[–]ArecBardwin 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
By definition Deists are not agnostic. They believe in a creator.
[–]F22Rapture 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
You misunderstand agnosticism. Theism is what one believes. Gnosticism is what one knows/claims to know. I can be a deist and believe in the deist god without claiming to be undeniably correct. I can be an atheist and not believe in god without claiming "god doesn't exist." Conversely gnosticism is claiming that your beliefs are correct. Agnostic is an adjective not a noun.
[–]ArecBardwin 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
From wiki
In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify knowledge of whether God exists or does not.
Now wiki's definition of Deism
Deism in religious philosophy is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an all-powerful creator.
These are clearly not overlapping philosophies. Deists believe that observing the natural world reveals the existence of a creator. Agnostics on the other hand say, "there is no way to know one way or the other." Deists respond, "there is a way to know; just look at the natural world."
[–]fallens 27 points28 points29 points 7 months ago
I'd have to disagree. People like him and Thomas Paine seem to have been the step before confident atheism, they pointed out logical fallices of religion and belief is personal gods, but could not make the leap and dismiss religion entirely for they (civilization) were not equipped with Scientific knowledge like Evolution and the Big Bang. With their strong sense of reason and rationale and today's knowledge of the Universe, I'd highly doubt that they wouldn't be atheists.
[–]DrAwesomeClaws 19 points20 points21 points 7 months ago*
That's one thing I think we have to remember. For a long time (up until very recently), there were no solid scientific answers for many of the questions religion reconciled for people.
We, as secularists or atheists, get frustrated over how many people still address serious decisions with ancient, mythical fairy tails; and we sometimes forget that these stories have been part of the human psyche for thousands of years. It's not until the past few generations that we've even gotten a handle on the basics of how the universe works.
The move toward a secular society is happening quite quickly, it just seems slow from our human perspective.
[–]fallens 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago*
Yes that is a very important distinction that you need you need to remember while studying history, particulary the ever-changing zeitgeist.
Now with the knowledge we now have, it is very easy to deduce the idea that there is no god. But for a substantial change in the beliefs of the masses, that will take another few centuries or so.
edit - grammar
[–]chazysciota 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
All the more reason that Deism was pretty remarkable back in the day. Without any solid proof, these guys just kind of sussed it out.
[–]fallens 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Ehh I wouldn't say that. The way things were going conveniently attributed to the enlightenment, don't you think? Ever so that it seems that, indeed, it was not sheer coincidence but an outcome to the maturity of civilization. It was the climax of reason and though that had ever been seen in the history of man, the entire period, not the men alone.
What I'm trying to say is that you didn't see a group of thinkers in 6000 BCE dismissing the notion of a sun god and a moon god and utilizing reason. It wasn't like there was a bunch of sudden neurologically superior people born at the same time... People reacted to change, they became deistic, because of breaking away from the dark ages that was happening all over the western world.
[–]incredulous_ape 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
This is the first thought about religion that has made me happy in a good while. I think you hit the nail on the head. It's difficult feeling like most people around you are living in the distant past when the scientific wonders of the future seem so apparent to me. I mean, we eradicated smallpox. Give it up for science! Thanks.
[–]loftybri 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
that's your opinion
[–]fallens 8 points9 points10 points 7 months ago
Opinion supported by reasonable claims.
[–]ILoveAMp 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Agnostics are the ultimate non-believers
[–]fallens 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
I would say they are the ultimate fence sitters.
Gnostic atheists are the ultimate non-believers.
[–]ILoveAMp 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Gnostic atheists believe in nothing.
Agnostics don't believe. They are non-believers.
[–]normal_verb_raucher 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
On an unrelated note, I find it funny that his bible begins with taxes and ends with death.
[–]NothingsShocking 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
TIL. Thanks.
[–]chemistry_teacher 8 points9 points10 points 7 months ago
He wasn't a non-believer, (to Christianity yes, but to a deity in general no)
He appeared to identify as Christian quite readily, just not institutionally so. He was quite willing to adopt many moral preachings, as evident in quotes found here and in the fact that he took the time to rewrite entire books of the Bible.
This is particularly interesting since many Christians today are active believers despite having no desire to connect with any denomination or larger institution. Some may surmise that Jefferson would have been an atheist today, but he could just as easily have been a very devout believer after his own kind of faith.
[–]fallens 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
He did not re-write the bible out of love for it, he re-wrote it to humorisly 'fix' it and point out odd parts or things he disagreed with.
He might've called himself a Christian on some accounts, but it is very evident that he was deistic from other writings of his.
[–]lschmidt814 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
That is true. He took out all of the miracles and other parts that made no scientific sense.
[–]admiralallahackbar 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago*
Almost correct, but not quite.
First, as far as I know, he only rewrote the gospels, not the whole Bible, and this endeavor was not intended as a public statement. Until it was found and published in the mid-early 1800s, the Jefferson Bible was simply his own modified testament that he kept for himself. And so, second, Jefferson's Bible was not created ironically or with humor in mind. He did rewrite the gospels out of an appreciation for the philosophy of the man Jesus; he just didn't believe in the divinity of Christ or the miraculous. Jefferson would count himself among those described by Bertrand Russell who view Jesus as a great man, among the best, but do not buy into the mythology surrounding him.
He was a deist, but some have called him a Unitarian because he viewed Christ through the same lens that, say, atheistic Buddhists view Buddha. He even called himself "a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be." That remark smacks with appeasement, of course, because Jefferson lived in a time when rejecting the orthodoxy held even greater consequences than today, but there is plenty of reason to believe that Jefferson privately thought Jesus to be worth some attention as a philosopher, though not as a son of god.
[–]shortcord 7 points8 points9 points 7 months ago
I could be mistaken, but I believe he (and James Madison) both attended church services in the Capitol Building, as well. The idea of what separation of church and state looks like has evolved tremendously over the past 300 or so years.
[–]DoodleVnTaintschtain 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
So has "all men are created equal," but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
[–]Krispyz 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
How do these posts get upvoted to frontpage when they're simply wrong?
[–]fallens 16 points17 points18 points 7 months ago*
Because this subreddit (along with others) is what is considered 'circlejerk', because people will skew reality in order to get atheism out of it. r/politics is a circlejerk skewing reality to make the U.S. government seem much more corrupt than it is and to make Libertarianism the ideal political ideology, r/trees skewing reality so that it seems marijuana is not only a positive thing but a drug that is apparently highly beneficial, that almost all famous people have tried, and that everyone would be smoking it if it weren't for the laws.
Most of the people on r/atheism don't really know what they are talking about or what they're upvoting. I'm saying that as an atheist, not disagreeing on the basis of religion, but just pointing out the community is indifferent to the validity of most of the posts and wants a constant 'circlejerk' no matter if it entirely dismisses reason in the conversation, e.g. saying the Catholic Church has NEVER funded Science and has deliberately tried to stop it in every way. That was actually a conversation on here that I saw. They couldn't have been more wrong. Again not saying that the Catholic Church is a force of good in the world, just saying that saying the above is just, as you said, simply wrong.
It is disappointing. We'd have so much more validity in the world if we'd all actually accept what has happened and is happening instead of twisting facts to meet our expectations. The Catholic Church encouraged Copernicus to publish his work that the earth revolved around the sun. Does not mean they maintained that viewpoint, they did persecute Galileo pretty hard, but it was not all black and white.
[–]fallens 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago*
Yeah and talk about irony, the original theory of the big bang was developed by a Catholic priest!
edits - I was typing on my phone.
[–]Taceth 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Whatever the case, the irony still stands.
"In god we trust" placed on the most tangible symbol of the state identity in anybody's everyday life, the coin; and the face of someone who strongly believed in separation of church and state near it.
I'd say it's ironic enough whether he was a deist or not.
Agreed.
Not agreeing with the ironic part, it is ironic because of his stance on theocratic encroachment, but solely on the part of the image where it claims that Thomas Jefferson was a non-believer is false.
[–]bbty 11 points12 points13 points 7 months ago
Hello, I'm here to downvote any references to Alanis Morisette.
[–]No_More_And_Then 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Y'know, Alanis Morisette actually played God in a movie once. There has got to be a low probability of that having happened. Isn't that a strange coincidence?
[–]IthinkIthink 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago
At least this is actually ironic.
[–]q111210 188 points189 points190 points 7 months ago
more irony: only in america do we inscribe "in god we trust" and "liberty" on the same coin
[–]on_the_redpill 20 points21 points22 points 7 months ago
yes, I made you guilty, and now you must submit to me to get into the great lala land. Do it or burn forEVER.
sweet sweet freedom
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 7 months ago
No man, its your choice.
Just like when the robber has their gun to your head. Its your choice if you want to live or die. Free will bro
[–]bilabrin 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Another still. The most widely circulated federal reserve note (The $20) bears the picture of the man who killed the 2nd central bank (Andrew Jackson).
[–]yep45 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Where is the irony there?
[–]powercow 9 points10 points11 points 7 months ago
he did not beleive in a god, you could "trust". He believed in a god that did not effect the world in anyway. He rewrote the bible to take the paranormal out of it.
and yes he was closer to an atheist today than a religious person, back then deism was about as close as you could get.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
rewrites bible for something he doesn't believe in. right.
yeah, you are dead wrong. he was a christian who like every other christian takes from it what he wants.
he was raised episcopalian as were most of the educated men of his age and he still believed in god as a personal matter.
[–]bsd300d 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Thank you. These fucking atheists are so pathetic.
[–]rjcarr 12 points13 points14 points 7 months ago
He was a deist, at best, which means he would almost certainly be an atheist today. The deists of that era were the atheists of today. Plus, he was a politician, so even then he couldn't truly say what he felt.
[–]ajwhitla 55 points56 points57 points 7 months ago
I think it would be best to say he wasn't religious. And the phrase "In God we trust" is a religious phrase.
Jefferson did not trust in a god.
[–]AlexProbablyKnows 7 points8 points9 points 7 months ago*
Definitely a deist. Probably an atheist. We'll never really know
Some quotes
'He wrote that the teachings of Jesus contain the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man."'
Also, he was never a member of a congregation in the later parts of his lief.
[–]RandomExcess 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
For the love of all that is holy, use a line break when in Code-Mode.
[–]Not-A-Theist 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
[–]eekadeeka 9 points10 points11 points 7 months ago
How can you be definitely a deist and probably an atheist? If someone is definitely a deist, they can't be an atheist.
[–]ajwhitla 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
I don't understand why he even needs to be an atheist. Being a nonreligious deist is enough to prove the point that using the phrase "in god we trust" around him ironic.
[–]zxcv73 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
My eyes are crossing from this crap. They are pushing atheism on the founding fathers like Republicans push Christianity on them. That is the true irony here.
[–]chemistry_teacher 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
almost certainly be an atheist today
This is like shooting in the dark. One cannot surmise what he would have thought. The paradigm shifts in society since then make it far too difficult to presume anything about that.
[–]TOOBADBLACKSMITH 26 points27 points28 points 7 months ago
No, it certainly doesn't mean that he would be an atheist today. Deists firmly believe in the existence of a deity.
[–]enkmar 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
probably because the alternative was not at all acceptable in society back then
[–]TheGreatSaintJiub 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
I think that with the advanced scientific knowledge we have today, any deist of the past would be much more likely to be atheist today. Back then theories such as The Big Bang and evolution weren't around, so you needed an idea in some deity for the world to really make sense.
[–]apalms 8 points9 points10 points 7 months ago
How does the Big Bang/Evolution contradict a deity?
[–]ChaplainTappman 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
I don't think he's saying it contradicts it, but that in the absence of those phenomena the only possible explanation was a deity. Nowadays, w have alternatives to the possibility of God - and they may even be taken as complementary to God.
[–]40kfreak 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Deism is the belief in a divine architect, the concept of a deity creating a world designed to run by itself.....not the same thing as atheism
[–]zxcv73 10 points11 points12 points 7 months ago*
Get over it already. The founding fathers all believed in a god. Nothing makes them Atheist today, except for your illusion. There is no Irony here. Jefferson trusted in a god. That's all the coin says. If you want real irony, Jefferson was adamantly opposed to a central bank, and now the paper money with his face on it says "Federal Reserve Note" on the top in big letters. That's fucking irony.
[–]wellAdjustedSC 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
The declaration of independence drew directly on locke's concept of god given rights. It would not be as it is if Jefferson did not believe in a creator.
[–]xavier47 8 points9 points10 points 7 months ago
Thomas Paine, was definitely a founding father and a brave atheist
John Adams said "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
James Madison said "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
and Deism was the only socially acceptable atheism at the time...even years later, during the French revolution, the first "modern" atheism papers were written under a pseudonym to protect from idiot god fearing mobs
[–]moralnihilist 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Religion /= belief in a god
[–]mayonnnnaise 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Dude we can zing your right back with rebuttals. You have to take a comprehensive look. None of these men were strict atheists and the majority were not strict church goers. Most believed in something called "divine providence" which is essentially a thankful, faithful sentiment.
Paine: "I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life." -"Age of Reason", Pg 1.
Again, belief in deity is a belief in god. Not an atheist, whether you think they would be today or not has no difference on history and is just conjecture. Simply because some Deists where atheists doesn't make all Deists atheists. Jefferson did believe in god. No irony here, it doesn't say in Christian god we trust.
[–]xavier47 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
but a Deist wouldn't trust in god...Deists largely believed that god did not interact in our world.
[–]Geruvah 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
So you're saying it should say, "In a god we trust."
[–]poli421 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Deists are not Atheists... Deism is the belief in "god", or whatever definition you give to a higher power, but the overall rejection of more religious things like miracles and superstitions. A very famous example for Deism would be the "clockmaker" example.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
No, he was not a deist. He actively prayed to God and attended church.
[–]tuscanspeed 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Jefferson's belief or non belief in a deity is not the same "God" that is engraved on that coin.
[–]spirit_spine 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Don't be a jackass. You know that everyone in the U.S. sees that and thinks "Oh, it's the Christian God, the only God there is!"
[–]afterbirthbuffet 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
Which other god is named "God" or referred to as such?
Honest question here
[–]shortcord 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
There is a very real possibility that it could be referring to the deist ideal of a creator-god just like Jefferson was referring to in The Declaration of Independence. Not saying that's the case, but it wouldn't be unprecedented.
[–]afterbirthbuffet 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I know the history of the phrase on the paper currency better than coinage, so correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it put on there as an indication that God (the christian one) favored the North during the civil war?
[–]shortcord 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
I actually never knew that part of the history, but it appears to be along those lines. Interestingly enough, It was suggested to be put on coins by Lincoln's Treasury Secretary, Salmon Chase, who would eventually become the Chief Justice of SCOTUS. It just goes to show how much the idea of Separation of Church and State has evolved over our history.
The organization that pushed for it (Knights of Columbus) was a Catholic organization. They most definitely weren't pushing a universal, deist god.
[–]wahwahwildcat 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Islam refers to God as Allah, Arabic for Lord... and its even the same God, the God of Abraham. Soooooo yeahhh
[–]glasschamber 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
the "God" signified in the concept of "ceremonial deism"
[–]onionhammer 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Isn't "ceremonial deism" just something which was made up to get around separation of church and state? To me it reeks of lawyering.
[–]Whiskeybent341[S] 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
There are historians who would disagree with that.
[–]ScubaPlays 45 points46 points47 points 7 months ago
And there are historians that would disagree with you. The simple fact is that his religious beliefs are unknown.
[–]natophonic 38 points39 points40 points 7 months ago
The simple fact is that his religious beliefs are unknown.
Best kind of American President!
[–]WillBlaze 9 points10 points11 points 7 months ago
And the kind of President we will never see in our lifetime.
[–]enkmar 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
President Thomas Jefferson? lol
[–]mdmcgee 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
You might find the Jeffersonian Bible to be a dead giveaway. He took the bible and removed all the "magic" references. Of all the founding fathers we have a pretty darn good idea concerning the faith of both Jefferson & Thomas Paine.
[–]WoollyMittens 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
His beliefs are unknown, therefor you assumed he was religious in your original statement?
[–]toastyghost 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
oh yeah? well there are historians who would call you a fat douche. also my historians can beat up your historians.
[–]JakoffSmirnov 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
This isn't entirely true, there's a good amount of information about what he believed through his personal writings.
One thing is VERY clear, he was not a Christian.
He flatly did not believe in the resurrection or any of the miracles performed by Jesus, or the virgin birth. He spells it out very clearly in his writings. The less clear aspect of his beliefs are if he believed in anything at all beyond a "creator."
The "Jefferson Bible" is the most famous, where he cut out all of the supernatural aspects of the new testament and created one focused on moral teachings. He reduced it to 46 pages, called The Life and Morals of Jesus.
You can get a quick overview from wikipedia.
They also have an article about Jefferson and religion.
My favorite biography of Jefferson (easy to read, it's more casual) is Willard Sterne Randall's "Thomas Jefferson, A Life." I also enjoyed "Jefferson and Monticello" by Jack McLaughlin.
He's an exceedingly complex, interesting, and flawed person, but one of the greatest things about him is just how much he wrote and how much we know about his beliefs, even when he was struggling to figure them out himself.
[–]spirit_spine 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
There are historians who would disagree that there are other historians who would disagree? ಠ_ಠ
[–]mega05 20 points21 points22 points 7 months ago
. . . and engrave Liberty next to the portrait of a slave owner.
[–]BoonTobias 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
slave fucker
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
A Muslim scholar no less. He studied the Qu'ran extensively. And wrote his own Bible with just the Gospels excerpts concerning ethics (the Jeffersonian Bible) and is considered the founder of a theology of Jeffersonian Christendom which is deist heavy.
[–]ar0cketman 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Exactly this. Though you go a bit far calling him a Muslim scholar because he studied the Qu'ran. He studied very broadly, delving in pretty much every philosophy of the day. His breadth was such that after the Capitol library burned in the war of 1812, his personal library became the core of the Library of Congress.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago*
A prolific man in American history. I would argue he stands toe to toe with Lincoln and FDR in historical significance. They aren't taking one of those weird all our feet are in this picture things either. It has been argued, with some relevance, that his writing about natural rights was influenced by the Qu'ran. I think that John Locke, David Hume, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau were the biggest contributors by proxy, but he certainly took many actions in his life that was more in line with Qu'ranic values than Biblical values. Actions like freeing various slaves (and pushing for legislation regarding abolition) and certain beliefs in charity and public trust that are far more Muslim in nature than Christian. I think it's safe to say that reading the Qu'ran influenced his writing of the Jeffersonian Bible. Revisionist Bibles are fascinating because they reveal a largely Muslim idea that Jesus was a prophet, but the Bible has failed to present his revealed word. I think that's the interesting thing about studying the Qu'ran. The oldest Qu'ran in existence is from 16 years after the Prophet Mohammed's (PBUH) death whereas liberal estimates of age of the Gospel of Mark (the oldest) dates it 60 years after his death. Given the life expectancy of Jesus's time there is no way an eyewitness wrote even the oldest gospel. Islam relies on written tradition and Christianity on the oral tradition which is the major source of misreading the bible as a historicism of any kind. Another thing of note was that the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was said, in a Hadith, to have met a monk when he was a boy and the monk taught him about Christianity and of course there are some interesting bits in there about the monk recognizing Mohammed's (PBUH) significance at a young age. Note: PBUH=peace be upon him As part of my classical training in Islam I was taught Muslims use this as a blessing. I am not a Muslim (thus far) but recognize it as a title.
[–]fool_of_a_took 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
Irony? More like... Nickely.
[–]nick2345 6 points7 points8 points 7 months ago
Jefferson was a deist. Here's a definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deistic
He was not exactly a Christian, but by no means a non-believer.
[–]FaramirofWI 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
Jefferson took the time to "write" his own bible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
http://americanhistory.si.edu/jeffersonbible/
I haven't read it, but apparently he took the new testament and removed all supernatural events. I'm not sure what that says about his belief or lack of belief in a Christian God.
[–]roccco 8 points9 points10 points 7 months ago
Compare to this early American penny. (Yes, long before we were inscribing our currency with "God", we were inscribing it with "Science".)
[–]aeeeee 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
There is irony here but not for the reason in this picture. Jefferson was a "deist" and though he believed in a God he would have called him "The Creator." We do know that Jefferson attended church and gave sermons, I don't think he would qualify what this subreddit considers to be an "atheist" though he is a lot closer to modern atheism than he is to modern Christianity. What I think is ironic about this picture is that I think we can be sure that Jefferson would have opposed putting "in god we trust" on our money. A shame really and it's also a shame that this country as strayed so far from the enlightenment and what Jefferson envisioned for America.
[–]emohipster 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Looks embossed to me.
[–]brotoro 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Get something wrong on reddit, still get upvotes. Like emboss.
[–]killjoy95 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
It's not that he didn't believe in god, he just believed that religious persecution wasn't the way America was supposed to work.
[–]zoozoo458 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
The irony isn't that they put "In god we trust" next to a non-believer (he was a deist) but that they put a endorsement of religion next to some one who supported separation of church and state.
[–]Illinformedpseudoint 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
"The use of words expressing something than their literal intention, now that IS irony!"
[–]apollyon07 9 points10 points11 points 7 months ago
Jefferson wasn't an atheist, he was a deist.
[–]dianthe 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Jefferson was not an atheist, he was a deist.
[–]chemistry_teacher 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
So much of what I am reading here is conjecture and supposition, and many redditors seem to be ready to categorize Jefferson to fit whatever mold (or rose-colored glasses) suits them. But Jefferson was a far more complex thinker on religion and Christianity than many of these comments give him credit for.
Based on the quoted letter to Benjamin Rush found here, one might leave feeling rather conflicted whether Jefferson was truly religious, atheist, agnostic, or somewhere in between. He takes the moral opinion that faith must go alongside works ("I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it."), and he appears to be quite familiar with and supportive of the text of the Bible and its teachings ("I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others").
Meanwhile, it is well known that he wrote his own edited Bible, sifting out the miracles, etc. and seeking to prefer the morality.
Taking Jefferson at his word, he was surely a skeptic, but to go so far as to declare him an "unbeliever" might be exceeding his own opinions on the matter.
To call Jefferson an unbeliever is to invoke the "no true non-Scotsman" fallacy. Jefferson is too complex a character to pigeonhole into such an anachronistic label.
[–]ASCII-redditor 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
/`-_ . /`-._ / `-_ /\ / \ / `-_ `-_/ \ ___/___/___________`-_______/____\____ | _____ _____ _____ ___ __ __ _\|/| | |_ _| _ | _ | \ | | \ /--+-- | | | | |_) | | | | \| |\ ` /|\| |\|_| |_| < |_| | |\ | \ / | --+--___|_|\__|_____|__| \___| |___| | |/|\___________________________________| \ \ \ /,_ /\ / eeg \ /\ _\ / `'-+/ \/ ` \,-'` \/
[–]vdirequest 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
You know, there's a form to just ask Thomas Jefferson about his religion if you want:
http://www.jeffersonhour.com/what_would_tj_do.html
[–]icanhazpoop 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
he wasnnnt a non-believer persay... what kinnnd of non believer revises the bible, who takes the time to do that w/out faith??
[–]Facepalm69 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Its ironic because he hated fiat currency.
He believed in God.
[–]moralnihilist 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Except Jefferson was a believer. None of the founding fathers were full atheist. Deism is as far as they went. Stop spreading misinformation, Kthxbye.
[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 7 months ago*
Right before everyone jumps on the "He is a deist so believes in God" bandwagon, you should take time to remember the following facts:
So yes, this is irony. My up vote for you, Whiskeybent341.
Saying Jefferson is a Deist is too simplistic for the man, even if he might have self-identified with the term. To call Jefferson an unbeliever is to invoke the "no true non-Scotsman" fallacy.
[–]fallens 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
I (and the others) never stated that he would want the Christian God on money. What I was getting at is that the OP (well, the person who made the picture that the uploader reposted) called Thomas Jefferson a non-believer, i.e. an atheist. He was not an atheist, nor was most enlightened people of the time, for they did have the necessary Scientific data to support a godless universe.
[–]inikul 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
5 months ago · 165,819 views
These reposts are getting lazier...
[–]Blahblahblahinternet 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
It's also slightly ironic that you claim to know what Mr. Jefferson believed.
[–]SacredOrigin 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago*
What's even more ironic is the self proclaimed constitutionalist conservatives that believe America is a christian nation even though the founding fathers explicitly stated that it wasn't
[–]Supora 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
You should have bolded explicitly.
[–]Yeargdribble 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
You are all so wrong making claims about him being a deist or a non-believer. I have incontrovertible proof that Jefferson was a Christian.
The founding fathers were Christians. Our nation was founded on the Christian religion.
Jefferson was a founding father.
Therefore, Jefferson was a Christian. You can't argue against that with facts and other such BS.
[–]BionicJuice 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
I've always liked nickels.
[–]Tritonio 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Deists do not trust in God. Trusting in God (to help you, that's what the phrase implies), is not something a deist would do since it requires a personal God. So either way it's irony at its best.
[–]yep45 5 points6 points7 points 7 months ago
Jefferson believed in God. Irony: the subreddit that claims to be about rationality doesn't have its basic facts straight
[–]MrsHippie 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I'm no expert, but I don't think that is called engraving.
[–]PretzelFucker 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Emboss*
[–]ConcordApes 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
The Thomas Jefferson Bible:
http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/62/The_Jefferson_Bible_The_Life__Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth_1.html
[–]bscoder 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Shhh, or they'll take him off there and put some religious nut in his place.
[–]hebruise 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Irony: Andrew Jackson on The US $20 Bill.
[–]havesometea1 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
He was a deist, as everyone else said, but I believe many people claimed to be deists then to avoid being burned at the stake.
[–]colinmurphy00 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
That's not what irony is.
[–]PhilmoreBowles 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Opinion as Fact, eh? Very scientific.
[–]onewerd 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Being an advocate for the separation of church and state is not the same as being atheist.
[–]dak58 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Am I crazy, or is that the shiniest nickel you've ever seen?
[–]lschmidt814 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Jefferson was not a theist, however, he was more than likely a deist. He believed that a supernatural being created the universe but he didn't believe that he had any influence on the day to day affairs of mankind, nor did he communicate with them. Dawkins speculates that if Jefferson had lived in our time that he would have been an atheist, however he lived 200 years ago.
[–]WyoVolunteer 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
So this is more ironic than a slave owner writing the Declaration of Independence?
[–]BeastWriter 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Yes, also an immoral footloose bastard who owned slaves he knocked up on a regular basis
[–]fani 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Another irony - Christians worship a guy who didn't follow his own religion
(and was a non-believer of his own religion he was born into).
[–]xKumo 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
That's the most beautiful nickle I've ever seen.
[–]FinancialAdvisorKid 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Actually, the irony is that he wasn't a dick about it.
[–]phazenator 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Propaganda: To make people associate something to something it is not.
[–]TheyCallMeC0WB0Y 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I'm just here to laugh at the irony of all the atheists who like their revisionist history as much as the Christians they hate.
[–]FellowExile 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Jefferson was a Deist. He believed in god alright. However he did fight tooth and nail against the role church played in the state. Ex; he fought to get rid of religious tests to obtain public office.
Source: http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Jefferson-Author-America-Eminent/dp/0060598964
[–]CMiles123 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
well did you know that Andrew Jackson was against paper money and yet he is on the $20.
[–]rammalammadingdong 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
What about Lincoln? He freed the slaves and they put him on the brown coin. Then they made all of the other presidents face the other way! It's like they turned their backs on him!
[–]dsauce 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Not a non-believer. Dig a little deeper.
[–]thouliha 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
Thomas was not an atheist, he was a deist in the skeptical tradition of Voltaire and the philosophes. Methinks the poster is just trying to get a circle jerk going.
[–]Uberche 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I posted about the death of hitchens on Weibo (Chinese twitter) and one of my students who is Christian said "Now he's in heaven with God!" and I wrote "Well actually he was very famous for not liking religion and was a strong Atheist, so he probably wouldn't agree with you" to which they replied "Oh I see, well God bless him for all his hard work for science". I don't think it's just the USA that has a serious problem with Irony, It seems to be Christianity that does.
[–]alieonicable 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
So a non-factual claim has 7000 upvotes on r/atheism.
Guys, we're embarrassing ourselves.
[–]msweet15 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
He was a Deist you retarded fuck faces
[–]riegnman 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
[–]Biologos101 4 points5 points6 points 7 months ago
Even more Ironic is we print his portrait on Federal Reserve notes when he hated the idea of a central bank in America.
[–]Frogtarius 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I was a believer until i took an arrow to the irony.
[–]Zzzaxx 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
I'd say it's more Coppery or Nickley than Irony
[–]McDeth 2 points3 points4 points 7 months ago
Jefferson wasn't a non-believer in the common sense of the word. He definitely believed in a higher deity, although he loathed the organized religions of the time...
So it's ironic that you make a statement about a believer being a non-believer. Am I doing this right?
[–]Circlejerkle 3 points4 points5 points 7 months ago
Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk Circle jerk
[–]usingpond 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago*
He was in fact a deist, you know, the literal opposite of what everyone who upvoted this believes.
Edit: Maybe that's the real irony here? W H O A
[–]Smelly_Garage 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
I thought Jefferson was a deist?
[–]DayspringMetaphysics 1 point2 points3 points 7 months ago
He sure flaunted his non-belief when he wrote, "we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are CREATED equal and are endowed by their CREATOR..."
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