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[–]pablothe 23 points24 points ago

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I died with: PRAISE RICHARD DAWKINS!

[–]reddit_user13 5 points6 points ago

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I liked the subtlety of the last frame.

[–]FatTristan 1 point2 points ago

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Dawkins AkBar!

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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So did I.

[–]the_penultimate_user 1 point2 points ago

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Too soon

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Did you take your iphone to hell ?

[–]the_penultimate_user 0 points1 point ago

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No my android.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Oh praise the Lord for saving your geeky soul from Apple fanboyism, the worste religion ever (troll inside)

[–]the_penultimate_user 0 points1 point ago

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Your a strange person.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I was just kidding. Also, you're right, I am a strange person :)

[–]Dave_Davidson_ 5 points6 points ago

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This is a webcomic, right? Anyone have a link to the website?

[–]TheLankiestNinja[S] 6 points7 points ago

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http://mattbors.com/archives/321.html

That is this specific comic. Enjoy!

[–]Dokterrock -1 points0 points ago

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Came here looking for this. In case you're not the author, it's always best to post to the source when possible.

[–]fistofjohnwayne 3 points4 points ago

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[–]RhythmPrince 17 points18 points ago

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This is absolutely the best thing to ever hit the internet. I would upvote 200 times if I could.

[–]TheLankiestNinja[S] 4 points5 points ago

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Why thank you good sir!

[–]SinglePurposeUser 0 points1 point ago

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I'll have to agree 100%.

[–]palparepa 0 points1 point ago

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Given the amount of times this has been reposted (and will continue to be), you'll run out of upvotes soon.
BTW: sauce.

[–]Sunblade 2 points3 points ago

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This is SO going in my (graded 40% of the module) presentation of how history is used and sometimes rewritten to manipulate people

[–]Ovenhouse 8 points9 points ago

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Does anyone remember the U.S.S.R. being an atheist state, seizing religious land, killing christians, etc....

[–]elchip 2 points3 points ago

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My view is... yeah, the USSR and Communist China were/are atheist states, and they did/do terrible things. But that doesn't mean atheism necessarily caused the terrible things. Likewise, Christianity didn't necessarily cause the terrible things it's blamed for. In both cases, they were about power, and sometimes Christianity or whatever was used as an excuse.

However, peaceful Christians bear no more of the blame for the actions of violent Christians than peaceful atheists bear blame for the actions of violent atheists. It's a silly argument.

The only valid argument that can be obtained from all this is that "Christianity is supposed to be about loving your neighbor, etc., but a lot of people don't follow that, so that makes them bad people and hypocrites." Well, there are atheists who don't treat other people with respect, etc., and that makes them bad people, too. But if you're already a bad person, does throwing the label of "hypocrite" on top of it all make that big of a difference?

[–]Xcaliber_2276 5 points6 points ago

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Stalinism comes from the same dark place in the human psyche as religion. Blind adherence to dogma and belief in the cult of personality, among other things. Also, reference this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRhczvtmbWE

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]secondarmor 8 points9 points ago*

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Same with every one of those acts.

Crusades: Fear of the military power and expansion of the Muslim Caliphate. Putting it this way it sounds like a legitimate concern. The Muslims were in fact really good at fighting and conquering.

Persecution of Heretics: The Church was the focal point of people's trust. Renegade clergy could easily use their position of authority and respect to organize people into violent movements. Fra Dolcino, Martin Luther, and others.

Spanish Inquisition: The Church (with huge support from secular government; in fact, the Inquisition began as the Spanish Monarch's idea) felt that society was getting destabilized by the presence of Jews, Protestants, and non-Christians. Homogenous societies are in fact more stable than multi-cultured ones.

Confederates in the Civil War: They saw the North's opposition to slave trade as rivalistic ploy to destroy the Southern economy. They believed that without slavery their economy would be poorer (and this was true). They were fighting for their economy, livelihoods, and pride, not for Protestantism.

9/11: The hijackers and terrorists have specific political aims. Islam does not imply terrorism.

reminder It isn't that they acted justly, not at all, but in each instance the actions were done for the sake of some or other practical concern.

[–]obliviious 2 points3 points ago*

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People don't tend to rally behind lack of belief as a reason to start a war. But they sure as hell do for having one.

Religion is often used as an excuse, but I've always thought it was often to get support.

[–]Le7 1 point2 points ago

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The Spanish monarchy was, by no means, secular. It was a divine right monarchy like all governments of Europe were back then. It wasn't done with the goal of preserving the state, just religious stupidity.

The Confederacy started as you described it, but then the planters convinced the people that they were fighting a holy war against the secular north. Notice how the flag changed from the secular stars and bars to the religious cross of st andrew.

The 9/11 hijackers were Islamists. Their political ideology was no different than their religious one so you can't differentiate the two.

[–]styxwade 1 point2 points ago

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Spanish Inquisition: The Church (with huge support from secular government; in fact, the Inquisition began as the Spanish Monarch's idea) felt that society was getting destabilized by the presence of Jews, Protestants, and non-Christians.

The Spanish Inquisition had almost nothing to do with protestants. Even after the Reformation, which barely affected Spain, the focus was on Conversos and Moriscos (forced converts from Judaism and Islam, respectively), who were suspected of disloyalty and insincerity in their new professed belief. The closest thing to Protestants in Spain were the Alumbrados, an esoteric, mystic, but recognizably Catholic sect. They were suppressed by the Inquisiton, but not persecuted to the same extent as the former two groups. After 1495ish there were officially no non-Christians in Spain, and the Inquisition certainly didn't concern itself with atheism, which wasn't really understood to exist.

[–]orlin002 0 points1 point ago

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I think you mean to say selfish concern.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]secondarmor 2 points3 points ago*

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These aren't my beliefs. These are the justification by their adherents today, ie, present-day deep Southerners for the Civil War, Muslims discussing 9/11, the Roman Catholic Church for the rest.

And it cannot be argued that they were done in the name of their God rather than the reasons I described. Many Catholic texts written in Latin from the 1500s discuss Fra Dolcino and Martin Luther as being "evil" because or as evidenced by the violence they cause (which is how we speak of people too).

With religious empires on both sides of the Crusades, hostile to one another's culture, the wars are simply a case of military preemptive attack.

If you read the texts of any religious culture, you find that "God" is inevitably cited whenever people speak against injustice or speak about the encouragement/enforcement of values (many of which we would agree to be good values). The word "God" is their summation of all which they believe is good. I think that to say fighting can be for "God" to the exclusion of legitimate concerns is an abuse of language.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]NotFreeAdvice 2 points3 points ago

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bad things happen in the name of religion.

bad things happen when religion is not claimed as a reason

Good things happen in the name of religion

good things happen when religion is not claimed as a motivating factor.

The point here is that people will always do good. People will always do bad. And they will look for reasons to justify their actions. Religion is not a necessary condition for good or evil. Getting rid of religion will not end evil -- it will simply change the justification some people give for the perpetration of evil.

secondarmor is correct in his analysis. most things have multiple motivating factors. It is unclear that, without religion, the Crusades or 9/11 would never have happened.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]NotFreeAdvice 2 points3 points ago

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First, these were not necessarily premises, merely observations

Second, there are four statements (so I guess you fail at counting?)

Third, all I am doing is pointing out that motives are cloudy, at best.

Here is the point. Religion is a source of both good and evil. This was the point of the four statements above. If you cannot accept this, then there is no hope for your understanding my position. However, from an evolutionary perspective, this is almost certainly true (Dennett has written much about this). I think the thing to fear is not religion, per se, but those that think that religion is entirely good. Those are dangerous people.

By the same logic, those that think religion is entirely evil are dangerous people as well. Though this is a position I am still thinking through.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]ZomBStrawberry 1 point2 points ago

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Looking are your user name i would think you would of agreed with the statement.

[–]hellomoto771 1 point2 points ago

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I dunno, it sounds kind of like you're ripping on this guy in lieu of giving any substance to your rebuttal. As in, he's going to the effort of providing facts and characterizations to his thesis, while more than 80% of your response is filler and insults.

Atheism is perhaps not just about refuting the validity of theistic religions, but doing so in a manner that is unlike the theistic religions themselves.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]hellomoto771 0 points1 point ago

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I did not post purely in rhetoric, I posted purely in critical analysis (albeit from a subjective interpretation of the situation).

You're right about me being a sock puppet: there is only one person in the world who is capable of critical analysis, and I'm him. See you around!

[–]ChalgakillerBG 0 points1 point ago

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According to the old USSR "Relgion is an opium for the country" and they forbid celebrating Christmas/Easter, but they didn't kill Chirstians, they killed people that were talking against the politics.

[–]Dynamaxion 7 points8 points ago*

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I'm reading Nietzsche right now, and would really appreciate a cuddle-buddy.

Oh, and don't forget that the Christians didn't burn down the library of Alexandria, destroying most of the knowledge of the Western world and setting society back centuries. Although the Pope would probably say it was progress since it bolstered widespread ignorance a.k.a. faith in dogmatism

[–]Super_King_ 7 points8 points ago

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Caesar burned down the library of Alexandria. Not sure what you are getting at.

[–]I_CATS 3 points4 points ago*

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And Caesar was a follower of Epicureanism, a kind of proto-atheist.

EDIT: As someone already found it necessary to throw some downvotes, here is tl;dr on pople who are too lazy to look into things themselves. The basis of epicureanism was in atomic materialism, and the followers of that philosophy opposed superstition and idea of divine intervention of any sort. Caesar himself recordedly opposed the idea of afterlife, believing that this life is all you get, and selfidentified as epicureanist. While epicureanism did not directly say the gods did not exist, it was based on idea that gods (if they existed) did not have any hand and intervention with the material world, or that they gave a crap about prayers, rituals and sacrifices.

[–]g_a_b_e_2_0_1_1 0 points1 point ago

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So basically he was a sort of deist then, kinda like the American "revolutionaries". Interesting.

[–]TheAntiZealot 0 points1 point ago

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Which Caesar? there's like 30.

btw, i had just ctrl+c'd "Epicureanism and then noticed your "EDIT," now i will never ctrl+v!

[–]alexanderwales 0 points1 point ago

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That would be Gaius Julius Caesar, and it was sort of an accident. Of course, there was also a different instance of destruction when Pope Theophilus of Alexandria outlawed paganism and destroyed a temple that (probably) held part of the Library of Alexandria. That you can directly attribute to religion. Those historians are pretty fucking bad at keeping records of what was there though.

[–]cockwaffle 0 points1 point ago

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Shh.... you're getting in the way of the part where r/atheism thinks it has a bead on the entire narrative of world history just because they realized religion is bullshit.

[–]DraugrMurderboss 0 points1 point ago

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I usually don't care much for r/atheism posts but the praise Richard Dawkins line got me.

[–]pedopopeonarope 0 points1 point ago

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I approve this message.

[–]DaPurpleCobra 0 points1 point ago

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As much as I agree with this..... this has been r/atheism at least 10 times

[–]fritzbunwalla 2 points3 points ago

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Only 10? I don't mind reposts generally, but this is posted at least every fortnight. Still, obviously enough people haven't seen it before so who are we to complain.

[–]Bernardo-OHiggins 0 points1 point ago

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Don't forget to credit the creator of this comic. www.mattbors.com

[–]gabriot 0 points1 point ago

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that was so meta

[–]Shivalli 0 points1 point ago

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[–]vikram13 0 points1 point ago

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I think you mean "World History with the Chancellor from Star Wars"

[–]Bohzee 0 points1 point ago

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hihihihi^ good caricature^

[–]moxycalt 0 points1 point ago

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REALLY BIG LOL !!!

[–]All_Things_Classic 0 points1 point ago

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I think this claim isn't so much about "Look at all the wars atheism caused!" but more to show that you don't fucking need religion to kill each other and you have no way of knowing that this shit wouldn't have happened without religion.

[–]Cantbelievethat 0 points1 point ago

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Matt Bors is hilarious, and he actually appreciates it when you tell him so!

[–]Graywolves 0 points1 point ago

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The crusades was about controlling the middle east (the center of trading at the time). The civil war was about bringing the confederacy back into the union (freeing slaves and allowing them to fight for the union was a strategic decision.) Middle East issues today continue to be about territory, as we put a state there without concideration of the indigenous population. Attacking the economic center of that nation's biggest supporter makes sense.

And the priests are just pedophiles.

There was once a story of a man that wanted to be a priest and the Priest said. "Do you like women?" he said no, in which he replied "come back when you do." because being a priest is supposed to sacrifice those temptations or something.

[–]radrage 0 points1 point ago

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Am I going to hell for laughing at this? ...oh wait

[–]Ragnalypse 0 points1 point ago

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Awesome, but the civil war wasn't over slavery or very religiously charged.

[–]TheLankiestNinja[S] 6 points7 points ago

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Yes, but slavery was justified not only using the Bible but also because the slave holders felt that they were helping the slaves by bringing Christianity to them. I agree, but the slaveholder's mentality was fueled by Christianity.

[–]odd-logic 3 points4 points ago

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Not only fueled, but supported by true Christianity (as opposed to the commercialized version we have in the world today.) The bible many times explicitly says slavery is okay.

[–]lucubration007 -1 points0 points ago

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True Christianity would have burned the Bible.

[–]Super_King_ 1 point2 points ago

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No, not at all.

Religion was an excuse, their actions were fueled by economics, and these economics built their entire social system. After the rise of the abolition movement, reliance on the bible stagnated and instead switched to the theory that blacks were a different thing altogether, essentially that they had evolved from a different creature than white people. Thomas Jefferson mentions this theory as early as 1781 in his "Notes on Virginia".

The use of bible as justification, while around was not used as much because the abolitionists in the north were using the same bible to condemn slavery, so the slaveholders had to find other means to justify the enslavement of Africans.

I can recommend a number of books regarding this subject if you are interested.

[–]RhythmPrince 0 points1 point ago

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I think he means that even though economics was the true reason for the civil war, people used Christianity and the bible to help justify how "god" was the reason black people were slaves.

[–]markjaquith 8 points9 points ago

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Proctor: All right, here's your last question. What was the cause of the Civil War?
Apu: Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists, there were economic factors, both domestic and inter—
Proctor: Wait, wait... just say slavery.

— The Simpsons, Much Apu About Nothing

[–]taktubu 0 points1 point ago

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It was, actually, about slavery.

[–]UnknownArchive -1 points0 points ago

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Anyone seeking more info might also check here:

source: karmadecay

[–]poltsi -1 points0 points ago*

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Crusades were pretty useful for Europe. We learned the windmill and wheelbarrow technology from saracens. (And found out about the silkroad, which eventually led Europeans to discover and to establish trade routes with foreign lands like India.)

Afterall we had lots of loitering nobleman because unforgiving feudal structure which allowed only few children out of ten to actually govern lands they inheritted from their fathers, which meaned there were lots of knights wandering around Europe looking for adventures. So, the crusades gave change for loitering knights to plunder stuff and get rich, it was also speeding up the fall of Byzanthine empire. Still after that I think It was actually pretty good that the crusaders had their silly campaigns.

About the rest of the comic, I have no idea.

[–]Kaviel -2 points-1 points ago

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Hey guys, let's make a group that follows some kinds of dogma and wide spread beliefs, in order to combat a group that is run by dogma and is based on wide spread beliefs. /facepalm