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811
812

unpleasant truths (i42.tinypic.com)

submitted ago by eriotak

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[–]punkindrublicrpp 29 points30 points ago

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the truths are quite pleasant actually.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 16 points17 points ago

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A lot of them are, but the permanence of death is really not that great. In fact, I'd call it Really Fucking Bad.

[–]aldraek 7 points8 points ago

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Redundancy. The Atheist version of hell?

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 5 points6 points ago

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Oh, the future will be many things, but "redundant" isn't likely to be one of them.

[–]alondor 2 points3 points ago

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Death isn't permanent... everything, every atom that makes me who I am, has existed in one form or another since the beginning of time and will exist until the universe ends. Consciousness is impermanent, it is an accidental by-product of the laws of nature, a gift (if you will indulge me), that allows me to experience the universe I am a part of in a relativistic way (as myself as separate).

What I do with this temporary condition is completely up to me... will I try to be a force for the betterment of all while I enjoy it or will I strive for only myself? I am and always will be a part of this universe. I can be neither created nor destroyed. I will just change composition and form.

The 'truths' are not yet framed in the proper context for people to be able to understand them comfortably, so far... Such are the hazards of perceiving parts of the whole without understanding it in its entirety yet.

We need more modern day philosophers but that discipline seems to have fallen out of favor with the vast majority of people in modern times. They were (and are) very helpful in framing our understanding of reality and exploring the different facets of it.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 2 points3 points ago

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Wait, you said that death isn't permanent and then immediately said that consciousness is impermanent? When you die it doesn't matter if your atoms are still there, you aren't. Also physics as we know it doesn't really allow atoms to have identity, so "my atoms live on" isn't a true statement.

[–]alondor 1 point2 points ago*

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I don't equate 'me' to just my conscious. I am the totality of my being. Consciousness is the by-product (albeit one I enjoy) of the chemical reactions of the compounds that I am composed of... I am the elements that I am composed of not just the intangible thoughts. The thoughts are like a flame is to a fire, it is not the chemical reaction itself but a continuation and result of said reaction. I am (my atoms are) a part of the greater whole whether I am able to perceive it or not. A rock or a plant is just as much a part of the larger whole of the the earth and by consequence the universe as I am, whether it (or I) realizes it or not. Just because we stop being conscious doesn't mean we cease to exist, just the thinking aspect. I (all the atoms that make me) have been through non-consciousness many billions of years before I was born and will be through it many, many, many trillions of years after I cease to perceive the universe but all that I was - still is - and hopefully the intangible part of me will have impacted the world of consciousness (living people) enough to live on in their hearts (minds and emotions) a few years after it has passed.

I know this hasn't been proven yet but it one of my beliefs... Life is how elements burn energy in a certain temperature range - hence the habitable zone for planets. Life is a natural law of the universe. The difference between this and religion is it is quantifiable and if I am proven wrong I will adjust my world view but it is the extrapolation of commonly held scientific theory. It is why we are looking for life elsewhere... It is either a common occurrence in the universe because it is governed by laws we don't fully understand yet or it is unique to our planet because some magical being put us on this rock (the earth) in a backwater, spiral arm of this particular galaxy because he/she needed someone to tell him/her just how great we think magical sky beings are. Not trying to make a false either/or here but it is the way I see it.

EDIT: For clarity... hope I succeeded.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 0 points1 point ago

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I'd agree that consciousness isn't my whole self, but whatever I am exists only in my brain, and when I die it's gone (or at least when my brain starts losing information). You still seem to be defining yourself in terms of the atoms that make you up but with quantum mechanics that's physical nonsense. Your electrons and someone else's electrons are indistinguishable in principle, there is no tag on them that says "electron number 16489755342" so you can identify them. You are an arrangement of atoms, not the atoms themselves.

[–]jonathan5150 5 points6 points ago

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Meh, makes you value your one life a lot more. Makes you want to increase your knowledge of all the real world as much as we can with our short time here. Someday we'll be able to live forever but not in our lifetimes, so enjoy the love of friends and family, and see the beauty in the world. Death isn't so bad, your conscious may end, but the star stuff you're made of is recycled into more of the universe's beauty and wonder. May sound cheesy but it keeps me motivated.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 3 points4 points ago

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No, I know that knowing about it is better than not knowing, but it actually is really, really bad. I don't care which atoms are in my body right now, I am an arrangement of atoms and those atoms don't actually have identity anyway.

[–]jonathan5150 1 point2 points ago

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Why's it so bad? Once your conscious seizes to exist, it won't matter either way. All your loved ones will be with you, transferring molecular arrangements, I think it's quite cool. I understand the missing of them though, but it's something we must all live and die with.

[–]medlish 0 points1 point ago

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Personally, I'd rather be immortal than die soon. The human nature makes me want to increase my knowledge regardless of how much time I have. And I wouldn't say death makes you value your life more. It may. But it's more like it puts you under time pressure. You don't value life more, you value your time more. But isn't taking life easy and having as much time as you want much better?

Death may not be that bad, and I heard dying can be comforting in your final moments, but I want to see the future, not just the immediate future, but the future in 100 years, in 500 years, in 1000 years. It may be a bad future, but I still have to option of suicide. I think dying as an option is much better than it being inevitable. But that's just my point of view, I don't want to change yours and I respect your opinion. I just wanted to voice mine, too.

[–]jonathan5150 1 point2 points ago

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Well I too would rather be immortal until I chose to die, but seeing as we don't have the option yet I'd say the coming of death makes me value my life more. Knowing I will only get to use this mind to change the world and make my mark makes me want to use what short time I have to it's most potential.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 0 points1 point ago

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Well, when I cease to exist there is no "me" for it to matter to, but that doesn't mean I can't prefer life to death. Nonexistence is not a place where you can hang out with your friends. And you can't say it isn't bad just because everyone has to do it. We also get more time to live than our ancestors did, death isn't utterly invincible, we are making progress.

[–]jonathan5150 0 points1 point ago

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I too prefer life to death, as would the grand majority. I'd say it's less of a bad thing knowing everyone is going to face it eventually, but hm. I just can't wait for the future and our immortality. Wish I could see it.

[–]UandV 1 point2 points ago

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posts on reddit

[–]jonathan5150 1 point2 points ago

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I find Reddit to be a great source of information and insight upon things in the world, I've discovered a lot of amazing things on here, besides pictures of cats. :)

[–]charredgravy 1 point2 points ago

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Going to heaven for all eternity must get boring and meaningless after awhile though.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 4 points5 points ago

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Depends which heaven, but I'd say there's probably plenty of cool stuff to do. Enough to be better than utter annihilation, at least. Atheists saying how heaven must be really boring kind of sounds like sour grapes to me. Anyway, our ignorance is all that stands between us and very long lives so we might as well go for it.

[–]charredgravy 0 points1 point ago

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Going to hell would be initially the same as going to heaven, it would never end and would be a meaningless existence. From the way I see it, as an atheist, it is much more meaningful for there to be an ending.

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 0 points1 point ago

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Aaand that sounds like whatever the inverse of sour grapes is, liking something only because it's what you have. If death is what gives meaning to life, then all the dead matter in the universe has more meaningful lives than us. What meaning does death add?

[–]spectraline 0 points1 point ago

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Even when I was a Christian, one of my greatest fears was that I'd get bored in heaven. Eternity is a really long time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Good point, it might actually be quite... hellish.

[–]Aisha11 0 points1 point ago

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I'd call it really fucking awesome. Peaceful.

[–]Fig1024 1 point2 points ago

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There exists no truth that couldn't be sweetened by a little lie

[–]dietotaku 0 points1 point ago

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that depends entirely on your perspective.

[–]ralal 0 points1 point ago

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That means you're in the wrong lane ;)

[–]iemfi 0 points1 point ago

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Sure some things are quite pleasant, but not everyone can appreciate the wonders of science. Then there's death, that evil people won't be punished and really good people aren't saved from a horrible death, that the majority of the world still subscribes to ridiculous BS, that I could accidently run over a kid in my car tomorrow and there wouldn't be a God to stop it from happening.

[–]spaceboundmonkeys 0 points1 point ago

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I think the unpleasant truths aren't truth's at all. I think its refers to the things in like where we don't have any answers, those things in like where we must learn to love the question.

[–]Lirvan 5 points6 points ago

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Relevant xkcd comics about uncomfortable truths to put this in perspective....

http://xkcd.com/561/

http://xkcd.com/568/

[–]AA108 1 point2 points ago

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Relevant SMBC comic, which is awesome

[–]Atheris 1 point2 points ago

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I'd be in line!

[–]krayziepunk13 1 point2 points ago

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This would also be relevant in r/politics

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]eriotak[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks!

[–]real138 0 points1 point ago

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Ignorance is bliss.

[–]easyeight 0 points1 point ago

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Don't worry, this is blatantly false.

[–]spectraline 0 points1 point ago

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My husband tried to pull the "comforting lies" thing just yesterday when he explained why he didn't want our kids to grow up believing in Santa Claus. He told me his grandfather said to him that we could choose the truth or a comforting lie. So I asked him if his grandfather believed in God. He said that yes, he knew God existed because he was alive. I told him that we all tend to choose our comforting lies then facepalmed for a little while.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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This applies to more than just religion, it applies to politics as well. People don't know fuck all about what's actually going on.

[–]MentisinDeum 0 points1 point ago

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like the comforting lies of generalizations

[–]EmpireStijx 0 points1 point ago

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Please stop posting this, it's been posted like 200 times V_V

[–]danmilligan 0 points1 point ago

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Unpleasant truth: The universe was made by God for his own glory Comforting lie: Nobody can tell me what to do

Those are carefully chosen words, think before you type your reply

[–]sccr1313 0 points1 point ago

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higher intelligence usually comes with more depression

[–]Atheris 4 points5 points ago

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I thought that was mental illness and intelligence?

[–]eriotak[S] 2 points3 points ago

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"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know." - Ernest Hemingway

[–]AsAChemicalEngineer 1 point2 points ago

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Who went on to commit suicide... :(

[–]eriotak[S] 1 point2 points ago

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Shame :(

[–]BlazeOrangeDeer 2 points3 points ago

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I think that's a myth, or at least there isn't a correlation between sadness in general and intelligence, idk about depression. Got a source?

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]mulimulix 2 points3 points ago

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Don't know why people would downvote you. /r/atheism is becoming one big repost and it saddens me.

[–]scarydinosaur -1 points0 points ago

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It doesn't show the people who don't go on lines.

[–]Acheron13 -2 points-1 points ago

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Oh man, if THIS doesn't change people's minds, I don't know what will!

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