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How I feel arguing with Christians sometimes (imgur.com)
submitted 10 months ago by CatholicCommunist
[–]roule13 18 points19 points20 points 10 months ago
Got to love T-Paine
[–]InaccurateStatistics 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Word. Someone should buy the T-Paine microphone and recite this with it.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 months ago
I debated a creationist once through a lengthy series of debates. I work in an evolutionary biology lab, so I was bringing up arguments from things that I was seeing in my lab. He ignored them and went straight back to answers in genesis talking points. Gave up on it.
[–]LouIchthys -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 months ago
Sounds like you listened to his argument as much as he listened to yours.
[–]djbon2112 11 points12 points13 points 10 months ago
"The bible says so" is not an argument. It's a cop-out to thinking.
[–]LouIchthys -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 months ago
You didn't even give him the chance to say "the Bible says so". There are many things in the Bible that you would agree with. Ignoring them because your mother made you go to church when you were 13 doesn't make you brilliant.
[–]djbon2112 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
"There are many things in the Bible that you would agree with"
No, not really. Most of it is obviously the writings of a primitive desert tribe, and a brutal one at that. And my family never made me go to church. I was never a theist, though I did go to Catholic school.
"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself."
What part of that do you disagree with?
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
"Do not murder".
[–]djbon2112 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago*
The fact that every one of those things is inherrant to human nature (As a whole) due to evolutionary advantage. I don't need a book written by stone-age savages to tell me them, [edit] especially one filled to the brim with other things which are obviously wrong.
[–]LouIchthys -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
Want to run that by me again? You disagree because murder "is inherrant [sic] to human nature (As a whole) due to evolutionary advantage"? What could that possibly mean?
[–]HoppyMcScragg 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
And which of those would be useful in a creationism vs evolution debate?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The Bible is a very large book. There are some verses in it that most non-Christians would agree with (condemning murder, for example.) But the fact that these are good ideas is irrelevant to the fact that they're found in the Bible.
The Bible also has some very vile ideas in it. A God that orders his people to commit genocide, and putting people to death for sexual indiscretions. A book that has these ideas in it should not be considered an authority on anything.
[–]LouIchthys -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
There are many things in the Bible that you would agree with No, not really. "Do not murder" Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
There are many things in the Bible that you would agree with
No, not really. "Do not murder" Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
No, not really.
"Do not murder" Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
"Do not murder"
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Ugh.
[–]HoppyMcScragg 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
I see you're fairly new to Reddit. You do realize you're quoting two different people there, in addition to yourself, right?
I will readily admit that there are some verses of the Bible that seem agreeable. There are also some that seem pretty horrible.
[–]Smallpaul 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
JESUS ON PEACE - Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
JESUS ON PEACE - Matthew 26:52 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto him, "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
JESUS ON PEACE - Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Matthew 8:21-22 And another of his disciples said unto him, "Suffer me first to go and bury my father." But Jesus said unto him, "Follow me and let the dead bury their dead."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Matthew 10:35-37 "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law — a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Matthew 12:46-50 While he yet talked to the people, behold his mother and brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, "Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with you." But he answered and said, "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand towards his disciples, and said, "Behold, my mother and my brethren! For whoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Matthew 19:29 (NIV) "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Mark 3:33-35 "Who are my mother and my brothers?" [Jesus] asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Luke 9:60 "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Luke 9:61,62 Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good bye to my family." Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES AND PEACE - Luke 12:49-53 "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - John 2:4 Jesus saith unto [his mother], "Woman, what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not yet come."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - John 12:25 "The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."
JESUS ON FAMILY VALUES - John 15:6 (KJV) "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
JOHN ON FAMILY VALUES - 2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
What relevance do your out-of-context talking points have on his claim that there is nothing in the Bible he agrees with? If he agrees with "Do not murder" then he agrees with some things in the Bible.
You aren't discussing what we are discussing. You rehashing the default r/atheism "Christians bad; Atheists good" caveman argument.
If he agrees with "Do not murder" then he agrees with some things in the Bible.
And what is the relevance of that?
I'm sure he also agrees with some things in Mein Kampf. For example, I spent two minutes skimming to find this: "Political parties are inclined to compromises."
Yep, I agree with that. So what insight does that provide about Mein Kampf and whether I should read it or not?
He said there are not things in the Bible he agrees with. I was pointing out that there are.
[–]NoahFect 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago
Why listen to a flat-earther?
[–]LouIchthys -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 months ago
You can prove the Earth isn't flat. You can't prove Man evolved from another species.
[–]NoahFect 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
So all of a sudden we're all about "proof," huh. Where does all that skepticism go on Sunday morning?
[–]mleeeeeee 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Aren't they both on an equal footing? Neither one is obviously true, neither can be proved with absolute mathematical certainty, but both have been established beyond any reasonable doubt by lots of careful scientific work.
I can look at a picture of the Earth and see that it is round. There is no video on Youtube of another species giving birth to a human being.
The notion that Man evolved from another species is based on complex fossil and DNA evidence from all over the world. It assumes that our dating technology is accurate (and this assumption alone relies on thousands of other assumptions about the state of the environment millions of years ago).
Taking evidence from hundreds of generations before you were born and devising a theory about what it all might mean is not "on the same footing" as looking at a picture of the Earth and seeing that it is round.
[–]Ashdown 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I dunno of you're trolling or not- if you are you either need a medal or a psych ward.
If you're not trolling, however, i have trouble believing you manage to breathe and type at the same time
[–]mleeeeeee 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
But we didn't have any such pictures until a few decades ago. So what would you say our epistemic position was in 1930? Did we not know that the earth was round?
[–]BackSuplex -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 months ago
Christians haven't renounced reason shitbird. 40% of Scientists are religious. Please know what the fuck you're talking about before you speak.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Good troll, just tone down the cursing, it makes it a bit too obvious.
[–]thepopdog 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Christians haven't necessarily abandoned reason, but they do hold it as being inferior to the gospel, or that which they feel to be true.
Many otherwise reasonable people are christian, but consider the bible to be the source of all truth and thus superior to logic
[–]CaptainKirk1701 -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 months ago
we shall talk some day as I am a theist who believes in evolution hey were in the Bible does it say God made the world in seven Consecutive days?
[–]LoboSolitario 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago*
Where in the Bible say it's NOT?
[–]CaptainKirk1701 -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
please speak English.
[–][deleted] 10 months ago
[deleted]
English Motherfucker do you speak it?
[–]KeyboardHero 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
While you're going to receive massive downvotes for such a silly statement, you made me realize something I hadn't quite acknowledged before.
I never took time to realize how often in Christian literature, song and conversation that people emphasize YHWH making 'the whole world' ("He's got the whole world, in his hands, he's got the..."). Let's be conservative and assume that 100 billion galaxies exist in our universe. From there, let's be even more ridiculous and assume that each universe only contains 100 planets. Earth is but one of those planets, yet Christians marvel at the time YHWH spent on 0.0000000000001% of the planets in our universe just because we happen to live on it?
That's probably my largest gripe with the Genesis account: that our planet took up five days of creation, yet the rest of the universe only required one and is encapsulated with the line, "So God made the vault and...called the vault 'sky'." Right from the start of "YHWH's divine word" do we get a huge indicator that this book was written by man with no sort of divine intervention. The reason why the universe isn't marveled at or taken into account during creation week was because that knowledge was not yet available to mankind.
It constantly amazes me that it took 21 years of living before I could see past the indoctrination of my childhood.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
How very Thomas Painey of him.
[–]BuckyDuster 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
Why argue? Live and let live.
That would require the other side to do the same and not push their beliefs on us
[–]RachnusRageous 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Because that's what all theists do.
[–]amakeshifttheory 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
What a broad generalization. Assumptions set aside, it is important to understand that is it not practical to have a rational discussion when it comes to aspects of religion, based on faith. If matters of religion and faith was so simple, then philosophers such as Plato, Thomas Aquinas, and Immanuel Kant just to name of few would have had a much easier time wrestling with it. I am a Christian and I choose to share my faith when I feel the time comes, however I do not force it upon people. In fact, I would go so far as to say I don't think it should be forced on anyone.
same here. I was being sarcastic.
[–]amakeshifttheory 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Hard to exhibit tone in r/atheism ;) My apologies.
same can be said for all sarcasm on the internet. It's cool.
[–]BuckyDuster 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Agreed
[–]ReoinMahBoat 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Sometimes people are so stubbornly religious that attempting to talk sense to them is like trying to wake someone who is stubbornly dead, but there is always the possibility that one day they will ask themselves how much longer they can keep up this charade.
I think the problem is that most of the time they don't want to stop believing because they're afraid of "real life" and hard truths.
[–]CatholicCommunist[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
logic isn't easy or convenient. It's hard to fit into soundbites. thats why most americans don't use it
[–]pineapplol 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Arguing with a creationist about evolution is like arguing with a blind man about what is blue.
[–]FatTristan 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago
Just wondering, OP. Were you Catholic when you joined reddit, but later deconverted to atheism? (From your name)
[–]CatholicCommunist[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Well you see I'm a communist and we believe in spreading communism to the whole world. The Catholic Church believes the same about they're religion, Catholic comes from a Greek word meaning universal. Therefore, I'm a universal communist.
I was raised Catholic, but I don't really believe in God, I just believe in Catholic social teaching and such.
[–]Beatneat -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
"I'm a communist"
Hahahaha, you just lost all credibility right there bud.
[–]CatholicCommunist[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago
Because I have political views you disagree with? Why, there's been a lot of pretty smart ones: Jesus(regardless of whether you believe in his divinity he's got some good ideas), Sean MacBride(Nobel Peace Prize winner), Oscar Romero, Dom Helder Camara, Most Native Americans, Ho Chi Minh, etc
[–]colebluefearn 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
My only major issue with Communism is that it's the death of the individual.
[–]NotaPoet -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 months ago
Communism is a broken ideal. have fun downvoting me, reddit.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
Why do you care so much about downvotes?
[–]NotaPoet -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
groupthink is fun.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Thanks for not answering the question. Words are fun!
[–]NotaPoet 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Because there's a distinct dichotomy that exists on reddit, and there's sub-divisions of that dichotomy, but a distinct expression of one of those sides is the need to downvote anyone who says something about what you agree with.
It doesn't involve engaging though, it doesn't involve critical thinking, it involves a knee-jerk reaction to something you have allowed yourself to be trained into believing as automatically negative, thus automatically downvoting.
Maybe they just disagree with you. That's why most people downvote.
By the way, I have no idea what you were trying to say. You'd be a good poet.
[–]Nithoren 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago
You argue with them? I just let them think what they think and leave them on their merry way.
[–]CatholicCommunist[S] 13 points14 points15 points 10 months ago
This quote also works with republicans.
[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 10 months ago
This quote also works with anyone that puts their faith in their political party
FTFY
[–]CharlesAnonymousVII 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago
This quote also works by itself.
this is true
[–]krom0025 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago
Came here to post just that...upvote foe you
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Unfortunately Catholic Communist reasoning wasn't written into the Constitution.
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 months ago
Christians AND Republicans? You are so enlightened I almost forgot to realize you're a bigot. Painting with a brush that broad makes your brain as worthless as the subjects of the Paine quote.
I said sometimes, so I'm not generalizing. How does this make me a bigot? For disagreeing with them?
[–]CatholicCommunist[S] 8 points9 points10 points 10 months ago
regardless, its a good point
[–]Kaidaan 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
someone lost to the dark side is not always lost completely.
[–]TheLaw655 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
This is how I feel when arguing with athiests......
What reason(s) do you feel are being ignored by those you argue with?
[–]finest_jellybean 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
you guys do know that Thomas Paine believed in God right?
[–]hosolon 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Hey umm OP, you do not seem to know what you are
"As a Christian"
"As a Catholic"
"Also I'm agnostic"
you seen a bit confused.
I don't see where communist contradicts any of those. I'm agnostic, I used to be Christian.
[–]hosolon 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
All with in the last month, you have been busy.
beliefs change, how is that so hard to believe?
[–]cattofbills -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago
Fuckin BUSTED! Get the fuck out, faker.
I don't see how.
[–]stfnotguilty 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Sure doesn't stop you from trying, though.
[–]zachbredberg 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
How I feel arguing with atheists sometimes.
[–]hanahou 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Funny how it comes from a man whose friends found him unreasonable. He had only 6 people show up for his funeral. Never married and had no kids. Lived long for his time, did some good, and a lot of harm. His philosophy on life is taken with a large grain of salt by this posting Atheist.
[–]Syrio88 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Nobody is asking you guys to argue with anyone.
[–]CaptainKirk1701 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
I really just wanted it out there that we are not all idiots who tolerate none I have Jewish Muslim and atheist friends and I love science I in fact have two patients in alternate fuel so please don't judge us all on a few nuts let us laugh at them together!
[–]colebluefearn 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago
Fuck Ayn Rand.
[–]Turdferguson86 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
Thank you for using "sometimes" in that title. Now please modify it further by adding "some Christians", since not all of us drive a wedge between faith and reason.
By sometimes I meant some Christians. I'm not trying to say that all christians are ignorant, just some.
[–]CharlesAnonymousVII 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago
So, in summary: you're reminded of this quote when you argue with irrational people. Oh, and some people who are Christian also happen to be irrational. Now, would it be fair to say you also feel the same when arguing with idiots who happen to be atheists?
Yes, some atheists are just as ignorant as some Christians. But for the most part it's the religious because they have an easy absolute cop out. You prove them wrong and they say, "Well God/the Bible/ says you're wrong and that's that."
[–]CharlesAnonymousVII 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago*
Those who are proved wrong, whether theist or atheist, generally don't do a lot of reaching when seeking a cop out. "The Bible says you're wrong" works just as well as "Whatever; everyone knows that's not true". If the topic is one in which there's a lot at stake, the likelihood of hearing "Yeah, you're right" is obviously going to be small. I've never heard that, after proving an atheist wrong, either. I wouldn't assert that an atheist's atheism per se renders him irrational though.
[–]theninth 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Or casting pearls before swine, if you will.
[–]mycroft2000 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
He looks like Harry Shearer.
[–]Metsa 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
You should feel like this all the time. Stop arguing with Christians.
[–]L4UGH 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Boy, you told 'em.
[–]Truart2310 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Or as Doug Stanhope said "It's like trying to kick water uphill. You ain't gonna win".
You sound like a smug asshole.
[–]Iam_Jeff_Click 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Wasn't Thomas Paine a deist? Isn't posting this in /r/atheism kind of counterproductive..?
I realize this, it still doesn't take away from the intelligence of the quote.
[–]dispeptic_pony 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
When I first glanced at that paragraph, I would have sworn I saw the word "dickhead" somewhere in the copy. I have nothing more to contribute at this time.
[–]EverRolling 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficia appearance of being right." This is my other favorite quote by him. If people back then could see the truth why cant more people see it now with all the evidence we have.
[–]sirmichaelhunt 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
T-PAIN!
[–]kelsen89 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Dude this is how I feel when talking to Atheists, I don't argue there's no point in wasting my time.
"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid." - Carl Sagan
[–]goonsack 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
"You should never argue with a crazy man man man man man man; you ought to know by now"
-Billy Joel
[–]Crownowa 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Sometimes I like to beat a dead horse though ;D
[–]mountaingirlclay 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago
Full context and unedited version of this quote found here
“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
[–]Enlightenment777 -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago
Arguing with religious people is like arguing with patients at a mental hospital !!!
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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